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The Form of Lewis Hamilton


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#1 potmotr

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:01

Lewis Hamilton is having a rollercoaster season. He started well with a win in Australia, then suffered a drop of form around Bahrain, bounced back with victory in Monaco. Lately we've seen a mistake in Canada and a difficult weekend in France. I personally think he will come back stronger than ever in Silverstone and the races ahead.
Civil discussion invited...

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#2 Mika Mika

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:02

Originally posted by potmotr
Civil discussion invited...


If only!!! :rolleyes:

#3 Anomnader

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:03

I think the media, the FIA, himself are putting him under to much pressure.

#4 yr

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:03

It seems that ´damage limitation´ isn´t his forte. He does well when he has fastest car and is running in front without any mechanical problems, but when going gets tough...

#5 Mrv

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:06

The huge problem is James Allan. The pressure Lewis has from his favorite fan boy is too much for Lewis to handle. :p

#6 gerry nassar

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:07

This is a good subsitute for the closed thread.

Lewis needs to take a step back and re-evaluate his current performance. No doubt he's one of the sports most talented drivers and he has shown that on more than a few occasions. He's an agressive driver by nature but has to learn to hold back a little.

He's is no longer in GP2. He's driving along some of the best drivers in motorsport and when he's under pressure he should be controlling his hunger and eagerness and waiting for better opportunities.

At Silverstone he'll most likely be on the front row. With all the pressure of his home grand prix - lets see what he can do there.

#7 potmotr

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:11

Originally posted by gerry nassar
This is a good subsitute for the closed thread.

Lewis needs to take a step back and re-evaluate his current performance. No doubt he's one of the sports most talented drivers and he has shown that on more than a few occasions. He's an agressive driver by nature but has to learn to hold back a little.

He's is no longer in GP2. He's driving along some of the best drivers in motorsport and when he's under pressure he should be controlling his hunger and eagerness and waiting for better opportunities.

At Silverstone he'll most likely be on the front row. With all the pressure of his home grand prix - lets see what he can do there.


:up: Sound reasoning. Hamilton is having his issues, but that's sport. Form goes up, form goes down.

#8 noikeee

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:11

It has been a weird season by Lewis indeed, considering how solid he looked last year. He's fairly lucky that his opponents are still within reach, and that Kovalainen has had right about everything happening to him except for a meteor falling on the car.

The pace is still there though, and this season will teach him that things won't always go his way. It will make him stronger in the future.

#9 jesee

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:11

Originally posted by gerry nassar
This is a good subsitute for the closed thread.

Lewis needs to take a step back and re-evaluate his current performance. No doubt he's one of the sports most talented drivers and he has shown that on more than a few occasions. He's an agressive driver by nature but has to learn to hold back a little.

He's is no longer in GP2. He's driving along some of the best drivers in motorsport and when he's under pressure he should be controlling his hunger and eagerness and waiting for better opportunities.

At Silverstone he'll most likely be on the front row. With all the pressure of his home grand prix - lets see what he can do there.


I could'nt have said it better. I think sometimes he has to learn that winning at all cost should not be the objective. He pushes too hard, making him liable to mistakes and ends up at worse position. Look at bahrain, stupid mistake, canada, he panics once he sees kimi and robert ahead and today, although i believe the penalty was harsh cause he had already passed vettel before cutting the chicane. This contest favours consisitency, if you can't win, aim for points...that is what i would say to him.

#10 DoubleWDC

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:14

Originally posted by paranoik0

It will make him stronger in the future.


This is what Hamilton has been saying all the time but so far I'm not convinced. I said in some other thread that Hamilton is soon the strongest man in the world..

#11 jesee

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:19

I also think that sometimes we forget that lewis is only in his 2nd year in formula one. Look at all the other guys he is competing with. You can't beat experience...it comes only through hard learning and i think he is learning that. I must say also he needs to talk less especially to british press because his every word is analysed and taken apart. Let the driving do the talking. I understand the need for himself to talk himself up, but that sometimes doesn't do anything positive for you when you fail....the nay-sayers and the doom-mongers await to pounce like hyenas on carrion.

#12 jesee

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:22

Originally posted by DoubleWDC


This is what Hamilton has been saying all the time but so far I'm not convinced. I said in some other thread that Hamilton is soon the strongest man in the world..



Can't you see this is a positive thread? Why can't you say something constructive or hold your breath for heavens sake? This is not a bash-thread.

#13 noikeee

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:23

Originally posted by DoubleWDC


This is what Hamilton has been saying all the time but so far I'm not convinced.


These things take time.

#14 DoubleWDC

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:24

Originally posted by jesee

Can't you see this is a positive thread? Why can't you say something constructive or hold your breath for heavens sake? This is not a bash-thread.


Ok. Hamilton is the best ever. Happy now?

#15 giacomo

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:29

No surprise here.

One or two troubled seasons might be even good for him in the long sight. Hamilton still has to mature as a driver and as a person as well.

If he's smart enough to accept and learn his lessons he will be unbeatable at the age of 25.

#16 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:31

Lewis is Lewis, and he will do what Lewis does. An iceman he´s not. The moment he´s under pressure he cracks, and if he´s ever to lift a WDC he has to erradicate the pressure mistakes. Can´t see it happening personally.
Mac will eventually get the message and look for a cooler head to lead their assault on the championship. He´s very fast, but he´s not the complete package IMO.
And that mouth of his :rolleyes: . Dear me, it´s his biggest curse.

#17 jesee

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:38

Originally posted by DoubleWDC


Ok. Hamilton is the best ever. Happy now?


Very mature reply. Thanks.

#18 pingu666

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:48

the spark or the magic wasnt really there for most of the race :/
drive through ruined his race

#19 Red Rocket

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:53

Hamilton drove with "brainless aggression" today it was one of the worse drives I have seen. His comments about himself seem to gone up but his golden boy shine seems to be tarnishing.

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#20 stormshadow

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:55

His form? in one civilised word : sucks. :smoking:

#21 mursuka80

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 15:57

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Lewis is Lewis, and he will do what Lewis does. An iceman he´s not. The moment he´s under pressure he cracks, and if he´s ever to lift a WDC he has to erradicate the pressure mistakes. Can´t see it happening personally.
Mac will eventually get the message and look for a cooler head to lead their assault on the championship. He´s very fast, but he´s not the complete package IMO.
And that mouth of his :rolleyes: . Dear me, it´s his biggest curse.


Its like he has to win the WDC as fast as possible,and that in my opinion is not the way to go :down: Look at kimi he kept his head down and the reward will come :up:

#22 sensible

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:04

You could tell from the start he was either going to do something stupid or have a blinder. It was the former. Hitting your teammate and getting a stupid penalty are not the way to be wdc. It seems that he lets the pressure get to him much more than you'd expect. He needs to be able to stay calm if he wants to make the next step

#23 Deeq

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:08

Actually I think without his off-track bravado i.e. trash/tough talk we will be saying what a balls to the walls driver he is.... but he ruins for himself and us by his relatively constant promises/talk* before the races. Sometimes he makes JPM seem - in retrospect - like a Buddhist monk :stoned:
The championship is not lost though and he has everything to gain from being little prudent in the races and he is better and more entertaining than JPM.



*) Perhaps he also walk the walk..talk about pressure cooker

#24 BMW_F1

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:12

Originally posted by Deeq

The championship is not lost though and he has everything to gain from being little prudent in the races and he is better and more entertaining than JPM.


I am not so sure about that.. overtaking wise I've yet to see someone as entertaining as Montoya.

#25 Only Massa

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:16

I think he is talented. But I fear his team is not "educating" him and letting him grow from his errors and his sometimes arrogant behaviour on track.

Yes, Ron Dennis and Mclaren's management soft spot for Hamilton are damaging him, in my opinion. He never gets slapped on the head by his team for his errors.
And even when he behaves like the greatest asshole in the circuit (Canada), his team does everything to justify him, behind logic and common sense.

So he lacks humility, he lacks an 'adult" counterpart (no pun intended :-) ) and he is not maturing as a driver. The impression is that he's going backwards. His F1 experience has not given him more skills but only more arrogance and overconfidence, which often transform into errors, usually stupid and avoidable ones.

For example today he managed to ram into te back of his team-mate, pass a clearly slower car cutting a chicane and not givin his position back (but what did his team do, in those moments? did they tell him to respect the rules?) and finally he behaved like an asshole in the pits refusing comments and running away from journalists and commentators (as shown on Italian tv: he was very arrogant, and it's the first time he does that, since he's been usually very media-friendly).

The solution to Hamilton's problems is clear and simple: he has to change his team and get to drive for a team which treats him as a driver and not as a prince.

#26 pingu666

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:16

Originally posted by BMW_F1


I am not so sure about that.. overtaking wise I've yet to see someone as entertaining as Montoya.


imagine montoya vs glock :clap:

i dont think he drove with brainless aggression, just below average : and he only tapped heikki very lightly

#27 Imperial

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:16

I don't think he can aim for glory for at least the next three or four races,unless he's leading from the start.

He's far enough behind in the points now that he can't afford to have any more non-points finishes. It's not worth the risk of him going for wins if it could jeopardise the chance of taking any points at all.

#28 BMW_F1

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:18

Originally posted by Only Massa
I think he is talented. But I fear his team is not "educating" him and letting him grow from his errors and his sometimes arrogant behaviour on track.

Yes, Ron Dennis and Mclaren's management soft spot for Hamilton are damaging him, in my opinion. He never gets slapped on the head by his team for his errors.
And even when he behaves like the greatest asshole in the circuit (Canada), his team does everything to justify him, behind logic and common sense.

So he lacks humility, he lacks an 'adult" counterpart (no pun intended :-) ) and he is not maturing as a driver. The impression is that he's going backwards. His F1 experience has not given him more skills but only more arrogance and overconfidence, which often transform into errors, usually stupid and avoidable ones.

For example today he managed to ram into te back of his team-mate, pass a clearly slower car cutting a chicane and not givin his position back (but what did his team do, in those moments? did they tell him to respect the rules?) and finally he behaved like an asshole in the pits refusing comments and running away from journalists and commentators (as shown on Italian tv: he was very arrogant, and it's the first time he does that, since he's been usually very media-friendly).

The solution to Hamilton's problems is clear and simple: he has to change his team and get to drive for a team which treats him as a driver and not as a prince.


could not agree more..
:up:

#29 tormave

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:18

I wouldn't expect a brilliant comeback at Silverstone. All evidence suggests Ferrari will be in a class of their own there just like in France. Last year Hamilton got the pole (just) but was miles lighter than anyone else.

It seems to me (from admittedly a great distance) that Hamilton is driving for the WDC too much this year rather than just concentrating in making the most of the race he is in. Ferrari is the better car this year and trying to match their pace Lewis appears to be overreaching at times.

As an example, I didn't understand Lewis qualifying light yesterday at all - he would have been much better served with similar conservative strategy they put Heikki on. By going longer he had a chance to pass cars that pitted earlier - with a 3-stop even if you pass the cars you are again behind them once you come out of the pits. The only way he could've made his strategy work at all today was passing everyone but the Ferraris and pulling a decent gap before his 1st stop. Pretty far fetched on a track that saw a grand total of 6 passes last year.

#30 Coral

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:18

Originally posted by mursuka80

Its like he has to win the WDC as fast as possible,and that in my opinion is not the way to go Look at kimi he kept his head down and the reward will come


Yes but did Kimi ever really care about winning the WDC? Well maybe but he has always given me the impression that he does not really care either way about the WDC. I'm sure he's glad that he won it but my guess it that he could take it or leave it. But Lewis is different...he wants it, he really, really wants it! That's what I like so much about him. He is so passionate about the sport, just as Senna was. Lewis doesn't want to be WDC in 3 or 4 years, he wants it now! Don't forget he is young, and young people generally are not patient...they want instant gratification. Lewis will win the WDC one day, I am sure...he is just trying a little too hard at the moment.

#31 BMW_F1

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:20

I didn't understand his strategy either..

#32 potmotr

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:22

I think it should be remembered that of the top four drivers only Robert Kubica has had an error free season.
Raikkonen, Massa and Hamilton have all made race-ending mistakes or had off-form weekends.

I think one man's 'mistake under pressure' are another's 'taking bold risks'. I think Hamilton's risks often pay off which is what makes him such an exciting driver.

Ayrton Senna, often cited as the best driver of all time, still made significant errors/risks until the end of his career.

#33 Lada Lover

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:22

The media builds you up and then they bring you down at first chance. He made a couple of little mistakes today that were almost big. The British press wrote about him this week. It didn't make the Canadian papers.



#34 BMW_F1

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:24

Originally posted by Coral


Yes but did Kimi ever really care about winning the WDC? Well maybe but he has always given me the impression that he does not really care either way about the WDC. I'm sure he's glad that he won it but my guess it that he could take it or leave it. But Lewis is different...he wants it, he really, really wants it! That's what I like so much about him. He is so passionate about the sport, just as Senna was. Lewis doesn't want to be WDC in 3 or 4 years, he wants it now! Don't forget he is young, and young people generally are not patient...they want instant gratification. Lewis will win the WDC one day, I am sure...he is just trying a little too hard at the moment.


did you just started watching F1 like last year..? Do you think JPM 03, Alonso 05/06/07, MS 01/02/03/04/06 , Kimi in 05/07 didn't really want to become WDC.. Come on man, I know ITV only focuses on Lewis but hello, open your eyes.. Lewis is as passionate as many many other drivers .

#35 mursuka80

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:24

Originally posted by Coral


Yes but did Kimi ever really care about winning the WDC? Well maybe but he has always given me the impression that he does not really care either way about the WDC. I'm sure he's glad that he won it but my guess it that he could take it or leave it. But Lewis is different...he wants it, he really, really wants it! That's what I like so much about him. He is so passionate about the sport, just as Senna was. Lewis doesn't want to be WDC in 3 or 4 years, he wants it now! Don't forget he is young, and young people generally are not patient...they want instant gratification. Lewis will win the WDC one day, I am sure...he is just trying a little too hard at the moment.


Kimi has said that nothing matters more to him than being WDC :up: So i dont know where you get that impression that kimi doesnt care :rolleyes:

#36 mursuka80

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:26

Originally posted by potmotr
I think it should be remembered that of the top four drivers only Robert Kubica has had an error free season.
Raikkonen, Massa and Hamilton have all made race-ending mistakes or had off-form weekends.

I think one man's 'mistake under pressure' are another's 'taking bold risks'. I think Hamilton's risks often pay off which is what makes him such an exciting driver.

Ayrton Senna, often cited as the best driver of all time, still made significant errors/risks until the end of his career.


Please,dont compare Hamilton to Senna its insulting to the man`s legacy :wave:

#37 Paco

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:35

Not having Fernando on board is probably hurting him as well. Additional pressure being the teams #1. He's not as relaxed any more with that BS within the team directed at Fernando.

Fernando was providing a lot of help in development early on and in setups at the GPs. Now he only has Kovalainen to help bring the team up and it's not happening.

McLaren has lost Kimi and Fernando, 2 worthy champions. Now we are seeing what the Lewis is made of... curious to see how the story unfolds and what the final chapter will be at the end of year.

For me, it's not unlike Honda/BAR/JV...

I think F1 community give engineers and aero guys too much credit, at the end of the day, you still need driver feedback and the ability to drive the crap out of car. #'s only mean soo much. Just cause a computer say it's should be faster after a new add-on, doesn't mean it wil work. Just cause a computer says "x" should be slower, and driver makes it faster doesn't mean its wrong.

But that's my opinion only. no need for a flame war.

I think McLaren have gone the route of depending too much on computers and sims and lost that "driver feeling input" that makes men champs in F1. I personally think Damon, Jacques, Micheal, Fernando and Kimi all have it in today modern F1... no need to flame Jacques... it's well documented his headbutts with Patrick and co. over setup and same thing at Honda/BAR.. c'est la vie on that subject.

Paco

#38 potmotr

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:35

Originally posted by mursuka80


Please,dont compare Hamilton to Senna its insulting to the man`s legacy :wave:


I don't want to turn this into Hamilton-Thinks-He's-Senna, but there are a lot of similarities.
Dominance in lower formulae, skill at Monaco, driving for McLaren etc etc.
My point was that even the driver heralded as the greatest ever made mistakes.

#39 Schumeister

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:36

Originally posted by mursuka80


Please,dont compare Hamilton to Senna its insulting to the man`s legacy :wave:


:up: :up: :up:

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#40 BMW_F1

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:36

The truth is that both Mclaren driver's have made silly mistakes and that is why they are where they are now..
If they were to have Alonso and Webber driving for them now, I think they would probably be on par with Ferrari...

#41 mursuka80

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:37

Originally posted by potmotr


I don't want to turn this into Hamilton-Thinks-He's-Senna, but there are a lot of similarities.
Dominance in lower formulae, skill at Monaco, driving for McLaren etc etc.
My point was that even the driver heralded as the greatest ever made mistakes.


You could say the same about Mika Häkkinen ;)

#42 eoin

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:40

He is young and inexperienced. He has the speed and drive to be the best, but he needs to tame it.

#43 ensign14

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:41

Originally posted by Only Massa

Yes, Ron Dennis and Mclaren's management soft spot for Hamilton are damaging him, in my opinion. He never gets slapped on the head by his team for his errors.

They are never going to criticize him in public. They didn't even slag off Montoya when he went "tennis"-playing. What they say in private may well be different.

#44 Devero

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:49

This race did not get a better Lewis.

The guy is visibly boiling in hot water.

Q & A with Lewis Hamilton

By Edd Straw Sunday, June 22nd 2008, 16:35 GMT


Q. Do you feel the penalty was justified?

Lewis Hamilton: Racing is racing, I had a good race still.


LH: No, I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result.

Q. After the race you seemed quite angry towards the media? You didn't want to talk to us. Tell us how you are feeling.
LH: I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it.

#45 potmotr

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:49

Originally posted by mursuka80


You could say the same about Mika Häkkinen ;)


Totally. Mika made mistakes, remember Imola 1999?

#46 Imperial

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:50

Originally posted by Paco
I think McLaren have gone the route of depending too much on computers and sims and lost that "driver feeling input" that makes men champs in F1.


I agree in many respects.

I do think they'd be crazy in this day and age not to use many of the tools and calculations at their disposal, but I felt very cynical during the week to read Martin Whitmarsh talking about how they'd run race simulations to consider Lewis's potential starting positions and where that could end up leaving him at the end of the race. Given the many variables that can happen, such as what happened between Lewis and Vettel, it leaves you wondering what is the point of the simulations.

I also now have the thought in mind that there must be at least a small team at Mclaren (and to be honest at most of the teams) whose job it is to sit running simulations on computer from 9am to 5pm every day of the week. If I had a time machine I'd absolutely love to go back to the days of Clark and watch a race without any of the associated bullshit that the sport is sinking in these days.

#47 mursuka80

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:51

Originally posted by potmotr


Totally. Mika made mistakes, remember Imola 1999?


How can i forget :( I thought his WDC hopes were over :down: Its funny none of the finnish drivers have ever won in italy :(

#48 Deeq

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:57

Lewis was clearly upset but gave relatively measured response(s) to an obnoxiously biased and brainless questions :up:
The disgraceful Journo baiting the pilot to get in trouble with the governing body by quesioning its integrity in public :down: :down: :down:

I really hope they pull in his press pass

#49 mursuka80

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 17:01

Q. It seems that if you are driving a silver car you're going to get a penalty, there's almost an inevitability to it. Does it feel like that to you?

LH: I'm not going to answer that one.

What a stupid journalist :down: Lewis should have answered No

#50 potmotr

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 17:02

Originally posted by Deeq
The disgraceful Journo baiting the pilot to get in trouble with the governing body by quesioning its integrity in public :down: :down: :down:


That's journalism though. The drivers go to a Grand Prix to win the race, the journalists go to a Grand Prix to bag a good story. Asking Hamilton if he thought the decision was fair is totally legitimate. The fact Lewis said no comment (twice) tends to suggest he is unhappy with the decision.
Don't shoot the messengers...