Recent developments at Donington Park
#1
Posted 04 July 2008 - 10:57
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#2
Posted 04 July 2008 - 11:04
Also, from my understanding the Wheatcrofts don't want the GP back, too eneconomical, so this is from the current lease-holders I'd say. I reckon watch this space and expect another announcement in two years time!!
#3
Posted 04 July 2008 - 11:08
#4
Posted 04 July 2008 - 11:42
"Donington's development plans will give us exactly that, a venue to put British motorsport back on the map."
I wasn't aware that British motorsport was no longer on the map. Sounds as though there is someone desperately keen to pour money, unnecessarily, down the toilet.
#5
Posted 04 July 2008 - 11:44
#6
Posted 04 July 2008 - 11:45
For current standards you would virtually need to start from scratch all over again. Is there physically enough room ? what about the proximity of East Midlands airport , already looking for expansion itself ?
Access roads, traffic control, vast new areas of grandstands, acres of run off areas , media facilities parking?? It took hours for just motorcyclists to get out after the MotoGP last month !
What about the tens of millions spent over 30 years getting Silverstone to the current standard ?
What about the tens of millions spent by the British taxpayer with the A43 and all the new public road layout , bypass and public access roads which are only ever needed for the Grand Prix weekend ? The damage to the employment and economics in the Towcester area.
Above all who would pay the scores ( maybe hundreds ) of millions of pounds needed to do this at Donington ?.Surely an investment of this size now in Britain privately with no state aid could never be recovered ?
Also it was recently reported that the F1 organisers would be requiring a licence fee from Silverstone of £11M per year plus annual inflation increments just to be allowed to run the one race from 2009 onwards ?.
With a paying public attendance of circa 50-60,000 on race day ( which bears no relation to the propaganda 'sell - out ' figures that ITV put out, also of course many thousands of people get in free for " commercial reasons " ), how can any of this make any economic sense at all ? Broadcasters are also charged in the region of £1M each to transmit the pictures plus all their own costs.
Very hard to believe this idea is a runner especially in this new economic era where everything is rapidly going in to reverse. Has it really been thought through ? Unless of course there is a new policy of running Grand Prix at very basic venues and just making the best of the present facilities ?
Because technology has been allowed to take over the cars to such a large degree the spectacle has so diminished, the appetite ( together with the escallating cost ) for this in Britain has been on a steady slide over the past decade. Surely not a commercial proposition ?
#7
Posted 04 July 2008 - 12:08
Originally posted by Rockford
Great. F1 is about to urinate all over Donington for 2010.
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/7489662.stm
Only one section of the current track seems perfect for F1...from Coppice back to the start line. three short straights, one slow chicane and two bottom gear hairpins all in less than a mile.Perfect. Shame about the rest of it really but no doubt Herr Tilke will have a ready made plan on his lap top.
You can hear James Allen saying ....
"And away from the line into Redgate, down through the 2nd gear Craner chicane to the newly realigned first gear New-Old Hairpin then up under the bridge and the tight Schwantz esses before sweeping right into Macleans , the fastest corner on the whole track and on up to the FANTASTIC new 2nd gear Coppice complex...."
Oh, joy !
#8
Posted 04 July 2008 - 12:15
Hopefully at least we wont have to hear James Allen saying it !Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Only one section of the current track seems perfect for F1...from Coppice back to the start line. three short straights, one slow chicane and two bottom gear hairpins all in less than a mile.Perfect. Shame about the rest of it really but no doubt Herr Tilke will have a ready made plan on his lap top.
You can hear James Allen saying ....
"And away from the line into Redgate, down through the 2nd gear Craner chicane to the newly realigned first gear New-Old Hairpin then up under the bridge and the tight Schwantz esses before sweeping right into Macleans , the fastest corner on the whole track and on up to the FANTASTIC new 2nd gear Coppice complex...."
Oh, joy !
Personally I think that Donington is ( at present ) a far better circuit to watch than Silverstone , however the thought of the changes required to give Bernie and friends somewhere to play probably means the end of that.
I dont believe it anyway, this is another " Grand Prix going to Brands " ploy.
#9
Posted 04 July 2008 - 12:16
No doubt the beautiful infield will be replaced by some ghastly plate-glass monstrosity, the runoffs will be widened so far that the closest you'll get to the track is East Midlands Airport and the Craners will be replaced by some poxy Tilke-inspired second/third gear 'technical' section.
Everything that made the place special will be ripped up and destroyed, no doubt.
It's too good to be a cookie-cutter 'facility'. So's Brands. Silverstone is ideal for the GP - it's big, empty, flat and can be endlessly redeveloped without adding to or taking away from its lack of charisma.
#10
Posted 04 July 2008 - 12:20
Or, of course, maybe he of the silver nylon Beatle wig, may angels caress his glans, will finally get round to holding his first "no spectators" race...
#11
Posted 04 July 2008 - 12:26
Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Despite what everyone in the motor sport industry thinks the reality is the UK, while it can be argued is the center of the industry, treats racing as a minority sport publically and what limited profile it does have is not positive.
It's an uncomfortable fact that Ross is absolutely right on this, and so I suspect is Gregor Marshall. Many of us will remember the way that Bernie and others were royally turned over the last time there was talk of taking the GP away from Silverstone, and much of what was said about Brands Hatch back then is rather similar to much that's being said about Donington now. I don't suppose Nicola Foulston has any involvement with Donington, but maybe she's spent all the millions she made last time and is having another go.
#12
Posted 04 July 2008 - 13:05
Here's what (I assume) Joe Saward had to say when circuit was sold last year:
FEBRUARY 5, 2007
The men behind Donington's new plans
Lee Gill and Simon Gillett are the new owners of Donington Park. They come from very diverse backgrounds with Gill having spent much of his career at Marks & Spencer PLC, where he held several executive positions, working mainly in the supply chain. He then moved on to join i2 Technologies Inc, a NASDAQ-quoted supply chain company for which he worked as head of retail in Europe, Middle East, Africa and Russia. He believes that attention to detail is the secret of success and sees much potential to improve customer focus in the leisure industry.
Simon Gillett was a regular visitor to racing in his childhood as his father was in charge of sponsorship for Elf in the UK. He started his professional career as weapons engineer with the Royal Navy but then moved into the software world, before creating his own retail consultancy business. He embarked on the plan to buy Donington in 2005.
The funding for the project is coming from the two men, from a property investment company and from the Anglo Irish Bank.
The phrase "property investment company" can of course cover a multitude of sins ....
http://www.grandprix...ns/ns18019.html
#13
Posted 04 July 2008 - 13:24
Originally posted by petefenelon
Silverstone is ideal for the GP - it's big, empty, flat and can be endlessly redeveloped without adding to or taking away from its lack of charisma.
That all went in the 80s when the wide open infield was fenced and progessively 'developed' by means of inserting miles of chain link fence and armco, when the car parks were fenced off from the spectator areas (more chain link...) the F1 paddock fenced off (Christ! Makes you wonder who got rich supplying them with all that chain link???) and then the job was completed early 90s with the removal of much of the really fast stuff (Stowe, Club, Abbey) and then the admittedly decript, but actually quite historic and chaming, ex RAF buildings and other airfield features were swept away.
I agree Donington and Brands have much better settings and topography but when Silverstone was a high speed blind round what still looked like an old bomber base and Peter Scott Russell was in the commentary box it was infinately better than any modern Tilkedrome.
#14
Posted 04 July 2008 - 13:32
The Club will miss the revenue - but at last the aggro has gone (for others to 'enjoy').
Unless this is not the end of the story...
DCN
PS - My heart bleeds for what Donington will have to become, and for what will be obliterated there....never to generate a profit...for its promoters.
#15
Posted 04 July 2008 - 13:33
Originally posted by kayemod
It's an uncomfortable fact that Ross is absolutely right on this, and so I suspect is Gregor Marshall. Many of us will remember the way that Bernie and others were royally turned over the last time there was talk of taking the GP away from Silverstone, and much of what was said about Brands Hatch back then is rather similar to much that's being said about Donington now. I don't suppose Nicola Foulston has any involvement with Donington, but maybe she's spent all the millions she made last time and is having another go.
Haha, I'm never right but I can say that the video Nicola F produced for all the BRDC memebers is compelling viewing and after seeing it and speaking to her I know a lot of BRDC members agreed with her proposals (just a shame about all the proxy votes!!). I still can't see this happening and I think that I'm allowed to say that in my last conversation with Kevin Wheatcroft he didn't want a GP but I suppose if the lease-holders have got their finances in place then why not but I still don't see it happening.
Edited to say I've just seen DCN's post and whilst I'm not a member and never likely to be I can see all the other members agreeing and dancing in the meadows!!
#16
Posted 04 July 2008 - 13:48
" "I am sorry we could not have helped Silverstone to raise the money to carry out the circuit improvements and run Formula One."
Ecclestone then had a dig at the British Government for not dipping their hands into their pocket and helping out Silverstone.
"I believe the government should have supported them, which would have cost probably less than 0.002 per cent of the government's commitment for the Olympic Games," he said. "
Roger Lund
#17
Posted 04 July 2008 - 13:50
#18
Posted 04 July 2008 - 14:01
#19
Posted 04 July 2008 - 14:50
Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Personally I don't think F1 or the Olympics should be getting government handouts.
Well said.
If its worth doing it can usual stand on its own feet unaided by the people currently browsing their latest 'John Lewis List' in search of expensive wallpaper....
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#20
Posted 04 July 2008 - 15:04
#21
Posted 04 July 2008 - 15:18
Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
'John Lewis List'.....
Any relation ?
#22
Posted 04 July 2008 - 15:34
Originally posted by bradbury west
Ecclestone then had a dig at the British Government for not dipping their hands into their pocket and helping out Silverstone.
Helping out Silverstone? Helping out Bernie is more like it. I'm guessing that there would have been no additional profit to Silverstsone as a result of governmental subsidies, only higher fees and royalties to Bernie. The idea that facilities at Silverstone aren't up to snuff seems like one of those lies that keeps getting repeated until the general public perceives it as the truth. If facilities and not monet was what really mattered, wouldn't Brazil be the first to go?
#23
Posted 04 July 2008 - 15:42
I'm not saying it's the best on the calendar but surely it isn't the worst and I really don't see what needs doing other than infrastructure-wise and that seems to be getting better anyway.
As has been pointed out Silverstone has been continuously develoed whereas Donington has 25 years to catch up (maybe it wasn't even F1 standard in '93??) and I really cannot see it happening as much as I love the place.
#24
Posted 04 July 2008 - 15:48
This is just another problem for Silverstone with the MSA/FIA not agreeing to the continued use of Abbey and Vale Historic corners due to a computor projected template showing them to be unsafe. 95% of Historic Drivers disagree with this finding and they have made the Silverstone Circuit a less attractive place to race .If this computor finding is used as a rule what happens to Goodwood,Cadwell,Outon etc.I may not be Goodwood's biggest fan but I totally disagree with these jobsworths who may want to impose restrictions on people who do want to race there should this computor inspired template be imposed as a general standard
#25
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:05
#26
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:16
I can imagine Tilke's call back to Bernie now - "the Grand Prix loop presents a superb crappy slow section where you can film the sponsor logos in slo-mo er.... technical challenge, it has a chicane AND a slow hairpin! Fantastic exposure for the sponsors as the cars are running slowly! The rest.... no Bernie, I'm afraid it'll all have to go. I mean, there's not enough point and squirt on the circuit, and those Craner curves? They're so good I'd love to race on them in my old V8-star, nearly as good as the old 'Ring... but for single seaters? No, they'll have to go. We can't have anything that separates the men from the boys on an F1 circuit. And we must replace the bits of the infield from which people buying cheap general admission tickets can see the whole circuit - we need a steel and plate glass Media Centre and somewhere to entertain all the corporate trouser limpets. The whole place is too good, Bernie. We must EQUALISE! HOMOGENISE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!"
sorry, I've gone all paranoid and it's the last episode in the series of Doctor Who tomorrow.
#27
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:25
#28
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:27
Originally posted by D-Type
Is the real issue perhaps that 'he of the silver nylon Beatle wig' (great description) has never been invited to be a member of the BRDC?
Fifty-odd years is a long time for a sane man to bear a grudge...
#29
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:30
Rather than ruin Donnington and if the GP must leave Silverstone why not build a round the houses circuit on the Olympic site in London?
#30
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:32
Back in the halcyon days of 250GP racing in the British Championships we would often be stationary for ages blocking the road from M1 to Derby whilst queing to get our vehicles in to set up for Fridays practice .
No doubt Ecclestone would want the Government to pay for the road mods. as they did for Silverstone.
For a bloke who made a couple of bob knocking out ex Government Corgi Motorcyles not many decades ago ,he is turning into our own Al-Fayad without the high street shop though
Donington is great for F/Renault , F/3 , FF and other classes though so maybe we will have to wait for the current owners to go under and then look forward to Silverstone again ,maybe ,some day , especially if the total Eastern GP audiences stay as they are ( Australia being the possible exception) or the sea level rises as predicted or maybe the Eastern oil runs out .
My 10 penn'orth !
#31
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:33
Originally posted by Tony Lethbridge
Rather than ruin Donnington and if the GP must leave Silverstone why not build a round the houses circuit on the Olympic site in London? [/B]
Which would in one swell foop give both He Whose Wad Of Money Is Significantly Taller Than Himself the London GP he professes to want, and Herr Tilke the chance to surpass himself by building a circuit that rivals Phoenix or Miramas for sheer unbounded tedium. Genius!
#32
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:37
I ,like it seems the majority ,am baffled by the Abbey/Vale decision so should I say made by unreasonable people.The reasoning is what might happen with the lawyers if there is a problem.If thats the case you might as well scrap the Historic Racing past time then there will be no problems
#33
Posted 04 July 2008 - 16:55
Originally posted by D-Type
Is the real issue perhaps that 'he of the silver nylon Beatle wig' (great description) has never been invited to be a member of the BRDC?
BCE is a BRDC member and has been since 1989 (he was even awarded a BRDC Gold medal in 1996, the first person to get one). He might only be an honorary member but it does mean he still sees and hears all member's chat and has access to all the member's addresses/details I believe.
Maybe it's the fact he didnt qualify as a Life or Full member (both very different) that's his problem.
#34
Posted 04 July 2008 - 17:10
As I understand it The Wheatcrofts still own the circuit but a lease on the place has been sold to these new operators and this project is in their court, Gillet & Gill say they will spend £100M and they say they have now signed a 10 year deal with F1 !!!.
As a rule people who have started with not a lot and made a huge amount of money don't usually throw it all away again just like that. They would be wise to at least reconsider.
Begs the question what sort of racing will now go to Silverstone ?
Is this new 'Formula 2 ' idea a genuine runner could that be developed with road car manufacturer participation as a European or world championship ?
What about an international 24 hr race for GT3 type sports cars ? ( there was a club 24 hr race last year )
What about reinstating some of the big races held at Silverstone over the last 40 years, more big national meetings and more very popular historic festivals ?
This might not be all bad news something very good could come out of it and the place may get returned to the true motor racing enthusiasts ?
Its an extraordinary turn of events this afternoon by any standards.....who would bet on the GP starting at Donington in just 24 months from today ? Not me .
Local council planning consent alone will take longer than that and there would be road chaos, any changes to the public road layouts will take at least 10 years to achieve....if ever !
#35
Posted 04 July 2008 - 17:11
#36
Posted 04 July 2008 - 17:21
He did say Silverstone just could not meet the required fee for 2009 onwards.
There was a certain amount of relief in his voice.
#37
Posted 04 July 2008 - 17:26
Originally posted by RTH
Begs the question what sort of racing will now go to Silverstone ?
MotoGP?
#38
Posted 04 July 2008 - 17:27
Originally posted by RTH
Damon has just been on the radio , the BRDC have received no formal notification.
He did say Silverstone just could not meet the required fee for 2009 and onwards.
There was a certain amount of relief in his voice.
So no race next year?
#39
Posted 04 July 2008 - 17:27
Originally posted by RTH
Damon has just been on the radio , the BRDC have received no formal notification.
He did say Silverstone just could not meet the required fee for 2009 and onwards.
There was a certain amount of relief in his voice.
I've just heard it, and there was a certain amount of relief in my hearing. I'm not sure what's going on here, but I think I'd bet a reasonable sum that the 2010 British GP will be at Silverstone.
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#40
Posted 04 July 2008 - 18:06
Originally posted by Doug Nye
Unless this is not the end of the story...
#41
Posted 04 July 2008 - 18:19
Jack
#42
Posted 04 July 2008 - 18:26
#43
Posted 04 July 2008 - 19:23
Originally posted by RTH
Its an extraordinary turn of events this afternoon by any standards.....who would bet on the GP starting at Donington in just 24 months from today ? Not me. Local council planning consent alone will take longer than that and there would be road chaos, any changes to the public road layouts will take at least 10 years to achieve....if ever !
Wasn't there a problem with planning permission when Donington re-opened? I recall that the old pre-war Melbourne loop is in a different county from the rest of the site, hence its exclusion from the present track. If so, then one is looking at getting agreement from at least 2 County Councils, several Parish councils, Highways Agency, CAA, Dept of Transport, Dept of the Environment etc etc.
Having been involved of late in a local planning application involving just a single field, I cannot see this new Donington project getting through the planning system in anything like the stated timescale even if the finance is available.
#44
Posted 04 July 2008 - 19:42
#45
Posted 04 July 2008 - 19:42
http://www.grandprix...ns/ns20554.html
Smoke and mirrors all around. You just don't know who or what to believe. My own bet is a ploy to slide out of the British Grand Prix altogether.
#46
Posted 04 July 2008 - 19:50
Originally posted by Ian Stewart
My own bet is a ploy to slide out of the British Grand Prix altogether.
Yes, I would wager that as well and I would rather have no British GP than have Donington massacred.
#47
Posted 04 July 2008 - 20:51
Actually, Jonathan Palmer has the best place for a new GP track...........he owns the old RAE airfield at Bedford where he has a driving experience circuit. Just get rid of the thousands of new cars parked on the runways, and it's practically a Tilkedrome already...........
http://maps.google.c...086174&t=h&z=14
Flat, boring, artificial, nowhere near anything...........it could be another Mangy-Curse.
Paul M
#48
Posted 04 July 2008 - 20:59
It was all a bit "Okay...turn! Was that an apex?...blimey"
#49
Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:38
I think I'd bet a reasonable sum that the 2010 British GP will be at Silverstone
Or nowhere at all.
#50
Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:44