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Starting new team: Hamilton or Kubica ??


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Poll: Starting new team: Hamilton or Kubica ?? (268 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Hamilton (75 votes [27.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.99%

  2. Kubica (193 votes [72.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 72.01%

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#1 Bogs

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:12

I'm curious to see what people think!

If you were starting a new team today, and had the choice of Hamilton or Kubica for your team, who would you pick and why?

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#2 mursuka80

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:17

Originally posted by Bogs
I'm curious to see what people think!

If you were starting a new team today, and had the choice of Hamilton or Kubica for your team, who would you pick and why?


Keke ;)

#3 giacomo

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:17

Kubica seems more balanced, both as a driver and as a person.

#4 mursuka80

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:20

i see another Lewis bashfest coming.Confess ;) you started this for that reason

#5 rce

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:24

Kubica - same reasons as giacomo.

#6 Ian Stewart

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:25

Kubica.

He is, after all, Pole-ish. :D

#7 F1 Tor.

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:29

Robert really does come across as being genuine, steady and very fast, so I'd have to go with him. :wave:

#8 BMW_F1

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:31

Kubica, he is equally talented and I like his personality more..

#9 stevvy1986

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:33

kubica,same reasons as the others gave

#10 kikanny

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:34

Another vote for Kubica. Same reasons as above ^^

#11 se7en_24

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:34

The results of this pole will be determined by the following criteria:

1. You are a Hamilton or Mclaren Fan so you will vote for Hamilton
2. You are not a Hamilton or Mclaren fan, therefore you will vote for the driver that has beaten your driver/team the least - Kubica

#12 Bogs

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:36

Actually, I did not start this as a Hami bash. I was just curious if people shared my opinion.

#13 SlateGray

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:39

RK all the way

I never liked him at first because he took over the seat at Sauber BMW from my fav Jacques Villeneuve, but after watching him for sometime I must say I am very impressed.

#14 hobbes

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:41

I think that Hamilton might be more talented than Kubica (my opinion) but maybe more error prone. However i dislike Hamilton so i would go for Kubica

#15 Jodum5

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:43

I went with Kubica.

#16 BootLace

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 17:47

I don't think there's enough difference in their potential speed for that to be a factor, and whilst I prefer Kubica's perceived personality, I suspect Hamilton is worth significantly more in terms of sponsorship/merchandising and my new team needs all the financing it can get until I'm ready to fight for the championship.

#17 Bogs

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:04

I wasn't really thinking of a personality difference, but was thinking more about talent and consitency.

I was very impressed by Hami's start last season. He showed some true pace. His attitude I really didn't care for, but if he could back it up with his driving, I really didn't see a problem with it. His PR is definitely worth more than Kubica's - at the moment anyways. However, he has had more errors than he should have. To me it's difficult to judge if there is any difference in pace between the two, but because Kubica is almost error free, I would choose Kubica.

I really didn't mean this to be a Hami bashing. I was hoping to hear some arguments for Hami.

But I realize now that this may turn out to be a Pro Hami vs Against Hami thing...which is not what I intended.

#18 gaston_foix

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:04

I dont like Hamm but overall i think he is a better driver than Kubica. Anyway, still waiting for a race from both drivers when at the end i will say: WOOOW masterclass driving.

#19 MaxScelerate

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:07

I'd take Hamilton, but only on the basis that, being new, I want loads of media attention. :smoking:

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#20 Orin

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:11

Firstly, I'd pick both if I could. :p

Otherwise, Hamilton, because he's shown balls out overtaking moves already in his short career that have matched the best of Raikkonen and Alonso. Kubica's very good, but we've not seen anything other than a very fast and efficient driver so far.

#21 HoldenRT

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:14

Kubica for a few reasons.. 1, he's had to earn the car he has now. Started off with a car that could sometimes do well but sometimes miss out on points. It was similar to the postion Piquet or Heiki were with Renault. 2. He's very fast. Always has been from his first race, Same with Lewis as well, let's call this one a draw. 3. He's leading the championship in the third best car. He's been very consistant and very quick both in qualifying and the races. 4. He's more balanced like someone else said. Also he's not trying to be Schumacher or Senna, he's just trying to do a good job and is accomplishing his goal. 5. I am an English speaker and in the English speaking world its all Lewis Lewis Lewis. Kubica isn't thought of or hyped as much and this makes him more likable. That's not Lewis's fault at all but it is what it is.

#22 HoldenRT

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:20

Originally posted by Orin
Otherwise, Hamilton, because he's shown balls out overtaking moves already in his short career that have matched the best of Raikkonen and Alonso. Kubica's very good, but we've not seen anything other than a very fast and efficient driver so far.

I'm not going to disagree with that. But for me overtaking doesn't make a good or bad driver. It makes an entertaining driver like JPM. I will give example..

Last year at Indy Fisi spun off on lap 1 or 2 and dropped back to last. He then stormed back through the backmarkers and did some entertaining overtakings on the likes of Wurz Button and Luizzi. Heiki in comparison did a solid race up the front. After the race most people thought Fisi had done a great race, but the results said Heiki 5th and Fisi with no points because of his error that gave him the opportunity to pass the slower cars.

Also at Canada, Kubica overtook his teammate knowing that a crash into each other (which in 06 and 07 they were notorious for) would be a huge disaster. It's debateable how much Nick yeilded or not. He definately didn't block alot but Kubica still had to get the move done. I don't remember either Kimi or Massa or Alonso or Lewis overtaking their teammate on track for victory last year. But then again it was only one overtake and it's probably fair that Lewis is more aggressive and a better overtaker overall.

#23 pingu666

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:28

lewis and sato, full on all action team :D

safe option, rob and nick :eek:

#24 gaston_foix

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:30

Originally posted by Orin
Firstly, I'd pick both if I could. :p

Otherwise, Hamilton, because he's shown balls out overtaking moves already in his short career that have matched the best of Raikkonen and Alonso. Kubica's very good, but we've not seen anything other than a very fast and efficient driver so far.


90% Agree with u. But Hamm won races only when his car was the best in those races. I want to see a win for him that will make me to say WOOOW.
KR has a Bahrein 2006, a Suzuka 2005 etc. Great performances
FA has a Hungary 2003,2006,Suzuka 2005 etc and a whole season 2006.

#25 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:32

I would take Bob because I think in equal cars Bob would accumulate more points over a season than Lewis.

#26 karlth

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:39

Originally posted by se7en_24
The results of this pole will be determined by the following criteria:

1. You are a Hamilton or Mclaren Fan so you will vote for Hamilton
2. You are not a Hamilton or Mclaren fan, therefore you will vote for the driver that has beaten your driver/team the least - Kubica


I think that sums it up nicely.

#27 supersato

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:40

A vote for Kuby here :clap:

#28 Buttoneer

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:41

Kubica because Hamilton comes with James Allen.

#29 giacomo

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:41

Originally posted by BootLace
I don't think there's enough difference in their potential speed for that to be a factor, and whilst I prefer Kubica's perceived personality, I suspect Hamilton is worth significantly more in terms of sponsorship/merchandising and my new team needs all the financing it can get until I'm ready to fight for the championship.

That's indeed a good point I forgot to consider.

#30 kayemod

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:54

Originally posted by se7en_24
The results of this pole will be determined by the following criteria:

1. You are a Hamilton or Mclaren Fan so you will vote for Hamilton
2. You are not a Hamilton or Mclaren fan, therefore you will vote for the driver that has beaten your driver/team the least - Kubica


You're wrong there, I'm a lifelong McLaren fan right from their orange days, but I think we're only just starting to see what Kubica is capable of. No question about Hamilton's talent, but I think Kubica is just as good, and he's a far more balanced personality, Lewis seems to think he's in some branch of showbiz. Also, I respect Kubica for having the temerity not to compare himself with past greats like Senna, or at least not yet.

#31 Perigee

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:55

Kubica.

Hamilton has a contract for next year; Kubica, I believe, does not.

And he isn't from Stevenage ;)


Originally posted by Buttoneer
Kubica because Hamilton comes with James Allen.

I fear you've just described James' Allen's favourite fantasy there...

#32 DarthWillie

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 18:58

I'd want them both :clap:

#33 cartman

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:21

Why not both? :)

But if i had to take just one i take Kubica.

#34 cartman

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:23

Btw result of the poll like that is expected after what happened in Canada:)
It would be reversed if Kubica chrashed and Hamy won:)

#35 BunnyK

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:25

Can't vote yet, haven't seen Kubica under pressure, both look very fast and this year don't have to deal with a tough teammate.

s!

#36 Bogs

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:32

Originally posted by cartman
Btw result of the poll like that is expected after what happened in Canada:)
It would be reversed if Kubica chrashed and Hamy won:)


Agreed, had Kubica not won, you would have probably a more balanced vote. However, Kubica has been there all year in the 3rd best car.

#37 BMW_F1

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:35

Originally posted by BunnyK
Can't vote yet, haven't seen Kubica under pressure, both look very fast and this year don't have to deal with a tough teammate.

s!


you can't really say that about Heidfeld. Last year he had Kubica covered when this was struggling with setup issues. I think they are almost equally fast but this year Kubica has the edge in qualifying and Nick setup problems in Q.

#38 Bogs

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:46

Last year Kubica had problems with he race engineer and the TC that affected his braking - that was his problem. On top of that he had some really bad luck with reliability and some BS calls against him by the race stuards.

Nick is saying he has tire warm up issues simply becaues Kubica is comfortable in the car and himself is not having issues - and is therefore spanking Nick's bottom.

What else is Nick going to say? "Damn I suck compared to Kubica"?

After P3 in Canada, BMW was talking like Nick's qualifying issues were behind him. Also, the track was hot, so the tires would get warm, and he could do more than one qualifying lap on the same tires. So what happened? Kubica kicked Nick's ass again.

Now they are going to give Nick a full day of testing to try to fix his "tire" issues.

This should mean that Nick will out-qualify Robert in France! Right?

I wouldn't bet on it!

#39 Andy35

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:50

What budget do we have?

Regards

Andy

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#40 BMW_F1

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 19:51

Originally posted by Bogs
Last year Kubica had problems with he race engineer and the TC that affected his braking - that was his problem. On top of that he had some really bad luck with reliability and some BS calls against him by the race stuards.

Nick is saying he has tire warm up issues simply becaues Kubica is comfortable in the car and himself is not having issues - and is therefore spanking Nick's bottom.

What else is Nick going to say? "Damn I suck compared to Kubica"?

After P3 in Canada, BMW was talking like Nick's qualifying issues were behind him. Also, the track was hot, so the tires would get warm, and he could do more than one qualifying lap on the same tires. So what happened? Kubica kicked Nick's ass again.

Now they are going to give Nick a full day of testing to try to fix his "tire" issues.

This should mean that Nick will out-qualify Robert in France! Right?

I wouldn't bet on it!


I just don't think their gap is that big really.. similar to what we have with Kimi/Massa .. any little thing that offsets their liking for the handling of the car will skew their lap times by a few tenths.. during the races when Nick appears to be fully comfortable with the tires he is equally fast as Kubica.. However I do think Kubica is a better driver ... I would chose him over Nick.

#41 4MEN

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 20:15

Robert has had a more difficult career than Hamilton. He deserves my respect.

#42 nada12

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 20:23

Rosberg.

Interesting results so far, I guess the saying "you're only as good as your last race" is applicable here.

#43 Ricardo F1

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 20:36

Hamilton by a country mile. You can argue a toss about whose "more balanced" or "faster" or whatever - but basically that's all bullshit based on bias. Hamilton would bring in a ton more sponsorship than Robert (for now) can even dream of. If you were to start a team today that's far more important than any minor differences in their driving ability.

#44 kayemod

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 20:37

Originally posted by BMW_F1


I just don't think their gap is that big really.. similar to what we have with Kimi/Massa .. any little thing that offsets their liking for the handling of the car will skew their lap times by a few tenths.. during the races when Nick appears to be fully comfortable with the tires he is equally fast as Kubica.. However I do think Kubica is a better driver ... I would chose him over Nick.


True, there's not a great deal in it, though I'm sure that Kubica is still improving and we haven't seen the best yet, while we've everything that Heidfeld has to offer. Good drivers both, but Kubica definitely has the edge.

#45 jesee

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 20:50

Purely from the financial point of view, i would have to say hamilton. I saw in another thread the viewing figures for montreal on ITV just before and after the pitstop incident and hopely iam allowed to quote them again here:

BY DAMO_F1

Working in the profession I do, I have daily access to all TV viewing figures going back 5 years.

I always look at the races (in 5 min intervals) and yesterdays did ok - peaking at 5.9 million. Which isn't bad bearing in mind it was 27 degrees outside. Although look at the drop off after the pit lane collision (I reckon it was at about 18:30?)

1830 - 5.9m
1835 - 3.1m
1840 - 2.8m
1845 - 2.9m

Notice the huge drop in viewings after the accident and hami is out of contention.

That may explain why, as a business, ITV would be nuts not to milk the cash cow that is LH.

Have a look at the breakdown for Brazil 07. If we have a similar end of season showpiece again - pretty much half the country will probably sit down for it (this doesn't include pub viewing). It is a phenomenal uplift for the the sport. In the Schumacher doldrum days (I say doldrum from a TV viewing POV) we had a low of 600,000 for one race. Thats less than The Gadget Show on FIVE!

These figures below really show why ITV1 did not give F1 up lightly. Incidentally, the peak of 12.9m beat the Man Utd v Chelsea game by 1m - although the millions in pubs will skew this.

Brazil 08 - BARB Data:

1705 - 8551 (000's)
1710 - 7827
1715 - 8249
1720 - 8362
1725 - 7829
1730 - 8833
1735 - 8861
1740 - 8999
1745 - 8575
1750 - 9161
1755 - 9901
1800 - 10120
1805 - 10330
1810 - 10990
1815 - 11312
1820 - 12913
1825 - 11323
1830 - 11544
1835 - 11344


This shows the guy has some huge pulling power....what advertisers want. Silverstone is already a sell-out and even practice and qualifying tickets are running out fast. You just have to look at the threads here and their length talking of hamilton...whether positive or negative but the issue is he is the talking point even in other forums.

Also on pure race terms and looking at their careers in junior level, hamilton seems to have had a slight edge over kubica. Definately if i was to pick the most exciting drivers at the moment...it has to be kubi, lewis and alonso.

#46 beanoid

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 20:57

Bob, because I think their driving talent is about equal, but Bob seems like a much easier personality to manage.

#47 SlateGray

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 21:14

Originally posted by jesee
Notice the huge drop in viewings after the accident and hami is out of contention.


Kimi, the WDC leader at the time, was also out, but I guess it is always about Hamilton :rolleyes:

#48 undersquare

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 21:17

Everybody loves an underdog. Wait till Kubi has some success for a while then see how the knives come out!

I would have Hammy, on balance I think he'd be more loyal to the team. Also I know he's ultra-fast whereas I only suspect Kubi is. However Kubi is the only other driver with similar commitment to Hammy, I wouldn't be disappointed if I ended up with him.

I think naturally people's view of Hammy's mistakes is coloured by the consequences and the team mistakes that went with them. Last year he hardly made a mistake except going off in the deluge in Nurburgring, losing the back end slightly in the damp with canvas for tread, and running onto the hard runoff and losing 4 seconds in Brazil. So I think he can take pressure as well as anyone.

Also we haven't seen Kubi under real pressure yet, he's still on the way up, not too much expectation.

#49 BMW_F1

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 21:19

those stats are only representative in the UK.. In Brazil for example which has a much bigger audience the number would drop not when Lewis retires but when Massa does..Are we forgetting F1 is global.. ?

#50 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 21:24

both of them!
if i had to chose only one i would go for hamilton though. i like kubica more as a person, but i've seen hamilton perform (both professional and mental) against alonso. while kubica could do it (or even better), i would take lewis as a sure/safe bet