133 replies to this topic

[smitten]

I feel fine. I just dislike some of the platitudes around this topic. The one I responded to was that riders know the risks they are taking, but there are others. Why is it good to die doing something you love?

It's not good to die doing something you love, and nobody is asserting it is. But nobody competes the TT without being very aware of the risks.

[garoidb]

It's not good to die doing something you love, and nobody is asserting it is. But nobody competes the TT without being very aware of the risks.

It is often stated as a reason for comfort after a fatal accident (such as on these boards for example, but also in the media).

[smitten]

It is often stated as a reason for comfort after a fatal accident (such as on these boards for example, but also in the media).

I've never heard a family member saying that it was good a rider had died

[garoidb]

I've never heard a family member saying that it was good a rider had died

No, not what I meant of course. The phrase (not from a family member) is usually along the lines of "at least he died doing what he loved". What he loved was what killed him!

[speedman13]

Most people die in bed but it does not stop you going to bed at night.

[garoidb]

Most people die in bed but it does not stop you going to bed at night.

This is the kind of nonsense I am talking about.

[smitten]

No, not what I meant of course. The phrase (not from a family member) is usually along the lines of "at least he died doing what he loved". What he loved was what killed him!

I'm not sure why that shouldn't be seen as consolation?

[rhukkas]

This is the kind of nonsense I am talking about.

Today some guys are doing 200mph living life to the full, why your waste your precious life moaning on a web forum. Who exactly is taking the bigger risk with their life? Who is wasting THEIR one and only opportunity?

It's all about perspective. If someone wants to do something very risky because otherwise they'd go mental then fine. As long as they don't endanger people who are unaware of the risks.

Edited by rhukkas, 03 June 2013 - 09:24.

[garoidb]

Today some guys are doing 200mph living life to the full, why your waste your precious life moaning on a web forum. Who exactly is taking the bigger risk with their life? Who is wasting THEIR one and only opportunity?

Why do you equate going at 200mph with living life to the full? That is an extremely narrow definition. By the way, my first post related to motorcycle road racing was yesterday and I do many other things besides posting here. Thanks for getting personal, though.

[motorhead]

Strange debate on a Motorsport forum, going 200mph or as fast as you can is what the motorsport is all about.

[rhukkas]

Why do you equate going at 200mph with living life to the full? That is an extremely narrow definition. By the way, my first post related to motorcycle road racing was yesterday and I do many other things besides posting here. Thanks for getting personal, though.

I am not getting personal, just highlighting your own narrow mindedness. It is extremely narrow minded to not understand why riders do this.

I am not moaning at the event, and nor am I moaning about how people choose to invest in their own time. My point is to merely highight that on a philosophical level that sitting on a computer typing nonsense is no less a waste of a life than someone who bins it and crashes on the Isle of Man.

Nothing personal.

[DS27]

I'm not sure why that shouldn't be seen as consolation?

Exactly - it is. My partner takes funeral services for a living. She has done the eulogy's for hundreds of people, including some who died doing something they loved that happened to be dangerous - the most common being riding a motorbike on the road. It is, to one degree or another, some comfort to know they died doing something they enjoyed.

As for the general debate, i'm not getting in to it. If I felt like some here did, then I would figure out that I am on the wriong forum.

Edited by DS27, 03 June 2013 - 12:24.

[Tonka]

I feel fine. I just dislike some of the platitudes around this topic. The one I responded to was that riders know the risks they are taking, but there are others. Why is it good to die doing something you love?

Keyboard warriors don't get adrenolin rushes do they?

Some quotes from IOM racers

David Jefferies, killed in 2003, said -
"No-one is forcing me to go, I'm doing it completely off my own back. I enjoy doing it. There are so many things in life that you aren't allowed to do for some pathetic reason that some bloke in a suit has decided because it's dangerous or some other reason."

Guy Martin, explains: "The danger is a big thing why I like it, that's my main thing. It is thrilling. People think you are mad for saying that."

Why do you think car races pay to lap the Nordschleife ? If you don't get it, you're posting in the wrong place.

[7MGTEsup]

What's worse? Riding a bike with the risk of dying? Or laying on your death bed at old age thinking I wish I had done that?

People are all made differently some people see it as unnecessary risk others see it as a challenge that is worth all the risk. The world needs both types of people.

I'm all for live and let live

[garoidb]

I am not getting personal, just highlighting your own narrow mindedness. It is extremely narrow minded to not understand why riders do this.

I am not moaning at the event, and nor am I moaning about how people choose to invest in their own time. My point is to merely highight that on a philosophical level that sitting on a computer typing nonsense is no less a waste of a life than someone who bins it and crashes on the Isle of Man.

Nothing personal.

So is not personal to call someone narrow minded and suggest that they are wasting their life. Right.

By the way, I do understand why riders do it. Where did I ever say otherwise? I also have not called for road racing to be banned so that is a red herring too.

[Bob Riebe]

And the kids?

Don't have them.

Otherwise, life is a bitch, que sera sera.

[Bob Riebe]

That is no reason to lose 50 or 60 years of your life unnecessarily.

That is your opinion and is of zero concern to anyone else, no matter what they do.

Of course thank God the Chicken-Little society does not control the Isle.

[Gyno]

DUNLOP takes his 3rd win for the week.

This guy is special.
He has already won 6 TT races at the age of 24. just amazing.
He will surpass his Great uncle Joey unless something bad happens to him.

McGuinness, as the outright lap record holder no stranger to speed, said he had never seen riding like Michael on the last lap in all of his TT experience.

If anyone is gonna beat Joeys record it's gonna be Michael.
Cant see McGuinnes continue racing for much longer, he is getting to old.

[Skinnyguy]

What's worse? Riding a bike with the risk of dying? Or laying on your death bed at old age thinking I wish I had done that?

As long as your life/health or the life/health from someone else who has accepted the risk are the only ones in the line, whatever risky stuff you choose to do is OK for me.

That´s why I admire these guys, but find totally despicable people speeding/drunk driving/being assholes in open roads.

[Jambo]

Michael Dunlop is on fire this week! Amazing! Can he go for six on Friday? His Supertwin isn't the best but if anyone can overcome the disadvantage....

[Gyno]

Michael Dunlop is on fire this week! Amazing! Can he go for six on Friday? His Supertwin isn't the best but if anyone can overcome the disadvantage....

I'm afraid that ain gonna happen.
He pulled out from the lightweight race.

He got back problems and will focus on the senior TT and then go home.

So a max of 5 wins which will equal Ian Hutchingtons record.

[Jambo]

He is still undecided, still on entry list and going to decide in the morning.

[Talisman]

I was drawing a distinction between death of natural causes at the end of a (hopefully) long life, and death due to an accident in motorcycle road racing. I did so because the post I responded to did not. By the way, there is nothing wrong with criticising the decisions other people make.

It is ultimately all about making a free choice.

Not a single motorbike rider does the TT under duress. It is their informed choice. They know the risks and the rewards and they choose to race regardless.

Actually I think this issue is bigger, far more important than a mere bike race. If you think certain activities should be banned or castrated because you feel the benefits outweigh the risks then how far do you want to go? What do you think is safe enough? As Simoncelli and others showed last season motorbike racing on a dedicated circuit can be fatal too, should that be banned? How about club level racing where injuries and deaths are far more common than on the sanitised motorsport series we get to watch on TV? Riding motorbikes on public roads? Riding horses? Where would you stop?

For me the TT is an expression of the importance of free will and the fact that the Isle of Man government and people are mature enough to respect it (as well as the quality of the racing of course). The day the TT is banned, and I hope it never happens, will be a truly sad day for humanity as it will show that our tolerance for free choice will have diminished by a very significant degree.

[cairnsie13]

A Very surprising debate on a motorsport forum, however back to the original topic.
M Dunlop always worries me. He rides very hard for a road racer. I mean nearly loosing the front didn't put him off. Even saying after the race something along the lines of he would either bin it or win it on that last lap. He seems to ride all out just hope he doesn't injure himself. Respect to him and as people say if he keeps going he may well top joey.

[SgtPepperoni]

It is ultimately all about making a free choice.

Not a single motorbike rider does the TT under duress. It is their informed choice. They know the risks and the rewards and they choose to race regardless.

Actually I think this issue is bigger, far more important than a mere bike race. If you think certain activities should be banned or castrated because you feel the benefits outweigh the risks then how far do you want to go? What do you think is safe enough? As Simoncelli and others showed last season motorbike racing on a dedicated circuit can be fatal too, should that be banned? How about club level racing where injuries and deaths are far more common than on the sanitised motorsport series we get to watch on TV? Riding motorbikes on public roads? Riding horses? Where would you stop?

For me the TT is an expression of the importance of free will and the fact that the Isle of Man government and people are mature enough to respect it (as well as the quality of the racing of course). The day the TT is banned, and I hope it never happens, will be a truly sad day for humanity as it will show that our tolerance for free choice will have diminished by a very significant degree.

[SgtPepperoni]

A Very surprising debate on a motorsport forum, however back to the original topic.
M Dunlop always worries me. He rides very hard for a road racer. I mean nearly loosing the front didn't put him off. Even saying after the race something along the lines of he would either bin it or win it on that last lap. He seems to ride all out just hope he doesn't injure himself. Respect to him and as people say if he keeps going he may well top joey.

I've been concerned for him for some time now. His mental approach to road racing is far to aggressive. He needs to take a step back and re-evaluate his position. You don't get too many chances to make mistakes in this game.

[TimRTC]

Nasty crash in the senior race - red flagged after a bike went into the crowd and reports that at least one spectator seriously injured.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...of-man-22818402

[Bob Riebe]

Nasty crash in the senior race - red flagged after a bike went into the crowd and reports that at least one spectator seriously injured.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...of-man-22818402

Glad it was no worse than it was.

The Isle is about five or six hours ahead of my time, what were the results?

I see there are new four cylinder Nortons in the race.
Just who is building these now?

Edited by Bob Riebe, 07 June 2013 - 19:16.

[DampMongoose]

My cousin was watching at the bottom of bray hill and texted me earlier about his girlfriends baptism of fire at Tt spectating as they ducked as the broken exhaust came flying past them... Hope everyone is ok and recovers from any injuries sustained!

[JacnGille]

Hope everyone is ok and recovers from any injuries sustained!

Yes

[Bob Riebe]

HURRAY, for the old master!!

At another site, a Dunlop booster (I have nothing but respect for the young Dunlop) said McGuinness was old news.

Again three cheers for John McGuinness!


J McGuinness +10
M Dunlop + 7.5
B Anstey + 1.0
J Hillier
G Martin
M Rutter
W Dunlop
D Harrison
D Stewart

On the last lap four riders lapped in excess of 131 mph. I wonder if they are not near the limit that physics says there ain't no more.

I truly wonder if they will ever reach 133 much less 135 but then I was amazed when they went from Hailwood's long standing record to 120 plus fairly quickly.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 08 June 2013 - 18:51.

[Rob]

On the last lap four riders lapped in excess of 131 mph. I wonder if they are not near the limit that physics says there ain't no more.

I truly wonder if they will ever reach 133 much less 135 but then I was amazed when they went from Hailwood's long standing record to 120 plus fairly quickly.

The track conditions weren't there for a record lap. The tarmac was melting in quite a few places. I think if they had run the Senior in the morning then they would have seen a 132mph lap. Inevitably we're going to see smaller and smaller increments as we become limited by the law of diminishing returns. I think we'll only ever see a big increase if there's a technological breakthrough - such as the electric bikes becoming developed to the point where they start to go quicker than their petrol cousins. When they start employing supercapacitor technology, I think the gap will start to come down fairly quickly.

[Bob Riebe]

If the current or the one just before the current GP bike ran there, would they have a bit of an advantage for quicker laps or not?

I still find it sad that Sheene and Roberts did not run there.

I wonder if Rossi would impress there as he has in GP.

[Collombin]

Didn't Sheene bin it in the wet on his first visit and then became anti TT ever after?

I think the top GP riders could be exceptionally quick at the Isle of Man - the ones that can adapt to its unique challenges anyway.