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F1 Racing (magazine) and F1 media in general...(merged)


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#251 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:08

Im just offended someone would put Hamilton and Obama in the same bracket.

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#252 bradleyl

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:46

Interesting comments about the Credit Crunch article; it was far from a cut-and-paste job, or a last-minute rush, as the content was sourced specifically for the piece and won't have been seen anywhere else; equally, the illustration was commissioned for this too. Ironically, this is also the most considered and serious article of the magazine, and a little bit of a departure from what we've done so far since the 'regime change' a year ago, so it's interesting to hear that it perhaps didn't go down as well as we might have expected with some of the more 'hardcore' readers.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, it's appreciated. Keep it coming! And remember you can also contact us directly at letters.f1racing@haymarket.com if you want to pursue anything at greater length.

#253 Ayrton-No.1

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 14:33

Originally posted by bradleyl
Interesting comments about the Credit Crunch article; it was far from a cut-and-paste job, or a last-minute rush, as the content was sourced specifically for the piece and won't have been seen anywhere else; equally, the illustration was commissioned for this too. Ironically, this is also the most considered and serious article of the magazine, and a little bit of a departure from what we've done so far since the 'regime change' a year ago, so it's interesting to hear that it perhaps didn't go down as well as we might have expected with some of the more 'hardcore' readers.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, it's appreciated. Keep it coming! And remember you can also contact us directly at letters.f1racing@haymarket.com if you want to pursue anything at greater length.


Bradley, I come from slovakia, where it's been at times (1998,1999) extremely hard to obtain F1R, but since I loved it so much, always found the way how to get a copy.
I still haven't missed an issue since 11/1997, but would love to see some improvements to overall quality of the mag, otherwise I fear the streak will come to an end...
You claim you're open to suggestions and opinions of the readers, so here's some;
I dearly miss 'F1 to One' as well as 'The long interview'. I don't know who made the decision to cut this, but it definitely in my view wasn't a good decision :confused:
On the other hand I like your 'educational' pieces, such as the 'behind the scenes with F1 stewards', or 'who's who on the F1 grid' and that sort of thing. I mean, it's good to bring F1 closer to the fan, especially since F1 these days is so guarded and unaccessible...
that in short is it. there's been quite a lot of posts previously which I also agree with, for instance the ones from dank, so I guess you guys have an idea of what issues to tackle ;)

#254 Risil

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 14:37

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Im just offended someone would put Hamilton and Obama in the same bracket.


Yeah, Obama's record in Formula 3 just doesn't compare.

#255 Snap Matt

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 14:44

Personally it was just the style of the writing that bugged me about that piece. It seemed to be aimed at people who don't really follow the sport, hence my harsh insinuation that it looked like it was shared with a newspaper. The content was okay and I always like to see articles on the business aspects of F1. It was a great idea, really topical and important, but the tone left me cold.

The new regime hasn't really done it for me until the current issue. I hope it's as a result of the work that has been put in and not just because I've got winter F1 withdrawal symptoms!

#256 Owen

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 14:56

Originally posted by Risil


Yeah, Obama's record in Formula 3 just doesn't compare.


:lol:

#257 Ayrton-No.1

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 14:57

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Stuart's a good guy and does what he does well, he just wasn't in the right place at the right time. It could have just as easily been someone from MN, or Autosport, or Autosport.com that had to go.


I don't understand the reasoning behind this decision. So you just chose a person by random, unfortunately 'the chosen' happened to be one of the best writers in F1R history, and you just let him go??? :confused: that's how you solve the problems over at haymarket?
on one hand this thread is trying to solve a problem of how to make a 'new look' F1Racing better, but on the other hand the people in power let the best guy go...that's totally against logic. for god's sake, aren't you in this business to sell as many magazines as possible? How are you going to guarantee yourself this will happen? by offering people a high quality product, right? and how you're gonna achieve this? by employing the best people, right? wrong, apparently...
I really liked Stuart, I even thought he will take over the editor position after Bishop had left...suddenly, he's fired because they're trying to save some costs...please, can somebody explain to me how this move will improve the quality of the mag???
:

#258 bradleyl

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 15:11

To borrow a phrase, Ayrton, I don't think this is an appropriate forum for discussing redundancies etc... and am not planning to get into that discussion. Suffice to say, Codders will continue to be part of the magazine from time to time, and that you need have no worries as to the content and direction of F1 Racing. Yes, I would say that because I'm on the staff, but we're feeling very positive about how the magazine is going - and to hear the positive feedback about the recent issue is heartening, as it's anecdotal evidence that we're hitting our stride with the tone and content.

As for those of you who lament the 'Long Interview', the decision was taken about a year ago. We prefer the style of 'straight Q&A' that lets the subject do more talking, rather than attempting to infer meanings throughout, which was characteristic of the style. As you'll have seen, the journalists have been very much more 'background' than 'foreground' over the last year, and that's a very deliberate choice. The major interviews still run to over 2000 words, which is a substantial amount of copy.

#259 Rob

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 15:15

For the 70th anniversary of the end of the European Championship, as a prelude to F1 it would make quite a nice feature.

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#260 klover

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 20:05

Originally posted by jesee


.....................
Hamilton may be called 2008 world champion officially, but he knows who the true champion is as does everyone this year, and his name is Felipe Massa.

.................


You sound very bitter. Are you friends with Limbaugh and Hannity?

#261 postajegenye

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 20:17

I really miss the long interview, that was my favourite part.

However, I think the magazine has been improving recently, lots of good articles, keep up the good work! :up:

#262 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 06:28

1) I'm glad they decided to put the camera settings back on the pictures in the gallery section;

2) They should make every page a full-bleed image with type over the top of it - the visual is the attention getter, as well as what captures the mystique. THEN give me something to read....

3) Interviews are the content I prefer to have to read *not on the computer* - news will always be instant here on the Net. More interviews; I'm an F1 geek, I'll read an interview with the guy that runs the tire warmer system and love it;

4) It needs to be about 1/3rd the cost here in the U.S., at least for a subscription! (I can only afford to buy it on the news stand occasionally)

#263 pikamoku

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:35

here in Spain has recently changed the distribuitor-editor of F1R, so reading your comments I feel quiet :stoned: :drunk: because we have to get used to new colaborators, sections, paper (worse), ... and no Peter Windsor :drunk: (almost in january)

#264 bradleyl

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:50

Once again everybody, thanks for the feedback, both positive and critical. As an editorial person, there's not much I can do about cover prices, but the content is something I am involved in - and your comments will all be discussed and taken onboard.

The point many have made about not trying to chase news stories is absolutely valid - and reflected, I think, in our approach. We're only too aware of what strengths the web has relative to monthly print publishing.

Keep the comments coming when you feel the need, they're appreciated. Cheers.

#265 Vitesse2

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:47

Originally posted by Rob
For the 70th anniversary of the end of the European Championship, as a prelude to F1 it would make quite a nice feature.

True. But there are still plenty of questions about 1935 and 1939....;)

#266 Rob

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:25

Originally posted by Vitesse2

True. But there are still plenty of questions about 1935 and 1939....;)


Maybe we need a campaign for the FIA to release their archives :)

#267 potmotr

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:13

I didn't mind the piece on Quick Nick in the last issue, good to see he's getting a mention.

Shame he wasn't on the cover. I think he must be one of the only front runners never to have had an F1 Racing cover.

#268 Ayrton-No.1

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 15:56

Originally posted by potmotr
I didn't mind the piece on Quick Nick in the last issue, good to see he's getting a mention.

Shame he wasn't on the cover. I think he must be one of the only front runners never to have had an F1 Racing cover.


Jarno Trulli is the other one :mad:

I am very dissapointed that even after all Jarno (and Nick for that matter) have achieved in F1, people in F1R have never bothered to put them on the cover, at least once... :down:
you had 150 opportunities to do so (at least in Jarno's case, since his F1 career began in March 1997, F1R has issued around 150 issues since then), but never did...
hopefully this is something you are going to reconsider, too, Bradley :)

#269 bradleyl

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:00

Guys, without being condescending, I think you've got to try and understand the requirements for a cover star of the magazine rather than just assuming every F1 driver is worthy material. Some guys sell well, some guys don't - and the role of the cover, on the newsstand, is to attract readers to the magazine. I'm afraid that as shown by the results of the recent global survey, levels of recognition for both Heidfeld and Jarno (much as I love him) are practically zero - and they would bomb as cover stars. There's no obligation to feature the entire field on the cover, and I think it's fair to say these guys are not going to be starring on it any time soon...

#270 bradleyl

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:06

PS: Just to play devil's advocate... "after all Jarno (and Nick for that matter) have achieved in F1"... That would be, erm, one win in a total of about 350 races. Hardly earth-shattering, is it? (Yes, I know Jenson's record is similar, but he's been on more because he's British... and that has its own, though far-from-unanimous, appeal for a British audience).

#271 Rob

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:06

Originally posted by bradleyl
levels of recognition for both Heidfeld and Jarno (much as I love him) are practically zero


Because they're hardly ever featured! :)

#272 bradleyl

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:09

I'm not sure it's exclusively our coverage that raises general levels of awareness, is it?! It may have a little more to do with the fact they haven't quite hit the heights of performance of some other drivers... and that profile tends to follow results...

#273 potmotr

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:15

Originally posted by bradleyl
I'm afraid that as shown by the results of the recent global survey, levels of recognition for both Heidfeld and Jarno (much as I love him) are practically zero - and they would bomb as cover stars.


Your straight talking is appreciated Bradley!

:up:

#274 Snap Matt

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:52

Originally posted by bradleyl
I'm not sure it's exclusively our coverage that raises general levels of awareness, is it?! It may have a little more to do with the fact they haven't quite hit the heights of performance of some other drivers... and that profile tends to follow results...

Still, it must be flattering to be held in such high regard that people might think you can make or break the reputation of a driver. Maybe when hiring a new driver some team bosses count up how many front covers you've given the various candidates and choose the one with the most... or perhaps the psychological boost of being the star attraction one month would be enough for them to extract those last couple of tenths of performance. Personally, I'd stick to whoever gives the best chance of meeting the mortgage repayments going in to the future.

#275 bradleyl

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:56

Interestingly, looking back through 13 years or so of covers, they once featured Pedro Diniz... I don't think we'd get away with the equivalent now!

#276 Jackman

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 16:59

He may have bought it, of course: that was the main approach he had to his career...

#277 Snap Matt

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 17:16

I can't believe anyone can doubt the star quality of Pedro Diniz, subject of the most memorable tabloid headline in F1 history.

On that basis, though, Jarno's day may yet come.

#278 potmotr

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 17:45

Originally posted by Snap Matt
I can't believe anyone can doubt the star quality of Pedro Diniz, subject of the most memorable tabloid headline in F1 history.


'Diniz in the oven' was absolute gold.

Then, if memory serves, F1 Racing tried to rip it off with their cover which said 'Diniz Ready!'.

#279 potmotr

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 17:46

Originally posted by bradleyl
Interestingly, looking back through 13 years or so of covers, they once featured Pedro Diniz... I don't think we'd get away with the equivalent now!


Out of interest, how many since 2007 featured Lewis Hamilton?

Not having a go, just quite interested as he clearly moves Autosports and F1 Racings in significant quantities.

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#280 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 17:48

This will be over the top, and probably will make people mad. I'm about to do something crazy, but I'm wired on Redbull and I think I have someone's attention so here goes:

The Pundit's Review of F1 Racing Magazine Number 153 (November 2009) - (.. all IMO, of course)




(The last issue I've been able to afford to purchase)

Cover: you know, I don't know what it is with the magazine industry, but speaking for myself I basically NEVER read the type on the cover except for the feature headline. The pull quote is too large and adds to a cluttered, claustrophobic feeling; the "World Exclusive" is kinda redundant, more clutter; the subheading "on lewis, etc." redundant; "Title showdown" - I'm not sure what that means except for the glaringly (and redundantly) obvious); "Schumacher on 2008" - well, that's pretty much a given that it will be brought up, no? F1 racing magazine caters to a captive audience. You don't need a selling point(s) on the cover in type. The more striking the cover image the better IMO.

INSET COVER: nice Jaguar two page ad. Note the use of full-bleed imagery, that's the way to do it!

CONTENTS PAGE(S): how many people really look at these? I do occasionally, but two pages? I like _Wired_ magazines penchant for one page with smaller pulled images. I can't remember when I last actually looked at the text listing, but that's just me.

EDITOR PAGE: obligatory I know, no problem with this; prefer to read where the editor(s) are coming from.

PORSCHE ADS: love the two page Carrera shot...

PARADE SECTION: this kind of eye candy
is the one thing you can provide that you can't get from the online experience!!!!!!
Fantastic Singapore shot - why not more shots from each race??? The full-bleed layout is the only way to go for the whole magazine! It sets the backdrop, the tone of the whole thing. Otherwise, you *are* almost soley competing with online content!

Only 6 pages out of the whole magazine????

PAGE 17/SCHUMACHER INTERVIEW: this is what I expect. Lots of *long* textural content. The online "news" stuff consists of the most ludicrously brief sound bites; likewise, F1 Racing should always avoid that IMO. Great interview.

TWO PAGE HAYMARKET AD: "save up to 30%"; "insert whine here"....

PAGE 28 / PITPASS: Great shot of Algarve. Wish it was bigger. Huge fonts are annoying, distracting and unnecessary.

PAGE 29/ F1 MASTERMIND: this sort of thing reminds me of teenybopper magazines, I'm sure some guys like it - but they're usually the same kind that talk really loud at sports bars, proud of informing everyone around them that they know who was on 2nd base during the 4th inning of the 1927 World Series. Blah.

ASK F1 RACING: more interesting. Or for that matter, the "F1 Mastermind" should just be "here's some things you may or may not know". It's about content, and trying to get tricky by making the reader turn the magazine upside down or making a "game" is very 1955, and silly in the age of the Internet....

PAGE 31/PITPASS: Wish the car picture (3 seater Renault) went all the way beyond the margins, more textural information, bigger picture of the 3 seater at what apears to be Paul Ricard. "THE AMAZING RULES OF F!!" ok, fine, interesting, but maybe not crammed into the corner. Cluttered...

PAGE 32/THIS MONTH'S BIG DEBATE: Content! Good! Ian Phillips and Adam Parr, actual F1 insiders! Wish there had been more said from them to read.

PAGE 33: EPSON AD: full bleed...

PAGE 34: a bunch of clutter! Ack... I don't feel like bothering...

PAGE 37/PADDOCK SPY: nice little pictures. That could have been a feature IMO - history of the Canadian GP, when it was cancelled? Appropriate, right? No?

PAGE 37/KUBICA BOWLING: LOVED this! Inside info you wouldn't have expected, a picture of Ron Dennis bowling??? Great stuff!

PAGE 38/SIDE BAR: I'd rather read a whole article on Penske in F1. And the Pitlane Heroes - yeah, I'm a complete F1 geek, I'd read pages on what Brembo's F1 guy has to say about F1. Maybe I'm alone in that, but again it's real F1 content...

PAGE 40/LETTERS: Feh, there's already enough punter's opinion (ahem) written online, right? The Singapore shot should have been huge - wasted space on the page! It's visually about the CARS... Oddball picture of Hill playing guitar was great.

PAGE 41/SEIKO FULL BLEED AD....

PAGE 42/MURRAY WALKER: what I want, more insider F1 content. Big font wastes space that could have been overlayed to a bigger zoom of the Valencia shot. The pull quote on the next page over the Singapore picture - why a pull quote in large type, when the picture could have been the *whole page*, which would have been much more dramatic and visually grabbing?

PAGE 44/KATAYAMA INTERVIEW: what I want. I'd read multiple pages of any driver talking. Am I alone?


PAGE 46/CHAMPIONSHIP SHOWDOWN:

This is how the whole magazine should look!!!!!

Yes!

1) a nice big, full bleed juicy F1 image
2) text overlay - and the content dominates over the headline! I'm not thinking "man, look at all of that wasted space on the page".

* Can anyone else imagine an entire magazine that has that look? Page after page of full-bleed (edge-edge) pictures? *

PAGE 47/FULL BLEED BRIDGESTONE AD: great shot, love it, Bridgestone knows what's up...

PAGE 48/TRULLI: what I want. Content. Pictures are fine here. I *don't* care about huge pictures of Jarno.

PAGE 50/JACQUES: I like the content, although I'm left thinking "did they leave out some info from the interview to make room for the gigantic font headline, or the picture on the left?

*Love the "You ask the questions" format!* Again, something not seen on the Internet (that I'm aware of).

PAGE 54/WILLLIAMS TURNING/FULL BLEED: YES! Yes!

PAGE 56/HOW TO MAKE AN F1 WING: Loved this, great content, the techier the better! Great closeup shots of the layup, loved this article to death!

PAGE 62/MCLAREN FAN AT MONZA: funny picture... nice article... goes far as to capturing the "at a race" vibe, liked it.

PAGE 66/MP 4/4: *almost* full bleed shot. The "framed" shot looks old school-publishing to my eye, but I'm just a peasant. Nice article, mostly loved the pictures inside McLaren, but the Nichols comments were appreciated... Wish the "Senna's cockpit" shot had been larger. and the RA168-E engine shot.

PAGE 74/WHAT HAPPENS ON THE F1 PITWALK: more like it - *almost* full bleed. Very cluttered looking, but informative in how it's layed out. Would have looked better without the "nice" framing. Liked the content.

PAGE 76/COULTHARD: "blah blah, full bleed, how it should look"... I'm such a geek I look at the detail of the makeup of the Monza asphalt. I'd even appreciate a shot of the freaking guard rail. Liked the content/interview, Mr. Lord. Actually, re-looking over it now, it was very good; insider views of what Hakkinen was like was revealed, although I wish you could have gotten him to expand on "what Ron was like as a manager" with anecdotes.

Anecdotes in a driver interview rule, IMO.

PAGE 85/AVUS: great content, wish the "almost full bleed" shot wasn't cluttered up-looking with lots headline type. Look at the bricks! Notice it looks like they're driving on the bricks and not on the seams? Great stuff! BIG PICTURES RULE! Although The inclusion of many "obscure" shots in the article was great as well. Wish the Brabham at Longford shot had been larger, film grain and all...

PAGE 91/ MOTORHOMES: great content, great pictures, wasted 1st page with large type. I'd rather read a couple more paragraphs of small type, inconsequential as it may be. Candid "insider" shots rule.

PAGE 96/HOW F1 USED TO BE: great shot, full bleed, yada yada yada...

PAGE 100/FINISHING STRAIGHT: I'm not sure what these two pages are about? A sub-"contents" index???

PAGE 102/SINGAPORE: This could have been the whole magazine IMO. Liked the behind the scenes stuff - the guy working on the track, Glock walking the track, but WTF was Button doing with DC's hair???

Turn the page... WAIT...

The biggest, glossiest race of the season and it only gets two pages of little pictures???

WTF? What kind of sense does that make???

PAGE 104/RACE REPORT SINGAPORE:

Again - a couple of little pictures??? The race results chart is bigger than the pictures???

PAGE 108/ RACE REPORT JAPAN: tiny little pictures???

PAGE 112/CHINA: nice picture of Alonso next to Kovalainen, but then a lot of LITTLE BITTY PICTURES.

PAGE 115/GARY ANDERSON/RBS AD: insider content, sorry, liked it.

PAGE 116: WINDSOR: I like reading what he's thinking. I prefer that to the Race Report; reading prose about what happened at a turn *I can't see in front of me* is a bit dull, I prefer this format of what simply amounts to opinion. I'd read more pages of him just babbling from his viewpoint (sorry, Anti-Windorites)

PAGE 118/ALAN HENRY: .. called it on the "industry bean counters" and Honda.

PAGE 120/SUTIL/BRAZIL PREVIEW: make the picture even larger, although that's the best shot of Interlagos I've seen, unusual perspective, loved it. More commentary from drivers the better.

PAGE 122/WHAT'S IT LIKE TO: good content, would prefer more, but "oh well"...


BOTTOM LINE:

1) bigger pictures. Framing shots looks old stylistically, the magazine equivalent of a baroque gothic-rococo picture frame around a photograph;
2) direct F1 insider content rules above anything else;
3) extra large fonts are silly and annoying;
4) the cluttered, busy look is the magazine equivalent of somebody yelling at you - annoying and unneccesary;
5) describing what I already saw in the race is redundant;
6) the geekier the better.

IMO. I know I probably just wasted 30 minutes of my life. : Hope I didn't offend.

#281 Ayrton-No.1

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 17:54

Originally posted by bradleyl
Guys, without being condescending, I think you've got to try and understand the requirements for a cover star of the magazine rather than just assuming every F1 driver is worthy material. Some guys sell well, some guys don't - and the role of the cover, on the newsstand, is to attract readers to the magazine. I'm afraid that as shown by the results of the recent global survey, levels of recognition for both Heidfeld and Jarno (much as I love him) are practically zero - and they would bomb as cover stars. There's no obligation to feature the entire field on the cover, and I think it's fair to say these guys are not going to be starring on it any time soon...


to see that Jarno got 0.1 percent of the votes was very dissapointing (I was one of that .1% :) ), but we have to take into account that it was just another survey, so nothing serious, really. Just take a look how unpopular Hamilton is on this forum, but in that survey he got most votes :cool:

But if you think that in order to justify a cover in your magazine you have to be either Hamilton or Schumacher, then obviously guys like Jarno have no chance at all.

#282 potmotr

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 18:11

If Quick Nick wins a couple of races this season, would be get a shot of the cover?

#283 dank

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 18:45

Originally posted by Rubens Hakkamacher
This will be over the top, and probably will make people mad.


Or people will think you are mad for spending thirty minutes going through a magazine from three months ago :lol:

#284 Craven Morehead

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 19:01

Originally posted by bradleyl
PS: Just to play devil's advocate... "after all Jarno (and Nick for that matter) have achieved in F1"... That would be, erm, one win in a total of about 350 races. Hardly earth-shattering, is it? (Yes, I know Jenson's record is similar, but he's been on more because he's British... and that has its own, though far-from-unanimous, appeal for a British audience).


To be fair to Jarno, that one win DID come at Monaco, the 'crown jewel'. If he didn't merit a cover then, well I guess his chances are pretty slim now. I understand your point that it's a British mag, designed for (mostly) British consumption. Purely out of curiousity, can anybody venture a guess as to how many times JB's been featured on the cover?

#285 Ayrton-No.1

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 19:46

Originally posted by bradleyl
PS: Just to play devil's advocate... "after all Jarno (and Nick for that matter) have achieved in F1"... That would be, erm, one win in a total of about 350 races. Hardly earth-shattering, is it? (Yes, I know Jenson's record is similar, but he's been on more because he's British... and that has its own, though far-from-unanimous, appeal for a British audience).


Are you serious??? :eek: Is this a comment of a journalist working for the best selling GP magazine in the world?! That you diminish two world class F1 drivers in such way, that's just pathetic. Such words don't even deserve a comment :down:
still, just for the sake of the argument, what can you tell me about this;

Alex Wurz, 0 GP wins, 69 GP starts - F1Racing cover August 1998
Jean Alesi, 1 GP win, 202 GP - F1R cover August 1999, May 2006
Jenson Button, 1 GP win, 148 GP - F1R cover May 2002, Feb 2003, July 2005, Feb 2005, Feb 2006, June 2008
Mark Webber, 0 GP wins, 116 GP - F1R cover July 2003, Jan 2005, Aug 2005 - total of three times!!!
Nico Rosberg, 0 GP wins, 47 GP - F1R cover Jan 2006, Aug 2006
Robert Kubica, 1 GP win, 34 GP - F1R cover Feb 2007, Aug 2008
Giancarlo Fisichella, 3 GP wins, 206 GP F1R cover - Aug 2002

:smoking:

#286 Ayrton-No.1

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 19:52

Originally posted by Craven Morehead


To be fair to Jarno, that one win DID come at Monaco, the 'crown jewel'. If he didn't merit a cover then, well I guess his chances are pretty slim now. I understand your point that it's a British mag, designed for (mostly) British consumption. Purely out of curiousity, can anybody venture a guess as to how many times JB's been featured on the cover?


:up:
exactly my point.
Schumacher was winning everything that season, then came Jarno's 'senna-like' performance at Monaco, spicing up that boring season a bit, every journalist was raving about it for weeks, yet F1 Racing avoided this big time :

#287 bradleyl

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 20:22

Guys, I've been at the mag for a year - and had nothing to do with that race (Monaco 04) apart from celebrating the result in serious style afterwards. But in general, the magazine doesn't do backward looking newsy covers, but tries to project forwards. So I wouldn't have expected a cover with Jarno following that win (though, as Renault PR at the time, I'd have loved it and probably suggested it to the mag's staff!)

As for the stats you've pulled out Ayrton No.1, I think it's fair to say you fell for the bait - I was simply egging you on to a reaction like that, perhaps a little meanly, I know. The judgment isn't simply made on race wins (hence my reference to Diniz), but profile - particularly in the UK. I can't speak for the decisions before early last year, as they were made by different people with different priorities (see Wurz's presence, for example). I'm just giving my viewpoint from now; people like Button, Webber, Rosberg etc... are higher profile than Heidfeld or Trulli. I'm not saying they're better drivers, just better known. But I'm impressed with your knowledge of our cover stars, though...!

Rubens, thanks for the comprehensive review. A couple of things about the November '08 issue:

- Full bleed pics everywhere. A lovely idea, but can you imagine how hard the mag would be to read with so much white type off dark backgrounds? We'd be sent opticians' bills every month from our readers... I think the real point, though, is that good magazines vary their style and tone - like a good public speaker. It's not a poster book but a magazine - and as you suggested, you want lots of words, but also lots of big pics. Given that our number of pages is necessarily finite, we have to find a compromise - and full bleed pics don't allow for many words. I think we give the pictures the space they deserve to work with good impact - look at the Vettel feature this month as proof.

- Fair point about Contents, and one we'll probably discuss at some point.

- Parades: I think it's a good balance. Otherwise, we get told there aren't enough words and too many pictures! This is a real personal taste issue, and we feel it's about right at this length.

- I don't take your point re: Singapore. By the time we came out, every other news outlet had done Singapore to death - what would we have added? And finally, and more importantly, Singapore was our big cover feature in the previous month's issue... we can't make it a brochure for the race :-)

I think your desire for 'the geekier the better' may be that of a relatively small minority - I've always loved F1 and devoured mags about it, but wouldn't choose to read pages of interview with a Brembo man, for example. But I can't back up that hunch with anything.

#288 Gordon McCabe

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 20:32

Changing the subject slightly, but staying within the existing thread, do people think that the current state of motorsport journalism provides the right conditions for producing really great F1 journalists, such as Nigel Roebuck and Mark Hughes?

Hughes, in particular, is a product of the Motoring News academy of motorsport journalism, which, of course, no longer exists. Motoring News was by far the best, most-informative publication of the 1980s and early 1990s. Will any of today's publications, with their combination of low word counts and average photography, be able to produce such talent?

#289 LostProphet

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 20:33

Originally posted by Ayrton-No.1


Are you serious??? :eek: Is this a comment of a journalist working for the best selling GP magazine in the world?! That you diminish two world class F1 drivers in such way, that's just pathetic. Such words don't even deserve a comment :down:
still, just for the sake of the argument, what can you tell me about this;

Alex Wurz, 0 GP wins, 69 GP starts - F1Racing cover August 1998
Jean Alesi, 1 GP win, 202 GP - F1R cover August 1999, May 2006
Jenson Button, 1 GP win, 148 GP - F1R cover May 2002, Feb 2003, July 2005, Feb 2005, Feb 2006, June 2008
Mark Webber, 0 GP wins, 116 GP - F1R cover July 2003, Jan 2005, Aug 2005 - total of three times!!!
Nico Rosberg, 0 GP wins, 47 GP - F1R cover Jan 2006, Aug 2006
Robert Kubica, 1 GP win, 34 GP - F1R cover Feb 2007, Aug 2008
Giancarlo Fisichella, 3 GP wins, 206 GP F1R cover - Aug 2002

:smoking:


Clearly you missed the "just to play devils advocate" bit ...

#290 bradleyl

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 20:57

I won't take that personally, Gordon :)

I agree with you about Mark and that crop of journalists - we still work with a number of them, and they're all quality operators (though MN in those days sounds like it was absolutely barking...)

In terms of what you mention, though, I think what made MN unique was a shared passion and above all, an enjoyment of the subject matter. At MN today, Autosport and F1 Racing, that still exists - and I say that as a relatively new arrival to the scene. So I think there's still ample opportunity for new, great writers to emerge. Will they be the same in style, tone etc...? No. But no less worthy for that

#291 rce

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 21:01

All I really want to know is - why does F1R take so long to get here (North America)?

#292 Ayrton-No.1

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 22:26

Originally posted by bradleyl
Guys, I've been at the mag for a year - and had nothing to do with that race (Monaco 04) apart from celebrating the result in serious style afterwards. But in general, the magazine doesn't do backward looking newsy covers, but tries to project forwards. So I wouldn't have expected a cover with Jarno following that win (though, as Renault PR at the time, I'd have loved it and probably suggested it to the mag's staff!)

As for the stats you've pulled out Ayrton No.1, I think it's fair to say you fell for the bait - I was simply egging you on to a reaction like that, perhaps a little meanly, I know. The judgment isn't simply made on race wins (hence my reference to Diniz), but profile - particularly in the UK. I can't speak for the decisions before early last year, as they were made by different people with different priorities (see Wurz's presence, for example). I'm just giving my viewpoint from now; people like Button, Webber, Rosberg etc... are higher profile than Heidfeld or Trulli. I'm not saying they're better drivers, just better known. But I'm impressed with your knowledge of our cover stars, though...!


alright Bradleyl, fair enough :)

#293 dank

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 22:34

Bradley, are you able to shed any light at all on the Email I received during December which gave indication that F1 Racing would be running an online fantasy league for this season? Or is that something that will be announced in a future issue?

#294 LoudHoward

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 08:15

Mark Webber, 0 GP wins, 116 GP - F1R cover July 2003, Jan 2005, Aug 2005 - total of three times!!!

I know, it's an outrage that really can't be defended.

Only three times is horrible, fix it this year eh?

#295 Gordon McCabe

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 12:01

No offence intended! :)

Essentially, Motoring News was a publication for enthusiasts, conceived and developed during an era in which F1 was still considered to be a minority sport. F1 Racing is a publication conceived and developed for the larger, but perhaps more casual audience, which now exists. It's straightforward economics and demographics.

#296 equality

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 12:47

I remember when F1 racing was launched, and took away certain elements from the autosport mag, like giorgio piola. And indeed it was catered for a wider audience who did not necesarily know about F1 rich history.

But i never could adapt to Matt Bishops self-indulgence. That guy would write an editorial about how he went to lunch with Ron Dennis and where Dennis would praise Bishops intelligence and such. Then came the Button-hype and it all went downards imo.

I stuck with Autosport untill Roebucks ever lasting hate campaign towards Ferrari and Schumi got the better of me. In fact, the only reason i came to look at the site and this board was when i heard he stopped his 5th column. The funny thing is that guys like AFCA and ATM_Andy provide more inside info on this board than Autosport ever did. I dont think they can come up with faster info except some editorials of Mark Hughes.

#297 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 15:25

Originally posted by bradleyl

- Full bleed pics everywhere. A lovely idea, but can you imagine how hard the mag would be to read with so much white type off dark backgrounds? We'd be sent opticians' bills every month from our readers... I


Well, two things - I'm not suggesting always white on a darker photo, but to do the pulled drop-shadow thing or do an under/above/side thing, like a lot of your advertisers do. Having said that, light type on a dark background works fine IMO, _wired_ magazine does it a lot. You just have to be more clever with guttering the type to work with the image.


lots of big pics. Given that our number of pages is necessarily finite, we have to find a compromise - and full bleed pics don't allow for many words.


Well, I suppose my thinking is to prioritize the images; I suppose I hate margins?

I think we give the pictures the space they deserve to work with good impact - look at the Vettel feature this month as proof.


Unfortunately here in the states I probably won't see it until after next month!

- Parades: I think it's a good balance. Otherwise, we get told there aren't enough words and too many pictures! This is a real personal taste issue, and we feel it's about right at this length.


Well then, how about comprehensive interviews of Darren Heath, Cahier et. al.?

I agree the ratio is right, I just think the images could extend to the margins and be a bit larger in a lot of cases, and that you *could* run light text on dark more and have more visual impact.

I admit I'm a photography buff. I almost went into graphic arts as a field, and was heavily influenced by a magazine called "Skateboarder" in the 70's when I was a kid. Part of the mystique of skateboarding in that era was greatly influenced IMO by the imagery/style of that magazine, and if you look at the X-Game-sport magazines (skateboarding, BMX, moutain biking, etc.) you'll see what I mean. I don't think people would mind reading 10 more pages of the same text on a photo background, if that photo makes you grin when you first turn to that page.


- I don't take your point re: Singapore. By the time we came out, every other news outlet had done Singapore to death - what would we have added?


Well, I'm speaking from my standpoint here in the U.S.A.

[/B]

You guys are the ONLY exposure of F1 here. Period.

There was *never* any mention of F1, Singapore or not, in *any* other news outlet, anywhere here either before that magazine reached the stands here, during or after. Which perhaps explains my agitation? *You guys are it here*. I've admittedly never been abroad (insert Groucho joke), and I'd like to imagine F1 is much higher profile/commonplace elsewhere on the globe - but *here*, it's invisible.

So from my viewpoint - no, Singapore has not been done to death, it really hasn't been "done" at all. I can't even imagine what anything relative to F1 would be like being "done to death"!

I think your desire for 'the geekier the better' may be that of a relatively small minority


Really? Does anyone here want to chime in on that?

No offense, but I'd bet you're really *really* wrong on that one! Or maybe this is just a U.S. thing? Note the popularity of Steve Matchett's commentary and books here; he's a geek, he talks like a geek, and it *appears to me* that "we" love it!


Who else here *loves* seeing shots of engines, carbon fiber being layed up, F1 parts, engineer speak? *Am I *really* alone in that?* Speak up to mr. Lord here!

- I've always loved F1 and devoured mags about it, but wouldn't choose to read pages of interview with a Brembo man, for example. But I can't back up that hunch with anything.


I bet it could be backed up here. Of course, this isn't quantified with any sort of context - I'm not saying "I want to read an interview of a Brembo tech instead of an interview with Jarno" or some such, but in that if to provide *MORE* content would require such a thing - yeah, I would love to read it. It doesn't have to be just stuff about Brembo brakes; the guy no doubt would also have anecdotes that most of "us" (IMO) would probably find fascinating.

Consider that you're around it everyday, and you're probably at this point immune to the luster of things you see as commonplace or sundry. This is the number 1 problem with management in F1 IMO - Bernie and Max seem completely oblivious of what Joe Smoe gets off on about F1 racing, and car racing in general.

/ do you get excited by seeing the movie _Grand Prix_?
// a nod to Jon Pollak: his photo-journalism-essays go far to illustrate the geek-fan viewpoint that I think is missing in F1 Racing
/// But don't get me wrong, I love the magazine and try to buy it when I can afford it, despite being 1-2 months behind here in the States

#298 bradleyl

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 10:20

Hi Rubens,

More good points here. Two things I'd pick up:

- We'd never do interviews with F1 photographers/journos in preference to interviews with drivers or team personnel, I'm afraid. We place ourselves firmly 'in the wings' of the sport and don't confuse ourselves with the stars of the show; the same would go for the photographers too. I'm sure, though, that you could write to them all independently to pursue your photography interest - they all have websites and contact details.

- Your point about Singapore doesn't take account of the 10+ page feature our own magazine ran, ahead of the race... As I say, we can't simply do promo for Singapore; every Parade that month was from that race, which is testament to its uniqueness; coupled with a race report, that about does for our coverage, given the prominence the race had the previous month. In general our features are quite atemporal, or try to look forward to coming events rather than back - it's the only practical approach as a monthly, I'm afraid.

- As for your point about being immuned to the lustre of the sport, I'd contest that strongly. All I'm saying is that, die-hard fan that I am, the things that get me really excited are the human interest stories of the main players, the history, the racing and the circuits. Even the cars are for me, a secondary consideration. However, you say:

"Who else here *loves* seeing shots of engines, carbon fiber being layed up, F1 parts, engineer speak? *Am I *really* alone in that?* Speak up to mr. Lord here!"

All I can say is for engines, just wait for the season preview; for carbon fiber being laid up, that's what the Williams wing story delivered; this month's issue has a feature on wind tunnel models and how they're made... I think we're covering this stuff, in our own style, already. We're lighter on tech info about the cars than, say, Autosport and that is perhaps something we need to look at... but again, I think we're on the same page here...

However, there's a balance between producing readable, accessible copy and simple 'geek speak', for want of a better phrase. Producing the former is a bigger and better writing challenge, but also results in a better article, I think. When I worked with Pat Symonds, it was his ability to explain the near-incomprehensible in layman's terms that made him so interesting. I don't find impenetrable technical text a satisfying read - and that has sometimes been a fault of the magazine in the past.

In any case, thanks again for taking the time. The contributors to the forum are a minority of the readership, but a vocal one and also a good yardstick for what our loyal reader base are thinking; all your comments are both appreciated and listened to.

Cheers

#299 bradleyl

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 10:22

equality, concerning your comments, pick up the mag this month if you can - I hope you'll see the style has changed, significantly, from what you're talking about...

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#300 bradleyl

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 10:23

dank, I'm not really, I'm afraid. I know it's something that's being worked on but it's not being directly managed on the editorial side, so I can't shed any light at this stage, sorry.