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#1151 johnny yuma

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:43

To re-open a sub-topic,I have just read online David Hayward's Automotive History-The Holden Car Project.This section is 38 pages well researched and touches on the Canadian Block myth.
The prototype Holdens built in Michigan (one of which is in Australian National Museum in Canberra) had their
engine blocks and heads cast by Campbell Wyant and Cannon,a foundry contractor used by G.M.,in Muskegon,Michigan in 1946.The blocks had CWC cast into them. None were made in Canada at any stage.

A post on an unrelated MOPAR site had a query as to what the CWC cast was on an obscure Dodge motor,one reply was it stood for Chrysler Windsor Canada,but another opinion was Campbell,Wyant and Cannon (sometimes spelled Canon).Scope there for someone who was around with a few clues and seeing the crates and prototypes arriving by ship from Vancouver, after their train trip from Michigan,being unloaded in Melbourne and thinking since the Ship came from Canada (Vancouver) and the blocks have CWC...must be Chrysler Windsor Canada. But no.

The number of CWC blocks cast was small,single figures it would seem.The Holden engine numbering in Australia started at 1001,not because there were 1000 Canadian blocks made,but because GMH chose to number them that way.There most certainly were not thousands made in Michigan (or Canada.)

Edited by johnny yuma, 04 February 2013 - 05:44.


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#1152 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:26

Thanks for bringing us up to date on that information, Johnny...

I do hope this will rest easy, obviously that's dependent on the research of this author being correct. But this explanation certainly does seem very logical.

On which 'unrelated Mopar site' is the Chrysler mention to be found?

#1153 Catalina Park

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:41

It does make sense.
Regarding the engine numbers starting at 1001. This was standard practice at BMC Australia. The engines start at 1001. The car numbers start at 501. The bodies also have a unique number and it starts at 1.

#1154 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:58

Regarding the 'CWC' possibly meaning 'Chrysler Windsor Canada'... how unlikely would that be anyway?

'Chrysler Windsor Ontario' would be more likely. But the capacity of that plant would auger against it anyway, I'd suggest. When Chrysler got into making their flathead sixes in Canada (this plant, by the way, is within about ten miles of Chrysler's Michigan plant, literally just across the river) they rationalised what they would do there because of the limited plant capacity.

So they only built the longer engine of their two (car and light truck) sixes, reasoning that it had more scope for capacity increases and decreases by changing the stroke. Likewise, they never built their big block V8s in Canada, but the Poly small block was in production from the late fifties until 1967 (the year after the US plants stopped building them) and then they swung over to the LA.

So with limited facilities (compared to what was just across the river), small production runs or experimental models wouldn't have been likely to have been seen there. In fact, the reason for the plant was to cut down on import duties into Canada and other Commonwealth countries, so it was really outside the scope of the plant's intended use.

And Muskegan in Michigan is where our TNF friend Jerry Entin hangs out, by the way.

#1155 275 GTB-4

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:11

It does make sense.
Regarding the engine numbers starting at 1001. This was standard practice at BMC Australia. The engines start at 1001. The car numbers start at 501. The bodies also have a unique number and it starts at 1.


Yes...started out good :up: but what happened!! :)

#1156 GMACKIE

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:58

[quote name='johnny yuma' date='Feb 4 2013, 16:43' post='6114474']
Campbell,Wyant and Cannon (sometimes spelled Canon).

Burt Munro would have said that was that was to save ink. ;)

#1157 johnny yuma

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 23:41

Thanks for bringing us up to date on that information, Johnny...

I do hope this will rest easy, obviously that's dependent on the research of this author being correct. But this explanation certainly does seem very logical.

On which 'unrelated Mopar site' is the Chrysler mention to be found?

Ray the best way to find it seems to be google CWC ENGINE BLOCKS, although it is within forums.aaca.org

#1158 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:17

Ray the best way to find it seems to be google CWC ENGINE BLOCKS, although it is within forums.aaca.org

Those early grey blocks were cast by a outside foundry. Reputedly in Canada. As per the Norm Darwin book and others.
I doubt GM would get them done by a Chrysler company, though very maybe. Even then the majors did share some suppliers, and the majors had control of some of those too. GM- Delco is an example.
By the 60s that became more pronounced. Borg Warner is the classic example for diffs and gearboxes, or at least components

#1159 johnny yuma

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:42

Those early grey blocks were cast by a outside foundry. Reputedly in Canada. As per the Norm Darwin book and others.
I doubt GM would get them done by a Chrysler company, though very maybe. Even then the majors did share some suppliers, and the majors had control of some of those too. GM- Delco is an example.
By the 60s that became more pronounced. Borg Warner is the classic example for diffs and gearboxes, or at least components

Lee as my post says the Holden Prototype blocks were cast by Campbell,Wyant and Cannon (CWC) a foundry contractor for G.M. (and other car makers)
in the 1940s and later.Their plant was in Muskegon,Michigan about 250km west of Detroit.
My mention of Chrysler Windsor Canada was as a possible way confusion arose after the few CWC stamped blocks which came to Australia in 1946
on the ship Monterey from Vancouver,Canada (along with many other things from the Holden project including the hand built prototypes) were misidentified
as "Canadian Blocks". I do not suggest the CWC prototype blocks were Canadian. They were from Michigan. If you can find a CWC block that would indeed
be a find ! But all Holdens made in Australia had Australian made engines.Otherwise they could not have complied with the 95% local content condition set by
the Federal Government at the time of postwar reconstruction.

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#1160 Librules

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:48

Lee, CWC wasn't a Chrysler company if that's what you're suggesting. It was an independent company and still exists today in name at least.....http://www.cwctextron.com/history.html

#1161 GMACKIE

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:15

GM-H had a bit of help from GM around the world, to get the Holden 'off the ground. I saw a very early Holden that had 'SEKURIT' glass fitted....from Opel, perhaps?

#1162 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:10

I really do hope we can totally bury this 'Canadian Block' myth!

As I think I said before, I never heard of this until at least the eighties, some said they sought out the blocks with thicker castings (ie. that it was known that very early castings were thicker) as early as 1960 or so. And some of those referred to them as 'Canadian Blocks'. But did they do so because they were?

In a like manner, 48/215 Holdens are referred to almost universally as the 'FX'. That means that most people are ignorant of the Holden model numbering system:

1 - K
2 - J
3 - H
4 - G
5 - F
6 - E
7 - D
8 - C
9 - B
0 - A

This can be seen to be true as...

FJ - intended for release in 1952 but body changes not ready, suspension changes introduced about October 1952
FE - released late 1956
FC - released 1958
FB - actual release February 1960, in production late 1959
EK - released 1961
EJ - released 1962
EH - released 1963

About this time the dating method became well enough known for GM to change their system. But as you can readily see, there is no 'X'... along with another 15 or so letters. If this system had been in place, it would have been the GC.

So it's simply a matter of myths taking the place of facts. As for the thicker castings, I'd suggest that the bean counters were on the case early and got the amount of metal poured into each casting reduced by having more accurate patterns made as old ones wore out.

If, as the myth suggests, there was a clearly defined number of the thicker castings around, how would anyone have known? If such knowledge didn't abound until the late fifties, say, where would it have come from?

Who had sonic testers those days? Who was boring blocks out far enough to go through the walls?

Neither referring to Canadian blocks or calling the 48/215 an FX makes any sense at all.

#1163 Ian G

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:08

So it's simply a matter of myths taking the place of facts. As for the thicker castings, I'd suggest that the bean counters were on the case early and got the amount of metal poured into each casting reduced by having more accurate patterns made as old ones wore out.

If, as the myth suggests, there was a clearly defined number of the thicker castings around, how would anyone have known? If such knowledge didn't abound until the late fifties, say, where would it have come from?

Who had sonic testers those days? Who was boring blocks out far enough to go through the walls?

Neither referring to Canadian blocks or calling the 48/215 an FX makes any sense at all.


I don't know either way but as i posted in another thread Robin Orlando had a pile(7 or 8) in the corner of his shed that he said had thicker walls and he could tell by the engine number instead of his earlier trial and error method that ruined blocks. He used a special Weslite piston in them,Lynx wouldn't bore them out to that size or use the Weslite piston so hard to know what the facts are.

#1164 johnny yuma

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:06

I don't know either way but as i posted in another thread Robin Orlando had a pile(7 or 8) in the corner of his shed that he said had thicker walls and he could tell by the engine number instead of his earlier trial and error method that ruined blocks. He used a special Weslite piston in them,Lynx wouldn't bore them out to that size or use the Weslite piston so hard to know what the facts are.

Google up David Hayward's Automotive History--The Holden Car Project. It's all interesting ,but towards the end of the 38 pages he talks Engine blocks,including a change that was made in I think 1951 or 1952 where the Welch Plugs were made bigger to assist sand composite removal after casting from the Cores which sit inside the Mold of the block proper to create the water jackets.If these cores are not exactly in place relative to the bore centres as dictated by the crankshaft,then you will have a slightly off centre water jacket with resultant uneven cylinder walls.It is suggested the post -welch plug change blocks were not as "even" as the first couple of years production,but who knows? Certainly the EJ blocks were sought later,but all the big kahunas in grey motor hotup were boring out to three and a quarter plus,well before the EJ model arrived.

Edited by johnny yuma, 05 February 2013 - 05:07.


#1165 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:06

Click on this link to read the Hayward's efforts...

The story relates this: "The first cars all ran CWC Blocks, with local castings coming in from January 1949."

It also said that the production number in 1948 totaled 163 cars, 1949 saw 7,724 built. Without a date in January to work from, and knowing that supply lead times for the castings would have meant they probably overran the January date, it's reasonable to conclude that there might have been 300 to 350 CWC blocks produced.

I didn't see where the welch plug change was mentioned.

#1166 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:36

We are going over old territory. Not a secret those very early cars had the thickest blocks. The imported blocks, not the local production which started when? mid /late 49.. Those are the blocks that would go to 3 1/4. Others were very shaky at 3 3/16. EJ blocks seemed to be thicker too. Though by then [late 60s] less people wanted them, red motor was the go!
Holden seemed to make their early production motors better and thicker. 179HPs generally bore further. I have seen 198ci, using 272 Ford pistons. I have seen plenty at 186+080. That is .142.5 of an inch over stock. Not quite the greys 1/4" though. early 202s go 060 ok. Late ones struggle at 030.And those castings were terible, dags and flash everywhere. And a lot of coreshift too.Coupled with ADR27A some were just constant boilers, even with V8 radiators.
Wether boring those red motors very large made much power though is debateable. or did it just make big cube motors with flexy cylinders. Meaning more than a fair amount of leakdown. In road cars maybe with mild compression and RPM. Race engines almost certainly not. Though tryin g to find a std bore HP block seems impossible. I need one for a GpN EH motor! Probably have to use a 173 and they are hard now too. Especially a HQ/ LC/ LJ one that is not rusty.

#1167 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:41

He says, as I posted above, that local block production started in January, 1949...

So I put a prospective figure of 300 to 350 Michigan blocks in total. To think that Robin Orlando might have captured all that many of these ('7 or 8 in a pile'... plus what he'd used already) out of a total of not more than 350 spread right across the country is unreasonable.

Much more reasonable to consider it possible that the early Australian castings were thicker in the bores. Perhaps, even, deliberately so as they allowed that foundry techniques might not be perfect and core shift would be inevitable in the early days of production.

I agree with you about the potential for leakdown, too. My nephew successfully builds quite a number of HQ race engines and he's sure they have flexing in the bores. But everyone wants 0.060" oversize and the pistons come like that and what else do you do?

#1168 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 21:58

He says, as I posted above, that local block production started in January, 1949...

So I put a prospective figure of 300 to 350 Michigan blocks in total. To think that Robin Orlando might have captured all that many of these ('7 or 8 in a pile'... plus what he'd used already) out of a total of not more than 350 spread right across the country is unreasonable.

Much more reasonable to consider it possible that the early Australian castings were thicker in the bores. Perhaps, even, deliberately so as they allowed that foundry techniques might not be perfect and core shift would be inevitable in the early days of production.

I agree with you about the potential for leakdown, too. My nephew successfully builds quite a number of HQ race engines and he's sure they have flexing in the bores. But everyone wants 0.060" oversize and the pistons come like that and what else do you do?

There was more than that, around a thousand is what I have always read.
HQ engines at 060 are a waste of time. They all flex at that. Some strike water too.77-80 blocks especially.
All the succesfull engines I have seen, that as a sealer a lot have been max 040.
John Lewis, Maxwill Motors never really wanted to take them further. They reckoned they could feel them flexing when finish honing. That is 202s only though.

#1169 Ian G

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 22:00

He says, as I posted above, that local block production started in January, 1949...
Much more reasonable to consider it possible that the early Australian castings were thicker in the bores. Perhaps, even, deliberately so as they allowed that foundry techniques might not be perfect and core shift would be inevitable in the early days of production.


It may have been revised castings to allow more water flow,didn't the early models overheat in the Oz. summers?.I remember reading many years ago there were "undisclosed problems" that were swept under the carpet by GMH & the Govt. to make sure the first "Australian" car had a successful launch.

#1170 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 22:52

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
There was more than that, around a thousand is what I have always read.....


Lee, did you read the story that was linked above?

It's clear that you can read anything anywhere, it doesn't have to be right.

I'm well prepared to accept that there was more than a thousand blocks with thicker cylinder walls around, but it is clear that many or all of those were cast in Australia. The myth that we're clearing up here is the 'Canadian blocks' myth. There were none!

Whether there were blocks with thicker cylinder walls or not is not really the discussion, because that could (and would...) have happened for a variety of reasons.

What isn't stated, by the way, is whether or not the Michigan-cast blocks were machined locally. I would suggest that they were.

Ian G, I don't know anything about that. but I would also suggest that if there was a problem with water flow caused by thickness of the castings, and that race engine builders sought out those blocks to build their engines, then they would have been in trouble at the track with them.

#1171 275 GTB-4

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 23:17

It may have been revised castings to allow more water flow,didn't the early models overheat in the Oz. summers?.I remember reading many years ago there were "undisclosed problems" that were swept under the carpet by GMH & the Govt. to make sure the first "Australian" car had a successful launch.


I bought a new HX in 76...they were so choked down with pollution gear, run too lean and had something like a 180 degree thermostat....all to meet the pollution specs and to partly address the fuel crisis.

A 160 degree thermostat cured most of the overheating problems...but the package was asthmatic and down on power....what a lemon! (and muggins here bought one!) :clap:

#1172 johnny yuma

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 23:47

Ray Bell thanks for pointing out to me the CWC Blocks being used until January 1949,don't know how I missed that.It makes
it highly likely there were hundreds of CWC blocks in Australia. I guess the fact they were Michigan blocks not Canadian blocks
can allow those on both sides of the argument to feel vindicated somewhat. Historical research is best left to the professionals,
but I certainly would be broke and hungry if I were one !

There are still questions on the OLD HOLDEN BLOCKS,but at least the Canadian myth seems terminally wounded.....

Edited by johnny yuma, 05 February 2013 - 23:48.


#1173 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:23

Johnny, I would say there's a fair chance that both the Michigan-cast blocks and the early Australian blocks were thicker in the bores...

In the US they weren't yet into saving iron. Cars were getting bigger and heavier, it simply wasn't a concern, and I've no doubt the stuff was pretty cheap there.

But the Holden was always going to be built to a budget and it was always going to be light, so both the bean counters and the engineering people would have been on the lookout for ways to save iron.

I would say it would be fair to hypothesise that as soon as the patterns and block castings arrived the engineering boys would have been looking at remaking the patterns to thin things down. That might mean a couple of months of development, so perhaps up to March or so the cars had the thicker castings.

It would be interesting to know what engine number Robin Orlando had sussed out...

#1174 Ian G

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:56

It would be interesting to know what engine number Robin Orlando had sussed out...


I Don't know Ray,it would have been around 1966 that we were talking to him,if the blocks were scarce he had many years to acquire them.It just stuck in my mind and i always remember it when the Canadian Block discussion gets revived,what we really wanted was for him to take the covers off his MGA Twin Cam to get a look,he never did it.
No expert on all this but i think a lot of the early "bits & pieces" were invoiced to GMH from GM Ontario to get the benefits(as already mentioned) of the Commonwealth Tariffs and this is where the Canadian Block stories may have originated.

#1175 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:13

Lee, did you read the story that was linked above?

It's clear that you can read anything anywhere, it doesn't have to be right.

I'm well prepared to accept that there was more than a thousand blocks with thicker cylinder walls around, but it is clear that many or all of those were cast in Australia. The myth that we're clearing up here is the 'Canadian blocks' myth. There were none!

Whether there were blocks with thicker cylinder walls or not is not really the discussion, because that could (and would...) have happened for a variety of reasons.

What isn't stated, by the way, is whether or not the Michigan-cast blocks were machined locally. I would suggest that they were.

Ian G, I don't know anything about that. but I would also suggest that if there was a problem with water flow caused by thickness of the castings, and that race engine builders sought out those blocks to build their engines, then they would have been in trouble at the track with them.

Ray, I very much doubt a foundry would tool up to make less than a thousand, maybe more. They may have started casting here early 49, but they needed engines to get the cars out of the factory. Less just in time in those days. Though I am pretty sure it was later 49 that the local blocks came on line. the Aussie parts % got higher as the years wore on.
As someone mentioned really it dont matter where they were cast the things were almost certainly invoiced out of Canada to keep the money in the Commonwealth

#1176 275 GTB-4

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:49

Has anyone done a chronology on local foundry involvement and whether engines/castings might have been sent to the US as part of the production ramp-up?

#1177 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:58

I chased up a couple of new sources today, people well in the know on things and one who's written several books about Holdens...

The long and the short of it is that there is evidence that there were none, zero, Michigan-cast blocks used in production. They made just ten... Lee, they were a jobbing foundry, they would do such numbers, someone had to do prototyping.

There is also evidence that early blocks were thicker in the walls, and that ones that had not suffered core shift were good for bigger rebores, but the numbers are far larger than a simple thousand. I'll make further enquiries to establish what these sources reckon on this line.

#1178 Ian G

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 22:02

The early history of Holden is an interesting topic,i never get tired of reading about the in & outs of it.


Mick,its Red now and living in Qld. the last i heard.

http://www.shannons....58-mg-a-twincam

#1179 johnny yuma

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 23:46

How long does a mold last ? How many molds would have existed in GMH foundry at any given time ? Would it have been a simple matter to
remove the CWC logo from a mold and place the GMH logo instead ? The iron poured into the mold would have been Australian,so that would
satisfy the 95% local content requirement. It was Don Loffler's book "She's a Beauty" which has the info about the welch plug changes in 1951
when new mold or molds were made,this was at about engine number 32000.Perhaps all the blocks cast before this time used the Michigan
molds with GMH logo in place of the CWC .As far as I can surmise the mold/s arrived on the "Wanganella" pre-1948 along with any stuff from The
Holden Project",as it was useless to anyone in North America but quite vital here.We could pour Australian iron into these molds until they
needed replacing,and not affect the 95% content rule.
Am I making sense here ? I know little about what happens in a foundry .

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#1180 Ellis French

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:29

[quote name='johnny yuma' date='Feb 7 2013, 00:46' post='6119958']
How long does a mold last ?


(a) The mould (sand...used to be mixed with molasses) is formed upside down (ie 6 cylinders of sand sticking up on top like sand castles) Sand is dropped from a hopper.
(b) Casing shell/s fitted over mould...can be bolted together
© Mould sand compressed/compacted by about 5 times and baked.
(d) Casting poured
(e) Cooled
(f) Casing shell/s removed
(g) Moulding sand broken away /removed by machine vibration for outer and manually for inner thru welsh plug holes etc.
Depending on operator some or a lot of sand did remain in block.

Casing/shell used indefinetly.
Most manufacturers had date / code cast on block etc and this was changed daily

This is 50's / 60's method.
No doubt modern castings all automated


#1181 johnny yuma

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:09

Thanks Ellis..so now we have a casing/shell,which lasts quite a while,then moulds which are broken after each block is created,along with the cores that create the water jackets.
Could the casing/shell or shells have been brought to Australia from Michigan and used,as you say'indefinitely....or at least up to block number 30,000 or whatever ? But how many
casings/shells would be needed to produce molds at a Mass Production rate ? Did all the molds come off the one casing/shell.....more please !

Technically there seems little room in this discussion for Canadian Blocks if we accept they would have been whole blocks brought in by ship,not manufactured with Australian
iron,not using Michigan casings/shells,or huge numbers of Michigan or Canadian sand moulds, or Cores.

The only answer seems to be ..surprise surprise...ALL HOLDENS HAD HOLDEN BLOCKS. Who would have thought it !!

To me it smacks of the old Cultural Cringe---Australia can't do stuff as well as foreigners OR your typical Motor Racing self appointed Guru who has to attribute his success...
...or lack of it...to technical reasons such as "I used Canadian Blocks" or "He used Canadian Blocks but I couldn't find one,but I must believe they exist or else I'm a loser."

Edited by johnny yuma, 07 February 2013 - 22:15.


#1182 Ellis French

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:41

Johnny

Sorry....Cant help at all with numbers....just the principle



#1183 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:14

The molds did have to be renovated regularly...

Casting numbers on Chrysler blocks indicated how many times the mold had been renovated. Sand wears stuff, it seems.

#1184 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:22

I just found the relevant section in the Norm Darwin book. Quote. 'the first 48/215s ran Canadian cast blocks and Scottish forged steel cranks. The Australian cast blocks came into being at engine no 1002January 49. These Canadian blocks were popular with the racing fraternity as they could be bored to 3 1/4+ 040'
Darwin had access to GMH archives when he wrote the book.
One suspects that a 1000 blocks were cast and imported from Canada. As I said before it makes no sense for a handfull of blocks to be cast, most manufacturers could make a 1000 for the same cost as a couple of dozen . The tooling up is the major cost.
I hope the hell this is taken into acount here as everybody seems to have all sorts of theorys, often quite whacky!

#1185 johnny yuma

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:08

Yet another source( FX-FJ Holden Home page) has a list of Holden engine production for 1949 by month,and their engine numbers.
January 387 Engines,February 318,March 485 etc. By the end of December they had made 8862 engines by this source,FROM #1001 TO
#9862. 1949 MODEL HOLDENS completed for that year is stated at 7,724. Before that 163 Holdens are said to have been made in 1948.

The last engine made in January was #1387,which reflects the assertion the numbering began at 1001. not 1.

HOWEVER,they would be numbered as completed engines one would think,not just completed blocks.

The same source has 163 FX cars made in 1948.If their engines were not made in Australia,where did they
come from? What engine numbers do 1948 Holdens have ? Or did the engine numbering really commence in time
for the 1948 models to have engine numbers within the system of 1001 and up ?

Edited by johnny yuma, 08 February 2013 - 05:16.


#1186 GMACKIE

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:24

Ray will do his BLOCK if people keep CASTING doubt on the myth of the 'Canada' connection. At least it's not too BORING.

#1187 Repco22

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 00:16

Ray will do his BLOCK if people keep CASTING doubt on the myth of the 'Canada' connection. At least it's not too BORING.

Ah! My ultimate dream car; An FX Holden with a Canadian block and an independent De Dion rear end! :lol:

#1188 Librules

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 00:31

Ah! My ultimate dream car; An FX Holden with a Canadian block and an independent De Dion rear end! :lol:


I'm pretty sure the half-brother of my Great-Aunt on my step-fathers's side saw one in the shed of his de facto's butcher out in western NSW within the last decade or three................

#1189 Ian G

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:12

This Canadian Block thing really is Groundhog day,i enjoy reading the posts but the discussion has been going on for 50 years that i know of.

#1190 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:22

As a matter of interest those early cars did not have the local content of the later ones.As the years wore on they got more and more local content. Real early cars had imported glass, and most engine components!! electricals even trim material. By 56 it would have been mostly Australian, right through to the 90s when local content went down and down. Probably 50% these days. Really little more than assembly plants, Holden Ford and Toymota.
And seemingly the New Commodore of 2016 will be a front drive Euro or US sourced car assembled in Oz. Like the Cruze, a Daewoo pressed and assembled in Australia.

#1191 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:23

This Canadian Block thing really is Groundhog day,i enjoy reading the posts but the discussion has been going on for 50 years that i know of.

Read the Norm Darwin book. And actually 65 years!

#1192 Repco22

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:00

I'm pretty sure the half-brother of my Great-Aunt on my step-fathers's side saw one in the shed of his de facto's butcher out in western NSW within the last decade or three................

Sounds like a furphy to me, Librules. Are you sure the De Dion rear end was independent?

#1193 Librules

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:20

Sounds like a furphy to me, Librules. Are you sure the De Dion rear end was independent?

Unfortunately not. I believe it leaned to the left.

#1194 GMACKIE

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:24

Probably only independent on ONE side.....not as good as a double-independent De Dion, eh, Rod? Note:- that's not EH.

#1195 GMACKIE

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:34

I believe it leaned to the left.

Don't think it's a good idea to bring politics into this, Lib. :rolleyes:


#1196 Librules

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:53

Don't think it's a good idea to bring politics into this, Lib. :rolleyes:

......'twas truly in jest, m'lord. For any concerned readers, I never talk politics on line, and rarely in the flesh. My user ID relates to my love of F/Libre, particularly hillclimbers, and nothing else.

#1197 GMACKIE

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:26

......'twas truly in jest, m'lord. For any concerned readers, I never talk politics on line, and rarely in the flesh. My user ID relates to my love of F/Libre, particularly hillclimbers, and nothing else.

Apologies if my reply appeared to be serious. :blush: It also was truly in jest. I share your interest in F/Libre, having built a couple of [motorcycle engine powered] hillclimbers over the years.


#1198 SJ Lambert

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:14

Sounds like a furphy to me, Librules. Are you sure the De Dion rear end was independent?



Surely, you can build 'em to Formula Libre Rules these days?

#1199 275 GTB-4

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:20

Pssst Lambert....Greg does not like to be called Shirley :|

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#1200 SJ Lambert

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:28

Thanks for being Frank and Ernest with me. I'll stop calling him Shirley!

Edited by SJ Lambert, 09 February 2013 - 20:55.