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#1 red stick

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 19:23

Another week, another short oval. If you liked Iowa, you'll love Richmond. Televised on ESPN at 8:00 EDT.

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#2 pingu666

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 19:39

richmond sounds like its balls deep in rednecksville

should be fun then :)

#3 potmotr

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 19:40

Scott Dixon to win again, hands down.

#4 pingu666

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 19:59

what colour is his car?

#5 jonpollak

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 22:53

Originally posted by pingu666
richmond sounds like its balls deep in rednecksville


What does 'balls deep' mean?
Jp

#6 random

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 23:10

Originally posted by pingu666
[B]richmond sounds like its balls deep in rednecksville

Uh, no. You're thinking about the deep south, Richmond is just a short drive from Washington DC. The inner city is mostly black, the surrounding counties are mostly white "could-be-anywhere-USA" suburbs. (like a lot of US cities)

Think "mini-Atlanta", with a Lot less heat and traffic.

Originally posted by pingu666
should be fun then

On that, I hope you're right.

Just got my annual pack of 4 complimentary tickets. I never even ask for them. Ever since this race started the sponsors have dumped tickets like rain.

The estimates I've seen suggest a crowd of 40k. The track seats over 110,000, so I expect the entire back stretch grandstands will be closed off. Still, 40k for an IndyCar race isn't bad, even if 10k+ of the tickets are give aways.

#7 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 00:33

Originally posted by jonpollak


What does 'balls deep' mean?
Jp


Oh man, not sure if I want to touch this one.

#8 pingu666

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 03:20

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker


Oh man, not sure if I want to touch this one.


i really think u shouldnt :lol:

and oops, sounded so deep south to me :cat:

#9 random

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 06:11

Originally posted by pingu666
and oops, sounded so deep south to me

Well, Richmond was the capital of the confederacy during the US civil war. They've got a bunch of statues honoring the losing side. Still, Richmond is about as far north as you can go and still be in "The South". I don't think there is any "southern city" that's further north.

#10 MattPete

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 12:50

Originally posted by random


Uh, no. You're thinking about the deep south, Richmond is just a short drive from Washington DC. The inner city is mostly black, the surrounding counties are mostly white "could-be-anywhere-USA" suburbs. (like a lot of US cities)

Think "mini-Atlanta", with a Lot less heat and traffic.


If by short drive you mean 100-125 miles...

No, it's not redneck-ville, but I wouldn't associate Richmond too closely with DC and Northern Virginia (NoVA - DC suburbs). There are plenty of people in NoVA that would just assume succeed from the rest of the state, due to cultural and financial (taxation) reasons.

#11 random

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 15:18

Originally posted by MattPete
If by short drive you mean 100-125 miles...

No, it's not redneck-ville, but I wouldn't associate Richmond too closely with DC and Northern Virginia (NoVA - DC suburbs). There are plenty of people in NoVA that would just assume succeed from the rest of the state, due to cultural and financial (taxation) reasons.


I call it short because I've driven 16 hours to go to a race, on multiple occasions. I've driven DC to Richmond in less than an hour and a half, not even speeding all that much. To me, that's not a "long drive". Depends on where you're going, but downtown DC to downtown Richmond is less than 100 miles. Nova to Richmond can be quite a bit less. Depending on where you live in NoVA, and of course, traffic.

Never said Richmond was NoVA, just said it definitely wasn't redneck-ville, it's not. Compared to rural Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, South Carolina or big parts of Appalachia, Richmond is big-city. As for wanting to secede, I think a lot of central and southern Virginians would be fine with seceding from NoVA. Many of them consider Nova to be entirely different state that just steals their tax dollars to build NoVA roads. That and NoVA has turned the solid politically Red Virginia into a Blue state in less than 6 years. On the roads, they have a point, the Red / Blue part I find funny as hell.

#12 Lantern

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 15:20

I don't know which is more wrong. The assumption that rednecks are only in the South or that black folks can't be rednecks.;)


Back on topic I LOVE racing at Richmond. One of the best experiences I've had live was an IRL race there. Of course it was a night race and I had free food and beer for 8 hours in an air conditioned area as a "Guest of Firestone", but great race none the less. :D

#13 IOU 16

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 15:31

Originally posted by random




Just got my annual pack of 4 complimentary tickets. I never even ask for them. Ever since this race started the sponsors have dumped tickets like rain.

The estimates I've seen suggest a crowd of 40k. The track seats over 110,000, so I expect the entire back stretch grandstands will be closed off. Still, 40k for an IndyCar race isn't bad, even if 10k+ of the tickets are give aways.


Thanks for telling us you got free tickets. More proof the series is in need of help.

Back in the day though there would have been at least 70 thousand.

#14 ColdHeart

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 16:41

Back in WHAT day?

CART and CC _never_ raced on a 3/4 mile oval. Ever. Maybe if they had, they'd still be in business.

And your slam about free tickets is equally hilarious. Who do you think buys all those tickets at NASCAR, the fan with his hard-earned money? Every sponsor and Official Processed Manure Product hands out tickets by the fistful.

#15 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 16:46

I am a former NoVA resident, current DC Metro area resident, and many time visitor to Richmond.

Richmond is no more "balls deep in rednecksville" than the South Side of Boston is "ass deep in bluebloodsville."

Also, who said blacks can't be rednecks? (Even though they'd have to be in the sun a lot longer than the average white person to get a sunburn on their neck)

#16 IOU 16

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 16:47

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker


Also, who said blacks can't be rednecks? (Even though they'd have to be in the sun a lot longer than the average white person to get a sunburn on their neck)



Kid I graduated with was an African American and wore a short to school with a confederate flag.


To ColdHeart (fitting name): Lets not get into a pisson contest over a series no one really gives a care about.

#17 FLB

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 16:49

I went there in 2005. It's an impressive track. You can basically see the entire track from any seating position :)

#18 ColdHeart

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 17:08

Originally posted by IOU 16



Kid I graduated with was an African American and wore a short to school with a confederate flag.


To ColdHeart (fitting name): Lets not get into a pisson contest over a series no one really gives a care about.


If you don't want to get into a "pissing contest," don't make wild, unsubstantiated claims.

#19 ColdHeart

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 17:11

Originally posted by FLB
I went there in 2005. It's an impressive track. You can basically see the entire track from any seating position :)


I was there that same year, it's a great experience. It will be HOT, though....94 right now.

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#20 MattPete

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 17:29

Originally posted by random
. As for wanting to secede, I think a lot of central and southern Virginians would be fine with seceding from NoVA. Many of them consider Nova to be entirely different state that just steals their tax dollars to build NoVA roads.


The ironic thing is that NoVA (and to a lesser extent, Hampton Roads) funds the rest of the state, including their roads (the majority of NoVA tax dollars do not stay in NoVA).

So, while NoVA is one of the wealthiest regions in the country, its infrastructure is falling apart and pretty 3rd world IMO. We ask for money to fix the roads, and Richmond says 'no'. We say "Look, we're willing to tax ourselves and pay for the roads ourselves; it won't cost you a dime" and Richmond says 'no'. We point out that 60% of our taxes are going downstate, so why not spend/spread the money evenly, and Richmond says 'no'.

But, this has nothing to do with the race, other than it is in Richmond.

#21 Flat Black

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 22:58

Well, whatever. I just hope the rain holds off.

:D

#22 Bumper

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:12

No Keith Huewen tonight? :(

Never mind, at least we have 'Helio Castronovas' and 'Tony Kennun' on the grid the Sky replacement girl announces.

#23 FLB

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:17

Two yellows already. Hunter-Reay spun at the start and Power's just hit the wall.

#24 Ali_G

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:19

Originally posted by Bumper
No Keith Huewen tonight? :(

Never mind, at least we have 'Helio Castronovas' and 'Tony Kennun' on the grid the Sky replacement girl announces.


I don't think we'll see much of Huewen doing IRL this season.

In the case where
- Both races are on different nights
- Where the IRL race is on late
- Where the IRL race follows the NASCAR race
- Where the IRL race is tape delayed

Then no Huewen.



I thought it was more Tony Canon but nevermind. :)

#25 Ali_G

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:28

Not much racing so far.

#26 FLB

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:50

This is a yellow fest like some IRL races were circa 1996-97... :( ):

#27 Rob G

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:53

At this rate there won't be anybody left for the extra 50 laps.

#28 FLB

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:55

This is actually worse than the worst of the IRL... :down:

#29 SlateGray

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 00:57

Crash fest amateur hour

#30 FLB

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:20

I'm glad I'm not there this year! :eek:

#31 Bob Riebe

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:22

Until it drops to 1996 CART US 500 level it has not hit the bottom.

#32 Buford

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:30

Not impressed with the quality of the driving. You would think it was Formula One the way these turkeys are driving.

#33 f1seb

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:32

Wow there are no fans watching this race at all......how freaking sad.

#34 Buford

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:33

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
Until it drops to 1996 CART US 500 level it has not hit the bottom.


Why because a couple of cars touched on the pace lap and caused a crash? They did the very same thing at Indy the following year - remember that? I remember Dan Gurney saying in 1966, "You would think 33 of what are supposed to be the best drivers in the world could drive down a little straight piece of road without this happening."

#35 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:45

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
Until it drops to 1996 CART US 500 level it has not hit the bottom.

How would you like it?
Like 1964 with two drivers dead on the first lap at Indy?
Expand that thought if you will.
9 yellows,so far, nice.
WTF are they doing on a track like this anyway?
Is this the oval vision thing?
Richmond is a huge market?

#36 Rob G

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:48

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
Until it drops to 1996 CART US 500 level it has not hit the bottom.

In the first 175 laps of tonight's race, 84 were under green and 91 were under yellow, all due to accidents. The bar has been raised tonight. Or lowered. Or whatever.

#37 MattPete

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:53

I really haven't been following the IRL until this year, so I haven't kept up with Dan Wheldon, so can someone tell me why he looks like a girl?

#38 FLB

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:55

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII
9 yellows,so far, nice.
WTF are they doing on a track like this anyway?
Is this the oval vision thing?
Richmond is a huge market?

It's usually a good race. The race I went to in 2005 was also pretty good, without anything near the carnage of tonight. It's not the track.

Brian Barnhart is going to need to have to talk to a few drivers after the race...

#39 Rob G

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:59

Originally posted by MattPete
I really haven't been following the IRL until this year, so I haven't kept up with Dan Wheldon, so can someone tell me why he looks like a girl?

Because he is "Mindy."

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#40 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:02

Originally posted by FLB
It's usually a good race. The race I went to in 2005 was also pretty good, without anything near the carnage of tonight. It's not the track.

Brian Barnhart is going to need to have to talk to a few drivers after the race...

they should dump this race and add Phoenix back to the schedule for a short track race.
Better market and a better track.

#41 Buford

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:05

The IRL stunk up Phoenix so bad not only did fans stop coming but it killed the Copper World Classic too.

#42 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:32

Originally posted by Buford
Not impressed with the quality of the driving. You would think it was Formula One the way these turkeys are driving.


LMAO!

#43 random

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:48

Originally posted by f1seb
Wow there are no fans watching this race at all......how freaking sad.

Actually there were a lot of fans at the race. I suspect you're referring to the big empty sections of grandstands. It's true, about half the grandstands were empty. That said, Richmond has a HUGE amount of seating, and the other half of the grandstands were pretty full.

The owners of the track Close Off about half the grand stands, fans are not allowed to enter them. That is why a shot of the back stretch shows completely empty grandstands. I suppose they could have opened the entire grandstands, then all the stands would have been about half full of fans. On TV, it would probably have looked like a mostly full house. I guess that would be better for IndyCar, but by closing off half the grandstands the owners of the track are definitely saving on clean up costs and security.

Even with half the stands empty, that is still a Lot of fans. That small track seats a massive 112,000. This year was the biggest crowed I've ever seen there for an IndyCar race. Easily 40,000, I heard second hand that the promoter was claiming attendance of 60,000! It was hard to tell the density, however, they did have to open up extra sections of grandstands as the start time approached, sections I've never seen used before. That in addition to the huge new tower grandstand that was opened about two years ago. The crowds have gotten consistently larger over the last 5 years.

As for the quality of the race, I think most of the track side fans thought they saw a heck of a show. There were a lot of wrecks and some good racing. The lack of remaining cars (only 12 I think) made the last 80 laps pretty boring, all the idiots had wrecked themselves out by then. The first 200 laps were pretty interesting. A lot of different strategies and some quality racing. Camara was the star of the show until he spun out. I don't know if they showed this on the TV broadcast, but Camara must have made 20 passes for position during the race, perhaps more. Marco raced well during the crash fest as of course did Kannan. Had the yellows fallen differently, Marco could have won. Wilson, Patrick and Servia all got good finishes by not screwing up.

Perhaps not one of the better quality races I've been to, but certainly one of the most interesting.

#44 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:53

That what I was thinking. Interesting race. Jamie Camara was the star of the race putting Conquest car in the lead and hanging out with the leaders til he lost it and wrecked. Few drivers found the high groove working such as Camara and Helio Castro-Neves. It was race for survival without crashing. Good job to Tony Kannan for winning.

#45 Rob29

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 10:17

Must be the worst crashfest I have ever seen.This track is clearly unsuitable for IRL.As it was in the middle of the night here I taped the 2 hour slot listed.Watched this morning-at least that way I can fast foward the ad breaks :) We then lost coverage due to weather problems and were treated to highlights of last weeks race and last years Watkins Glen.At 3am VCR switched off as scheduled so I have yet to see last 50 laps. :eek:

#46 Ali_G

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 12:13

I fell asleep after the 5th yellow or so. Anything under a mile only seems to be fit for stock car racing.

How did the race finish off btw. Constant yellow fest ?

#47 sammich

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 13:39

Constant yellows until about 100 laps to go. Then there were so few cars it was a parade. One of the worse races I've seen. Worst race I've seen in awhile.

#48 McGuire

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 13:50

Originally posted by IOU 16


Thanks for telling us you got free tickets. More proof the series is in need of help.

Back in the day though there would have been at least 70 thousand.


I have been attending open wheel races in North America for over 30 years. A 70K crowd would be very unusual "back in the day." Certainly not the rule. Few venues were even large enough for a crowd of that size.

Comping and papering (distribution of free tickets) is a tradition in racing. It was the chief gate builder in the Big Tobacco/engine manufacturer era in CART. (If you knew where to look there was no reason to buy a ticket.) Personally, I don't have a big problem with it. Someone is buying the ticket and that is a ticket sale for the track. It's not as good as a walk-up but the hope is these spectators can be converted into permanent fans.

I think people can drive themselves and each other crazy trying to take the temperature of the sport every week on the basis of race attendance and television ratings. These are things you look at every year, not every ten minutes. Meanwhile racing is subject to all the same economic forces as every other sport and these factors must be considered too. Given the huge increases in the price of gasoline, air travel, etc, along with the state of the economy in general and the auto industry in particular, it is not reasonable to expect a big increase in live attendance this season. NASCAR is down this year too.

#49 JacnGille

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 14:49

I want to develop a carbon fiber recyclin process. I'll follow the IRL circus and be richer that Bernie in a year or too. :cool:

#50 Flat Black

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 15:20

Pretty hideous race. The worst of the year. Not sure how suited Richmond is for Indycars. Would much prefer that Michigan be on the schedule than Richmond.

PS--Looked like a very good crowd to me. Reid said well in excess of 60,000. I'm sure IRL and the Richmond promoters are pleased.

PPS--Buddy Rice and AJ IV are a study in contrasts. Both screwed up. Rice admitted it like a man; Foyt wormed out like a weasel.

PPPS--Danica is a finisher. She is never that fast and never seems a threat to win, but she almost never crashes out and always finishes somewhere between #4 and #7.