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Grand Prix de Magny-Cours 2008 thread


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#451 Paul McLucas

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 23:00

Originally posted by Lada Lover
The exhaust pipe is made from inconel which is a nickel based alloy. It was probablt too hot to remove safely and someone in the Ferrari pit would have been burned.

The super collider is going to accelerate .026 cubic mm of hydrogen to a speed where it has the same kinetic energy as the TGV going 180 kph. Some scientists are going to court to have the test stopped as the whole of the Earth could be destroyed. Stuff happens.


Rally mechanics work on hot exhausts all the time. You use gloves.

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#452 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 23:04

Originally posted by pingu666
given how hard it is to overtake in f1 now, pretty easy to see why lewis kept his foot on the go faster peddle...


Ahhh, but keeping your foot on the go faster peddle, when it should be on the go slower peddle, is a bad mistake.;)

#453 Sneezy

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 23:16

A nice result for Ferrari although obviously unlucky for Kimi. On the other hand Felipe was unlucky last year in France when he hit traffic during the 2nd round of stops. This gave Kimi the chance to jump him. I guess it's par for the course regarding both of them in France. Felipe should have won last year and Kimi this year. Obviously Kimi wants the win from last year because he ended up winning the WDC by 1 point.

Sadly for Lewis the penalty was justified again. He can't blame anybody but himself. He should be smart enough and give back the gained position as soon as possible. He would have avoided that drive through then.

I wonder what's going on with Fernando. Prior to the season most said that drivers like Felipe and Robert will struggle without TC and Fernando will shine relatively to competitiveness of the car. But it seems it's actually him who's struggling the most. How many mistakes has he made? I've lost count.

Toyota and Red Bull are clearly making progress.

#454 pingu666

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 23:24

maybe... id rather see the drivers go for it tho

#455 Anomnader

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:36

Originally posted by Sneezy

Sadly for Lewis the penalty was justified again. He can't blame anybody but himself. He should be smart enough and give back the gained position as soon as possible. He would have avoided that drive through then.
. [/B]


You say its justified, but many others, including those working in F1 and Media don't agree, who is right?

#456 Ricardo F1

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:38

Originally posted by Sneezy
Sadly for Lewis the penalty was justified again. He can't blame anybody but himself. He should be smart enough and give back the gained position as soon as possible. He would have avoided that drive through then.

Why? He passed Vettel before the corner. What he should have done is turn into the right hander properly and have Vettel spin him by clobbering his back wheel. That would have been far better. :up:

Feel very sorry for Kimi, but he should have been black flagged. So lucky that exhaust went flying into the gravel trap. Massa must be thinking the stars, 4 point gain on Kimi that he couldn't have expected at 1pm. Great drive by Heikki as well, I really though Trulli was going to just drive into him on a few occasions. Great result for Jarno, but the tactics, especially that last jink, were a bit questionable.

#457 Raelene

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:44

McLaren and Lewis would have been smarter giving the place back. Whilst he didn't gain the position by cutting the chicance - there is a strong possibility he kept the position by cutting the chicane ...

IMO he shouldn't have got a penalty - it was too marginal - and benefit should have gone to the driver.

I'm just saying they could have played it much smarter.

#458 RSNS

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:48

An eventful race.

Raikkonen deserved victory and I was very happy to see that Massa acknowledged that. He was totally honest and I admired him for that.

Hamilton is living in pure paranoia and made a complete balls up of his job.

I liked to see Truli in the podium. He resisted Kovalainen as he could despite poor traction.

BMW is losing ground.

Alonso was fast but also made the worst of it.

I'm getting quite fed up with Hamilton's tantrums. I like the way he drives, but he behaves like a spoiled brat.

.

#459 Anomnader

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:49

Originally posted by Raelene
McLaren and Lewis would have been smarter giving the place back. Whilst he didn't gain the position by cutting the chicance - there is a strong possibility he kept the position by cutting the chicane ...

IMO he shouldn't have got a penalty - it was too marginal - and benefit should have gone to the driver.

I'm just saying they could have played it much smarter.


I think as with other teams in the past they were prepared to argue the toss as it was so marginal

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#460 F575 GTC

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:49

Originally posted by Anomnader


You say its justified, but many others, including those working in F1 and Media don't agree, who is right?


It depends on your whose side of the fence your sitting on.

With regards to the incident, is there any sort of press release avaliable for it? On ITV it was stated as "Missing an apex and gaining an advantage" and didn't mention gaining a place; but i can't see anything on the FIA website about it. According to 5Live the stewards apparantly saw CCTV footage of it and based the ruling on that, not just the onboard video we've all seen.

The video itself is a bit dodgy to say the least. You can't see where abouts Vettel was in regards to Lewis, other than he was beside him somewhere, but was he directly behind or level with the rear wheels or what? It's not clear cut from that video but to me at least it looks like he did gain an advantage with cutting the corner, it wasn't really a good move from him at any rate.

Other than that the race wasn't worth bothering with. Kimi was unlucky with the exhaust problem, but Massa drove well at anyrate really warrented the win just as much. Either of them winning would have been deserved to be honest. Trulli did well too, unlike Nick who was virtually non-exsistant for the entire weekend, very dissappointing (from BMW full stop really) considering Canada...certainly proves that Roberts win was very lucky and that BMW aren't fully up to competing with the top two just yet.

#461 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:50

Originally posted by jesee


It might be wonderful for ferari, but which purist motor-racing fan want to sit and watch such a procession. Except for trulli and piquet this is a race i would rather forget in terms of entertainment :down: :down:


Ferrari clearly have superior speed to the other squads... not an issue!? :confused:

Obviously superior speed will allow for a amiable 1-2 for the Ferrari mechanics and engineers for which they will be most pleased. :up:

#462 Raelene

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:53

Originally posted by Anomnader


I think as with other teams in the past they were prepared to argue the toss as it was so marginal


to be honest I can't remember it happening much in recent times, because most of the drivers do give the place back.

When it happened I said to my friends - he should give the place back - he didn't, he got punished - agian - marginal, but IMO he did gain an advantage by cutting the chicane - he wouldn't have kept the position without doing that.

#463 Anomnader

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:53

Originally posted by F575 GTC


It depends on your whose side of the fence your sitting on.

With regards to the incident, is there any sort of press release avaliable for it? On ITV it was stated as "Missing an apex and gaining an advantage" and didn't mention gaining a place; but i can't see anything on the FIA website about it. According to 5Live the stewards apparantly saw CCTV footage of it and based the ruling on that, not just the onboard video we've all seen.



Well, I will 100% argue and fight that he didn't GAIN a place, I will defend that to my death,

did he KEEP a place because of it, well, that the question in my mind.




If the CCTV footage is so convincing, why wasn't it released rather then the media and fans getting their knickers in the twist about percieved witch hunting going on by FIA stewards

#464 Raelene

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:55

did he KEEP a place because of it, well, that the question in my mind.


I think he did - he had to cut the chichane or face a crash - he took the lesser of the two options.

My real question is - did he realise, going into the pass, that he'd have to cut the chicane....

#465 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:55

Originally posted by Lada Lover
The exhaust pipe is made from inconel which is a nickel based alloy. It was probablt too hot to remove safely and someone in the Ferrari pit would have been burned.

The super collider is going to accelerate .026 cubic mm of hydrogen to a speed where it has the same kinetic energy as the TGV going 180 kph. Some scientists are going to court to have the test stopped as the whole of the Earth could be destroyed. Stuff happens.


Sorry but I would dip into my Tim The Toolman box and get a set of pliers, and a cutter, then hold it with the plier, while cutting with the cutter. Could even have used two guys for that.

They could have taken it of, and they should have.

:cool:

#466 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:57

Originally posted by Anomnader


You say its justified, but many others, including those working in F1 and Media don't agree, who is right?


Those 'working in F1 and Media' do not agree.

Lewis have accepted the penalty.

McLaren have accepted the penalty.

Can you name some who do agree, who are in any way 'working in F1'??



:cool:

#467 Anomnader

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 00:58

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


Those 'working in F1 and Media' do not agree.

Lewis have accepted the penalty.

McLaren have accepted the penalty.

Can you name some who do agree, who are in any way 'working in F1'??



:cool:


What do you expect them to say with Max in charge? If you don't know the score, many many others do.

#468 F575 GTC

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:03

The thing is, he doesn't turn in at the same time as he would normally, he turns in later for the corner which is why he misses the apex and goes flying off onto the run-off - that would suggest that Vettel was still alongside his car somewhere but we can't see because of the video. He certainly gained an advantage with it though.

Well the FIA don't have to release the footage. I mean, AF Corse had footage of Prospeed supposedly violating a rule at Monza for the FIA GT race - which has been thrown out on appeal - but i've not seen the footage of that either!

#469 Anomnader

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:06

Originally posted by F575 GTC
The thing is, he doesn't turn in at the same time as he would normally, he turns in later for the corner which is why he misses the apex and goes flying off onto the run-off - that would suggest that Vettel was still alongside his car somewhere but we can't see because of the video. He certainly gained an advantage with it though.

But if Vettel was at his side then that would give him justification for going up the chicane rather then causing an accident.
But we can't see that as its not on the video, so how can you say he gained an advantage when you have no idea if he did or didn;t?

#470 F575 GTC

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:11

Originally posted by Anomnader

But if Vettel was at his side then that would give him justification for going up the chicane rather then causing an accident.
But we can't see that as its not on the video, so how can you say he gained an advantage when you have no idea if he did or didn;t?


If Vettel was at the side like that it would also justify gaining a position by going off the track. If you watch the video he's beside Vettel as they get to the corner, he goes across the run-off and appears ahead of the Toro Rosso (not by a small amount or level with any bit of the other car) and behind the Red Bull, had he not gained even a small advantage of just a few meters or a car length, Vettel would have been right behind or level with him after the chicane.

#471 Anomnader

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:14

Originally posted by F575 GTC


If Vettel was at the side like that it would also justify gaining a position by going off the track. If you watch the video he's beside Vettel as they get to the corner, h


Well, no, if you watch the video, it seems he has overtaken Vettal in my opinion

#472 Italiano Tifoso

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:16

Originally posted by Anomnader

But if Vettel was at his side then that would give him justification for going up the chicane rather then causing an accident.
But we can't see that as its not on the video, so how can you say he gained an advantage when you have no idea if he did or didn;t?

The question is not whether Lewis avoided an accident, it is a question of whether he had completed the pass in time before he went over the chicane.

I think it is pretty clear cut, the reason he went over the chicane was because he out braked himself when trying to get past Vettel, therefore he gained a position unfairly.

He and the team had two options,

1. Let Vettel pass again and re take him the next lap as he clearly had a faster car

OR

2. Get the team to ask the stewards if they want Lewis to let Vettel through, that way they are on the front foot and are not waiting for the stewards to impose a penalty.

They did neither.

Vettel did the same thing as lewis and immediately let the cars go through because it was an unfair pass. Had there been a wall there instead of astro turf it would have been game over.

Anyone who doesn't agree with this decision is incredibly stupid and wearing the tinted glasses they accuse so many Ferrari fans of wearing.

I thought the calibre of this board would see this punishment as just and fair and not debate it...guess not.

#473 bond

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:18

If you look at the cockpit video i posted around sec 21 you should see that there's no way that vettel could be along side hamilton...
He lost the rear when he was well inside the chicaneand only misses the exit apex because he had to correct it.
He didn't cutr the chicane like people here are trying to make us believe.
If he had cut the chicane, then why did he made the first turn to the right? you can see him clearly making that turn and only after that he misses the exit turn to the left.
He had already gained the position before the chicane...

#474 F575 GTC

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:18

Originally posted by Anomnader


Well, no, if you watch the video, it seems he has overtaken Vettal in my opinion


Well this is where we agree to differ. Had he been fully past Vettel he would have took the corner as normal, he seems to miss the apex because there's something not letting him in turn in as early as he would have.

But anyway, you've got your point of view and i've got mine and we're not going to get anywhere else other than making another page of differing views :lol:

#475 Raelene

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:22

VBond

He had already gained the position before the chicane...


um yeah, most of us agree with that.

We are saying - by cutting the chicane, he held the position.

When he went into the pass - did he go in too hot, knowing that he would have to cut the chicane

Therefore, did he MAINTAIN the position by cutting the chicane?

#476 Raelene

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:22

Bond

He had already gained the position before the chicane...


um yeah, most of us agree with that.

We are saying - by cutting the chicane, he held the position.

When he went into the pass - did he go in too hot, knowing that he would have to cut the chicane

Therefore, did he MAINTAIN the position by cutting the chicane?

#477 CWeil

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 02:25

Originally posted by Lada Lover

The super collider is going to accelerate .026 cubic mm of hydrogen to a speed where it has the same kinetic energy as the TGV going 180 kph. Some scientists are going to court to have the test stopped as the whole of the Earth could be destroyed. Stuff happens.


For the record, it's not scientists that are suing. It's some concerned citizens in Hawaii...it's never going to make it to court because it's inane.

#478 Mila

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 02:39

disappointing that the stewards didn't call in KR to fix his car.

surprising that McLaren didn't have LH pedal back so that SV could resume his position.

puzzling that RK's BMW didn't stay within striking distance of the Toyota and Mclaren in front of it.

#479 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:18

Originally posted by Anomnader

But if Vettel was at his side then that would give him justification for going up the chicane rather then causing an accident.
But we can't see that as its not on the video, so how can you say he gained an advantage when you have no idea if he did or didn;t?


In auto racing, which you seemingly do not understand. It is considered an advantage to overtake a driver in front of you, most auto racing regulatory bodies including the FIA have rules in place governing the actions that you can take and not take to gain such an advantage.

The fact that Hamilton gained a position on track (i.e. overtaking a driver in front of him) by straight lining the chicane is indeed covered by said rules, and there are 3 different penalties, which the stewards can chose to access for such a transgression.

They decided to issue the lightest possible of the three.

You should note that even if the advantage is gained through a mistake by the driver behind, he will still be accessed a penalty, unless he give the position gained which he have gained through the mistake.

It is very simple, you have to race for position, you can not overtake using parts of the track, which are not defined as a racing surface, the grass crete which makes up the chicane is not part of the defined race track.

Meaning that Hamilton have all the right in the world to go straight in order to avoid spinning, or having a coming together with the (or multiple other) driver(s). He simply have to give the position back.

:cool:

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#480 Melbourne Park

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:19

Originally posted by Mila
disappointing that the stewards didn't call in KR to fix his car.


I think the stewards would have asked Ferrari about it.

Ferrari must have said it would not leave the car.

Ferrari also chose to leave it semi-attached to the car when it stopped in the pits - unbelievable.

Then the part became detached.

I think the FIA would have to investigate why the part did come off afterall. I doubt this issue has gone away.

Sorry for Kimi though - its Ferrari's fault though, as the curbs at Magny are brutal, the way the drivers take them, hence such failures are more likely at that track. I don't know if Kimi takes a more brutal line than Massa - maybe he did? Massa had a bad neck on Friday didn't he, and he ran a softer program I think. The track causes back problems because of the curb crashing - which in KR's case damaged his car. Maybe Massa was softer, in order to save his neck, and hence he did not break his car? So :up: to Massa!

Incredible race from Trulli and Toyota. :up: :up: :up: Their new concept continues to close the gap. What a difference an aero track made too. Trulli made up for an issue while driving a Renault at the French track - Trulli was remarkable!

Alonso :up: :up: for his prediction about the football - he was right about the Spanish goalie! I think Piquet got his car this weekend.
;)

And I loved Webber's hanging the tail way too far out on the colds, and then catching it.

#481 steelyman

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:02

Originally posted by Mila

puzzling that RK's BMW didn't stay within striking distance of the Toyota and Mclaren in front of it.


this was puzzling..... i was waiting for him to make a move on HK since he was dicing with trulli and then he starts falling back.

#482 Ricardo F1

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:03

Originally posted by Raelene


I think he did - he had to cut the chichane or face a crash -

Uh, with what? You mean Vettel? Who's nose was about level with Lewis's back wheels. Which means the blame is on Vettel for not letting off a touch.

#483 Raelene

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:57

Ricardo


As I said, I think the benefit of the doubt should have gone with Hamilton

What I am saying is - had he not braked so late (thus having to cut the chicane AFTER THE PASS) - would the pass have worked? I don't think it would have (as does Vettel)...but thinking and knowing are two different things.

Hamilton should have, IMO, given the position back to be on the safe side - would have saved his race.

#484 Mrv

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:32

Another yawner of a race. F1 is sinking lower and lower. :(

#485 hermitkid

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:40

I think it's silly to absolve Hamilton of blame in that situation. Sure, you can argue that Hamilton had position going into the corner, but realistically Hamilton never had a shot to make the corner had he not cut the chicane.

If you're not going to call in Hamilton for a penalty in that situation you open the door for people abusing those corners with regularity, and that's the last thing anybody wants to see.

There's more to passing than just diving into a corner and getting your nose ahead of the other car, and that's all Hamilton did.

#486 wiggles

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:37

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Why? He passed Vettel before the corner. What he should have done is turn into the right hander properly and have Vettel spin him by clobbering his back wheel. That would have been far better. :up:

Feel very sorry for Kimi, but he should have been black flagged. So lucky that exhaust went flying into the gravel trap. Massa must be thinking the stars, 4 point gain on Kimi that he couldn't have expected at 1pm. Great drive by Heikki as well, I really though Trulli was going to just drive into him on a few occasions. Great result for Jarno, but the tactics, especially that last jink, were a bit questionable.


If Hamilton couldn't turn in and claim the racing line, he had not passed. Simple as that.
But Hamilton did turn in properly. He was only 20cm or so off the line the car in front took through that corner. And judging by his speed compared to Vettels, and the time passed since Vettel disappeared from the camera.. Vettel must have backed off in order for Hamilton to turn in at the time he did, and only be 20cm off the line. But as we all know Hamilton didn't make the corner.

Technically, he might have been in front of Vettel when he made the turn. But he had not passed. If you can't make a turn because you go in too hot, you should give up that position and try again. I think the only reason the stewards let the Monza incident slide is because Massa and Hamilton touched there, making Hamilton countersteer.. So you could say he was forced to cut the chicane.

Back to France. If Vettel was along side Hamilton in that corner, even just a little, the case is even clearer. You haven't passed until you can claim the racing line. That means being 100% in front. If Vettel has his front wing alongside Hamiltons rear wheels, he has the right to defend his position and hold his line. If Hamilton then turns in to take the corner, and they touch.. It blame would have been put on Hamilton.

And there was imo nothing at all wrong with the battle between Trulli and Kovaleinen. What questionable tactics? Jink? Only person who "jinked" was Kovaleinen.
That episode was a classic staring contest, in which Kovaleinen blinked first, and is something that is needed in F1.

Judging by your signature I doubt you'll agree with any of this.. But whatever. Just taking 20 minutes out of my morning to share my views with you. :)

#487 kal-el

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:39

Originally posted by SeanValen



Massa is not that good at this track, if he was like Turkey and Bahrain, then I'll be clapping, he was dissapointing here, always has been.


dissapointing??
last year, he would ghave been first but for the traffic.
This year, won.. though not as good as Kimi but would you call that dissapointing?

#488 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:43

Originally posted by wiggles


If Hamilton couldn't turn in and claim the racing line, he had not passed. Simple as that.
But Hamilton did turn in properly. He was only 20cm or so off the line the car in front took through that corner. And judging by his speed compared to Vettels, and the time passed since Vettel disappeared from the camera.. Vettel must have backed off in order for Hamilton to turn in at the time he did, and only be 20cm off the line. But as we all know Hamilton didn't make the corner.

Technically, he might have been in front of Vettel when he made the turn. But he had not passed. If you can't make a turn because you go in too hot, you should give up that position and try again. I think the only reason the stewards let the Monza incident slide is because Massa and Hamilton touched there, making Hamilton countersteer.. So you could say he was forced to cut the chicane.

Back to France. If Vettel was along side Hamilton in that corner, even just a little, the case is even clearer. You haven't passed until you can claim the racing line. That means being 100% in front. If Vettel has his front wing alongside Hamiltons rear wheels, he has the right to defend his position and hold his line. If Hamilton then turns in to take the corner, and they touch.. It blame would have been put on Hamilton.

And there was imo nothing at all wrong with the battle between Trulli and Kovaleinen. What questionable tactics? Jink? Only person who "jinked" was Kovaleinen.
That episode was a classic staring contest, in which Kovaleinen blinked first, and is something that is needed in F1.

Judging by your signature I doubt you'll agree with any of this.. But whatever. Just taking 20 minutes out of my morning to share my views with you. :)

And we thank you for it. You talk sense. :clap: :wave:

#489 Tigershark

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:56

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Why? He passed Vettel before the corner. What he should have done is turn into the right hander properly and have Vettel spin him by clobbering his back wheel. That would have been far better. :up:


Just because Lewis Hamilton says it, doesn't make it true. "I believe I was ahead on the outside and I couldn't turn in on the guy, otherwise we would have crashed" -Autosport.

Let's also take Vettel's opinion into account, especially the part where he said: "I went from the gas and braked and he kept going. For me it was clear that he was going to cut the chicane" -F1Live.

#490 Melbourne Park

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:57

You guys must have had a better picture of that Vettel - Hamilton incident than our telecast provided, I only saw an on-board Hamilton shot which did not show enough for me to have any opinion.

If there's a u-tube of it I'd like to have a look?

#491 wonk123

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:05

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
You guys must have had a better picture of that Vettel - Hamilton incident than our telecast provided, I only saw an on-board Hamilton shot which did not show enough for me to have any opinion.

If there's a u-tube of it I'd like to have a look?


Was thinking much the same thing. I wonder what evidence the stewards had at the time of the decision

#492 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:18

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
You guys must have had a better picture of that Vettel - Hamilton incident than our telecast provided, I only saw an on-board Hamilton shot which did not show enough for me to have any opinion.

If there's a u-tube of it I'd like to have a look?


MP, I watched the race with my good lady, who, as I´ve already said, knows about as much about F1 as Hamilton knows about driving out of the pits when the pit lane lights are on red.
We were about 10 laps into the race when she quite innocently asked, "why have we watched the whole race until now from this chaps (Hamiltons) on board camera shot. I wonder how they are doing up at the front?"

Out of the mouths of babes, and all that...............:rotfl:

#493 Melbourne Park

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:24

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer


MP, I watched the race with my good lady, who, as I´ve already said, knows about as much about F1 as Hamilton knows about driving out of the pits when the pit lane lights are on red.
We were about 10 laps into the race when she quite innocently asked, "why have we watched the whole race until now from this chaps (Hamiltons) on board camera shot. I wonder how they are doing up at the front?"


Your telecast must be like ours. Although nothing was happening up the front anyway, as is usually the case.

I am an Aussie, and sometimes one catches a glimpse of Mark Webber's car. This race was great - we saw him for a record amount of the time. I had forgotten that he can drive the car around the corners too, like all the brilliant drivers up the front do.

Our British commentators mostly talk about how well DC is going, and then they shift to Hamilton again. IF its wet, they talk of Jenson too. And they hate to mention Webber - they sort of whisper his name. One of them is DC's manager too ... I thought the shots of Hamilton would have been great, if he had of been overtaking cars, as was the plan. But he was hardly doing anything - such is contemporary F1.

Your lady is pretty unusual IMO - F1 sends my wife to sleep. She has called it a procession - which unfortunately it now has become.

#494 pullings

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:29

Originally posted by MiPe
Current BMW drivers are pathetic. Kubesquarehead is not a racer with fire in his heart; he just has a fast car beneath him, while wasting a good seat which should be handed over to more deserving drivers. Nick - I am lost for words, but it doesn't looks good for him.


100 % agree but I think Nick deserve BMW seat but he has big problem with tyres and car.
Kubesquarehead show nothing. I think Vettel or Rosberg should done much better.

#495 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:31

oh dear

#496 wonk123

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:33

Originally posted by pullings


100 % agree but I think Nick deserve BMW seat but he has big problem with tyres and car.
Kubesquarehead show nothing. I think Vettel or Rosberg should done much better.


Good God, what does the guy need to do to impress you??

I have had a very high Opinion of Nick for a long time, but lets be frank, Kubica is really showing him up this year. Maybe it wasn't RK's best race, BUT he finished 8 places ahead of Nick

#497 RiDE

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:42

I think Nick's current slump is a fluke. BMWs lineup is fine.

#498 HP

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:48

Originally posted by Anomnader


You say its justified, but many others, including those working in F1 and Media don't agree, who is right?

De facto those making and interpreting the rules. The rest is opinion.

#499 HP

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:50

Originally posted by pullings


100 % agree but I think Nick deserve BMW seat but he has big problem with tyres and car.
Kubesquarehead show nothing. I think Vettel or Rosberg should done much better.

So RK isn't entitled to have problems with the tires an the car? Interesting concept.

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#500 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:54

Originally posted by RiDE
I think Nick's current slump is a fluke. BMWs lineup is fine.

I know he´s a quiet type, but I would like to see Nick being a bit more assertive. Maybe he´s not shouting loudly enough when he´s experiencing problems. By his standards, his race yesterday was poor. He seems to be lacking confidence, and the fact that Kubica´s eclipsing him at present isn´t helping. Nick needs to take the fight to his teammate.
Trouble is, I think he´s essentially a team player, so it´s not something that will come naturally.