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Why do you think the other drivers are all rubbish?


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#1 pacificquay

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 22:44

The only driver who is any good is one who wins every single race of the season from pole, according to internet forumers.

Even then he can't be that good because he was only 3rd quickest in Friday Practice at the 2003 Bulgarian Grand Prix.




Reading through so many threads on this forum I see bile being poured on Hamilton, or Raikkonen, or Massa, or Kovalianen or Kubica or whoever.

Usually the fans of one driver belittle their main rival.


What I can't work out is this.

If all the other drivers are so bad, it can't mean much when your man beats them!

Surely fans of drivers should actually talk up the opposition, so it means more if you beat them?


If you're a Raikkonen fan and think Hamilton's rubbish, then it's not worth a whole lot if Kimi beats Lewis. And if Lewis beats Kimi, then that must make Kimi even worse!

Or vice versa.


We have entered a strange world where people on the internet think they know best, and dish out criticism for every minor thing. It seems the internet has taken away from the respect and admiration we once held drivers in.

Very depressing and illogical.

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#2 le chat noir

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 22:51

Originally posted by pacificquay

We have entered a strange world where people on the internet think they know best, and dish out criticism for every minor thing.

Very depressing and illogical.


is a comment needed?

but to answer your question you can't work out: there are more than two drivers in each race, and F1 at its core is not about competition between driver and driver, or car and car. its about the combination of car and driver against nature.

#3 undersquare

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 23:02

Originally posted by pacificquay
The only driver who is any good is one who wins every single race of the season from pole, according to internet forumers.

Even then he can't be that good because he was only 3rd quickest in Friday Practice at the 2003 Bulgarian Grand Prix.




Reading through so many threads on this forum I see bile being poured on Hamilton, or Raikkonen, or Massa, or Kovalianen or Kubica or whoever.

Usually the fans of one driver belittle their main rival.


What I can't work out is this.

If all the other drivers are so bad, it can't mean much when your man beats them!

Surely fans of drivers should actually talk up the opposition, so it means more if you beat them?


If you're a Raikkonen fan and think Hamilton's rubbish, then it's not worth a whole lot if Kimi beats Lewis. And if Lewis beats Kimi, then that must make Kimi even worse!

Or vice versa.


We have entered a strange world where people on the internet think they know best, and dish out criticism for every minor thing. It seems the internet has taken away from the respect and admiration we once held drivers in.

Very depressing and illogical.


There are too many nasty posts here IMO. I was about to post in the press conference thread, just a comment about what fun it seems to have been, but then the last three posts were just nasty stuff about Lewis, personal insults about "daddy" and so on, nothing to do with anything but the posters' own negativity. These people are just using the forum as an outlet, it seems here they can say things that wouldn't be accepted anywhere else, so they congregate here. I suddenly felt it wasn't worth posting, so I didn't.

#4 SlateGray

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 23:06

Originally posted by undersquare


There are too many nasty posts here IMO. I was about to post in the press conference thread, just a comment about what fun it seems to have been, but then the last three posts were just nasty stuff about Lewis, personal insults about "daddy" and so on, nothing to do with anything but the posters' own negativity. These people are just using the forum as an outlet, it seems here they can say things that wouldn't be accepted anywhere else, so they congregate here. I suddenly felt it wasn't worth posting, so I didn't.


You just did.

#5 Perigee

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 23:10

Originally posted by SlateGray


You just did.

I feel an "I've told you once already" moment coming on...

#6 Mauseri

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 23:11

Originally posted by pacificquay
The only driver who is any good is one who wins every single race of the season from pole, according to internet forumers.

Even then he can't be that good because he was only 3rd quickest in Friday Practice at the 2003 Bulgarian Grand Prix.




Reading through so many threads on this forum I see bile being poured on Hamilton, or Raikkonen, or Massa, or Kovalianen or Kubica or whoever.

Usually the fans of one driver belittle their main rival.


What I can't work out is this.

If all the other drivers are so bad, it can't mean much when your man beats them!

Surely fans of drivers should actually talk up the opposition, so it means more if you beat them?


If you're a Raikkonen fan and think Hamilton's rubbish, then it's not worth a whole lot if Kimi beats Lewis. And if Lewis beats Kimi, then that must make Kimi even worse!

Or vice versa.


We have entered a strange world where people on the internet think they know best, and dish out criticism for every minor thing. It seems the internet has taken away from the respect and admiration we once held drivers in.

Very depressing and illogical.

If Kimi is such a bad driver, what does it make Massa and Hamilton, both of whom Kimi beat last year and will beat again this year :drunk:

See... the question is who is better than who. If you say Kimi is better than Massa, it obviously doesnt make Kimi look worse than Massa. It's in no way belitling Kimi, it's just about fixing the rank list and getting your favorite on top of the list.

#7 inca_roads

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 23:15

Originally posted by pacificquay
The only driver who is any good is one who wins every single race of the season from pole, according to internet forumers.

Even then he can't be that good because he was only 3rd quickest in Friday Practice at the 2003 Bulgarian Grand Prix.




Reading through so many threads on this forum I see bile being poured on Hamilton, or Raikkonen, or Massa, or Kovalianen or Kubica or whoever.

Usually the fans of one driver belittle their main rival.


What I can't work out is this.

If all the other drivers are so bad, it can't mean much when your man beats them!

Surely fans of drivers should actually talk up the opposition, so it means more if you beat them?


If you're a Raikkonen fan and think Hamilton's rubbish, then it's not worth a whole lot if Kimi beats Lewis. And if Lewis beats Kimi, then that must make Kimi even worse!

Or vice versa.


We have entered a strange world where people on the internet think they know best, and dish out criticism for every minor thing. It seems the internet has taken away from the respect and admiration we once held drivers in.

Very depressing and illogical.


:up: I would add to that a disturbing trend of declaring someone as "finished, rubbish, WDC chances gone" etc as soon as they have a bad race. Even if they've had plenty of good ones.

#8 Will

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 23:34

Originally posted by inca_roads


:up: I would add to that a disturbing trend of declaring someone as "finished, rubbish, WDC chances gone" etc as soon as they have a bad race. Even if they've had plenty of good ones.


Yes that is particularly irritating. After the opening races, it was Massa who should be fired, then after Monaco it was Kimi who has supposedly lost all motivation and after Magny-Cours Lewis has supposdly forgotten to drive. A couple of bad races from Kubica and he will soon join the club!

#9 fastlegs

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 23:42

Hey, most forums are similar to this one in that respect, especially when it comes to sports.

There are numerous reasons why some people become nasty and obnoxious when they participate in this kind of environment.

I think it also has to do with human nature and the modern times we live in.

#10 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 03:37

It just so happens that I am the one person in the internet world who knows that about which he is talking.

The good drivers are just about equal, they each have slight comparative advantages, and the ones who encounter situations that favor their advantages are the ones who succeed the most.

Of course they all work hard to cultivate those advantages but no one knows for sure the exact conditions encountered over the course of the season, plus some types of competitive advantages are harder to learn than others.

That's what makes sport the world's greatest unscripted drama.

You're welcome.

(Just to be sure, while I believe much of the content of this post, it's delivered with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

#11 pingu666

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 05:10

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
It just so happens that I am the one person in the internet world who knows that about which he is talking.

The good drivers are just about equal, they each have slight comparative advantages, and the ones who encounter situations that favor their advantages are the ones who succeed the most.

Of course they all work hard to cultivate those advantages but no one knows for sure the exact conditions encountered over the course of the season, plus some types of competitive advantages are harder to learn than others.

That's what makes sport the world's greatest unscripted drama.

You're welcome.

(Just to be sure, while I believe much of the content of this post, it's delivered with tongue firmly planted in cheek)


:up:

personaly i feel the main thing in performance is luck, then other variables. kimi and massa are very close, one is normaly only slightly faster...

my personal pet annoyance is how everything is critical, when it sodding well isnt. i watched superpole in world superbike, guy was talking about how it was a critical lap for so and so, how they hadto impress etc.
the guy who qualified tenth one the first race :rolleyes:

#12 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 05:44

Isn't there a saying like "luck is when preparation meets opportunity" or something?

I think, generally speaking, you make your own luck. Thing is all the obvious, slightly less obvious, etc preparations are all made by all the teams and drivers. We're several orders of magnitude down the scale in terms of effort:results but everyone is still scrambling for that minute difference.

#13 tormave

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 06:01

The average age of the people of write here seems to be about 13. Expecting a fact based debate over anything is simply futile.

#14 airwise

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 07:38

Originally posted by tormave
The average age of the people of write here seems to be about 13. Expecting a fact based debate over anything is simply futile.


That's been my suspicion too. Nice to see a good thread - sad to say it's not about motor racing as such.

There's too many personal insults on this forum these days to make reading or posting a pleasure. And the real knowledge is so well hidden by this mountain of prepubescent macho shit that it's increasingly difficult to see it's value. A great shame but until you have some kind of membership fee and real control these abuses are bound to happen.

#15 Bloggsworth

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 20:35

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! Pacificquay, don't you understand that any attempt to bring rationality to this forum is doomed to failure. To consider the merits of a driver other than your own personal God is to reduce the size of your penis, and what macho man, his gonads engorged with testosterone, is going to take a machete to his own penile appendage? To admit another driver's ability is to cast doubt upon one's own judgement, to admit that the man alongside you can piss higher up the wall. It is a concomitant that contumely shall be heaped upon the head of that no good son of a camel driver driving the sky blue pink car with the yellow spots, specially if he beats the only begotten son of the union between Paris and Helen of Troy, that paradigm of the driver's art, that man among boys - My driver.

#16 MichaelPM

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 20:48

The drivers I support are in possession of the skills I value or rate the most, other drivers do not have the same level of skills which I cherish.

I assume it is the same for most.

#17 SirSaltire

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:21

Originally posted by inca_roads


:up: I would add to that a disturbing trend of declaring someone as "finished, rubbish, WDC chances gone" etc as soon as they have a bad race. Even if they've had plenty of good ones.

That drives me around the twist as well! Are people really that fickle? :drunk:

#18 Bloggsworth

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:21

Originally posted by MichaelPM
The drivers I support are in possession of the skills I value or rate the most, other drivers do not have the same level of skills which I cherish.


Oh dear, another reasonable man; no room for you here mate. You will have to spend at least 6 months in the school of vituperation, a couple of semesters perfecting the technique contiguous gratuitous insults will do you no end of good; honing up your skills in wilfully missing the point of another's argument, brushing up your knowledge of ad hominem argument so that when lost for facts, you have the ability to insult the other contributor - In fact "My dad is bigger than your dad" is a reasonable start..........................

#19 SirSaltire

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:23

Originally posted by Bloggsworth


Oh dear, another reasonable man; no room for you here mate. You will have to spend at least 6 months in the school of vituperation, a couple of semesters perfecting the technique contiguous gratuitous insults will do you no end of good; honing up your skills in wilfully missing the point of another's argument, brushing up your knowledge of ad hominem argument so that when lost for facts, you have the ability to insult the other contributor - In fact "My dad is bigger than your dad" is a reasonable start..........................

:lol: :up:

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#20 Craven Morehead

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:35

I think that the anonimity that foruming provides has a lot to do with it, human nature being what it is. People are a lot more likely to engage in reasonable conversation when face to face. Sad to say, there was a time when Atlas was a place where genuine f1 discussion took place btwn fans who loved the sport and enjoyed having a place to discuss it with other knowledgeable folks. That seems to have degenerated into what we have now: fanboys who think their driver farts roses and people who bait them for sport. I'm afraid we're all guilty to a degree as we assimilate to the environment.

#21 pingu666

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:36

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
Isn't there a saying like "luck is when preparation meets opportunity" or something?

I think, generally speaking, you make your own luck. Thing is all the obvious, slightly less obvious, etc preparations are all made by all the teams and drivers. We're several orders of magnitude down the scale in terms of effort:results but everyone is still scrambling for that minute difference.


sutil in monaco ?;)

#22 SeanValen

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:44

Once Schumacher M retired, the main protagonist who was the man to beat and others wanted to win against was gone, now you have a few names fighting for the right to be the man to beat, but in actual fact, none have stampt enough authority, yence they all look weaker because you expect the same efficiency and success/consistency of Schumi.

Massa has improved, but don't mean he's the best
Kimi has won alot of the races, but also has shown more quali subpar performances on Bridgestone tyres then he ever did on michelin, he got the title, but it was a struggle with 2 varying parts of performance per season. His brillance has been tamped by strange gp weekends where u expect more from him, despite already being the champion, maybe everyone was spoiled by Schumacher's standards.

Hamiton had a strong start to his career, so strong that made Alonso sweat, but he did it in a cheating team/car year, and somehow has a knack of making the most bizarre mistakes in the most important of times. Sometimes you wonder whether the real enemy is himself and the pressure he puts on himself by what he says and expects, but come the actual gp, he can be more vunerable then he lets on. But he could improve to rule better in the future.

Alonso is perhaps a decent all rounder, but when things go wrong within the team, he is a different person, and can look very average at odd times, personally I think Kimi and Alonso liked the michelins a little more then Bridgestones, they just drive slightly differently, still the same speed and all, but you get the sense their working harder for the same attack on track. It would be really interesting if we ever see the Alonso again of the Renault/michelin/opt suspension package, because I think he especially fast in that car, he's still fast, but maybe with the bridgstones he hasn't found what he needs yet, and I'm not just talking about this year's Renault, last year's Mclaren was a fast car, it had ferrari in it, but still Alonso seemed to struggle at times, he was missing some time and at other times he was on it.

#23 Lazarus II

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 22:51

All drivers are rubbish. A monkey could drive todays cars; they're lighter, they are not primadonas, they require NO pay....just don't get too close to their cage.

Let a computer drive for all I care. For me F1 is about the car, not the driver.

#24 jonpollak

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 23:07

Those who can, DO
Those who can't, post on internet bulletin boards

Jp

#25 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 23:43

I do not think any driver in F1 is rubbish, and very few in GP2 and F3 for that matter. I do believe that there are some driver who are a little better than the majority, and they are the ones battling for the champonships.

Some un-found gems may (and most likely is) for the time being be hidden in a lower ranked team, but if they are any good Darwinism will take over, and they will be seated in front running cars.

Some were viewed as talents worthy of a major team F1 seat from the moment they entered F1, and are found to be less than what expectations were.

The art / act of driving a F1 car competively is something that many aspire to, and few get to experience.

I do not feel the need to follow the front running driver. I am fully aware that backing Michael Schumacher for 15 years make that seem strange, at most times I have one driver as 'mine', and it so happened that I saw something in Schumacher at Spa in the Jordan, which I liked instantly, not that I was the only one, there were after all a bidding war for his services immediately. But apart from my one driver, there are a number which I follow with a positive attitude.

No what which driver you root for / follow, it is all fine.

My driver now that Michael Schumacher is gone is Nico Rosberg.

Favorites from times past are Surer, Reggazoni, Patrese, Alboreto, Ghinzani, Pier Luigi Martini, Badoer, Alex Caffi, de Angelis, De Cesaris, Giacomelli, Teo Fabi, Bellof, Laffite, Merzario, Reuteman, Nannini (and many more).

And the all time favorite Keke Rosberg.

Some drivers I do not / did not like for a number of sensible and non-senscial reasons. Piquet, Fittipaldi, Mansell, Alonso, Derek Warwick, Frentzen, Albers.

But I would not stoop to dissing any of the drivers I disliked as being without talent, I think that Alonso is currently the best driver in the world, but there are simply part to him and his personality which rubs me the wrong way. Both Piquet and Fittipaldi was on their day the best drivers in the world, Mansell was a heroic mental case, Albers should have been given a 1 full suspension for his behaviour in Germany, and never been signed by any team interested in having success in F1.

:cool:

#26 George Cunningham

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 03:02

Originally posted by tormave
The average age of the people of write here seems to be about 13. Expecting a fact based debate over anything is simply futile.


I suspect that most of them have never been in a motor vehicle of any description and don't actually know anyone who has.

#27 Bloggsworth

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 08:08

Originally posted by jonpollak
Those who can, DO
Those who can't, post on internet bulletin boards

Jp


I could still DO if I weren't 63 and broke..........................

#28 Terry Walker

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 09:00

I think a lot of posters take their cue from the hysteria of the tabloid press. When the England cricket team actually win a game, they are suddenly promoted as the best in the world in a wave of red-top hysteria, and when they next lose, as they are sure to do, they are suddenly an evil bunch of sorry losers who should all be sacked instantly or better yet have their heads posted on pikes along the Thames.

Ditto motor racing. Lewis is the current tin god of the tabloids, but if you live by the tabloids you will surely die by them. It will take very little for ther rottweilers of the press to tear him to shreds.

And it flows through to the small sector of the public who post of forums.

I have a few old-fashioned rules (pre-dating Stonehenge, probably)

I don't slag off at other forum members. I don't heap shit on a GP driver (because he is obviously an infinitely better F1 driver than I am, no matter who is is)

And I seldom waste time reading troll and flame threads, because they're stupefyingly boring.

I am boring, too, probably.

#29 Juan Kerr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 10:56

Originally posted by pacificquay
The only driver who is any good is one who wins every single race of the season from pole, according to internet forumers.

Even then he can't be that good because he was only 3rd quickest in Friday Practice at the 2003 Bulgarian Grand Prix.




Reading through so many threads on this forum I see bile being poured on Hamilton, or Raikkonen, or Massa, or Kovalianen or Kubica or whoever.

Usually the fans of one driver belittle their main rival.


What I can't work out is this.

If all the other drivers are so bad, it can't mean much when your man beats them!

Surely fans of drivers should actually talk up the opposition, so it means more if you beat them?


If you're a Raikkonen fan and think Hamilton's rubbish, then it's not worth a whole lot if Kimi beats Lewis. And if Lewis beats Kimi, then that must make Kimi even worse!

Or vice versa.


We have entered a strange world where people on the internet think they know best, and dish out criticism for every minor thing. It seems the internet has taken away from the respect and admiration we once held drivers in.

Very depressing and illogical.


Now every person is sat in their own castle hiding thinking they are indestructable, they feel safe to let their insecurity influence them to dish out punishment or personal critisism without getting hurt themselves(similar to a man beating his wife). The most primitive of them are pre-programmed by their instincts to go far more than think their favourite drivers rival is rubbish they actually deep down think that everyone in the world but them is rubbish and they are the king of their castles.
Its a pointless thing to talk about though because its nothing to do with F1 and you explain it as much as you like to people but they are blind to their own weaknesses, they naturally give themselves the benefit of the doubt and go into denial about everything they've done wrong.
Flogging a dead horse I'm afraid.
Lewis Hamilton is absolutely brilliant, he is the next big thing and that conflicts with the interests of many therefore they will do their best to pick holes in him. The problem is they're treating him like an indestructable robot and laughing at him if he shows any human qualities, so I suggest they re-address what a great grand prix driver is(flesh and blood and only human) and also understand how idiotic they are treating these people like some sort of pantomine horse or characateur of someone out of a film.

#30 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 11:39

Originally posted by le chat noir
F1 at its core is not about competition between driver and driver, or car and car. its about the combination of car and driver against nature.


Nature? :) Have there been some Rabbit impacts I havnt been made aware of so far this weekend? :D