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Both Kimi and Lewis underestimating BMW & Kubica


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#1 BMW_F1

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:20

Lewis:
"I've always known he's got great talent and he would be strong as soon as BMW pulled their socks up - and they have done.

"They've done a great job, they've been very consistent and it is three teams at the front really battling it out.

"I think he's going to be pushing us right to the end, although it's not particularly worrying. I still feel we can come out on top, but it's going to be a real challenge."


Kimi:

"I'm just glad Kubica won (in Canada) - and congratulations to him. For me, it was better he got the 10 points rather than my main rivals who are now just three points ahead of me," he said.

"BMW has been there and scored points all the time and they now have a nice lead, but I'm not worried about that.

"Although if they keep scoring every race then it won't be that easy to catch them in the Championship


My main wish right now is for BMW to really turn things around and for Kubica to start kicking butt from now till the end of the season..I know these are high hopes but the possibilities are there when two things can happen.. 1. Kimi/Massa/Lewis continue to make mistakes, take each other out, crash, spun out, mechanical failures, pit failures...etc.etc.. combined with a flawless Kubica season.. and 2. BMW picks up the pace and starts outqualifying Ferrari and Mclaren on a regular basis and keep up with them on the race. In addition I am looking forward to Nick helping Kubica take points away from Ferrari/Mclaren like he did last year finishing 4th in most races.

These two guys would then look back and say "holy shit, how did that happened? "

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#2 aditya-now

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:25

Originally posted by BMW_F1


Kimi:

[i]"I'm just glad Kubica won (in Canada) - and congratulations to him. For me, it was better he got the 10 points rather than my main rivals who are now just three points ahead of me," he said.....


It reminds me a little bit of Ron Dennis: "We were basically racing Fernando..." last year in China.

If Lewis thinks he is mainly racing Kimi and Kimi sees Lewis as main opposition, good for Robert!

#3 Bogs

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:26

I would like to see it happens, but I just don't see the other three continuing to have brain cramps, car failures, pit problems, etc. as often as has happened so far. One of the three is bound to put their act together. Kubica is bound to have some sort of car/pit issue, even if he continues to drive flawlessly or might get punted by someone else's mistake (like Nakajima did).

BMW will probably change their focus to 2009, since their goal for this year is achieved.

#4 aditya-now

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:28

Originally posted by Bogs
...

BMW will probably change their focus to 2009, since their goal for this year is achieved.


Knowing the eagerness of Dr.Theissen, he wants the whole world to believe exactly that. And in secret he is planning his assault on world domination.

#5 MaxScelerate

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:29

Both Kimi and Lewis underestimating BMW & Kubica


Uh?

Seems to me they both acknowledge a third participant in the race for Constructor's and a fourth in the race for Driver's champ... in fact, it seems they give BMW/Kubica more brownie-points than they'd ever give their "official" rivals... (perhaps that's where they're 'underestimating'? They should be playing mind games..?)

#6 BMW_F1

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:33

That is also what I think. Its his strategy, let us be the underdogs, keep it low profile, let the other two teams battle it out and then at the end we charge. Similar to Alonso/Lewis/Kimi situation last year.

#7 kismet

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:36

I agree with the premise of the thread. Kimi and Lewis should just give up and congratulate Robert and BMW on their titles. There's absolutely no reason at all for them to believe that their respective teams could mount a credible challenge to the obviously dominant BMW.

#8 aditya-now

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:42

Originally posted by kismet
I agree with the premise of the thread. Kimi and Lewis should just give up and congratulate Robert and BMW on their titles. There's absolutely no reason at all for them to believe that their respective teams could mount a credible challenge to the obviously dominant BMW.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Now you are taking it a little bit far, aren´t you?

#9 Ricardo F1

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 16:52

Originally posted by aditya-now
It reminds me a little bit of Ron Dennis: "We were basically racing Fernando..." last year in China.

Brought to you by out of context theater. :up:

#10 Walsingham

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 17:00

I dont think Kimi underestimates Kubica. AFAIR it was him and Domenicalli who said that BMW and Kubica particularly will be title contenders (WDC) and it was after Malaysia, so very early. I think McLaren and especially Dennis has a problem with admitting that BMW is a threat.

I'd love to see Kubica in WDC fight till the very last race but I think what Kimi and Lewis say is fair assessment. Robert need car at least on the level of McLaren to seriously think about WDC. His problem is that his car is 3rd fastest so consistency alone will not be enough. He had no reliabilty issues, no bad pit stops, quite good strategies and only one incident with Nakajima.

#11 pingu666

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 17:45

there gonna try to get the best results they can, doesnt really matter alot who is fighting who....

remmber lewis was in a similer position a year ago, and had most of his bad luck/mistakes/whatever right at the end

#12 Collective

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 18:14

I don't think it's underestimating (hehe remember Bush and his missunderestimating?)... They are worried about their business, not the others', and that's fine

#13 aditya-now

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 18:28

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Brought to you by out of context theater. :up:


Kimi Raikonnen WDC 2007 ; McLaren WCC 2007*
*(on track)


Ricardo, your sig is also a bit out of context, isn´t it? On track?
Looks like Kimi and McLaren won 2007 !!!

Anyway, kuddos aside, the context is misunderestimating your enemy or racing the wrong enemy. It applies back then (China 2007) as possbily now.
As painful as Ron´s hickup in China 2007 has been to all of us (I´ve been a McLaren fan since the James Hunt-, then Niki Lauda-, then Ayrton Senna-days), I hope the Ronster learns from last year.

#14 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 18:41

I must have been watching a different race in Montreal. The race I was watching showed the BMWs as the best of the rest save for a stupid racing incident that took out #1 and #2.
Would this thread exist if Kubica finished third?

#15 f1rules

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 18:42

kubica is no thread their car is to slow, and know they've reached their objectives for 08 they can move on and focus on 09. That said had kubica driven a ferrari or mclaren he would clearly be leading the championship as he has emerged as the most consistent and fast driver this year

#16 Juan Kerr

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 21:44

Originally posted by BMW_F1
Lewis:
"I've always known he's got great talent and he would be strong as soon as BMW pulled their socks up - and they have done.

"They've done a great job, they've been very consistent and it is three teams at the front really battling it out.

"I think he's going to be pushing us right to the end, although it's not particularly worrying. I still feel we can come out on top, but it's going to be a real challenge."


Kimi:

"I'm just glad Kubica won (in Canada) - and congratulations to him. For me, it was better he got the 10 points rather than my main rivals who are now just three points ahead of me," he said.

"BMW has been there and scored points all the time and they now have a nice lead, but I'm not worried about that.

"Although if they keep scoring every race then it won't be that easy to catch them in the Championship


My main wish right now is for BMW to really turn things around and for Kubica to start kicking butt from now till the end of the season..I know these are high hopes but the possibilities are there when two things can happen.. 1. Kimi/Massa/Lewis continue to make mistakes, take each other out, crash, spun out, mechanical failures, pit failures...etc.etc.. combined with a flawless Kubica season.. and 2. BMW picks up the pace and starts outqualifying Ferrari and Mclaren on a regular basis and keep up with them on the race. In addition I am looking forward to Nick helping Kubica take points away from Ferrari/Mclaren like he did last year finishing 4th in most races.

These two guys would then look back and say "holy shit, how did that happened? "

Kimi and Lewis didn't finish the only race Kubica has won, no reason to panic is it.

#17 as65p

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 21:57

Originally posted by Bogs

BMW will probably change their focus to 2009, since their goal for this year is achieved.


I also sensed this from their statements, and I think it would be a major mistake. Although it would require a lot of luck for Kubica to hold it to the end, the chance, however small, is there. IMO it would be foolish not to try everything and grab it with both hands.

Their nice "5-year-plan" might look good on paper - a win in '08 then fighting for the chamionship in '09. But it's completely ignoring next years regulation changes. They might be even stronger next year, but it's equally possible that they will sink again to midfield, or be fast but fragile.

The time is NOW.

#18 Mauseri

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 22:20

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
Kimi and Lewis didn't finish the only race Kubica has won, no reason to panic is it.

Exactly. The numbers tell the truth. Kubica in his car lacks a couple tenths of pace compared to Kimi, Massa and Lewis.

#19 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:46

On the strength of the quotes at the top of this thread I don't believe Hamilton or Raikkonen underestimate BMW & Kubica.

Ron Dennis on the other hand replied to a question in April about whether BMW would be a consistent threat throughout the season with these words:

No. I think that we respect all competitors and they're doing a better job than they've done at any other time in their involvement in F1.

But it is when we get to Europe that the R&D and speed of manufacture starts to make a difference. We'll be very strong and I'm not at all unduly worried about the future. It will be a fight right through the season.

source

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#20 pUs

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 13:32

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Kimi Raikonnen WDC 2007 ; McLaren WCC 2007*
*(on track)


Sure, I agree totally, on track the Mclaren team behaved fine. Off track, now that's another matter.. :rolleyes:

#21 pasadena

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 13:36

Originally posted by micra_k10

Exactly. The numbers tell the truth. Kubica in his car lacks a couple tenths of pace compared to Kimi, Massa and Lewis.

You mean, Kubica's car and not Kubica the driver is lacking a few tenths?

#22 Red Rocket

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 14:32

I don’t think Kimi or Ferrari underestimated Kubica or BMW. From day one Stefano Domenicali Ferrari team manager made it quite clear that one need to keep an eye on BMW. That BMW would just slightly be off pace with Ferrari and Mclaren and always be a threat.

I don’t know if Hamilton ever said any thing about Kubica or BMW. I just know that Mclaren were vocal in indicating as the season opened up, BMW would start to fade away. Interesting after Montreal Mclaren has changed it’s tune.

Having said this I am glad to see BMW doing so well they are not braggers like Mclaren, just quiet, focused and consistent.

#23 giacomo

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 14:47

Originally posted by BMW_F1
Lewis:
"I've always known he's got great talent and he would be strong as soon as BMW pulled their socks up - and they have done.
"They've done a great job , they've been very consistent and it is three teams at the front really battling it out.
"I think he's going to be pushing us right to the end , although it's not particularly worrying. I still feel we can come out on top, but it's going to be a real challenge ."


Kimi:
"I'm just glad Kubica won (in Canada) - and congratulations to him. For me, it was better he got the 10 points rather than my main rivals who are now just three points ahead of me," he said.
"BMW has been there and scored points all the time and they now have a nice lead, but I'm not worried about that.
"Although if they keep scoring every race then it won't be that easy to catch them in the Championship."

So far about Hamilton and Raikkonen underestimating Kubica and BMW.

#24 Jacquesback

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 14:50

Lewis is obviously giving Robert and BMW far more respect than Kimi. The arrogance of Kimi's statement is gauling and it's obvious he needs to be brought down a peg or two, I can only hope that Kimi gets his comeuppance from the Bimmers.

#25 BMW_F1

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 14:59

I am glad I am not the only one here who can pick this up.. - He says that they'll be a challenge and that they've been good but at the end he overrides everything he says previously by admitting is nothing to worry about..
In his mind at the moment only Massa and Lewis are his true challenge, and I hope it stays this way so that Kubica can be the dark horse. Like someone said already, it sounds like what Ron was saying last year "we are racing Alonso not Kimi" , oh well guess what ? - for doing that Ron ended up giving up the title to Kimi.. If Kimi and Lewis think like this, that they are racing each other and MAssa and not pay attention to BMW, it would be easier for Kubica to stay ahead.

#26 John B

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 15:15

BMW this year seems to have a role similar to HHF/Jordan in 1999. They are fortunate in a way that RK has dominated the team results, so they're not splitting points like the Ferrari duo, though Hamilton is doing the same at McLaren. Assuming the three teams maintain their relative paces, what will handicap BMW ultimately is not being able to go out and get wins on sheer pace the way the others can, but if those wins are at least split among LH, KR, and FM they'll have a chance to keep in touch.

#27 James Allen

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 16:03

My thoughts are that you shouldn't read a lot into the things a racing driver says, I don't really see any problem with the comments I've seen at the top of this thread anyway. Besides, the teams and drivers will surely push to the maximum so I don't see how underestimating makes any difference. It's not like Kimi will be leading and Kubica will cruise up behind him somwhow and Kimi will think 'oh it's only Kubi I'll let him through'.

Anyway a poor way of writing what I think but I reckon you lot will see my point. I'm hungry.

#28 BMW_F1

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 16:06

Originally posted by John B
BMW this year seems to have a role similar to HHF/Jordan in 1999. They are fortunate in a way that RK has dominated the team results, so they're not splitting points like the Ferrari duo, though Hamilton is doing the same at McLaren. Assuming the three teams maintain their relative paces, what will handicap BMW ultimately is not being able to go out and get wins on sheer pace the way the others can, but if those wins are at least split among LH, KR, and FM they'll have a chance to keep in touch.


Exactly.. In 03, Kimi was very very close to win it on the last race and he only had one win.. consistency got him there.
Kubica can accomplish the same and can grab the WDC in the last race of the year. Picture this..........

Current standings with 11 races left:
Kubica:42
Lewis:38
Massa:38
Kimi:35

next 10 races before Brazil

France: Kimi 10, Lewis 8, Kubica 6, Nick 5, Massa 4
UK: Lewis 10, Kubica 8, Massa 6, Kimi DNF
germ: Kimi 10, Massa 8, Kubica 6, Lewis 5
hung: Massa 10, Kimi 8, Lewis 6, Kubica 5
Europe: Kimi 10, Lewis 8, Kubica 6, Massa 5
Bel Kimi 10, Massa 8, Kubica 6, Lewis 5
Monza: Lewis 10, Kubica 8, Kimi 6, Massa DNF
Sing Massa 10, Kimi 8, Kubica 6, Lewis 5
Jap Lewis 10, Kubica 8, Massa 6, Kimi 5,
Chi Massa 10, Kimi 8, Kubica 6, Lewis DNF

- Kimi wins 4 races and both Lewis and Massa win 3 each.
- All drivers except Kubica have a DNF.
- Kubica reaches the podium in 9 out of 10 races but never wins.

After these results the standings would be.
Kimi:110
Kubica:107
Lewis:105
Massa:104

Massa wins in Brazil (10 points) :clap: ....................................................WDC points 114
Kubica finishes 2 (8 points) ..................................................................WDC points 115 CHAMPION!!!! :up: :up:
Kimi and Lewis crash on T1 :eek: , lewis continues but finishes 5th .............WDC points 109
.............................................., Kimi's car is unrepairable :cry: ...............WDC points 110

#29 Frank Booth

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 16:24

Originally posted by Bogs
BMW will probably change their focus to 2009, since their goal for this year is achieved.


*Buzzer sound*

Not likely IMO, wasn't one of their other goals to finish higher in the WCC on their own merits? To me that implies 2nd place in the WCC at least.

#30 Fatgadget

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 16:41

"BMW_F1." Mind if I ask your allegiance and who drives for BMW ?

#31 BMW_F1

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 16:43

Originally posted by Fatgadget
BMW_F1. Mind if I ask your allegiance?


guess.

#32 Orin

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 16:56

Originally posted by aditya-now

... is misunderestimating your enemy or racing the wrong enemy.


Ah, dubya's legacy is secure! :D


(sorry :blush: )

#33 aditya-now

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 19:15

Originally posted by BMW_F1


Exactly.. In 03, Kimi was very very close to win it on the last race and he only had one win.. consistency got him there.
Kubica can accomplish the same and can grab the WDC in the last race of the year. Picture this..........

Current standings with 11 races left:
Kubica:42
Lewis:38
Massa:38
Kimi:35

next 10 races before Brazil

France: Kimi 10, Lewis 8, Kubica 6, Nick 5, Massa 4
UK: Lewis 10, Kubica 8, Massa 6, Kimi DNF
germ: Kimi 10, Massa 8, Kubica 6, Lewis 5
hung: Massa 10, Kimi 8, Lewis 6, Kubica 5
Europe: Kimi 10, Lewis 8, Kubica 6, Massa 5
Bel Kimi 10, Massa 8, Kubica 6, Lewis 5
Monza: Lewis 10, Kubica 8, Kimi 6, Massa DNF
Sing Massa 10, Kimi 8, Kubica 6, Lewis 5
Jap Lewis 10, Kubica 8, Massa 6, Kimi 5,
Chi Massa 10, Kimi 8, Kubica 6, Lewis DNF

- Kimi wins 4 races and both Lewis and Massa win 3 each.
- All drivers except Kubica have a DNF.
- Kubica reaches the podium in 9 out of 10 races but never wins.

After these results the standings would be.
Kimi:110
Kubica:107
Lewis:105
Massa:104

Massa wins in Brazil (10 points) :clap: ....................................................WDC points 114
Kubica finishes 2 (8 points) ..................................................................WDC points 115 CHAMPION!!!! :up: :up:
Kimi and Lewis crash on T1 :eek: , lewis continues but finishes 5th .............WDC points 109
.............................................., Kimi's car is unrepairable :cry: ...............WDC points 110



Not at all unlikely, this scenario. Wow. :D
Fatgadget, what´s your allegiance, btw?

Originally posted by Orin


Ah, dubya's legacy is secure! :D


(sorry :blush: )


Don´t you misunderestimate me, Orin ;)
It was my homage to Collective :cool:

#34 BMW_F1

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 19:29

Originally posted by aditya-now



Not at all unlikely, this scenario. Wow. :D


I know... The only one caveat I see for my scenario to fully work is that Mario is not yet willing to position Nick in a supporting #2 role staring from next race on. Kubica will have to beat Nick on merit in all races from now till the end, which I don't think is remotely impossible. The other thing that must click here is that Massa and Kimi both have to be within a few points of each other throughout the remainder of the season, interchanging wins otherwise Ferrari will automatically designate one driver for WDC. Also keep in mind that I did not give Kovalainen any podiums from now till the end, he can also get in there and grab some points from the top three.

#35 metz

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 19:51

I submit to you that Nick, only finishing 4th, once in the next 10 races, is VERY unlikely.
I further suggest the team will make sure that Heidfeld is more likely to take points away from competitors, rather than Kubica.

#36 BMW_F1

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 20:00

Originally posted by metz
I submit to you that Nick, only finishing 4th, once in the next 10 races, is VERY unlikely.
I further suggest the team will make sure that Heidfeld is more likely to take points away from competitors, rather than Kubica.


I know that is true, but I did not want to overcomplicate the scenario. It is also highly likely that some other driver will get a podium (Alonso, Webber, Kova, Rosberg) from now till the end and demote Lewis/Massa/Kimi and taking points away from them. These two conditions factor each other out. I just wanted to simply demonstrate that if Kubica is consistent finishing 3rd in most races and getting a few 2nds, he can still win the WDC despite Kimi/Massa/Lewis winning all of the races and sitting on the podium in most.