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1946 Grand Prix Races


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#1 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 07:47

Grand prix racing in 1946, after the end of WW II the previous year, was not yet well organized, a hard time for everybody. Few cars were seen on the streets and gasoline was practically not available. Therefore events were held predominantly in cities where spectators could walk, use bicycles or public transportation to attend the races. These were loosely organized, using the 1939 grand prix formula mixed with voiturettes. The cars from the late Thirties were already somewhat aged, German cars and drivers were banned from grand prix racing.

In this setting with all kinds of logistical problems, 18 Formula Libre races for grand prix cars were staged in 1946. Since no championship was in place, these events were more or less equal of importance (or weren't they? Therefore,) for my own statistics, I determined the more important races from the 18 events and found seven, which I consider the major races: Nice GP - Marseille GP – St. Cloud GP - Albi GP – GP des Nations - Turin GP - Milan GP.

The works-supported Alfa Romeo team attended four of the seven events. After checking and rechecking, I found only three races, which had a remote significance of a superior GP, elevating them to Grande Épreuve status: St. Cloud GP - GP des Nations - Turin GP. The sole purpose of determining these 'Grandes Épreuves' was to find the "Best Driver" of the year, judging by the performance in these most important races. It was Raymond Sommer.

Since this is such a controversial issue, I would like to hear the thoughts from everybody. What do YOU think? Please let me know, which grand prix races would YOU consider as major events in 1946?


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#2 Marcel Schot

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 08:57

From what I have available right now (Darren Galpin's site), I'd say this:

Turin GP automatically qualifies, since it's regarded as the first Formula One race

Based on the international field and the appearance of works teams, Nice, Marseille, Albi and GP des Nations also qualify

Milano is marginally doubtful, as it's basically a completely Italian event. However, the 2 heats + final structure and the presence of all the big drivers of Maserati and Alfa make it an inclusion in my book.

From Darren's results I doubted about St.Cloud too, but seeing Farina took the fastest lap for Alfa, they were just struck by bad luck and didn't make the top 6.

So to cut a long story short, agreed on all 7 races.

Which pointsystem did you use? the by now infamous 30's way or the World Championship way that took effect a few years later?

#3 Marcel Schot

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 09:13

Just found this one.

The start of the Gran Premio de Milano:

Posted Image
From http://www.fantastic...0601.htm</font>

#4 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 09:16

I applied the point scoring system of the Fifties.

#5 Barry Lake

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 13:28

It is interesting to see people doing the same research I did at length 20 and more years ago. It always annoyed me that modern day authors and journalists ignored what had happened in GP racing prior to 1950.
I went from 1895 to 1949, trying to decide which races would qualify as "world championship" events and applying a scoring system.
Somewhere, I have reams and reams of notes and results on it all.
There were thoughts of writing a book on the subject. Then I thought, "Who would be interested?". It occurred to me I might be the only person in the world who cared.
And then Ray Bell told me about this forum...

#6 Don Capps

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 15:33

Barry,

That is how most of us probably wound up here!! I wouldn't be at all surprised if most of us did something very similar at some point. Indeed, your effort and mine were very similar, but I was basically looking for information -- but while I was at it... That is were all my mysterious 'notes' I keep referring to came in. During the 50's & 60's I created my own championships for earlier seasons because I didn't have a real clue about how the Euro Championship was done -- not that it bothered me one bit, I just did my own system!

Also, keep in mind that it has been only recently that results from the modern championship events have been generally available. One of my proudest achievements are the notebooks that I compiled with the entries, grids, and results of the WDC events and virtually all of the non-WDC events and many of the pre-war events. I shudder now at the huge amount of work that went into those ratty & tatty looking three ring binders with just tons of data in them! I even made some forms and recorded information on the forms rather than the notebook paper I used for ages & ages. I still have them, although they are pitiful condition now after decades of use. I did it all in pencil and made no end of corrections & additions over the years. If I seem a bit wistful, I am. I still think fondly of the hours I spent working on my 'notes' -- as I have always called them. I think I was 11 years old when I started. For my 12th birthday, the gift I begged for was a copy of Norman Smith's new book, Case History. And I got it! While I have lost so many books & magazines over the years, much is still buried within the pages of my notes. Sigh....

Marcel,

We still have another year -- 1947 -- until Formula A (Formula 1) comes into effect, established by that new organization, the FIA, the replacement for the AIACR. What a nice photo of the Milano race! Now that makes my heart beat faster than a modern grid any day!

Hans,

After looking at your selections and mulling them over, spot on. The Seven and then the three selected for Grande Épreuve status make sense to me.

I think that the Euro Championship should retain that from the 1935/1939 series. The system now in effect was derived from the FIM system which was devised in late 1948 for the first FIM championships in 1949.

Also, don't completely ignore the fact that the AAA events were still being run to the pre-war Grand Prix formula. What if Caracciola had not crashed at Indy? Or later on if Don Lee and crew had a better idea of the logistics and the demands of the W154? The Indy race being a part of the championship later on was an attempt to be inclusive, but....

As we have discussed earlier in another thread, these "forgotten" seasons are more interesting than people realize. I am always finding myself stopping and thinking about that period whenever I see or hear the '1950' date being bandied about.


#7 Marcel Schot

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 18:21

1946, 7 races, AIACR style championship:

				Nice	Mrs'lle	St.Cl.	Albi	Nations	Torino	Milano	

Raymond Sommer		2	1	1	7	4	3	4	22

Eugene Chaboud		3	4	4	8	8	4	8	39

Carlo Fellice Trossi	8	8	8	8	2	4	1	39

Achille Varzi		8	8	8	8	4	1	2	39

Arialdo Ruggieri	4	4	4	6	8	6	8	40

Luigi Villoresi		1	8	8	5	7	8	4	41

Tazio Nuvolari		8	8	6	1	4	7	7	41

Louis Chiron		4	8	2	8	8	4	8	42

Henri Louveau		5	8	6	2	8	5	8	42

Giuseppe Farina		8	8	5	8	1	7	5	42

Jean-Pierre Wimille	8	8	5	8	3	2	8	42

Georges Grignard	4	3	4	8	8	8	8	43

Enrico Plate		8	2	6	8	8	4	8	44

Emmanuel de Graffenried	8	4	8	8	4	8	4	44

Robert Mazaud		6	7	3	7	8	8	8	47

Charles Pozzi		4	8	4	8	8	8	8	48

Raph			7	8	6	3	8	8	8	48

Discoride Lanza		8	8	4	8	8	4	8	48

Leslie Brooke		8	8	8	4	8	4	8	48

Reg Parnell		8	8	8	4	7	7	6	48

Maurice Trintignant	6	8	4	8	8	8	8	50

Henri Trillaud		6	8	4	8	8	8	8	50

Consalvo Sanesi		8	8	8	8	8	7	3	50

Ciro Basadonna		8	5	8	6	8	8	8	51

Maurice Varet		4	8	8	8	8	8	8	52

Roger Hillier		8	4	8	8	8	8	8	52

T.A.S.O. Mathiesson	8	8	4	8	8	8	8	52

Yves Giraud-Cabantous	8	8	4	8	8	8	8	52

Eric Verkade		8	8	4	8	8	8	8	52

Roger Wormser		8	8	8	4	8	8	8	52

Jean Achard		8	8	8	4	8	8	8	52

B.Bira			8	8	8	8	4	8	8	52

Raymond Mays		8	8	8	8	4	8	8	52

Fernand Bianchi		5	8	8	8	8	8	8	53

Pierre Levegh		5	8	8	8	8	8	8	53

Harry Schell		6	8	7	8	8	8	8	53

Franco Cortese		7	8	8	8	8	6	8	53

Paul Friderich		8	7	6	8	8	8	8	53

George Abecassis	8	8	8	8	5	8	8	53

Christian Kautz		8	8	8	8	8	5	8	53

Pete Whitehead		8	8	8	8	8	5	8	53

Giorgio Pelassa		8	8	8	8	8	7	7	54

Marcel Balsa		7	8	8	8	8	8	8	55

Philippe Etancelin	7	8	8	8	8	8	8	55

Roger Deho		7	8	8	8	8	8	8	55

Jean Lucas		8	7	8	8	8	8	8	55

Eugene Martin		8	8	7	8	8	8	8	55

Victor-Henri Serve	8	8	7	8	8	8	8	55

David Hampshire		8	8	8	7	8	8	8	55

Luigi Plate		8	8	8	7	8	8	8	55

Emilio Romano		8	8	8	8	8	7	8	55

How was the scoring for shared drives?

This would apply to the following:
  • Ruggieri / Cortese, Nice
  • Chaboud / Giraud-Cabatous, St.Cloud
  • Lanza / Trintignant, St.Cloud

Other questionmark is the lapnumber Jean Lucas retired in Marseille.

#8 Don Capps

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 19:53

This little issue keeps popping up:

How was the scoring for shared drives?


The more I look at things and mull them over, the points seem to belong to the machine and where it ends up...not the driver. This was/is also a matter of discussion for the 1935/1939 Euro Championship. My gut feeling says this is probably right, but....

Hans? Over to you...

#9 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 20:10

Marcel,
an impressive list. I only have scribbles somewhere to confirm that 1946 was Sommer's year. Nowadays I spend most of my times digging in the Twenties and Thirties.

You asked:How was the scoring for shared drives?
In 1935-1939, once a driver took over another car, this, his second drive, did not count towards the championship and he scored no points for his efforts. Drivers scored only points with the car in which they had started the race. That changed from 1950 on, when two drivers split the points.

#10 Don Capps

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 20:21

Hans,

Duh! :o You told me that before!! Failure to engage Thinking Gear... and here it is in front of me, no less. Boy, am I embarassed... My too many concussions are catching up with me at last...

#11 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 20:40

Marcel,
Your 'question', Other questionmark is the lapnumber Jean Lucas retired in Marseille.
Checking my sources for this info, I found zilch.


#12 Michael M

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 20:44

Marcel, it's neither 1946 nor Milano, the date is 5 September 1948 and the event is the Gran Premio d'Italia which had been held at Torino that year. The remarkable thing on this photo is the car right in the first row, race number 28 with Raymond Sommer - it is the first race appearance of a Ferrari monoposto!

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 September 2000 - 14:54

...now I'll get the blame for Barry's presence. Can't we pretend that he came in via Dennis, like I did?

#14 Marcor

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Posted 01 October 2000 - 13:30

In his book "Les Grand Prix de Provence et de Marseille", Maurice Louche wrote that Jean Lucas was sixth in heat 2 and retired on half-race of the final. It was not very precise, so he would have 5 or 6 points.

His car was an Alfa Romeo 8C Monza.

#15 Barry Lake

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 14:33

I suppose most who have tried to apply pointscores to pre-World Championship GP seasons will have gone through the heartache of trying to decide which scoring system should be applied, and which races should be included in the "championship". Different methods, of course, throw up different "champions".
I am sure there would be much discussion on this.
Another factor I often have thought about is how differently teams and drivers might have approached seasons and races had there actually been a championship.
This also raises the question of scoring systems in 1950-to date seasons. If one system was decided on for pre-1950 seasosn and this then was applied also to 1950 onwards, there would be some different world champions.
Which raises yet another point. Comparisons of total points won by drivers during their careers, as well as average points per race are nonsense when some scored 8 points for a win, others 9 and still others 10. Also, in some years there was 1 point for sixth, in earlier years there was not.
To truly compare such things a common scoring system should be applied retrospectively.
Should we all provide our personal list of "world champion drivers" from 1895 to 1949 for discussion?

#16 Don Capps

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 14:59

Since Marcel seems to have sufficient time on his hands, what does the season look like on the "8-6-4-3-2-1 for 1-2-3-4-5-FL" scale? With the four best of the seven rounds counting? I don't have my moto books on hand, but the FIM scoring system was considered but not adopted by the FIA, being modified to the one above.

Interestingly enough, after thinking it over, this would probably be more likely as a scoring system since the former AIACR system might have been considered a tad too "German" for the time...

Interestingly, the AAA Contest Board system of the scoring the first 12 across the line (whether running or not) and counting all events persisted thru the USAC days and into the CART regime -- albeit with as co-efficients for the race distance initially and then a muddled period and a return to the top 12 system.



#17 Marcel Schot

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 16:34

Had time enough, I had time enough :) Today things got busy at work and now I have an article on something more recent to finish. Maybe later on tonight.

#18 Marcel Schot

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 20:24

By popular demand, 86432F scoring:

			Nice	M's'lle	St.Cloud	Albi	Nations	Torino	Milano

Raymond Sommer		7	9	8		-	-	4	2	28 (30)

Achille Varzi		-	-	-		-	-	8	6.5	14.5 

Carlo Felice Trossi	-	-	-		-	6	-	8	14 

Jean-Pierre Wimille	-	-	-		-	5	7	-	12

Luigi Villoresi		8	-	-		1	-	-	3	12

Tazio Nuvolari		-	-	-		8	3	-	-	11

Giuseppe Farina		-	-	1		-	8	-	0.5	 9.5

Enrico Plate		-	6	-		-	-	2	-	 8

Eugene Chaboud		4	-	-		-	-	3	-	 7

Georges Grignard	3	4	-		-	-	-	-	 7

Arialdo Ruggeri		1	3	3		-	-	-	-	 7

Henri Louveau		-	-	-		6	-	-	-	 6

Louis Chiron		-	-	6		-	-	-	-	 6

Emmanuel de Graffenried	-	2	-		-	2	-	-	 4

Raph			-	-	-		4	-	-	-	 4

Robert Mazaud		-	-	4		-	-	-	-	 4

Consalvo Sanesi		-	-	-		-	-	-	4	 4

Alfred Wormser		-	-	-		3	-	-	-	 3

Leslie Brooke		-	-	-		2	-	-	-	 2

TASO Mathieson		-	-	2		-	-	-	-	 2

Franco Cortese		1	-	-		-	-	-	-	 1

edited the list to reflesh best 4 out of 7, which only cost Sommer 2 points.

Notes:
Split 2 points between Cortese & Ruggeri for 5th in Nice
Split 1 point between Farina & Varzi for fastlap in Milano[p][Edited by Marcel Schot on 10-04-2000]

#19 Barry Lake

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 12:44

Hans
It is a long time since I studied this era, and there wasn't as much information readily available then.
I notice in some notes I found that I have three other major races listed that year.
Forez GP
Resistance Cup
Salon GP
Can you remind me why these are not included in the pointscore?
Sommer won the first and third listed, Wimille the Resistance Cup.

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#20 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 17:38

Forez GP on 19 May 1946,
Paris Cup/Resistance Cup on 30 May 1946 and
Coupe du Salon/Salon GP on 6 October 1946
were not considered as one of the seven major events out of the 18 races for grand prix cars that year.

#21 fines

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 17:52

Similarly to Don I started at the age of 10, I think, by compiling my own notes from various sources until I had virtually tons of badly organised scrap material at hand. Thanks to expensive books and computers it’s a little bit easier nowadays, but still exhausting to find that bit of information. Pretty amazing how we all compare with each other!

Though I’m a little bit younger than most of you, the question of pre-1950 „champions" struck me as sure as eggs is eggs, and of course I was going through all kinds of retrospective championship scenarios as well. But, try as I might I could never come up with a satisfactory scheme. For one thing, I found that back then GP Racing was far removed from the organised „circus" I grew up with in the seventies. There were Grandes Épreuves, important and not so important races, and usually not a single driver or team that did tackle anything close to a full season.

Apart from that, I was never fully satisfied with any scoring formula I happened upon. There are examples when a driver won six out of nine races, finished second twice more and still lost the championship when he retired in the last race (FIM Sidecar World Championship of 1988). Ridiculous, if you ask me! Also, until the end of the sixties, many Grand Prix drivers frequently ran the odd Formula 2 race, took part in the Tasman Cup series, the Indy 500 and so on.

The end result of all that was that in 1990 I created my own yardstick, a World Drivers Ranking I called GPChart. This is a computer program I’ve developed over the years to a point were it provides quite useful rankings. At the time I’m ironing out the last bugs of version 6.0 which should soon surface on my website at http://grand-prix-ra...low.com/gpchart.

On seeing this thread I couldn’t resist feeding it with the 1946 data, here’s the result:

Rank Prev			   Name			  Nat Age Net Points  Per 1000 Races Wins



   1	3		  Raymond Sommer		 F   40	960.8741  70.92641   13	5

   2	1	   Jean-Pierre  Wimille	  F   38	616.9813  45.54214	7	3

   3  ---		 Luigi  Villoresi		I   37	575.2945  42.46506	6	1

   4  ---		  Achille  Varzi		 I   42	523.8635  38.66871	4	1

   5  ---		   Carlo Trossi		  I   38	497.2506  36.70429	3	1

   6	7		  Amedée Gordini		 F   47	490.2772  36.18955	6	4

   7  ---		   Louis Chiron		  MC  47	387.5147  28.60419	7	-

   8  ---		   José  Scaron					387.4547  28.59976	5	2

   9  ---		  "Georges Raph"		 F		 374.1178  27.61531   12	1

  10	2		  Henri  Louveau		 F   36	358.0224  26.42724   12	-

  11  ---		  Tazio Nuvolari		 I   54	356.9532  26.34831	7	1

  12  ---		 Giuseppe  Farina		I   40	351.0954  25.91592	4	1

  13	5		  Eugène Chaboud		 F   39	314.5404  23.21764   13	-

  14   16		 Georges Grignard		F   41	275.5762  20.34151   11	-

  15   22		 "Pierre  Levegh"		F   41	250.4994  18.49048	6	-

  16  ---		 Arialdo  Ruggeri				  237.7594  17.55008	9	-

  17  ---		   Enrico Platé					233.3200  17.22239	5	-

  18   24		  Eugène  Martin		 F   31	230.0811  16.98331	8	1

  19  ---		  Robert  Mazaud				   215.2294  15.88705	7	-

  20   15		   René  Bonnet					193.7510  14.30163	6	-

  21  ---		 Giorgio  Pelassa				  146.2703  10.79686	3	1

  22  ---		 Consalvo  Sanesi		I   35	144.8224  10.68999	2	-

  23  ---	  Emanuel de Graffenried	 CH  32	139.8693  10.32438	6	-

  24   14				 Brunot					136.2231  10.05523	4	-

  25  ---		  Taso Mathieson				   135.0108   9.96575	4	-

  26   23	   Maurice  Trintignant	  F   29	133.8916   9.88314	7	-

  27	8		  Henri Trillaud				   131.4041   9.69952	7	-

  28  ---	   Charles  de Cortanze				127.7370   9.42884	4	-

  29  ---		  Charles  Pozzi		 F   37	124.8651   9.21685	6	-

  30  ---		  George  Robson		 USA	+  124.0098   9.15372	3	1

  31  ---		   Louis Rosier		  F   41	122.1020   9.01289	4	-

  32  ---		  Ciro Basadonna				   109.3661   8.07280	7	-

  33  ---		  Hans  Waeffler				   104.0432   7.67989	2	-

  34  ---		   Harry Schell		  USA 25	102.5791   7.57182	8	-

  35  ---		   Adrian  Alin					102.4254   7.56048	6	-

  36  ---		  Leslie  Brooke				   100.9417   7.45096	7	1

  37  ---		   Reg  Parnell		  GB  35	 90.4504   6.67655	8	1

  38  ---		Jacques  Forestier				  89.8830   6.63467	3	-

  39   32		  Roger  Wormser					84.4963   6.23705	3	-

  40  ---		  Franco Cortese		 I   43	 83.8807   6.19161	5	-

  41  ---		Constant  Kneppert				  75.0341   5.53861	1	-

  42  ---		  Maurice  Varet					71.1600   5.25263	1	-

  43   27		   Jean  Brault					 69.9582   5.16393	5	-

  44  ---		   Eric Verkade					 69.3493   5.11899	2	-

  45  ---		   Jean  Achard					 68.6686   5.06874	4	-

  46   11		Maurice  Mestivier				  68.3596   5.04593	3	-

  47  ---		 Discoride  Lanza				   63.5014   4.68732	3	-

  48	4		 Auguste Veuillet				   58.5360   4.32080	5	-

  49  ---		  Jimmy  Jackson		 USA 34	 58.0166   4.28246	1	-

  50  ---			Jean Lucas		   F   29	 58.0094   4.28193	3	-

  51  ---			"B.  Bira"		   T   32	 57.8771   4.27217	3	1

  52  ---		  Roger  Hillier					57.6934   4.25860	1	-

  53  ---		  Pierre Flahaut					56.9974   4.20723	1	-

  54  ---		 Fernand  Bianchi				   55.3466   4.08538	1	-

  55  ---				Creuchet					54.5313   4.02520	2	-

  56  ---		   Pat  Garland					 53.3727   3.93967	3	-

  57	9		   Marcel Balsa		  F   45	 51.4919   3.80085	3	-

  58  ---		Victor-Henri Servé				  50.6961   3.74211	3	-

  59   31		 Raymond de Saugé				   50.4832   3.72639	2	-

  60  ---			Elie Bayol		   F   32	 49.8496   3.67962	1	-

  61  ---			 Ted Horn			USA 36	 49.0873   3.62335	6	-

  62   29		 Paul  Friederich				   48.3334   3.56770	2	-

  63  ---		  André Lachaize					46.4006   3.42503	2	-

  64  ---		 Peter  Whitehead		GB  32	 46.3318   3.41996	3	-

  65  ---		 Benoit Falchetto				   45.0205   3.32316	1	-

  66  ---		   Raymond Mays					 43.5504   3.21465	1	-

  67   10			Jean Ondet					  42.5991   3.14443	3	-

  68  ---			 Rex Mays			USA 33	 42.4187   3.13111	7	3

  69  ---	  Yves  Giraud-Cabantous	 F   43	 41.1520   3.03761	1	-

  70  ---		 Christian  Kautz				   41.0950   3.03341	1	-

  71  ---		 François Michaud				   39.9578   2.94947	1	-

  72   17		 Louis Villeneuve				   39.5394   2.91858	2	-

  73  ---		   Just  Vernet					 39.1416   2.88921	2	-

  74   19		   Louis Gérard		  F		  38.5685   2.84691	3	-

  75  ---		 Alberto Puigpala				   38.5287   2.84398	1	-

  76  ---		 George Abecassis		GB  33	 38.2807   2.82567	3	-

  77  ---		  Marcel Renault		 F		  38.2070   2.82023	2	-

  78  ---		   Emil  Andres		  USA 35	 38.1763   2.81797	6	-

  79   28			Jean Judet					  37.7365   2.78550	2	-

  80  ---		   Henri  Marin					 36.4228   2.68853	2	-

  81  ---		  Gaston Serraud					36.3123   2.68037	1	-

  82  ---		 David  Hampshire		GB  29	 35.8041   2.64286	4	-

  83  ---				le Gloan					34.2626   2.52908	2	-

  84  ---		  Piero  Taruffi		 I   40	 30.6313   2.26103	1	-

  85  ---	   Alexandre Constantin				 29.8373   2.20242	2	-

  86  ---		 André Chardonnet				   29.3565   2.16693	2	-

  87  ---		  Michel Roumani					28.3785   2.09474	2	-

  88  ---		  George  Connor		 USA 38	 28.3385   2.09179	7	1

  89   18		Philippe Étancelin	   F   50	 27.6733   2.04269	1	-

  90   20	   Robert-Aime Bouchard				 27.1986   2.00765	3	-

  91  ---		   Luigi  Platé					 26.7289   1.97298	2	-

  92  ---				Rigodon					 26.2340   1.93645	1	-

  93   21			Roger Dého					  26.2168   1.93518	1	-

  94  ---		   Henri Durand					 25.4924   1.88171	1	-

  95  ---		 Emmanuel Babouin				   24.9248   1.83981	1	-

  96  ---		  Guido Barbieri					24.8879   1.83709	1	-

  97  ---	  Clement-Auguste Martin				24.4614   1.80561	3	-

  98  ---		  Edmond  Mouche					24.4028   1.80128	3	-

  99  ---		   Ian  Connell					 23.4502   1.73097	1	-

 100   26		 Auguste Lachaize				   23.2335   1.71497	2	-

 101  ---				Carenna					 23.1172   1.70639	1	-

 102  ---		 Henri Marmonnier				   22.9421   1.69346	1	-

 103  ---		  Emilio  Romano		 I		  22.8306   1.68523	1	-

 104  ---		   Louis Michon					 22.7626   1.68021	1	-

 105  ---		 Philippe Verkade				   21.6350   1.59698	1	-

 106  ---		George  Bainbridge		   30	 20.3493   1.50207	2	-

 107  ---		  Robert  Ansell					19.9789   1.47473	1	-

 108  ---			René  Jeff					  19.8086   1.46216	2	-

 109  ---		   Louis Durant					 19.3389   1.42749	1	-

 110  ---			Sam  Hanks		   USA 32	 19.1604   1.41432	2	-

 111  ---		Tony  Bettenhausen	   USA 30	 18.8675   1.39270	4	1

 112  ---				Levesque					18.7585   1.38465	1	-

 113  ---			Bob Gerard		   GB  32	 18.3912   1.35754	3	-

 114   13		 Victor  Polledry				   18.2660   1.34830	1	-

 115  ---		  Pierre  Larrue					18.2190   1.34482	1	-

 116  ---			Jean Blanc					  16.9613   1.25199	1	-

 117  ---		Josef Vojlectovsky				  16.9363   1.25014	1	-

 118  ---		  Billy  de Vore					16.5072   1.21847	3	-

 119  ---			 Ugo Puma					   15.7346   1.16144	1	-

 120  ---			 "Robert"					   14.5995   1.07766	1	-

 121  ---		   Frank Wearne					 14.5041   1.07062	1	-

 122  ---				Lumachi					 14.4233   1.06465	1	-

 123  ---		 Harry Herkuleyns				   14.2694   1.05329	1	-

 124  ---		  Steve  Truchan					13.9375   1.02879	3	-

 125  ---		   Max Christen					 13.8570   1.02284	1	-

 126  ---		  Ernst Hürzeler					12.1941   0.90010	1	-

 127  ---		 Olivier  Bianchi				   12.1080   0.89375	1	-

 128  ---		 A. Benzoni-Consa				   11.8729   0.87639	1	-

 129  ---			Mauri Rose		   USA 40	 11.8651   0.87582	4	-

 130  ---			Mel Hansen		   USA		11.6033   0.85649	1	-

 131  ---		   Nello Pagani		  I   35	 11.5586   0.85319	1	-

 132  ---		 "Duke  Dinsmore"		USA 33	 11.4079   0.84207	5	-

 133  ---		   Philippe Mas					 10.9119   0.80545	1	-

 134  ---		  Bill  Sheffler					10.5485   0.77863	1	-

 135  ---		 Joaquin Palacios				   10.5078   0.77563	1	-

 136  ---		 Gabriele Lascaut				   10.2825   0.75899	1	-

 137  ---		  Serge  Pozzoli					 9.1330   0.67415	1	-

 138  ---		  Ralph  Hepburn					 8.2881   0.61178	1	-

 139  ---		  Jimmy  Wilburn					 7.3667   0.54377	2	-

 140  ---		  Bud  Bardowski					 7.3507   0.54259	4	-

 141  ---			Al  Putnam					   6.9092   0.51000	2	-

 142  ---			Duke Nalon		   USA 33	  6.8978   0.50916	2	-

 143  ---		 Russ  Snowberger					6.4222   0.47405	1	-

 144  ---		  Harry  McQuinn					 6.4063   0.47288	1	-

 145  ---		   Joe  Langley					  6.3793   0.47089	3	-

 146  ---			Hal Robson					   6.3549   0.46909	2	-

 147  ---		   Buddy  Rusch					  6.2760   0.46326	2	-

 148  ---		  Joie  Chitwood		 USA 34	  5.9177   0.43681	1	-

 149  ---		   Chet  Miller		  USA 44	  5.7412   0.42379	1	-

 150  ---		   Danny Kladis		  USA		 5.5254   0.40785	1	-

 151  ---		 George Barringer					5.4741   0.40407	2	-

 152  ---		  Cliff  Bergere					 5.2180   0.38516	1	-

 153  ---				 Breard					  5.1412   0.37950	1	-

 154  ---		  Charlie Rogers					 4.8787   0.36012	3	-

 155  ---		   Louis  Tomei					  4.8153   0.35544	2	-

 156  ---				 Louis					   4.6738   0.34500	1	-

 157  ---			Al  Miller					   4.5811   0.33815	3	-

 158  ---		   Henry  Banks		  USA 33	  4.2975   0.31722	1	-

 159  ---		   André Bossut					  4.2844   0.31625	1	-

 160  ---		  Shorty Cantlon		 USA		 4.1440   0.30589	1	-

 161  ---			Walt Brown		   USA 35	  3.9168   0.28912	1	-

 162  ---			 Hal Cole						3.6260   0.26765	1	-

 163  ---			Paul Russo		   USA 32	  3.5162   0.25954	1	-

 164  ---		Charles  van Acker	   USA		 3.3152   0.24471	1	-

 165  ---		Zora  Arkus-Duntov				   3.3018   0.24372	2	-

 166  ---		Tommy  Hinnershitz	   USA 34	  3.0535   0.22539	1	-

 167  ---				Mitchell					 2.9008   0.21412	1	-

 168  ---		  Charles Booker					 2.8741   0.21215	2	-

 169  ---		Rudolf  Caracciola	   D   45	  2.8301   0.20890	1	-

 170  ---			John  Goss		   AUS		 2.7418   0.20238	1	-

 171  ---		   Spider  Webb		  USA 36	  2.7291   0.20145	2	-

 172  ---		   Floyd  Davis		  USA		 2.6367   0.19463	1	-

 173  ---		  Bruce  Denslow					 2.5225   0.18619	1	-

 174  ---		  George Metzler					 2.5149   0.18564	2	-

 175  ---		   Lee  Wallard		  USA 36	  2.4925   0.18398	1	-

 176  ---		 Robert Arbuthnot					2.4688   0.18223	1	-

 177  ---		  Harold  Bailey					 2.4174   0.17844	1	-

 178  ---		 Eddie Casterline					2.4136   0.17816	1	-

 179  ---		 Arvol  Brunmeier					2.3680   0.17479	1	-

 180  ---		  Leslie Johnson		 GB  35	  2.3360   0.17243	1	-

 181  ---		   Jim Brubaker					  2.3207   0.17130	1	-

 182  ---			"Bud Rose"					   2.2752   0.16794	1	-

 183  ---		  Freddy  Winnai					 2.2314   0.16471	1	-

 184  ---		  Bob  Carpenter					 2.0688   0.15270	1	-

 185  ---			Bob Cowell					   1.4016   0.10346	1	-

 186  ---		  Gordon  Watson					 1.4016   0.10346	1	-

 187  ---			Walt  Ader		   USA 33	  1.1927   0.08804	1	-

 188  ---		  René Steinbach					 0.5436   0.04012	1	-

 189  ---		  Maurice  Adant					 0.3624   0.02675	1	-

 190  ---		  Desiré Boudart					 0.2718   0.02006	1	-

 191  ---			   von Kempen					0.2174   0.01605	1	-

 192  ---		   Ian  Nickols					  0.1741   0.01285	1	1

 193  ---		   Arthur Legat		  B   48	  0.1553   0.01146	1	-

 194  ---		   Hamish  Weir					  0.0870   0.00642	1	-

 195  ---			Owen Finch					   0.0580   0.00428	1	-

 196  ---		  Gerald  Sumner					 0.0435   0.00321	1	-

 197  ---		   Ian Metcalfe					  0.0348   0.00257	1	-

 198  ---		   Bobby Sumner					  0.0290   0.00214	1	-

 199  ---		 Charles Mortimer					0.0258   0.00190	1	-

 200  ---			 J. Greig						0.0249   0.00184	1	-

 201  ---		   Roy  Parnell					  0.0221   0.00163	1	-

 202  ---		   V. Patterson					  0.0218   0.00161	1	-

 203  ---		  John  Appleton					 0.0193   0.00143	1	-
I’m afraid it’s another rather long post :)! Here’s a short explanation: I did not confine myself to races run to the "International Formula" or "Formula A", as it was known by then, instead my aim is to include all races run to "the spirit of Grand Prix rules" which needs explaining: In modern times this equates to all single-seater races above "club level", but in this period that is slightly more difficult to define. Generally speaking, I try to include all International Formula, Formula Libre, Voiturette, Cyclecar and AAA Championship Car class races, if only because these are relatively exhaustively documented by the respective works of Paul Sheldon and Phil Harms. For 1946 this includes: 4 races run to 1938 Formula A rules (3000cc s/c, 4500cc u/s), 3 to 1947 rules (1500cc s/c, 4500cc u/c), 7 to various Formula Libre rules, 4 to 1938 Voiturette rules (1500cc s/c), 7 to a French Formula (1100cc s/c, 2000cc u/c), 1 to an English Formula (1100cc s/c) (all these covered by Sheldon) and 6 races run to AAA rules (identical to 1938 Formula A and covered by Harms), all in all 32 races. Additionally I would like to include races run to an Italian Formula (1100cc u/c) but as of yet I have no information available at all. There was also one Formula Libre race in Germany which was only half-official and generally regarded as a Prüfungsfahrt, not a real race as such.

The scoring is basically one point for a win, half a point for second, 1/3 for third place and so on with a coefficient arrived on by adding up the scores of all participating drivers over the last 52 weeks prior to a race. Additionally there's a rule that deducts points from the gross total using a similar formula.[p][Edited by fines on 10-03-2000]

#22 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 22:19

Would you mind, fines, posting just the first and second ranked for each year?
Love to see how it differs from the actual titles...

#23 fines

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 22:42

Well, it is still in its development phase. An earlier version gave the following top six for the years 1946-53:

Year	 First		  Second		 Third		  Fourth		 Fifth		  Sixth



1946	 Sommer		 Wimille		Villoresi	  Varzi		  Trossi		 Gordini

1947	 Wimille		Villoresi	  Chiron		 Chaboud		Rosier		 Cabantous

1948	 Wimille		Villoresi	  Farina		 Trossi		 Ascari		 Sommer

1949	 Ascari		 Villoresi	  Fangio		 Farina		 Graffenried	Étancelin

1950	 Fangio		 Farina		 Ascari		 Rosier		 Villoresi	  Fagioli

1951	 Ascari		 Fangio		 Gonzalez	   Farina		 Villoresi	  Rosier

1952	 Ascari		 Villoresi	  Farina		 Taruffi		Behra		  Gonzalez

1953	 Ascari		 Farina		 Fangio		 Hawthorn	   Graffenried	Villoresi
Never got beyond that stage, but given time I will come up with the goods...


#24 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 23:01

Sports Car events are included? I thought Fangio had his year off in 1953, yet his score is higher in that year... when was his crash at Monza?
Looks very interesting.

#25 Barry Lake

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 23:02

Because of the same problems defined by fines I always have leaned more towards including the races that are supported by the major drivers and/or teams of the era.
That is, the better supported the race, the more competitive in terms of starters, the more relevant it is.
Some races qualify in terms of "importance", distance, formula, tradition, or whatever, but have no top-line drivers, so you get some less capable drivers scoring high points without beating anyone of note.
I think of it a little bit like boxing. In order to score points you have to beat the best. I don't like to see a driver ranking highly merely because he competes in a lot of minor events, yet is soundly beaten when up against the best of the time.
One thing is certain, I have yet to see any system for 1946 that throws up a winner other than Raymond Sommer.
The same goes for 1947, 1948 and 1949. In my mind Sommer, Wimille (twice) and Ascari were worthy champions in those four years. They deserve as much credit as does, say, Farina for his 1950 world championship - and perhaps more than some "world champions" in later years who were not clearly the best of their time.
The most difficult "championships", I found, were some very early years when the best drivers sometimes did not (or only rarely did) come up against one another during the year.
Interesting also, in fines' lists is the consistently high placings of Villoresi over a number of years.

#26 jarama

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 23:06

Amazing job, Michael. Congrats.

#27 fines

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 23:34

Ray, Fangio's crash was in 1952 and Sports Car races are not included.

#28 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 October 2000 - 06:16

So my point... he was out for eleven months, so his 1953 season was shot to bits, no? Yet he scored better in 53 than 52?

#29 Marcel Schot

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Posted 04 October 2000 - 06:57

Great site fines! I'm a sucker for facts and figures, so the detailed resultsheets you have for 1974 really make me happy :) Especially the chassisnumbers and the lapcharts (too bad you don't do them for all positions, but very understandable, since it's what we call a monk's job). Can't wait to give your program a try. Tora Takagi will probably get to over 90 points per 1000 this year in Formula Nippon (9 races, 8 wins, 1 retirement I believe)[p][Edited by Marcel Schot on 10-04-2000]

#30 fines

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Posted 04 October 2000 - 15:02

Ray, the crash wasn't at the Italian GP, but at the Monza Autodrome GP in June and he was back in action in the Argentine in Jan, 1953. He did a full season's racing then.

Marcel, I am still working on a short cut to get rankings for the present time, but you have to remember this: Even 8 wins out of 9 races don't get you to the top of the ranking if you're not beating the best. That means that winning against the likes of Michael Krumm or Satoshi Motoyama is all very well, but Tora will probably rank no better than 50th or so. It gets really interesting to compare the various racing series with each other, but to get it all right is a very tedious job, I can tell you, and the 2000 ranking will take in the results of more than 300 races, with close to a thousand drivers to be ranked!

#31 Marcel Schot

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Posted 04 October 2000 - 15:24

fines : I wasn't thinking of overall 2000 rankings, I think small :) But indeed overall rankings might be very interesting to see what happens to drivers switching series, such as Johnny Herbert moving to CART next year. In the old days you had a more realistic view ofcourse, because several drivers competed in more than one series at the same time and thus having more people competing against the same people.

I'm currently thinking of applying my own ranking system I use for the simracing competition I take part in ( http://drive.to/lfrs_r ) to real F1, but since it uses all qualifying times, fastest laps and average racelaps, it's gonna be another monster job for one season alone, while I have already too many projects going on. Why am I doing this to myself? :lol:

#32 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 04 October 2000 - 20:26

As I read through this thread I realize now that there are several ways to skin the cat. I leave it to you experts and will lurk in the background.

#33 Marcel Schot

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Posted 04 October 2000 - 21:12

Several ways to skin the cat, yes. However, 1 things stands: 1946 top cat was Raymond Sommer, no doubt about it.

#34 Barry Lake

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Posted 05 October 2000 - 06:16

Originally posted by Marcel Schot
Several ways to skin the cat, yes. However, 1 things stands: 1946 top cat was Raymond Sommer, no doubt about it.


I agree

#35 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 October 2000 - 18:10

Once again I bow to your superior knowledge. Not having been watching at the time, I took it for granted that the crash was in September and that he was out for the quoted eleven months.
This thread does prove, too, that some people have too much time on their hands....

#36 fines

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 11:43

Yeah, you're right, Ray!

Damn, there's another weekend looming, what am I going to do... ?

#37 fines

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 17:21

GPChart update

Fiddling around with my surplus time ;) I just discovered and fixed a slight bug within the program, here’s the corrected top 30 for 1946:

Rank Prev			   Name			  Nat Age Net Points  Per 1000 Races Wins



   1	3		  Raymond Sommer		 F   40	940.4740  71.56987   13	5

   2	1	   Jean-Pierre  Wimille	  F   38	639.7979  48.68848	7	3

   3  ---		  Achille  Varzi		 I   42	536.5374  40.83038	4	1

   4  ---		   Carlo Trossi		  I   38	501.5223  38.16574	3	1

   5  ---		 Luigi  Villoresi		I   37	488.2848  37.15837	6	1

   6	7		  Amedée Gordini		 F   47	477.5170  36.33894	6	4

   7  ---		  "Georges Raph"		 F		 380.7659  28.97621   12	1

   8  ---		   Louis Chiron		  MC  47	377.6709  28.74067	7	-

   9	2		  Henri  Louveau		 F   36	361.8167  27.53418   12	-

  10  ---		  Tazio Nuvolari		 I   54	359.4030  27.35049	7	1

  11  ---		 Giuseppe  Farina		I   40	355.8301  27.07860	4	1

  12  ---		   José  Scaron					350.4514  26.66927	5	2

  13	5		  Eugène Chaboud		 F   39	286.6228  21.81193   13	-

  14   16		 Georges Grignard		F   41	263.1061  20.02232   11	-

  15   22		 "Pierre  Levegh"		F   41	238.9541  18.18435	6	-

  16  ---		   Enrico Platé					238.2892  18.13376	5	-

  17  ---		 Arialdo  Ruggeri				  234.2808  17.82872	9	-

  18   24		  Eugène  Martin		 F   31	223.0257  16.97221	8	1

  19  ---		  Robert  Mazaud				   207.5477  15.79433	7	-

  20   15		   René  Bonnet					187.2303  14.24818	6	-

  21  ---		 Consalvo  Sanesi		I   35	145.9695  11.10825	2	-

  22  ---		 Giorgio  Pelassa				  142.8418  10.87023	3	1

  23  ---	  Emanuel de Graffenried	 CH  32	142.4805  10.84273	6	-

  24   23	   Maurice  Trintignant	  F   29	134.9933  10.27296	7	-

  25  ---		  Taso Mathieson				   132.6161  10.09206	4	-

  26	8		  Henri Trillaud				   129.1713   9.82991	7	-

  27  ---	   Charles  de Cortanze				124.3983   9.46668	4	-

  28  ---		   Louis Rosier		  F   41	123.6266   9.40796	4	-

  29  ---		  Charles  Pozzi		 F   37	113.8596   8.66469	6	-

  30  ---		  George  Robson		 USA	+  113.1243   8.60873	3	1
Also, for interest, here’s a table with the best scoring races of the year:

Date	Race									  Formula		 Points  First		  Second		 Third



Jun 9   Coupe René LeBegue, St. Cloud			 Formula Libre   475	 Sommer		 Chiron		 Mazaud

Sep 1   Gran Premio del Valentino, Torino		 1947 Formula A  422	 Varzi		  Wimille		Sommer

Apr 22  Grand Prix de Nice						Formula Libre   411	 Villoresi	  Sommer		 Chaboud

Sep 30  Circuito di Milano						1947 Formula A  400	 Trossi		 Varzi		  Sanesi

May 13  Grand Prix de Marseille				   Formula Libre   354	 Sommer		 Platé		  Grignard

May 30  Coupe de la Résistance, Bois de Boulogne  Formula A	   336	 Wimille		Chiron		 Ruggeri

Jun 30  Grand Prix du Roussillon, Perpignan	   Formula Libre   315	 Wimille		Louveau		Raph

Jul 21  Grand Prix des Nations, Genève			Formula B	   309	 Farina		 Trossi		 Wimille

May 19  Grand Prix du Forez, St. Etienne		  Formula A	   305	 Sommer		 Louveau		Chaboud

May 13  Coupe de l'Entr'Aide Française, Marseille ACF Formula	 288	 Gordini		Martin		 Sommer

Jul 14  Grand Prix d'Albi						 Formula B	   286	 Nuvolari	   Louveau		Raph

Oct 6   Grand Prix du Salon, Bois de Boulogne	 1947 Formula A  282	 Sommer		 Raph		   Levegh

Aug 25  Circuit des Trois Villes, Lille		   Formula A	   247	 Sommer/Louveau Levegh		 Chaboud

Jun 9   Coupe du Conseil Municipal, St. Cloud	 ACF Formula	 228	 Scaron		 Bonnet		 Cortanze

Jul 28  Prix des 24 Heures du Mans, Nantes		Formula Libre   223	 Raph		   Levegh		 Rosier

Jul 28  Coupe de Nantes						   ACF Formula	 183	 Gordini		Martin		 Cortanze

Jul 7   Grand Prix de Bourgogne, Dijon			Formula Libre   176	 Wimille		Grignard	   Flahaut

Apr 22  Coupe du Palais de la Méditerranée, Nice  ACF Formula	 170	 Scaron		 Brunet		 Kneppert

Jul 7   Grand Prix de Bourgogne Voiturette, Dijon ACF Formula	 158	 Gordini		Waeffler	   Scaron

May 19  Coupe de la Ville de St. Etienne		  ACF Formula	 157	 Gordini		Bonnet		 Forestier

Oct 27  Gran Premio de Penya Rhin, Pedralbes	  Formula A	   111	 Pelassa		Basadonna	  Puigpala

May 30  Indianapolis 500						  AAA Formula	 105	 Robson		 Jackson		Horn
And here’s the effect the change has had on the other years:

Year	 First		  Second		 Third		  Fourth		 Fifth		  Sixth



1946	 Sommer		 Wimille		Varzi		  Trossi		 Villoresi	  Gordini

1947	 Wimille		Villoresi	  Chiron		 Chaboud		Rosier		 Trossi

1948	 Wimille		Villoresi	  Farina		 Trossi		 Ascari		 Sommer

1949	 Ascari		 Villoresi	  Fangio		 Farina		 Graffenried	Whitehead

1950	 Fangio		 Farina		 Ascari		 Rosier		 Villoresi	  Fagioli

1951	 Ascari		 Fangio		 Gonzalez	   Farina		 Villoresi	  Rosier

1952	 Ascari		 Villoresi	  Farina		 Taruffi		Behra		  Gonzalez

1953	 Ascari		 Farina		 Fangio		 Hawthorn	   Villoresi	  Graffenried
Not that much difference, though.


#38 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 17:35

Sommer is still the top dog.

#39 fines

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 17:42

Of course, Hans, I think that's completely out of question!

And thanks again for the South American results :)

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#40 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 08 October 2000 - 23:04

It’s a pleasure, Michael.
The Nostalgia Forum is the greatest free information exchange I know. :) :D :lol: That's why I love this site and all the people here.

Unfortunately, I spend much too much time on this site and therefore my other projects get neglected. But during my time here at TNF I learn about new Websites, unknown books and other facts, so it is definitely worth my while. Like others have said before me, our combined knowledge is tremendous when you start thinking about it.:D :up:

#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 October 2000 - 09:06

Whoa there, Hans, you're starting to quote Barry....
But seriously, there is so much to be learned from this forum, especially if you want to use the search facility and go back a bit too.
But it's only really since you came in that the really OLD stuff started to be discussed as frequently... thank you.

#42 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 09 October 2000 - 09:56

Ray,
Yes, I am primarily engrossed in GP racing up to 1949. The rest I am, honestly, not so much interested any more. I was. But probably because of so many professional people act as if GP racing had started with the onset of F1 in 1950, forgetting the 55 years prior to that, I lost inspiration. I saw my first GP at the Nürburgring in 1951 when Ascari defeated Fangio. Got hooked ever since. Still get my TV quota of 150 minutes F1 every two weeks. But the Twenties and Thirties must have been awesome in comparison to the boring race this weekend in Japan. So, that’s where my dreams wander, discovering a forgotten world which is rarely described in detail. Therefore, I assemble my own statistics and write a few of my own accounts of races. Even the stories in MotorSport don't run over 1500 words any more and pretty soon this rag will fall to the level of F1 Racing. Are there any other worthwhile rags you know about, which report about the old racing?

#43 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 October 2000 - 12:22

Well, I don't know if you'd agree or not, but I think the stories I write for Motor Racing Australia are worth reading... Barry does some too... maybe this 'rag' could be worth a look.
But it is also packed out with much coverage of the whims and stupidity of the V8 Touring Car racing farce...

#44 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 09 October 2000 - 12:58

Ray,
We have some first class book stores here with large magazine stands but they only carry AutoSport, MotorSport and F1 Magazine, but nothing from Austalia. I had cancelled my subscription to On Track and AUTOWEEK three years ago, when I hooked up to the internet. Does your publisher ship to Honolulu or do you have a website for your mag, where I could check it out?

#45 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 October 2000 - 13:11

I don't think there is a website, actually. You could no doubt get it on subscription, but it might be too dear for the small amount of content you would want to read.
What do you think, Barry?

#46 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 05 January 2001 - 08:20

This thread has been sleeping long enough. I have dug it out from the 'basement' in the hope that some of the newer members or juniors might enjoy reading it.

#47 Egon Thurner

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 15:11

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
In this setting with all kinds of logistical problems, 18 Formula Libre races for grand prix cars were staged in 1946. Since no championship was in place, these events were more or less equal of importance (or weren't they? Therefore,) for my own statistics, I determined the more important races from the 18 events and found seven, which I consider the major races: Nice GP - Marseille GP – St. Cloud GP - Albi GP – GP des Nations - Turin GP - Milan GP.

...

Since this is such a controversial issue, I would like to hear the thoughts from everybody. What do YOU think? Please let me know, which grand prix races would YOU consider as major events in 1946?

I needed two years to find a solution, that looks much more 'logical' - at least to me. So please tell me, what you think about it:

Racing was started again in France, with a great enthusiasm. In 1946 they tried to run some GP-like events. This events had been Nice - Marseille - Forez - Coupe de Paris (Resistance) - St. Cloud - Perpignant (Roussillion) - Nantes - Trois Villes - Salon. Organizers had to decide a 'Formula' and the potential french competers most had unblown cars available from 3.0 up to 4.7 litres. So most of the organizers decided an upper limit of 4.5 or 5.0 litres for unblown cars, adding the old pre-war GP-category of 3.0-litres supercarged cars. Only for the Salon-race the predicted new Formula A was used. Therefor, I wouldn't say, that the listed races had been 'Formula Libre races'. This races all had a pure french-national character. The fact, that some 'foreign' entrants took part as regulars (it had been just a handfull), does not change anything for me. All this races were no main races in the sense of Hans' list for the years until 1939 and from 1947 to 1949!

The races in Albi and Geneve were organized just like before the war - as international voiturette-races . They had no GP-character at the time being ! Remember, the old GP-formula was 4500/3000 and Formula A was not existant at the time. Sure, some competers of the 'GP-like french races' with their 1500 s/c cars also took part in this 'voiturette-races'. But that fact doesn't lift them up to a 'Grand Prix-level'. Now you will mention, that voiturettes in 1946 were cars up to 2000(u/s) or 1100(s/c) cc. Really? Well, not really - that was just a series of french 'petite cylindrees'-races, adopting the former cyclecars and adding the existant 2-litre sportscars. That really was no Voiturette-formula - at least not for me. So also Geneve was no 'main race' in the sense of Hans' list for the years until 1939 and from 1947 to 1949! Just a very, very important international voiturette-race, and for sure the very first international race after the war.

Then came the first race, already for the predicted new Formula A: Torino. This is - in my opinion - the first main race of the year 1946 - and the only one! The following Milano-race was a short affair with two qualification-heats and for sure no 'main race'. Penya Rhin then following, international, no doubt, but was also no 'main race', if you have a short look into the entry-list.

That had been 14 races now, but Hans Hans mentioned '18 Formula Libre races', probably with a look at Sheldons 1946-list. Frontieres and Dijon look like true Formula Libre races, but from very little importance. Ulster Trophy was a british '1500', comparable to the above mentioned voiturette-races, but in a national sense. The Grandsen-races? Hard to fill in, but so short in length and time, that they had no big importance, just make something going on again.

Rewriting history? Not at all, just some thoughts, how it could have been. What do you think about ?