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Ultimate for Toro Rosso


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#1 juary

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:39

According to some rumours reported on:

http://www.italiarac...?id=19452&cat=1

The deal between Barry Walsh and Toro rosso is already done...

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#2 dank

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:49

Just this second finished reading a Q&A with Seb Vettel on the Formula1.com website where he says:

Q: The team’s future is still somewhat unclear…
SV: I know a little bit of the internal situation so I am very confident. My focus is only for this year and so I don’t have any concerns.


So maybe the two stories are linked? Or maybe Seb is referring to his shoe-in at Red Bull when DC retires?

#3 juary

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:56

Originally posted by dank
Just this second finished reading a Q&A with Seb Vettel on the Formula1.com website where he says:

So maybe the two stories are linked? Or maybe Seb is referring to his shoe-in at Red Bull when DC retires?


Probably both...because Vettel is going easily to Red Bul, and the new deal Ultimate-Toro Rosso will be probably ready for Silversone

#4 noikeee

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 11:04

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/68188

Ultimate took their first ever victories in F3 at Snetterton last weekend.


Sounds like a very good candidate for running an F1 team then. :

#5 AFCA

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 11:18

I don't see it happening...(see last two posts)

http://forums.autosp...855#post3170855

#6 Lukin83

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 11:56

Originally posted by paranoik0
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/68188


I must admit I like their approach:

"The aim is to have the whole structure, with the academy from karting, through Formula Three and the World Series, and Formula One at the top."

I doubt it is their goal but in the long term they could be an Ajax Amsterdam of racing - training young drivers, giving them an experience and then selling to other teams and series.

#7 roadie

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 12:18

Funding from an Angolan oil company? Doesn't sound too stable...

#8 Jodum5

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 13:37

Being that Angola is now Africa's largest oil producer they (Sonangol) can certainly afford it. I think it's a bad idea simply because I don't see what they gain from being a primary backer of an F1 team.

#9 noikeee

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 14:41

Originally posted by Lukin83
I must admit I like their approach: I doubt it is their goal but in the long term they could be an Ajax Amsterdam of racing - training young drivers, giving them an experience and then selling to other teams and series.


That would be really cool, but is it a realistic goal? Doubt it.

#10 ensign14

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 14:44

Originally posted by Jodum5
Being that Angola is now Africa's largest oil producer they (Sonangol) can certainly afford it. I think it's a bad idea simply because I don't see what they gain from being a primary backer of an F1 team.

Publicity. After all, as this thread points out, all people know about Angola is it has had a civil war. People have forgotten the World Cup already.

#11 AFCA

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 14:45

Originally posted by Lukin83


I must admit I like their approach: I doubt it is their goal but in the long term they could be an Ajax Amsterdam of racing - training young drivers, giving them an experience and then selling to other teams and series.


:)

#12 Josta

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 14:51

Originally posted by Jodum5
Being that Angola is now Africa's largest oil producer they (Sonangol) can certainly afford it. I think it's a bad idea simply because I don't see what they gain from being a primary backer of an F1 team.


You don't see what an oil company can gain by being associated with F1? Do you really not see the connection?

Sonangol is expanding, and has subsiduaries that can be marketed in banking and telecoms as well as it's oil business.

#13 Anders Torp

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:16

Originally posted by Josta


You don't see what an oil company can gain by being associated with F1? Do you really not see the connection?
Sonangol is expanding, and has subsiduaries that can be marketed in banking and telecoms as well as it's oil business.


It's a state owned company in one of the most corrupt countries in the world with one-party rule, no elections since 1992 and a president who's been in power since 1979. Life expectancy is 38 years.

A perfect match for F1.

#14 Keffo

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:44

Originally posted by Lukin83


I must admit I like their approach: I doubt it is their goal but in the long term they could be an Ajax Amsterdam of racing - training young drivers, giving them an experience and then selling to other teams and series.

Ajax! :cool:

#15 Josta

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:45

Originally posted by Anders Torp


It's a state owned company in one of the most corrupt countries in the world with one-party rule, no elections since 1992 and a president who's been in power since 1979. Life expectancy is 38 years.

A perfect match for F1.


It is a perfect match for F1. It is oil which is pretty important to F1. If you are talking about associations, then there is also Angola LNG which is Sonangol in association with BP, Chevron, Total and ENI.

It is also a partially state owned company.

If you want to disassociate F1 with nasty regimes, then we need to immediately get rid of the Chinese and Malaysian GP's before you start looking at sponsors or team investors.

But of course, the original point was "why does Sonangol want to be associated with F1", not "does F1 want Sonangol". As I stated, Sonengal is going global with more than just oil. Owning a team can enable large scale advertising for their oil, banking and telecommunications businesses. That is a pretty big incentive for them.

#16 Anders Torp

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:24

Originally posted by Josta

But of course, the original point was "why does Sonangol want to be associated with F1", not "does F1 want Sonangol". As I stated, Sonengal is going global with more than just oil. Owning a team can enable large scale advertising for their oil, banking and telecommunications businesses. That is a pretty big incentive for them.


I'm sure Sonangol has got what it takes to make it in F1 and that they will be very successful worldwide in banking and telecommunications also. State owned companies in corrupt countries with one-party rule are after all often very well managed.

#17 Josta

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 21:02

Originally posted by Anders Torp


I'm sure Sonangol has got what it takes to make it in F1 and that they will be very successful worldwide in banking and telecommunications also. State owned companies in corrupt countries with one-party rule are after all often very well managed.


But the question is why do you find this worse than the fact that Bernie has allowed a GP in China and Malaysia? These are 2 nations with terrible human rights and they bankroll the GP's.

#18 kamix

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 01:27

The real question is do these guys have the capibility to build two race cars and assorted parts? Why would you buy STR when they don't have a car lined up next year and no way of building one?

#19 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 01:29

Originally posted by kamix
The real question is do these guys have the capibility to build two race cars and assorted parts? Why would you buy STR when they don't have a car lined up next year and no way of building one?


I would expect Toro Rosso to be able to build a car.

:cool:

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#20 kamix

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 01:42

With no RBR backing? I'm not sure anyone knows how much equipment and resources the team shares. DM had planned for a while to sell the Italian side of the team at the end of this year and build and run both teams in England. Now with the customer row they are going to drop STR and cut ties - I assume the better staff will be moving to the UK.

Minardi has not manufactured their own car for what, 10 years? STR was using RBR designers, materials, resources etc. It's nothing like buying Jordan or Sauber IMO and very messy.

#21 Nathan

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 02:14

Originally posted by Jodum5
Being that Angola is now Africa's largest oil producer they (Sonangol) can certainly afford it. I think it's a bad idea simply because I don't see what they gain from being a primary backer of an F1 team.

Same reason for the UAEs interest.

#22 ezequiel

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 17:12

Originally posted by Anders Torp


It's a state owned company in one of the most corrupt countries in the world with one-party rule, no elections since 1992 and a president who's been in power since 1979. Life expectancy is 38 years.

A perfect match for F1.


Think about what Exxon Mobil has done in the mid-east and you will have an answer

EDIT: Oh, and Barry Walsh is expecting to control the team from 2010. Of course if there's and agreement with Red Bull it could be this year, but that does not mean Ultimate will take control right now. In the beginning, Red Bull will definitely leave at the end of 2009, so the change to Ultimate will be somewhat progressive. And Berger still ownes the other half, so it will be an Ultimate-Berger team.

#23 Anders Torp

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 16:10

Gerhard Berger, July 3rd:
All those recent rumours about 'buyers' are nonsense. We have not had any serious discussion. Forget all the names that appeared in those stories.



#24 Fatgadget

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 16:59

^^ He (Berger) goes further to say he will only be interested in having talks with a motor manufacturer.
Begs the question which other motor manufacturer is remotely interested in the bottomless money pit that is F1?

#25 noikeee

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 17:02

Lada?

#26 IOU 16

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 17:43

Sounds like Gelles Racing from the US junior levels. Came on in 2005 with Formula BMW. They expanded in 2006 to Atlantics and scored a win, and were planning a move to Champ Car in 2007, but they lost investors and sponsors and ran a few FBMW and Atlantics races before shutting down.