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Grand Prix de Magny-Cours 2008 thread


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#551 Gareth

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 12:49

Making a decision a team responsibility does not mean that the drivers are stupid, just that the team are best placed to make the decision. In the case of decisions like this, the team are best placed to make the decision so they make the call and the driver goes along with it.

Sad that you're so desperate to blame Hamilton for not giving up the place that you can't see that this is perfectly sensible.

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#552 Blueray

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 12:59

Originally posted by Gareth
Making a decision a team responsibility does not mean that the drivers are stupid, just that the team are best placed to make the decision. In the case of decisions like this, the team are best placed to make the decision so they make the call and the driver goes along with it.

Sad that you're so desperate to blame Hamilton for not giving up the place that you can't see that this is perfectly sensible.


Its also a drivers responsibilty as it all comes back to him in the end and Hamilton needs to think for himself instead of being babied. It was obvious to the majority watching tv that Hamiltons move was illegal so it should have been obvious to an f1 driver also. Hamilton has no responsiblity though or respect and Mclaren saying he did nothing wrong and that theres nothing wrong with his racing mentality wont help him. I remember Renault giving Alonso a hard time in 2004 when he was making errors and over driving. Look what happened the next two years.

#553 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 13:13

Originally posted by Gareth
Making a decision a team responsibility does not mean that the drivers are stupid, just that the team are best placed to make the decision. In the case of decisions like this, the team are best placed to make the decision so they make the call and the driver goes along with it.

Sad that you're so desperate to blame Hamilton for not giving up the place that you can't see that this is perfectly sensible.

Gareth, firstly let me make it quite clear I´m not trying to "blame" anyone for anything.
The point I´m trying to make is that the decision to lift his foot off the gas peddle and wave Vettel back past is not one that needs outside input.
By your logic the team should be instructing his every move. You know.....Ron to Lewis, Ron to Lewis....accelerate. Ron to Lewis, Ron to Lewis..........brake, and on the count of three turn 42° left.....1 .. 2 .. 3 TURN no, no. Too much. Lewis, the team have decided you need a bit of correction, and we´ve decided on........mmmm......4° right, quick quick.

BTW, what happened to team input before 2 way intercom´s? Did those poor old drivers have to make all those excruciatingly difficult decisions by themselves?

#554 Ricardo F1

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 14:23

Originally posted by wiggles
[B]And there was imo nothing at all wrong with the battle between Trulli and Kovaleinen. What questionable tactics? Jink? Only person who "jinked" was Kovaleinen.
B]

Are you kidding? Trulli pushed out and out and then just flipped the car left into Kovaleinen who did a damn good job of not getting tagged. Heikki should have had him a few laps earlier truth be told, that point of the race track was always going to be more hopeful but I just don't think Trulli needed to do it.

#555 wiggles

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 15:26

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Are you kidding? Trulli pushed out and out and then just flipped the car left into Kovaleinen who did a damn good job of not getting tagged. Heikki should have had him a few laps earlier truth be told, that point of the race track was always going to be more hopeful but I just don't think Trulli needed to do it.

Kovalainen was on the ideal line into the chicane. But Trulli was on the inside, so he had every right for that corner. He did what anyone would have done, and move as far as he could to the left to get the best possible line through the corner with another car by his side. He didn't push Kovalainen off the track, or hit him. Nothing unfair so far.

And I don't remember seeing any jink by Trulli. Link me if you have the footage, cos I don't remember that, and I can't find it anywhere.
If there was one, it was either a psychological play, or Trulli could see there was a couple more cm to spare between him and Kovalainen, and he wanted to take advantage of that before the turn to get as good of a line as he possibly could. There was no contact. Had there been contact, Ron Dennis would be the first person to speak up about it. And Trulli is one of the most experienced and fair drivers in the field. He's not stupid enough to punt someone off track.

#556 Mauseri

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 15:34

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Are you kidding? Trulli pushed out and out and then just flipped the car left into Kovaleinen who did a damn good job of not getting tagged. Heikki should have had him a few laps earlier truth be told, that point of the race track was always going to be more hopeful but I just don't think Trulli needed to do it.

If Heikki had no problem with Trullis defence and genuinely congratulated him for the podium, you should rest the case. I didnt see him do anything wrong. Heikki went a bit optimistically to the pass to see if Trulli would give up, he didnt, so Heikki can only blame himself for not finding room to make it stick. Trulli owned the corner and Heikki took the easy escape.

#557 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 16:13

Originally posted by wiggles

Kovalainen was on the ideal line into the chicane. But Trulli was on the inside, so he had every right for that corner. He did what anyone would have done, and move as far as he could to the left to get the best possible line through the corner with another car by his side. He didn't push Kovalainen off the track, or hit him. Nothing unfair so far.

And I don't remember seeing any jink by Trulli. Link me if you have the footage, cos I don't remember that, and I can't find it anywhere.
If there was one, it was either a psychological play, or Trulli could see there was a couple more cm to spare between him and Kovalainen, and he wanted to take advantage of that before the turn to get as good of a line as he possibly could. There was no contact. Had there been contact, Ron Dennis would be the first person to speak up about it. And Trulli is one of the most experienced and fair drivers in the field. He's not stupid enough to punt someone off track.

There was contact, but it was OK. Nothing to get worked up about.
Kovalainen used the wrong tactic IMO. He should have been trying to get as close to Trulli´s rear as possible under braking for the hairpin. Instead, he was pretending to attack Trulli down the inside, trying to force a mistake, something Trulli knew was just bluff. He should then have late appexed concentrating on as fast an exit as possible up the inside of Trulli. He was getting good grip under acceleration, while Trulli was suffering bad wheelspin problems. He could have got alongside before the kink and would have had the inside for the chicane. Who knows if it would have worked, but by not even trying the move, and repeating something that was obviously not working, he never gave himself a chance to find out.

#558 Melbourne Park

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 23:52

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

There was contact, but it was OK. Nothing to get worked up about.
Kovalainen used the wrong tactic IMO. He should have been trying to get as close to Trulli´s rear as possible under braking for the hairpin. Instead, he was pretending to attack Trulli down the inside, trying to force a mistake, something Trulli knew was just bluff. He should then have late appexed concentrating on as fast an exit as possible up the inside of Trulli. He was getting good grip under acceleration, while Trulli was suffering bad wheelspin problems. He could have got alongside before the kink and would have had the inside for the chicane. Who knows if it would have worked, but by not even trying the move, and repeating something that was obviously not working, he never gave himself a chance to find out.


Phew - I don't blaim Kova for not getting by. This is modern F1, and Trulli's tyres had cleaned up after their graining issue. Kova tried to pass several times - I was surprised Kova got as close as he did. I reckon his attempt was worth it - you just might have caught Jarno off guard for a split second. But it wasn't to be. Neither was it anywhere else on that track, even in a more red than white car (Ferrari's new colors) I reckon.

#559 bond

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 23:59

Question to Martin Whitmarsh

Before taking his penalty, was Lewis asked over the radio to drop back and cede the position back to Vettel?

"We weren't aware that the incident was questionable until a number of laps later when it was displayed on our monitors that Car 22 was under investigation. At that point, we asked the FIA for a clarification and were informed of the incident at Turn Seven. When the footage was replayed, it looked to us as if Lewis was comfortably past the other car before he straightlined the chicane. We expressed our opinion to the FIA but, by that point it was not possible to ask Lewis to drop back and relinquish the position. If somebody had told us about it at the time, we would have asked the race director if he wanted us to give the place back. In the cockpit, Lewis felt he was already ahead when he made the mistake and didn't feel it was an issue to raise with the team.

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#560 Melbourne Park

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:00

Originally posted by Melbourne Park


That's not what I said though. What I said was that if Lewis had collided with the left side of Vettel's car, then IMO the stewards would have declared it a racing incident.

Don't you agree?


I have quoted myself, but Rhodie, I ask you the question again! Your answer has been invisible on my screen! :lol: Do you think that if Lewis had of collided with Vettel's car, that the stewards would have declared it a racing incident?

#561 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 08:11

Originally posted by Melbourne Park


I have quoted myself, but Rhodie, I ask you the question again! Your answer has been invisible on my screen! :lol: Do you think that if Lewis had of collided with Vettel's car, that the stewards would have declared it a racing incident?

Sorry MP, I missed that.
IMO, if he had collided with Vettel in that instance, no, They would have blamed Lewis for dangerous driving, or driving without due regard or something along those lines. And again, IMO, they would have been justified. He wasn´t past Vettel where he should have been turning in if he had intended taking the turn in the first place. (besides the fact he was travelling to quickly to take the turn with the amount of road he had available). Had he turned when he should have, he would most definitely have collected a front wheel in the side of his cockpit.
But Lewis knows all this, as it wasn´t his first car race, and to come out with all the BS about being past etc etc, makes me sad. The guy shows so little real character. His actions on track are mirrored by his words off track I´m afraid. In a word, dishonest.

#562 AFCA

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:46

- Vasselon on the Magny-Cours updates: ''We were able to bring a more extensive package than we had actually planned. You always have a pre-fixed update that you introduce at a certain time - and then it can always happen that suddenly first signs and possibilities pop up in the windtunnel, that prove to be useful whilst you didn't anticpate them at all.''

This is exactly what happened to Toyota prior to the French GP. The team came with a new front- and rearwing, as well as a number of additional elements.

Glock's judgement: ''The rearend is clearly more stable.''

Vasselon backs up his driver: ''More downforce always brings more stability. Now we can also do more in this area with the mechanics of the car.''

Trulli: ''This was my best race since a long time. Incredibly tiring because I had to fight against a clearly faster car. I didn't think I would make it.''

Despite Glock finding the car more stable, the German complained about strong tyre wear at both tyres at the left, and graining at both reartyres. Trulli: ''Strange. During qualifying in Montreal I shortly went another way with the set-up. It didn't work at all. Here we both went different ways again - but we weren't as far apart as two weeks ago.''

Dernie: ''This has to do with experience. Jarno has been driving for Ligier. He has probably driven more laps round this track than any other driver.''

- Red Bull was moving in the other direction. The frontwing with which Webber did an impressive run at Barcelona during testing, didn't work at all. The Australian: ''No stability in the long third corner. We're really surprised about that.''

Horner: ''Over the long runs at Barcelona we were at McLaren's level - but we haven't been able to repeat that here. It is probably related to the fact that the asphalt is so special. After the free practice sessions on Friday we returned to the wing we used in Monaco. The new one will now come (again) at Silverstone.''

- Symonds keep persisting Renault is better than their results reflect: ''Since the Spanish GP we've actually been the fourth force. But so far we haven't been able to turn this into countable results.''

Alonso's good starting position was due to a relatively small fuel load of 35 kg. The Renault engine consumes 0,1 kg of fuel per lap more than the Toyota engine. So Alonso didn't have a chance against Trulli or Webber: ''It wasn't bad luck or anything, we were (simply) not fast enough. The many clouds (the Magny-Cours asphalt reacts extremely to temperature differences - AFCA) are likely not to have helped us either.''

One of the problems Renault still has is the roll of the bodywork when the driver brakes and steers in at the same time because then there's a sudden lack of aerodynamical downforce. This wasn't such a big problem at Magny-Cours though, because Renault had a new frontwing and the tarmac at the circuit is incredibly smooth.

The team had new engine mappings for better drivability. Extra bhp's (7 (?)) are to be introduced in Silverstone.

- Sam Michael was absent from the French GP, he was working on the 2009 car in Grove. Head came to replace him. On Friday Rosberg only tested with a lot of fuel, after all, having a 10P penalty he would start the race with a lot of fuel. But they simply forgot to also test with little fuel for qualifying. So Rosberg didn't make it to Q3 and his set-up and strategy were useless starting at the back of the grid. The driver: ''On the one hand the team expects me to drive flawlessly on the two most difficult tracks. But when we continue like we wouldn't deserve it.''

- Vettel: ''We've got the maximum out of our package and we were more competitive than we were in previous races.'' The 20-year old was happy he could keep Heidfeld behind till the chequered flag ''because he is normally not in our peformance area. I believe I saw him go into the pitlane together with me twice.''

''The pressure from him wasn't big, I didn't have problems keeping him behind me.''

Berger is happy: ''Vettel couldn't have done much more because no driver DNFed in front of him and the rain we'd hoped for didn't fall.''

The 50% teamowner knows that not much more can be done than bringing the cars home: ''And that's what we've done. We've put Vettel on a short middle stint in order to keep Heidfeld behind. But there's not a lot of room to play in a race like that.''

Tost on qualifying: ''Both cars should pass Q1 but to make it into Q3 is perhaps a little bit too early.''

The progress made by STR is due to new parts from Red Bull Technology (new floor and barge boards), the team is now where RBR was during the Spanish GP.

Vettel: ''There are more parts to come at Silverstone this week.'' Each STR driver will test one and a half day.

Bourdais was only able to keep behind the Force India drivers at the end of the race. Tost: ''It is food for thought when he's slower than his teammate. I would be worried if he's not concerned about it.''

#563 Francesc

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 11:38

Thanks for this insight comments AFCA, a bit noob from Williams to don't test with low fuel on Friday... :

#564 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 11:39

Thanks for that AFCA. I found the following the most interesting.

"Sam Michael was absent from the French GP, he was working on the 2009 car in Grove. Head came to replace him. On Friday Rosberg only tested with a lot of fuel, after all, having a 10P penalty he would start the race with a lot of fuel. But they simply forgot to also test with little fuel for qualifying. So Rosberg didn't make it to Q3 and his set-up and strategy were useless starting at the back of the grid. The driver: ''On the one hand the team expects me to drive flawlessly on the two most difficult tracks. But when we continue like we wouldn't deserve it.''

Suprising. I´ve never rated Michael´s in his present role, but I thought Head was smarter than that.
For Nico to openly criticize the team shows he is getting a bit cheesed off. I don´t expect to see him at Williams next season.

#565 Mat

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:10

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
[B]
There was contact, but it was OK. Nothing to get worked up about.
Kovalainen used the wrong tactic IMO. He should have been trying to get as close to Trulli´s rear as possible under braking for the hairpin....[B]


There was no contact. One of the drivers even said as much.

#566 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:20

Originally posted by Mat



There was no contact. One of the drivers even said as much.

Who said that? Can you give us a link?.
Of course I stand corrected if I´m wrong. It could have been that they veered towards each other and then, when contact seemed imminent, steered away again similtaniously, giving the impression of contact. I´ll have to get the old peepers checked if I was wrong. :lol:

#567 AFCA

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:39

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Suprising. I´ve never rated Michael´s in his present role, but I thought Head was smarter than that.
For Nico to openly criticize the team shows he is getting a bit cheesed off. I don´t expect to see him at Williams next season.


Apart from his role as Technical Director he apperantly is also very good at 'reading' a GP weekend and planning things. For the age and relatively little experience he has at such an important position, I really think he's doing a good job.

I think Rosberg will say btw. they will get things sorted. Nakajima is also likely to stay, unless he's been called back by Toyota...

#568 Mat

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:41

From the post-race press conf....

Q. And that wheel banging incident with Heikki?

JT: I don't think we touched at all. It was wheel-to-wheel like in go-kart, so it was a dream come true as obviously it is many years since I did such a nice fight. I would love to fight every race to fight like that. We know the problem with our car and we need to get more pace and that is what I am asking of the team. But we are doing a great job compared to last year and the car is much more competitive, everybody is much more together and everybody is more motivated. Things are moving on.

#569 Schumeister

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 18:14

Looking through Martin Whitmash's post race comments he claims Hamilton's pace after the drive through penalty was fastest of anyone:

After his penalty, he came out behind Nakajima and, once he was past, became the fastest guy in the race. It was a strong and powerful stint.



looking at the race graph it show's a different story:

http://f1.autosport....0&submit=Submit

Is this a case of Mclaren having different data avaliable than autosport or wishfull thinking on Mclarens part?

#570 bond

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 00:15

Originally posted by Mat
From the post-race press conf....

Q. And that wheel banging incident with Heikki?

JT: I don't think we touched at all. It was wheel-to-wheel like in go-kart, so it was a dream come true as obviously it is many years since I did such a nice fight. I would love to fight every race to fight like that. We know the problem with our car and we need to get more pace and that is what I am asking of the team. But we are doing a great job compared to last year and the car is much more competitive, everybody is much more together and everybody is more motivated. Things are moving on.


Well looking at this video i say they've touched.
Just look how the cars reacts right after the touch. Also look at heiki's steering wheel....

Move starts around 2:07


#571 Melbourne Park

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:13

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

Sorry MP, I missed that.
IMO, if he had collided with Vettel in that instance, no, They would have blamed Lewis for dangerous driving, or driving without due regard or something along those lines. And again, IMO, they would have been justified. He wasn´t past Vettel where he should have been turning in if he had intended taking the turn in the first place. (besides the fact he was travelling to quickly to take the turn with the amount of road he had available). Had he turned when he should have, he would most definitely have collected a front wheel in the side of his cockpit.
But Lewis knows all this, as it wasn´t his first car race, and to come out with all the BS about being past etc etc, makes me sad. The guy shows so little real character. His actions on track are mirrored by his words off track I´m afraid. In a word, dishonest.


So how come the Stewards called Alonso's crash into Nic Heidfeld at Monaco as a racing incident? Alonso said before the Monaco race:

"It is very difficult to overtake, but I think it is quite an open race and as we are not fighting for the championship we can approach this race aggressively and take a few risks.


Webber when asked what happened with the Alonso / Heidfeld accident (Nic's tyre was punctured and the left side of his car damaged)

MW: "I stopped and had a cup of tea! I didn't stall, but I did touch Fernando a little bit. He was desperate because he was on full wets, the wrong tyres, and he had to get down the road."

Alsonso described after the race what happened too:

Then we started to lose too much time. It was desperation. I tried to overtake Heidfeld in a place where you can't overtake. In Monaco you usually can't pass anywhere and neither there.

"So it was my fault. From there we needed a miracle," added the Spaniard, who went on to finish in 10th position.


It was also clearly shown on television.

But Alonso's incident was defined as a racing one.

#572 Mat

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 02:51

Originally posted by bond


Well looking at this video i say they've touched.
Just look how the cars reacts right after the touch. Also look at heiki's steering wheel....

Move starts around 2:07


I dont think those wheels touch mate.

Notice Heikki's wheel starts 'juttering' when he drops his left front onto the grass.

#573 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 08:13

Originally posted by Melbourne Park


So how come the Stewards called Alonso's crash into Nic Heidfeld at Monaco as a racing incident?

Who knows mate? You´ll have to take that up with them.
Just to change the subject slightly. A few posts back I suggested (God, I´m a pompous old fart :lol: ) a move that, IMO, Heikki should have tried when attemting to pass Trulli. If you go to 0.57 on the vidio that´s been put up on here, you will see the exact move I was suggesting, executed successfully by NP jnr on Nakajima. Also, elsewhere on the vid it shows the wheel banging incident we were discussing. (Matt, I still think they touched) You can see in that clip how much more drive Heikki had out of the hairpin. He was just on the wrong side approaching the chicane. I know these are modern F1 cars, but that´s no excuse to stop attempting to overtake by using a bit of racecraft, I think you will agree. :wave:

#574 Man of the race

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 08:27

"Trulli-train" is well-known, but "Nakajima-train" is nonexistent. I wonder why...

#575 Mat

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 08:35

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Also, elsewhere on the vid it shows the wheel banging incident we were discussing. (Matt, I still think they touched) You can see in that clip how much more drive Heikki had out of the hairpin. He was just on the wrong side approaching the chicane. I know these are modern F1 cars, but that´s no excuse to stop attempting to overtake by using a bit of racecraft, I think you will agree. :wave:


1. Trulli said they didnt touch.
2. Watch the onboard footage of Heikki - it clearly shows him put his left front wheel on the grass. This is what creates the movement in his steering wheel. and he backs out of it.

#576 Man of the race

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 08:46

What Trulli said was that they "didn't touch, only the wheels touched." Right? Whatever it means. I see it meaning racing. :smoking:

#577 pRy

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 11:24

"“We weren't aware that the incident was questionable until a number of laps later when it was displayed on our monitors that Car 22 was under investigation," he said."

Whitmarsh on the Hamilton pass on Sunday. Sounds like McLaren needs to hire someone to watch ITV and ring them when they may face an investigation. ITV called the pass dodgy seconds after it took place.

#578 kar

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 11:30

Originally posted by pRy
"“We weren't aware that the incident was questionable until a number of laps later when it was displayed on our monitors that Car 22 was under investigation," he said."

Whitmarsh on the Hamilton pass on Sunday. Sounds like McLaren needs to hire someone to watch ITV and ring them when they may face an investigation. ITV called the pass dodgy seconds after it took place.


They do. ITV made a big deal about how McLaren's prat perch have a live 'red phone' link to Woking where a bunch of engineers sit in front of the world feed/misc media feeds and provide input back.

Clearly the screwed the pooch this past weekend.

#579 Mika Mika

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 12:10

Originally posted by kar


They do. ITV made a big deal about how McLaren's prat perch have a live 'red phone' link to Woking where a bunch of engineers sit in front of the world feed/misc media feeds and provide input back.

Clearly the screwed the pooch this past weekend.


Maybe they are board of James Allen too!!!!

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#580 Mat

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 15:16

Whitmarsh has proved again and again that he is full of shit.

#581 Melbourne Park

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 06:09

Originally posted by Mat


1. Trulli said they didnt touch.
2. Watch the onboard footage of Heikki - it clearly shows him put his left front wheel on the grass. This is what creates the movement in his steering wheel. and he backs out of it.


Trulli spoke about it later as well, and he was not so definite:


"Everyone is telling me that we banged wheels, but I don't think so. I don't know, but even if we slightly touched, it's just our job. I mean it was wheel to wheel, and nothing happened honestly. I kept my inside line, he went on the outside, I think it was quite OK. To be honest I didn't feel a bang.


I don't know what Trulli thought - but then, don't Mercedes have zero offset? ;)

#582 Italiano Tifoso

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 06:13

Originally posted by Man of the race
What Trulli said was that they "didn't touch, only the wheels touched." Right? Whatever it means. I see it meaning racing. :smoking:

:up:

Rubbing is racing. There was nothing wrong with Trulli's defence, i think it was a perfectly executed move to keep Heikki at bay. :up:

#583 Mat

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 06:46

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Trulli spoke about it later as well, and he was not so definite:

I don't know what Trulli thought - but then, don't Mercedes have zero offset? ;)


yeah, i read trulli's interview this morning. good stuff.


It seems to me, watching the onboard footage from Heikki that they did not touch and the reason you see Heikki's steering wheel 'shake' is because his left front wheel is on the grass!

Do you not see the same thing?

If wheels touched at that speed you would definately see more than a shake of a steering wheel. Not only that, but Trulli would definately have felt something through the steering wheel.

#584 Melbourne Park

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 07:39

Originally posted by Mat


yeah, i read trulli's interview this morning. good stuff.


It seems to me, watching the onboard footage from Heikki that they did not touch and the reason you see Heikki's steering wheel 'shake' is because his left front wheel is on the grass!

Do you not see the same thing?

If wheels touched at that speed you would definately see more than a shake of a steering wheel. Not only that, but Trulli would definately have felt something through the steering wheel.


I watched the race just the once without stopping anything. I saw a reply of that attempted pass, and I thought that it was a kiss at the time, but the wheels I thought were not in alignment, I thought Kova's wheel was just behind. But I saw it just once, so I maybe be wrong.

You've looked at it more I think so I'd trust your view more than my memory although normally I remember pictorial things well.

As to the feeling, the reason I said zero offset is because in a road car, if something hits your wheel in a zero offset wheel you will not feel the hit. That is why mercedes cars are a little dead in the straight ahead feel, because of the zero offset. Mercedes have used zero ofset in the cars for years, I think they still do, my wife's one has it too, because I hit some deepish water at speed and there was not tugg on the steering wheel at all, and I realised that Mercedes were still using it at least on here two year old car. If you hit deep water, or a bump etc, there is no tugging of the wheel and the car should still goes towards the direction of the wheel with zero offset.

But of course McLaren's car is a bit different to that! I was attempting one of my obtuse and feeble jokes.

#585 Melbourne Park

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 07:45

Originally posted by Italiano Tifoso
:up:

Rubbing is racing. There was nothing wrong with Trulli's defence, i think it was a perfectly executed move to keep Heikki at bay. :up:


Yes, I loved Trulli's drive too, it was great IMO. And Kova gave it everything IMO too.

#586 president evil

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 17:02

I see Magny Cours is back on AGAIN next year. So much for it being the last year, just like 2007 when they said 2007 would BE the last year! I dont trust anything BE says anymore! (Dont know why it took me so long to discover that!!)

#587 AFCA

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:28

Originally posted by AFCA
I think the FIA is evaluating the Safety Car system, tested after FP2, now. There will be a meeting tonight with all the team principles and it will be decided whether or not to introduce the system this GP already...

Originally posted by AFCA


I don't (yet) know what the outcome of the meeting is but it may be unlikely that the teams come to an agreement soon. If the system is introduced then it means that a driver is allowed to come into the pitlane to refuel at any time. Smaller teams like Force India used to benefit from penalties that were awarded to drivers ahead of them. So They might not be too happy with what's going on now. Nielsen: ''Therefore it could be that at the end of the season we still haven't found a new regulation.''


The reason why the system wasn't introduced at Magny-Cours (had there been a Safety Car situation) is a technical one. When the system was first tested at Barcelona the signal that was sent to the drivers couldn't be received on each part of the track. The teams were afraid something similar would happen during the French GP so the introduction of the system has been postponed.

#588 AFCA

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 14:20

The Safety Car regulations - discussion doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. First the teams must agree before something's going to get changed. A teammanager: ''We don't yet know what we're actually voting for, that's how many opinions there are.''

The FIA would like to go back to the old system, provided that drivers that drive dangerously are punished severely. Untill the last race of 2006 refuelling was allowed at any stage. That lead to drivers willing to get back to the pits as quick as possible during a Safety Car situation. Whiting proposes to ban a driver from the next race in case he drives past the scene of the accident without lowering his speed. In that case the teams fear to be at the mercy of the arbitrariness of the stewards.

The electrical system will in any case be tested again during (or at the end of) the free practice sessions on Friday. Coulthard is sceptical: he sustains that he cannot keep watching the display on his steering wheel to keep an eye on the time that remains to get to the pitlane entrance. It could be distracting and possibly dangerous.

#589 Clatter

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 15:04

Originally posted by AFCA
The Safety Car regulations - discussion doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. First the teams must agree before something's going to get changed. A teammanager: ''We don't yet know what we're actually voting for, that's how many opinions there are.''

The FIA would like to go back to the old system, provided that drivers that drive dangerously are punished severely. Untill the last race of 2006 refuelling was allowed at any stage. That lead to drivers willing to get back to the pits as quick as possible during a Safety Car situation. Whiting proposes to ban a driver from the next race in case he drives past the scene of the accident without lowering his speed. In that case the teams fear to be at the mercy of the arbitrariness of the stewards.

The electrical system will in any case be tested again during (or at the end of) the free practice sessions on Friday. Coulthard is sceptical: he sustains that he cannot keep watching the display on his steering wheel to keep an eye on the time that remains to get to the pitlane entrance. It could be distracting and possibly dangerous.


The slower speed needs to be applied to the whole circuit not just the accident zone. Is it really that hard to impose a speed limit for when the SC is deployed and the drivers then have to be within that speed limit before they have passed 2 or 3 marshall points.

#590 mursuka80

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 15:08

Originally posted by Clatter


The slower speed needs to be applied to the whole circuit not just the accident zone. Is it really that hard to impose a speed limit for when the SC is deployed and the drivers then have to be within that speed limit before they have passed 2 or 3 marshall points.


Haven`t you heard that drivers are retards who need coaches to drive a F1 car ;)