43 replies to this topic

[ViMaMo]

Strangely I just dont feel the enthusiasm these days. Gone are the days when i felt nervous, heart thumping watching Michael alongside Mika on the grid. Even Montoya days were ok.

Where do we get to see a superb pitstop strategy winning race, jeez not a super quick stop but the whole "michael you have 15 laps to get 20 sec"... "ok" thing.

Massa and Kimi seem to drive around, trading wins but no close racing for the win.

Or am I getting old?

Anyone enjoying this like Mika-Mike days? How many smart wins have we seen?

[silver fan]

Your getting old, but please don't take that the wrong way, if anything I'd prefer it if you look upon it as a compliment. I fell in love with F1 at the 1985 Australian GP, my first experience of seeing F1 up close and personal. Since then F1 has really been the only sport that I've ever followed with any real conviction. It goes without saying there have been periods where my interest has waned, but in the end you always come back to it. Despite all its faults it still gives me a buzz that watching a bunch of footballers run about chasing a ball singularly fails to do.

The Schumacher v Hakkinen battles of 1998-2000 came about at a unique time. The previous generation of top tier drivers, namely Senna, Prost, Mansell and Piquet were now fading memories, life goes on. Enough time had passed since that terrible weekend at Imola in 1994 that fans were no longer hanging on to the past but were rather looking forward to a new era along with a new millennium. As such we were better able to appreciate the talents of Schumacher and Hakkinen without the baggage of the past. The fact that there was a mutual respect between the two didn't hurt either. Another point worth noting is these two drivers were locking horns at a time that can be seen as the cusp of the Internet revolution. As such there was nothing like the sort of fanboy mania that surrounds the latest generation of drivers. In days of old if you wanted to argue with somebody about the driver that they support it was more often as not done down the Pub over a pint. So if you wanted to bait somebody you had to do it to their face. These days fanboys/trolls hide behind a computer secure in the knowledge that the worst thing that can happen is they get banned. While the Internet has brought the world closer and given as unparalleled access to the inner working of F1, it has also bred a standard of social etiquette that leaves a lot to be desired. Now who's sounding like an old fart!

As far as the current generation of drivers is concerned I've seen enough from the likes of Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton, Kubica and Massa to be confident in saying that F1 is in safe hands, at least from the drivers point of view. The sporting and technical regulations are another matter.

[hello86]

It is always the same.
At the time when Mika and Schummelschumi drove, everybody thought: "wow the beginning of the 90´s was pretty great and exciting.

In a few years when you think back of 2007 and 2008, you will think "wow that were great times".

And I don´t think that the boring races are because of the drivers.
It is just this stupid regulations and the cars which doesn´t make it easy to overtake.

[Gecko]

I think it's to do with emotional involvement. Sometimes there are characters in the sport that draw you in, and this season it just might be that none of them do it for you, and I can't help but feel it a bit myself. Like or dislike Alonso, the fact remains that without the antipathy between two main rivals last season wouldn't have been nearly the classic it was. This year, at the front you have Kimi who often seems to just not care whether he wins or loses (although that is just an external impression no doubt), then Massa with great talent but not the necessary grandeur of character, as he is just too humble a person, a Hamilton who seems a bit lost and Heikki who must have caught the unlucky bug from Webber. The drivers in the top two teams seem to be all too willing to trip up on their way to the title. The only real highlight of this season is Kubica, but his car is just a smidgen to slow to really have a proper chance and therefore there isn't as much excitement about him as there should be.

Me, I tend to follow the battles in the midfield more closely, always did really. I still feel a heart attack coming on when the red lights light up, as you know that there'll always be a bit of a mess around the places 10-15 or so. I do certainly see where you're coming from, though.

[VoidNT]

With age you become less emotional and more reasonable (well, some of us ), but I suspect that the lack of drama on the track in today's F1 is really the case. There's too much of everything behind the scenes but the surface is too polished, which prevents from watching a good spectacle. I found 2007 season of Indycar, especially its second half, quite spectacular and dramatic and experienced nice emotions - the true racing drama and tension was there.

[HP]

@vivian
Did you miss last years finale in Brazil?

[HP]

Originally posted by VoidNT
With age you become less emotional and more reasonable (well, some of us )

Emotions are not unreasonable per se. However they need to be managed well.

But with races being more predicatble than in previous times the interest wanes.

[bankoq]

Originally posted by vivian
Where do we get to see a superb pitstop strategy winning race, jeez not a super quick stop but the whole "michael you have 15 laps to get 20 sec"... "ok" thing.

Actually, we had the same thing in Montreal, where Kubica was asked to make about 15s in 7-8 laps, and he did not worse than Schumacher used to do

[ViMaMo]

Originally posted by HP
@vivian
Did you miss last years finale in Brazil?

watched it, loved it.

Maybe my liking for Alonso seems to be the problem. Well ya, Rossi also throwing hissy fits.
Im big fan of Michael and gotten accustomed to his unique ways; some noble and some not so noble. So miss him being the top dog . It was fun seeing some young talent trying to outrace the old fox. FA just wants the best car and undisputed No1 position, otherwise he craps every other weekend. Love his racing.

And no overtaking. Hoping for the new regs.

[karlth]

Originally posted by HP
Emotions are not unreasonable per se. However they need to be managed well.

But with races being more predicatble than in previous times the interest wanes.

Considering that Schumacher and [insert his opponent] won almost every single race from 1994 til 2006 the current situation seems slightly more interesting.

[kamix]

Lewis vs Kimi just isn't as special as Alonso vs Kimi vs Schumi we had a few years ago.

[MichaelPM]

Massive lack of character at the front.

[juu-joa]

I have the same feeling about this as the starter of the thread. For me the most exciting times were the times when Kimi drove for Mclaren. Especially because of the type of qualifying they had at that time, just nervracking These days the cars are so much better and easier to drive that it looks pretty boring, if you look at Kimi's or Massa's hand movements inside the cockpit, they pretty much don't have any opposite lock. Compare this to 2002-2004 times and youll see a big difference. Also now the drivers put out a lot more consistant lap times, you don't really see anyone first ripping a ten second lead to someone and then loosing it when the other starts pushing to the limits. ..Well maybe you see that, but that's just because of the tires.

[RSNS]

I miss Schumacher, too, but if anything f1 is more interesting now. More uncertainty, apparently more difficult driving. The last race was a little boring. During the Schumacher Hakkinnen days there was a duel. Now we have more uncertainty. I think you are getting bored with races like Magny Cours and gilding the past. That is, in fact, a characteristic of getting old

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

It was more interesting in the past and one of the reasons is also lacking drama caused by reliability issues and controversial driver characters like Montoya, Villeneuve, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Mansell and others. These days there are normally racing processions, unless it rains or the safety car is out. I thought that Alonso is the best driver, but getting beaten by a reject like Piquet makes me reconsider the issue. Another point is his ongoing moaning and trying to jump into the best car (is there a Ferrari contract for 2010?), that reminds me of another past great driver, who thretened to retire if he can't get hands on the best car which was the Williams at the time. Although there may be interesting characters among the coming generation, like Bruno Senna or Sebastian Vettel. Lewis is certainly a polarising figure but he seems a bit dumb in many statements he makes. I don't know whether he cannot express himself fittingly, or whether his character is a bit flat.

[JonC]

For me F1 lost its spark at the end of 2006 when Schumacher, Montoya and to a lesser extent, Villeneuve left F1. Since then we are left with a bunch of faceless automatons - there's just no one on the grid who really inspires. I used to get really nervous before the start of a race...nowadays I just don't get the same excitement from it.

[Ferrim]

Originally posted by JonC
For me F1 lost its spark at the end of 2006 when Schumacher, Montoya and to a lesser extent, Villeneuve left F1. Since then we are left with a bunch of faceless automatons - there's just no one on the grid who really inspires. I used to get really nervous before the start of a race...nowadays I just don't get the same excitement from it.

Say whatever you want, but Alonso isn't exactly an automaton. Love him, hate him, but you know he will open his mouth, sooner rather than later, and give us some nice headlines

[dabbo]

I don't know when I last missed an F1 Grand Prix that was televised, something for sure, more than 30 years, but yes I agree the spark is certainly waning. If you want excitement, look no further than Moto GP, Rossis battle with Pedrosa yesterday had me on the edge of my seat and declining to watch the prima donna glorification hour before the start of yesterdays F1 GP, I watched instead in total awe at Scott Redding becoming the youngest Moto GP winner in history. His mental approach to the race was staggeringly mature, Lewis, take note! Last weeks Le Mans was lost by Peugeot at the hands of Jacques Villeneuve whose loss of 8 seconds a lap to the Audis early on Sunday morning in the wet, showed conclusively how good he really is.

[noikeee]

Yes, I get "the highs". There's nothing like smoking a bit of crack before watching the GP.

[man]

How I long for the days when Bernie Ecclestone used to wear tinted glasses.

[MichaelJP]

It's not all bad - now that TC has gone, it has made things a little more interesting.

I'd still like to see no launch assist engine maps though - it was so much better with the wheelspin and tiresmoke of the standing start, it was more spectacular and more chance of the pack being shuffled.

BTW dabbo, MotoGP can be amazing, but yesterdays' Donington round was a real snooze-fest. Not sure what it is about Donington but you rarely seem to see an exciting race there. Weird because I actually like the flowing circuit to drive or ride around.

[pacwest]

It's more about racing now than entertainment. I know it sounds weird but think of it.

Lots of rules coming into play these days. Lots of penalties. The people that should be fighting for position are not.

Had cooler heads prevailed Sunday, we would have been in for a cracking race. Alas. Understand that there has been some wholesale changes in F1 recently and that your heroes of the past gone and the future heroes of the past are still under 27.

In ten years the current crop will be half gone and the remaining half will be future legends. It's cyclic nd we're still in first gear.

[pingu666]

wsbk monza and nurbring (race 2 for both)
if u arent on the edge of your seat for them, then your laying down in a coffin

[Nitropower]

You're getting old, but that's not the main reason why you are not thrilled by races.
Racing has become more boring these days, we are lacking a duel. However in the Schumacher times there were really boring seasons where no one could do anything against the best machine in the grid. The exciting Schumi times were with Mika, and his last year with Alonso, that one was just amazing. Even in 2005 there was a very interesting duel between Kimi and Alonso.

But this year, no one can dominate, not even having the best car (Ferrari), races are mostly dull, it's a bad sign when many people prays for rain. Tracks are way too narrow to pass with an interesting frequency, and differences between one team and the others are always big, except if someone spies on them... in the eighties you had these big characters, but they didn't have the best car all the time, there were alternatives, different people won, I don't know... I feel the same as you, I'm starting not to be as much interested any more. Maybe without dumb mistakes from LH, dumb mistakes and a good car for FA, this would change. Say what you want but I think Lewis needs Alonso in a good car, it's not the same to fight with an apparently piece of ice or an irregular Brazilian. Just my opinion. And Kubica doesn't really have the car either.

[RSNS]

Just to qualify my earlier post: I meant that f1 today is more interesting (because it is more difficult to predict) than it was in the Schumacher years. Of course it is much less interesting than it was in the Lauda-Prost-Senna years.

Next year driving will be yet more difficult. Watching the racing lines is very interesting right now. A pity there are not more onboards. Also a pity that TV does not cover the entire lap of the main drivers and keeps shifting to show some mechanics in the pits, the back of Ron Dennis and such trivia.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by MichaelPM
Massive lack of character at the front.

Agree with that.

[kismet]

The less 'character' in sight the better.

[Alfisti]

Apart from hamilton no one has the "wow" factor. Kemi is a freaking corpse, Massa just leaves you feeling meh and HK is dull as dishwater.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by vivian
Strangely I just dont feel the enthusiasm these days. Gone are the days when i felt nervous, heart thumping watching Michael alongside Mika on the grid. Even Montoya days were ok.

Where do we get to see a superb pitstop strategy winning race, jeez not a super quick stop but the whole "michael you have 15 laps to get 20 sec"... "ok" thing.

Massa and Kimi seem to drive around, trading wins but no close racing for the win.

Or am I getting old?

Anyone enjoying this like Mika-Mike days? How many smart wins have we seen?

I have now read a few posts expressing the same sentiment. I am depressed as well over what I see, and what's worse, you cannot even discuss it, because there is new crowd on this BB who is watching their first or second season, they know it all while getting delirious by crusing what you receive for Kubehead and alike, and you will be damn if you don’t like it.

Eyeing the grid on Sunday, I don't get the shivers anymore that Gods of eighties or nineties had arrived. It’s pale, colorless, and without taste.

[Sakae]

Originally posted by hello86
It is always the same.
At the time when Mika and Schummelschumi drove, everybody thought: "wow the beginning of the 90´s was pretty great and exciting.

In a few years when you think back of 2007 and 2008, you will think "wow that were great times".

And I don´t think that the boring races are because of the drivers.
It is just this stupid regulations and the cars which doesn´t make it easy to overtake.

Maybe, maybe not. There was overtaking last weekend, yet still dull. It's hard to root for the machine without soul, and after Alain Prost fighting his arch rivals (Senna, Hill, and Schumi in a few races), and then Schumi and his career, it's hard to accept a new guy. I thought Kimi will do it, but I was wrong. My hopes are now with Vettel and his generation, assuming he gets out of that stupid car he is in right now.

[Atreiu]

Only when McLaren win.

[JazH]

I also don't get the thrill, Schumacher was thrilling...

I'm not getting this from Massa (he's ok...) and especially Raikonnen (total bore).

Alonso is the only dramatic racer, Lewis Hamilton is just a spin machine for the British Press.

Bring back Schumi!

[Peter Perfect]

Originally posted by MiPe
I have now read a few posts expressing the same sentiment. I am depressed as well over what I see, and what's worse, you cannot even discuss it, because there is new crowd on this BB who is watching their first or second season, they know it all while getting delirious by crusing what you receive for Kubehead and alike, and you will be damn if you don’t like it.

Eyeing the grid on Sunday, I don't get the shivers anymore that Gods of eighties or nineties had arrived. It’s pale, colorless, and without taste.

Sadly that sounds horribly familiar. I miss the rush I used to get seconds before the start of each race.

[noikeee]

Funny, I've found this and last year to be way more thrilling that anything since maybe 1999.

It just changes from person to person depending on who the personal favourites are. And personally I had enough of watching Schumacher winning. His retirement brought something fresh to the show.

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by paranoik0
Funny, I've found this and last year to be way more thrilling that anything since maybe 1999.

It just changes from person to person depending on who the personal favourites are. And personally I had enough of watching Schumacher winning. His retirement brought something fresh to the show.

I thought 2003 was absolutely nerve wrecking, even after the tyregate.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by JonC
For me F1 lost its spark at the end of 2006 when Schumacher, Montoya and to a lesser extent, Villeneuve left F1. Since then we are left with a bunch of faceless automatons - there's just no one on the grid who really inspires. I used to get really nervous before the start of a race...nowadays I just don't get the same excitement from it.

Strange... when Schumacher entered F1 back in 1991 I thought "Great driver - but what a faceless automaton"

[snx843]

I had some thrills with some of the powerplay between Alonso and Lewis last year...Like Indy, that race was knife-edge!

However compared to the Schumacher 94-2003 period I rarely get much enjoyment watching Massa, or Kimi.

I find them boring to watch, compared to Schumacher. Lewis is a fun to watch, but I haven't been excited this year at all.

[noikeee]

Originally posted by Atreiu


I thought 2003 was absolutely nerve wrecking, even after the tyregate.

It was a good season, I just didn't get involved in it as much personally.

[HP]

Originally posted by karlth


Considering that Schumacher and [insert his opponent] won almost every single race from 1994 til 2006 the current situation seems slightly more interesting.

Excuse me? Last 30 years stats below. The trend started in 1984 and continues to this day. Look at the list, without the names (except for 1997). There are a few outstanding years on each side of the extremes.

Year Races No. of Race    Wins per WDC position
           Winners 

1978   16    6      6 / 2 / 4 / 2 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1979   15    7      3 / 3 / 4 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1980   14    7      5 / 3 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 1
1981   15    7      3 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 3 / 1 / 2
1982   16    11     1 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
1983   15    8      3 / 4 / 3 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 1
1984   16    5      5 / 7 / 0 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 1
1985   16    8      5 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 1 / 0 / 1
1986   16    5      4 / 5 / 4 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 1
1987   16    5      3 / 6 / 2 / 3 / 2
1988   16    3      8 / 7 / 1
1989   16    6      4 / 6 / 0 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 1
1990   16    5      6 / 5 / 2 / 0 / 1 / 1
1991   16    5      7 / 5 / 2 / 1 / 0 / 1
1992   16    5      9 / 1 / 1 / 3 / 2
1993   16    4      7 / 5 / 3 / 1
1994   16    4      8 / 6 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1995   17    5      9 / 4 / 1 / 2 / 1
1996   16    4      8 / 4 / 3 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1997   17    6      7 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 1 / 1 / (5) MS 
1998   16    4      8 / 6 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 1
1999   16    6      5 / 4 / 2 / 2 / 2  / 0 / 0 / 1
2000   17    4      9 / 4 / 3 / 1
2001   17    5      9 / 2 / 0 / 3 / 2 / 1
2002   17    4      11 / 4 / 0 / 1 / 1
2003   16    8      6 / 1 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
2004   18    5      13 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 1 / 1
2005   19    5      7 / 7 / 1 / 3 / 1
2006   18    5      7 / 7 / 2 / 1 / 0 / 1
2007   17    4      6 / 4 / 4 / 3
2008    8    4      3 / 1 / 2 / 2                (season in progress)

NB) While doing this list I noticed that there are quite a few years where that years championship winner had less race wins than 2 or even 3rd placed driver. That's what I learned from doing this list.

[skinnylizard]

Originally posted by vivian
Strangely I just dont feel the enthusiasm these days. Gone are the days when i felt nervous, heart thumping watching Michael alongside Mika on the grid. Even Montoya days were ok.

Where do we get to see a superb pitstop strategy winning race, jeez not a super quick stop but the whole "michael you have 15 laps to get 20 sec"... "ok" thing.

Massa and Kimi seem to drive around, trading wins but no close racing for the win.

Or am I getting old?

Anyone enjoying this like Mika-Mike days? How many smart wins have we seen?

its drier this year. i have been falling asleep at practically every race, i didnt even Kubica win last time. Never happened before except the odd race once a year.

last year was brilliant.

it is still fairly tight this year but i something seems amiss.

[karlth]

Originally posted by HP
Excuse me? Last 30 years stats below. The trend started in 1984 and continues to this day. Look at the list, without the names (except for 1997). There are a few outstanding years on each side of the extremes.

Most of the years from 1994 were dominated by two drivers only. Not only that but in the majority of races the outcome was decided after the first pitstop.

In fact most of the races consisted of a car or two, usually from the same team, driving into the distance and never racing each other.

Qualifying was 30 minutes of waiting followed later by around 5 minutes of end of session excitement followed again by 15 minutes of complaints about Minardis ruining their laps.

In 1994 the fans were fed what seemed to be 2 news items per month and no live timing. In fact if you wanted to talk to someone outside of your house about F1 you had to post on the Usenet's rec.autos.sport.f1 forum which had no AFCA but a wide range of certified halfwits[tm].

The only thing that is unchanged in Formula 1 is the view that racing was brilliant 5 years ago.

Having said that there were of course several vintage seasons of competitive driving/racing including 1991, 1997, 2003 and by the look of things the current one as well

[RSNS]

Originally posted by HP
Excuse me? Last 30 years stats below. The trend started in 1984 and continues to this day. Look at the list, without the names (except for 1997). There are a few outstanding years on each side of the extremes.

Year Races No. of Race    Wins per WDC position
           Winners 

1978   16    6      6 / 2 / 4 / 2 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1979   15    7      3 / 3 / 4 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1980   14    7      5 / 3 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 1
1981   15    7      3 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 3 / 1 / 2
1982   16    11     1 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
1983   15    8      3 / 4 / 3 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 1
1984   16    5      5 / 7 / 0 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 1
1985   16    8      5 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 1 / 0 / 1
1986   16    5      4 / 5 / 4 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 1
1987   16    5      3 / 6 / 2 / 3 / 2
1988   16    3      8 / 7 / 1
1989   16    6      4 / 6 / 0 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 1
1990   16    5      6 / 5 / 2 / 0 / 1 / 1
1991   16    5      7 / 5 / 2 / 1 / 0 / 1
1992   16    5      9 / 1 / 1 / 3 / 2
1993   16    4      7 / 5 / 3 / 1
1994   16    4      8 / 6 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1995   17    5      9 / 4 / 1 / 2 / 1
1996   16    4      8 / 4 / 3 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
1997   17    6      7 / 1 / 2 / 0 / 1 / 1 / (5) MS 
1998   16    4      8 / 6 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 1
1999   16    6      5 / 4 / 2 / 2 / 2  / 0 / 0 / 1
2000   17    4      9 / 4 / 3 / 1
2001   17    5      9 / 2 / 0 / 3 / 2 / 1
2002   17    4      11 / 4 / 0 / 1 / 1
2003   16    8      6 / 1 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1
2004   18    5      13 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 1 / 1
2005   19    5      7 / 7 / 1 / 3 / 1
2006   18    5      7 / 7 / 2 / 1 / 0 / 1
2007   17    4      6 / 4 / 4 / 3
2008    8    4      3 / 1 / 2 / 2                (season in progress)

NB) While doing this list I noticed that there are quite a few years where that years championship winner had less race wins than 2 or even 3rd placed driver. That's what I learned from doing this list.

Illuminating data, thank you. I think this shows people like it when there is either a duel between two charismatic drivers or when their favourite driver wins. How else can we explain that people liked the Schumacher years?

In terms of racing this year is being MORE interesting than the previous. That is because there is no traction control and watching drivers in action is far more interesting and because there are at least three strong candidates to WCD. This has not happened in years.

People like their favorites to win. When there is uncertainty - when racing is at his best - they no longer like it. Were Massa to be a good looking, strong macho figure, I bet people would be happy.


..

[potmotr]

Originally posted by vivian
Strangely I just dont feel the enthusiasm these days. Gone are the days when i felt nervous, heart thumping watching Michael alongside Mika on the grid. Even Montoya days were ok.

Are you serious? Mika stopped being a consistently competitive force at the end of 2000.
Since then I didn't feel passion, I felt myself going to sleep during the endless years of Schumacher domination. I don't know about getting the highs, but if you want to feel raw emotion these days try being a Nick Heidfeld support, especially during qualifying!

[donald29]

Last season had an immensely exciting points battle, but some very boring races (with some notable exceptions)