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Early Holden racing


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#951 fredeuce

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:44

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Without taking this too far - The expletive the driver is mouthing is probably appropriate.... :eek: :lol:


And what about that number 69 on the door ? Clearly this form of racing was and Adults Only affair! ;)  ;)  ;)

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#952 Wirra

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:54

Can we stop this smutty schoolboy humour and get back to Humpies!

#953 Ellis French

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:58

Munyard's name disappears from race reports after the May meeting of '67...

But nowhere do the reports mention him rolling it.




He rolled it alright. I have 8mm movie of him doing it.
It was sponsored by a shell servo in Hobart and was bright Yellow and Red in colour.

Its the same car he did the surfers long distance race in.
He sold it and it went to NZ with another Taswegian who sold it over there to get his fares back home.

He drove my Humpy in the demo laps last year at Baskerville with another old Tas Humpy driver Morrie Price as passenger.
Munyard is returning to Humpies in this years Baskerville Historics in Oct if the car is completed.
He held a sports car lap record at Baskerville for a number of years after his Humpy escapades.




#954 Ellis French

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 04:12

[quote name='ellrosso' date='Aug 4 2011, 12:03' post='5217198']
Plus a couple of my favourite humpy shots to keep on thread.

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If you look in front on the car on the track you can see the tyre marks form the previous 2 or 3 laps.

We never raced that car again as when it came back to earth it went down over an almost meter
high drop off and twisted the body badly.
We put all the running gear into another car. The new one was painted Falcon GT Gold , my influence from a Blue Oval
virus that I got around then and still have.
The old Yellow/Orange shell did make a return to racing in the hands of John Routley in about 1969.

2 wheeling was common in that corner (Old Pit Cnr) and the LH at the end of the main straight. I have movies of pit cnr showing it on many occasions.
The only spectators to see it at the end of the straight were the following drivers and the Flaggies.



#955 johnny yuma

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 05:00

Can we stop this smutty schoolboy humour and get back to Humpies!


Humping your Bluey is an acceptable Australianism from the past--but Blueing a Humpy well yes quite crass !


#956 ellrosso

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 07:38

Shot of Mike's gold car at Syms '68. Also a few of Geoff Munyard. Quite a character as you well know Ellis. I actually did an interview with Geoff for the Tas Motor Sports annual in 1982. He was racing the Trowbridge Rotary at the time - extremely quick car, drove it well too. He had bought a Matich A50 at the time but never got to race it for whatever reason - had a run at O Park in the wet but that was about it. Can't recall who he bought it off - maybe Barry Lewis? Note the lights on the number in the Longford shot - still on there from the Surfers 12 hr.

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#957 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 23:46

Shot of Mike's gold car at Syms '68. Also a few of Geoff Munyard. Quite a character as you well know Ellis. I actually did an interview with Geoff for the Tas Motor Sports annual in 1982. He was racing the Trowbridge Rotary at the time - extremely quick car, drove it well too. He had bought a Matich A50 at the time but never got to race it for whatever reason - had a run at O Park in the wet but that was about it. Can't recall who he bought it off - maybe Barry Lewis? Note the lights on the number in the Longford shot - still on there from the Surfers 12 hr.

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Very rare in Oz R series Valiant/Plymouth wagon in the background. Left hook and all.

#958 Ian G

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 01:39

A valiant effort judging by the angle of the front wheel....but probably ended in tears!! All those spectators are a worry from a safety point of view :rolleyes:


I was still at school so it was 1968/69,a FJ went straight ahead a bit further along from there,just before the uphill climb to the crest, and head first into the old timber railings and bounced back and rolled on its side. Bits of wood flew into the crowd just in front of me but no one was seriously hurt,main problem was racing was delayed for a couple of hours as they tried to repair the fence..I remember the driver was OK as well but the car was written off but they they announced over the track loudspeakers someone had donated a new shell to him.
After that episode,if we didn't have pit passes we always went to Energol/BP to watch the racing.

#959 bradbury west

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 18:20

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Just out of interest, did this run with the old 4 pot TR motor or the newer 6 cylinder Triumph engine?
Roger Lund


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#960 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 21:13

At a guess, Roger, I would say it was the 4...

I have never yet seen a car other than a Triumph fitted with that six, not a popular item for Specials.

#961 ellrosso

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 21:33

Yes it was fitted with a 4 cyl motor.

#962 275 GTB-4

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 21:56

So...... 3 Webers ARE better than 6 Amals!

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#963 275 GTB-4

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 00:42

Seat belts then, were to hold you in the [bench] seat!

I was at Hume Weir, 1960?, when John Halcrow had a 'big lose'. When I later asked him what happened, he said that he slid across the seat, and couldn't steer, as he was hanging onto the steering wheel. He fitted a [lap?] belt after that.


According to RCN, Ron Imisides(?) in the Black FE lost control at Silverdale in the 60s, hit a tree and fell on the floor...so he got a tow rope and strapped himself in whilst on track for the remainder of the day

UPDATE with apologies...Ron didn't hit anything!

From July 1961 RCN report on VSCC Open Climb

Undoubtedly the most humorous episode before lunch occurred when Ron Imisides took his first ever run up the hill in the much modified black FE Holden. He negotiated the first left hander and the hump without incident but the sharp right at Big Tree Corner threw him somewhat…as a matter of fact it threw him right onto the floor. Fortunately the Holden disdained to hit anything and Ron competed for the rest of the day with a tow rope doing double duty as a seat belt.

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 11 September 2011 - 10:30.


#964 DanTra2858

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 02:47

According to RCN, Ron Imisides(?) in the Black FE lost control at Silverdale in the 60s, hit a tree and fell on the floor...so he got a tow rope and strapped himself in whilst on track for the remainder of the day


I was at Silverdale with Ron that day but can not remember him hitting anything but yes he did tie himself in, would like to see a copy of the article.

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Ron competing at Huntley Hill Climb

#965 David Shaw

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 02:58

So...... 3 Webers ARE better than 6 Amals!


Actually, reading the article indicates the opposite 175hp v. 202hp

#966 275 GTB-4

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 06:05

Actually, reading the article indicates the opposite 175hp v. 202hp


Actually, by reading the article, and seeing that all they did was run out of jets and patience, but proved the horsepower potential of the engine when properly fueled with the Amals.....lead me to believe, that, it boded very well for the Webers at some later date :cat:

#967 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 09:52

Is there any indication of when that hillclimb incident took place?

I'm still interested to know when belts... harness, actually... became mandatory. I'm sure it was before I first saw a race.

#968 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 10:20

Actually, by reading the article, and seeing that all they did was run out of jets and patience, but proved the horsepower potential of the engine when properly fueled with the Amals.....lead me to believe, that, it boded very well for the Webers at some later date :cat:

Hi, you are probably right as a Weber is more efficient than an Amal. Though a lot of people made Amals work in the past. And they did make more power with the Amals.

#969 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 10:23

Is there any indication of when that hillclimb incident took place?

I'm still interested to know when belts... harness, actually... became mandatory. I'm sure it was before I first saw a race.

I would hate to run without belts. I did motorkhanas etc with lap sash qand a standard seat and was sliding all over the place.
My rallycross days were done with an EH Premier seat and a 3 point harness. I am damned if I know how I stayed in the car!
How things have changed


#970 275 GTB-4

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 13:06

I would hate to run without belts. I did motorkhanas etc with lap sash qand a standard seat and was sliding all over the place.
My rallycross days were done with an EH Premier seat and a 3 point harness. I am damned if I know how I stayed in the car!
How things have changed


The Black FE at Silverdale was in 1961 :wave:

#971 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 13:34

Thank you, Mick...

I knew it had to be before 1962!

#972 Catalina Park

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 04:47

I guess someone got a copy of the first RCN. :wave:

#973 275 GTB-4

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 10:34

I guess someone got a copy of the first RCN. :wave:


Just call me "Biff" Mike!! Gawd, the old Backpackers is flash now...Goulburn's getting trendy!! :)

[Imisides FE post updated - see above]

#974 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 11:03

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I guess someone got a copy of the first RCN.


As someone mentioned just a week or so back, it was reprinted and included in the July/August 1980 issue...

#975 parkey

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 03:30

As someone mentioned just a week or so back, it was reprinted and included in the July/August 1980 issue...


hello all very interesting forum here.

i was wondering if anybody remembers noel simmons old early model holden(FX) racing car? it was lime green in color,no stripe, it raced calder,hume weir and winton 1972 to 1975

thanks parkey

#976 Dick Willis

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:39

When I was a young bloke and an early Holden nut ( still am ) I used to be fascinated by the carburetion arrangements of the leading Holdens racing then, 1962 and thereabouts.
Below is Max Volkers' car taken at Lakeside International in 1962 with a pair of sandcast 2" SU's breathing across to the rh side of the engine.
I will post some others in the next few days when I dig the pics out, all taken with a good old Box Brownie.

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#977 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 23:55

When I was a young bloke and an early Holden nut ( still am ) I used to be fascinated by the carburetion arrangements of the leading Holdens racing then, 1962 and thereabouts.
Below is Max Volkers' car taken at Lakeside International in 1962 with a pair of sandcast 2" SU's breathing across to the rh side of the engine.
I will post some others in the next few days when I dig the pics out, all taken with a good old Box Brownie.

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An interesting set up but three 1.5 SUs would be better I feel.
But it goes to show the experimentation and innovation of the day. And quite possible he had aquired a couple of Jag carbs and proceeded to use what he had.
It is just as well an FJ had plenty of underbonnet space!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 28 January 2012 - 23:56.


#978 Dick Willis

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 00:15

Someone mentioned 3 Amals earlier in this thread, Kingsley Hibbard's Humpy at Warwick Farm, 1962 with 3 Amals,

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#979 GMACKIE

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 01:11

Someone mentioned 3 Amals earlier in this thread, Kingsley Hibbard's Humpy at Warwick Farm, 1962 with 3 Amals,

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At Silverdale, [a bit later perhaps], Kingsley Hibbard's Holden was sporting FIVE 'monobloc' Amals. I will never forget that sight. :rolleyes:


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#980 johnny yuma

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 22:27

When I was a young bloke and an early Holden nut ( still am ) I used to be fascinated by the carburetion arrangements of the leading Holdens racing then, 1962 and thereabouts.
Below is Max Volkers' car taken at Lakeside International in 1962 with a pair of sandcast 2" SU's breathing across to the rh side of the engine.
I will post some others in the next few days when I dig the pics out, all taken with a good old Box Brownie.

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Hmmm so does that qualify as a crossflow head ? :lol: Must have worked OK Max car was one of the quicker of the day.

#981 Wilyman

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 00:34

Hmmm so does that qualify as a crossflow head ? :lol: Must have worked OK Max car was one of the quicker of the day.



I keep going back to this picture trying to fathom out the set up. To me the carbs and manifolds appear to be resting on top of the engine while other work is in progress? The inlet manifolds don't appear to be going anywhere. :rolleyes:

#982 GMACKIE

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:11

I keep going back to this picture trying to fathom out the set up. To me the carbs and manifolds appear to be resting on top of the engine while other work is in progress? The inlet manifolds don't appear to be going anywhere. :rolleyes:

After seeing Max's car at 'The Farm', I tried to describe the intake manifold to someone. The best I could come up with was "like push-bike handlebars".


#983 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:22

At Silverdale, [a bit later perhaps], Kingsley Hibbard's Holden was sporting FIVE 'monobloc' Amals. I will never forget that sight. :rolleyes:

I only see 3. much the same as Dicks pic I feel.Or the clearer pics about that car in AMC mag.
The twin SUs over the r/c. have the black intake going between the extractor pipe at the front. I agree it seems weird but it must have worked.

#984 Dick Willis

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:31

Brian Muir's Humpy at Lakeside International, 1962, what make of carbs does it have ? Are they dual throat downdraught Webers ? Is this the same car later raced by Spencer Martin ? I had an idea Spencer's car had 3 SU's.

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#985 wagons46

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:36


Spencer's car was built by Joel Wakely and Bob Gray from the ground up and yes it did have triple 1.3/4 SU's.

I believe there is a story on the car coming up in Unique Car Magazine.


#986 Dick Willis

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:49

Did the Brian Muir car go to Max Stahl, Ray Bell, where are you ?

#987 GMACKIE

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:00

I only see 3. much the same as Dicks pic I feel.Or the clearer pics about that car in AMC mag.
The twin SUs over the r/c. have the black intake going between the extractor pipe at the front. I agree it seems weird but it must have worked.

Lee, if you were at Silverdale on that day, you would have seen FIVE, as I did! I am not talking about a photo, or a mag. story here....the car was actually right there before my eyes, with the FIVE Amals winking at me. :wave:



#988 ellrosso

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:01

Five Amals - never seen that before! I've seen six on Rod Butler's XL Falcon at Syms in 1969, but 5 seems very odd.

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Here are a few pics lifted from a 1965 Hot-Up Guide - Dick, I'd say those carbs on that previous pic are single throat Webers by the looks of it

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#989 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:41

Lee, if you were at Silverdale on that day, you would have seen FIVE, as I did! I am not talking about a photo, or a mag. story here....the car was actually right there before my eyes, with the FIVE Amals winking at me. :wave:


I can confirm that, Greg. I was at Silverdale that day too and also remember the FIVE GP Amals on Kingsley Hibbard's Holden. I have no recollection of how well or not it worked but I do recall the five Amals mounted on a log manifold. The only logic seemed to be that five GPs were about equal in length to a side plate Holden engine and more is better!!!

#990 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:42

Lee, if you were at Silverdale on that day, you would have seen FIVE, as I did! I am not talking about a photo, or a mag. story here....the car was actually right there before my eyes, with the FIVE Amals winking at me. :wave:


I can confirm that, Greg. I was at Silverdale that day too and also remember the FIVE GP Amals on Kingsley Hibbard's Holden. I have no recollection of how well or not it worked but I do recall the five Amals mounted on a log manifold. The only logic seemed to be that five GPs were about equal in length to a side plate Holden engine and more is better!!!

#991 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:44

Lee, if you were at Silverdale on that day, you would have seen FIVE, as I did! I am not talking about a photo, or a mag. story here....the car was actually right there before my eyes, with the FIVE Amals winking at me. :wave:

3 bowls, 3 cables 3 bodies. 5 would make no sense on a 3 intake port 6 cyl engine.And it still has 3 now by the AMC article.
6 on a 12 port Falcon motor would be right Lindsay.
Those 2 webers I think are I think 2bbls, though quite a small carb. They are carbs I have never seen before.
In the early 70s a mate and I had 2 2bbl Hitachis [vacc secondarys] from a small Mazda on a grey motor.On a modified home made twin Stromberg manifold. It went faster than a single carb!! And it was free.

#992 GeoffR

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:02

.. the five Amals mounted on a log manifold.

Maybe working on the theory that if more than enough fuel/air mixture was fed into a a 'common' inlet manifold (from multiple sources) the individual inlet ports would draw more than enough fuel/air mixture from that? The common measure for carburerettor throats to inlet ports has always been in the ratio of one to one, one to two etc, not five to six!
BTW I can remember seeing a mate of my brother put a Jap sourced two barrel carb (Nikki?) on a 179 EH in place of the standard, what a difference that made in terms of performance!
Also, from personal experience, a mate of mine ran triple (factory) strombergs on a 179 in an FB which was good for 130 mph (I've been there)!

Edited by GeoffR, 30 January 2012 - 11:32.


#993 ellrosso

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:07

Lee, my brother used to borrow an HR ute from a guy who used to do the mechanical work on his hot FB back in the early 70's. It had a 186 with 2 dual throat Nikki (?) Japanese carbs on it which looked a bit like Strombergs. Heard of those? Certainly went! Loud too with extractors running thru a single echo box....
Re the early model carbs, most of the Tassy cars either used triple Amals or SU's. Gene Cook was the first one to try twin dual throat sidedraft Dellortos in 1969.
His car was the quickest at that time. Couple of cars ran twin Strombergs - Wayne Quinn, Trevor Grace (he went to 3 Amals eventually though - still runs them to this day as well) and I think John Taylor. 3 single throat Dellortos were run also - Doug Young from memory. Can't recall anyone with 3 Strombergs - Ellis may know different though.

#994 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:38

Lee, my brother used to borrow an HR ute from a guy who used to do the mechanical work on his hot FB back in the early 70's. It had a 186 with 2 dual throat Nikki (?) Japanese carbs on it which looked a bit like Strombergs. Heard of those? Certainly went! Loud too with extractors running thru a single echo box....
Re the early model carbs, most of the Tassy cars either used triple Amals or SU's. Gene Cook was the first one to try twin dual throat sidedraft Dellortos in 1969.
His car was the quickest at that time. Couple of cars ran twin Strombergs - Wayne Quinn, Trevor Grace (he went to 3 Amals eventually though - still runs them to this day as well) and I think John Taylor. 3 single throat Dellortos were run also - Doug Young from memory. Can't recall anyone with 3 Strombergs - Ellis may know different though.

Nikkis were used in a variety of sizes on early Japanese cars. Datto 1200s and 1600s had Nikki 2 bbls and other brands used Hitachis. For the period all fairly good little carbs. Almost all with vacc secondarys unlike WWs etc that were 2bbl all the time. And designed for larger engines 2600S Torana to 302 Fords. We played later with triple downdraught Strombergs. Was so fast in the day though hindsight says they were probably too big really until about 4000rpm. For a fairly stock FB 138 engine.
The progresive nature of those little Jap carbs made them more user friendly and with a better manifold would may have been very good.But we just modded the manifold flanges bodged up some linkages and bolted them on.

#995 GMACKIE

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 20:29

I can confirm that, Greg. I was at Silverdale that day too and also remember the FIVE GP Amals on Kingsley Hibbard's Holden. I have no recollection of how well or not it worked but I do recall the five Amals mounted on a log manifold. The only logic seemed to be that five GPs were about equal in length to a side plate Holden engine and more is better!!!

Thanks Paul. I don't particularly like any suggestion that I may be telling 'porkies'. 'The King' and I [no, not the musical] had a lengthy discussion that day on on log manifolds,and his Amal set-up. The reason for the five Amals was simple.......THERE WASN'T ENOUGH ROOM FOR SIX! He explained to me how he stopped them from flooding, [I had that trouble with two Amals on a VW], by removing the 'tickler' button.

My Beetle [eventually] ran well, with a pair of Nikki twin-choke, progressive down-draughts, although the SUs that I had on before them were as good - 102mph at Bathurst. If I had King's 'clue' about flooding, I may have persevered with the Amals, although the cable operation was a nightmare.


#996 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 22:58

I remember once that Kevin Shearer told me that a log-type exhaust was 90% efficient, while 'tuned extractors' could be 60% or 110%... at least the log gave good 'insurance' that you had some kind of efficiency...

A log inlet could well have just relied on the five carbies to keep the log fed, the distribution being even from the log to the inlet ports.

The Max Volkers setup looks like the old Hudson intakes as built by Kleinig and others.

Originally posted by Dick Willis
Did the Brian Muir car go to Max Stahl, Ray Bell, where are you?


Yes, it went to Max...

It was a pair of dual throat Webers, I'll give Ray a call and ask what type some time. Unless you ask him at Wakefield Park, I guess you'd see him down there?

#997 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 22:59

I remember once that Kevin Shearer told me that a log-type exhaust was 90% efficient, while 'tuned extractors' could be 60% or 110%... at least the log gave good 'insurance' that you had some kind of efficiency...

A log inlet could well have just relied on the five carbies to keep the log fed, the distribution being even from the log to the inlet ports.

The Max Volkers setup looks like the old Hudson intakes as built by Kleinig and others.

Originally posted by Dick Willis
Did the Brian Muir car go to Max Stahl, Ray Bell, where are you?


Yes, it went to Max...

It was a pair of dual throat Webers, I'll give Ray a call and ask what type some time. Unless you ask him at Wakefield Park, I guess you'd see him down there?

#998 Dick Willis

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:30

Taken at Warwick Farm in 1961, a more conventional setup, most commonly used, even today. A trio of 1 1/2 SU's probably salvaged from a 2 1/2 litre Riley.
Not sure whose car it is but is that Des West on the rh side with the hat on ?

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#999 sherpa

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:39

Spencer's car was built by Joel Wakely and Bob Gray from the ground up and yes it did have triple 1.3/4 SU's.

I believe there is a story on the car coming up in Unique Car Magazine.



Hi, I was wondering if you knew which issue the car will be featured in .
Thanks Greg

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#1000 wagons46

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:07

Hi, I was wondering if you knew which issue the car will be featured in .
Thanks Greg


I was told Feb although that doesn't appear likely from next months preview. Rest assured it will get a mention on this thread when it does feature. The Boomerang car was a very significant Early Holden in Australian motor racing and the story of what it achieved with both drivers is quite interesting and perhaps underated.