Jump to content


Photo

should f1 have spotters?


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

Poll: should f1 have spotters? (89 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. yes (15 votes [16.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.85%

  2. no (47 votes [52.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.81%

  3. aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh no american racing idea (19 votes [21.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.35%

  4. i wanna bash some driver damnit (8 votes [8.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.99%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,739 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:56

with the current spate of incidents, should the teams now employ spotters, that are used in nascar/indycar etc?

a spotter is someone(s) who sits up in a area with a good view and talks to the driver about whats going on of those scared of american racing ;)

Advertisement

#2 JForce

JForce
  • Member

  • 13,840 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:13

There's no need, and drivers should know what's going on around them. If they don't, they aren't good enough to be out there.

#3 Rob G

Rob G
  • Member

  • 10,898 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:24

Heck no. Spotters may be necessary on ovals, but never on road courses.

#4 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,019 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:28

You mean they don't?

They have telemetry, strategy, every possible technical advantage. Yet the teams can't spare a few people to oversee crucial parts of the track and advise of the movement of other cars?

OK, sure, whatever, Messrs. "Pinnacle of Motorsport."

How about a backup camera and a tiny diagram of the track with colored circles representing the position of each car built into a HUD on the visor? Individual gaps shown via eye movement.

SOMEthing has got to be better than relying on mirrors which are universally panned as nigh on useless.

#5 tahadar

tahadar
  • Member

  • 499 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:33

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
You mean they don't?

They have telemetry, strategy, every possible technical advantage. Yet the teams can't spare a few people to oversee crucial parts of the track and advise of the movement of other cars?

OK, sure, whatever, Messrs. "Pinnacle of Motorsport."

How about a backup camera and a tiny diagram of the track with colored circles representing the position of each car built into a HUD on the visor? Individual gaps shown via eye movement.

SOMEthing has got to be better than relying on mirrors which are universally panned as nigh on useless.


i recall sato having a spotter for a race when he started further down the grid than usual in his fast-starting honda a few years back ('04?)

#6 A Wheel Nut

A Wheel Nut
  • Member

  • 4,739 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:34

Spotters wouldn't have helped in any of the incidents that occured in the last two races.

#7 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,739 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:58

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
Spotters wouldn't have helped in any of the incidents that occured in the last two races.


erm?
lewis, pit exit is closed, pit exit is closed

david, car on inside, car on inside

nick, i think alonso likes you too much

;)

mirrors arent that great, and with the high cockpit sides, they just cant see 3/4 view...

#8 A Wheel Nut

A Wheel Nut
  • Member

  • 4,739 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 12 June 2008 - 03:10

Originally posted by pingu666


erm?
lewis, pit exit is closed, pit exit is closed

david, car on inside, car on inside

nick, i think alonso likes you too much

;)

mirrors arent that great, and with the high cockpit sides, they just cant see 3/4 view...

Bah! In true forum style, I deny ever making such a statment in light of it proving me wrong.

#9 ray b

ray b
  • Member

  • 2,564 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 12 June 2008 - 03:30

MAYBE

BUT unless you put them in a chopper
and then fear choppers crashing
you are going to need a bunch of them

Q can the teams see their own in car camera shots?
or does that just go to the TV guys

maybe if they had control of in car camera switching and 3 or 4 cameras
in each car
feeding to the spotter the needed info

#10 rookie

rookie
  • Member

  • 416 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 12 June 2008 - 03:36

Originally posted by tahadar


i recall sato having a spotter for a race when he started further down the grid than usual in his fast-starting honda a few years back ('04?)


I think that was Jock Clear (engineer) who picked up a few of JVs Indy Habits. JV must of liked it, but it didnt sound helpful on tv.......maybe that was Sato's problem...he didnt seem that radical once he left BAR.

Potential version of sato and spotter at spa 05 - "get closer taku, schumacher ahead, go for it, get closer, down the inside, inside clear, inside clear, rear wing in front, rear wing in front, too close......watch out, michael out of car and approaching, coming right at you....hes tapping you on the helmet, the helmet, tapping you on the helmet.

#11 fastlegs

fastlegs
  • Member

  • 1,955 posts
  • Joined: April 02

Posted 12 June 2008 - 03:41

Originally posted by pingu666


erm?
lewis, pit exit is closed, pit exit is closed

david, car on inside, car on inside

nick, i think alonso likes you too much

;)

mirrors arent that great, and with the high cockpit sides, they just cant see 3/4 view...


How about;

Spotter: Lewis, Kimi and Kubica are stopped ahead of you waiting for green pitt light.

Spotter: Lewis, STOP! You're going to hit Kimi.

Spotter: WTF were you thinking Lewis?

#12 Hacklerf

Hacklerf
  • Member

  • 2,333 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:39

even split on the poll, for now :smoking:

#13 Owen

Owen
  • Member

  • 10,500 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:43

WTF is a spotter meant to do? I'm lost.

#14 Perigee

Perigee
  • Member

  • 895 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:43

Originally posted by pingu666


erm?
lewis, pit exit is closed, pit exit is closed


;)

mirrors arent that great, and with the high cockpit sides, they just cant see 3/4 view...


Lewis WAS told by the team.

#15 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 9,999 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:44

I don't see how it would be practical. A spotter on American ovals sees the entire circuit. I can't think of an F1 track where this would be possible, unless they were relying on rearward-facing cameras on the cars.

#16 F1Fanatic.co.uk

F1Fanatic.co.uk
  • Member

  • 1,725 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 12 June 2008 - 08:54

Didn't BAR try one with Takuma Sato a few years ago?

In F1 Racing a while ago Peter Windsor suggested one might have helped Robert Kubica know about the oil on the track at the start of the Bahrain Grand Prix. He's probably right, although in F1 I expect you'd need several of them at some tracks (especially Spa).

#17 The July Plot

The July Plot
  • Member

  • 482 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:05

Originally posted by tahadar


i recall sato having a spotter for a race when he started further down the grid than usual in his fast-starting honda a few years back ('04?)

Was it the Chinese GP of 2006? I remember it as well, his engineer was saying to him "car left..car right etc" lol.

#18 wingwalker

wingwalker
  • Member

  • 6,326 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:08

eh.. a spotter on a road track would rely soley on information from camera's and telemetry and timing and gps positioning of other cars.. exactly what the guys at the pitwall are doing. Cause they can't physically look at the car, it ain't oval.

#19 roadie

roadie
  • Member

  • 1,844 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 12 June 2008 - 10:14

Sato's race engineer helped him out on some of the race starts. I think Monaco was one of them.

However, on the topic of spotters, the guys in the pits have screens which show exactly where on the track all the cars are. They can tell the drivers on the radio if there is someone behind them. I guess all the guys have enough experience that they know what to do in those situations most of the time.

Advertisement

#20 pRy

pRy
  • Member

  • 10,920 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 12 June 2008 - 10:38

Originally posted by Perigee


Lewis WAS told by the team.


Was he told there was a red light at the end of the pitlane or was he told to watch out for a red light at the end of the pitlane? I'd say theres a big difference between the two instructions. One tells you the pit lane is closed, the other tells you it might be closed but check for yourself when you get to the end of the pitlane. By which point Lewis was looking at two cars side by side at the end of the pit lane, probably thinking "Whos that.. is it Kimi.. what's going on there then.... *smash*"

#21 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 12 June 2008 - 10:45

Originally posted by pingu666
with the current spate of incidents, should the teams now employ spotters, that are used in nascar/indycar etc?

a spotter is someone(s) who sits up in a area with a good view and talks to the driver about whats going on of those scared of american racing ;)


I dont see how a spotter could have avoided the incident in the pit.... the team already told Hamilton about the light at the end of the PL.

It was just very unfortunate... he was too close behind the leaders... and watching the cars in front obviously...

I wonder if cars entering the pitlane should have brakelights activated.... (only in case they are stopping abrubtly in the pit lane... and also a light for reverse

#22 tifosi

tifosi
  • Member

  • 13,279 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 12 June 2008 - 11:14

Originally posted by pingu666


erm?
lewis, pit exit is closed, pit exit is closed


So you're saying if a spotter had told him the pit exit was closed versus his pit screaming it in his ear, he would have paid attention???

#23 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,876 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 12 June 2008 - 11:21

No.

#24 Crazy Ninja

Crazy Ninja
  • Member

  • 1,370 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 12 June 2008 - 12:19

Originally posted by pingu666


erm?
lewis, pit exit is closed, pit exit is closed

david, car on inside, car on inside

nick, i think alonso likes you too much

;)

mirrors arent that great, and with the high cockpit sides, they just cant see 3/4 view...


Thats DC's fault for trying to decapitate Wurz! :mad: jus kiddin

Imo it wouldnt be a great idea. Someone coming onto the radio, while you're about to turn into the apex, telling you theres someone on the inside, would probably just cause them to turn laway from the apex and let them by easily. Obviously, it would be great for DC this season but for all those other times when drivers have battled for position, it would be ruined to some degree i feel. Also, most f1 drivers AFAIK have never raced with a spotter on the radio (besides bourdais perhaps) therefore it would be unnatural to them and take a lot of practice to get used to it.
They dont really need someone to drive them around a road course, although the teams do usually tell drivers over the radio of theres a yellow flag out or a crash on the circuit or a red light.

#25 TheCustomer

TheCustomer
  • Member

  • 35 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 12 June 2008 - 12:19

wouldn't bigger wing mirrors (or more of them) solve the problem?

ie a rule that specifies mirrors should be stable, and give a field of view from x degrees to the rear, to y degrees alongside.

:up:

#26 tifosi

tifosi
  • Member

  • 13,279 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 12 June 2008 - 12:39

Originally posted by TheCustomer
wouldn't bigger wing mirrors (or more of them) solve the problem?

ie a rule that specifies mirrors should be stable, and give a field of view from x degrees to the rear, to y degrees alongside.

:up:


That's fine for everyone but Ferrari' First rule of Italien driving:

" whatsa behind you, does not matter" paraphrasing a little, I believe.

#27 Kooper

Kooper
  • Member

  • 2,189 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 12 June 2008 - 12:47

Originally posted by tahadar


i recall sato having a spotter for a race when he started further down the grid than usual in his fast-starting honda a few years back ('04?)


IIRC it was Monaco. Sato made a better start than Schui and barged past him into Ste Devote... he did bang wheels with MS. Is that the race Sato jumped the start & then his engine blew, DC tagged someone going over them?

Spotters in F1 - No.

#28 Perigee

Perigee
  • Member

  • 895 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 12 June 2008 - 13:01

Originally posted by pRy


Was he told there was a red light at the end of the pitlane or was he told to watch out for a red light at the end of the pitlane? I'd say theres a big difference between the two instructions. One tells you the pit lane is closed, the other tells you it might be closed but check for yourself when you get to the end of the pitlane. By which point Lewis was looking at two cars side by side at the end of the pit lane, probably thinking "Whos that.. is it Kimi.. what's going on there then.... *smash*"

Well, reminded to use his own judgement when he got their I expect. I mean, if the team say it *is* red, perhaps he'd go down the the end and just follow their instructions regardless of the fact the light may have changed.

I dunno..there doesn't seem a great deal of point trying to apologise for Lewis on this one. Really.

#29 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,399 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 12 June 2008 - 13:25

Why do you think all of those staff are watching the monitors and giving the drivers info on the radio? I don't think spotters could really add anything IMO.

#30 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,019 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 12 June 2008 - 13:30

In NASCAR on road courses, and even on some tracks where buildings obscure the view, they employ :eek: more than one spotter per driver :eek:

#31 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,739 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 June 2008 - 14:26

didnt they tell lewis it was closed, but too late?, spotter does very little apart from lookout for the driver..

they could use a blimp/airship for the spotters :)

#32 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,739 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 June 2008 - 18:01

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
In NASCAR on road courses, and even on some tracks where buildings obscure the view, they employ :eek: more than one spotter per driver :eek:


they did something similer on the indy500 radio broadcast, was kinda fun :)

#33 giacomo

giacomo
  • Member

  • 6,977 posts
  • Joined: December 05

Posted 13 June 2008 - 18:10

Originally posted by TheCustomer
wouldn't bigger wing mirrors (or more of them) solve the problem?

ie a rule that specifies mirrors should be stable, and give a field of view from x degrees to the rear, to y degrees alongside.

Its not the leaders but the chasers job to take care.

BTW, I think bringing spotters into F1 is a hell of an idea.
It would create new dimensions for excuses. It would boost the entertainment value of press conferences "...and then my spotter told me to overtake Heidfeld but my car wasn't fast enough." And in case of a collision: Two spotters out of job.

#34 F575 GTC

F575 GTC
  • Member

  • 920 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 13 June 2008 - 18:18

Wouldn't be any need or chance to use them. Where as in oval racing an overtaking move can take a while, in F1 it's virtually instantanious. There really isn't anywhere in a GP - other than the start - where you'd need one.

You just need the drivers to have more awareness. Perhaps better wing-mirrors would help, but even then it's down to the driver to use them properly.

#35 James Allen

James Allen
  • New Member

  • 27 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 13 June 2008 - 18:42

F1 should have lots of things, but not this. In fact, it already has something which does a similar job (engineers on the radio should be enough).

#36 fastlegs

fastlegs
  • Member

  • 1,955 posts
  • Joined: April 02

Posted 13 June 2008 - 19:12

Originally posted by James Allen
F1 should have lots of things, but not this. In fact, it already has something which does a similar job (engineers on the radio should be enough).


ditto. :up:

#37 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,739 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 14 June 2008 - 14:37

but we have seen several times this year, they arent enough...

#38 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 5,360 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 14 June 2008 - 14:43

Originally posted by The July Plot

Was it the Chinese GP of 2006? I remember it as well, his engineer was saying to him "car left..car right etc" lol.

It was 05 China GP, the season finale. He jumped the start, overtook a bunch of cars while being talked through it and then got drive thru. :p

#39 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 5,360 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 14 June 2008 - 14:46

Originally posted by James Allen
F1 should have lots of things, but not this. In fact, it already has something which does a similar job (engineers on the radio should be enough).

No offense but I think your name is really silly. I think the mods should lock your account and you should sign with a proper name. Unless you can prove you are the real James Allen. From time to time real personalities sign up to forums, this or other ones, and it creates confusion if people don't know who's the real deal and who isn't.

Advertisement

#40 Georg_Kuyumji

Georg_Kuyumji
  • Member

  • 664 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 14 June 2008 - 16:02

Originally posted by Owen
WTF is a spotter meant to do? I'm lost.


A spotter helps the driver in the orientation, hes telling him how many cars are next to him, telling him if a car approaches fast behind him, or if a wreck happens the spotter tells him how he might get threw it without hitting anything, Spotters are a huge help in Oval Racing, watch how the spotter works with the driver (Kevin Harvick as he wins the Daytona 500)





F1 also has a "spotter" but he is not so active, because as obviously there are hardly cars next to each other, but the F1 "spotter" guides a driver threw the pit stop for example, he reminds him of the pit speed limiter, he guides him threw the pit stop, every step can be commentated sometimes they say watch the white line on exit etc... things that should be obvious but in the heat of the moment could be forgotten, so the spotter reminds the driver.