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#51 Allan Lupton

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:50

Originally posted by sterling49
Wildcard, maybe Lydden Hill :cat:

Nah, Llandow! :cat:

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#52 sterling49

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 21:59

Originally posted by Allan Lupton

Nah, Llandow! :cat:


Good Call !! By the time they anesthetise the circuit of choice it will be the equivalent of a Tilkdrome, they will ruin any of the remaining tracks that we have. :(

#53 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 22:10

Originally posted by Ian Stewart
Re Donington planning permission:

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns20554.html

Smoke and mirrors all around. You just don't know who or what to believe. My own bet is a ploy to slide out of the British Grand Prix altogether.


Who needs GB when you have the near east, the middle east and the far east? Or so believes BE, I'm certain.


Jack

#54 Gary Davies

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 01:10

Originally posted by bradbury west
Quotes attributed to BCE, taken from the Daily Telegraph website
" "I am sorry we could not have helped Silverstone to raise the money to carry out the circuit improvements and run Formula One."
Ecclestone then had a dig at the British Government for not dipping their hands into their pocket and helping out Silverstone.
"I believe the government should have supported them, which would have cost probably less than 0.002 per cent of the government's commitment for the Olympic Games
," he said. "
Roger Lund


So I suppose the wee fella's given up on any idea of a gong from HRH then..... :smoking:

#55 RTH

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 05:53

Money alone does not make a good motor racing venue. Look at Rockingham something like £60M was spent on that, now about 10 years ago.
In my opinion that is something of a white Elephant, the concept , the layout and the ugly surroundings the access, mean it has never found a role in UK motor racing despite the enormous pits and modern grandstands.

Throwing money at projects without a vision of the outcome, without a pleasing visual experience and without style or unique personality or making it welcoming and user friendly, spectators will not want to attend.

A seat on Sunday at Silverstone in a grandstand on the start finish straight is something like £300 each.
Now if those prices cannot pay the race fee to FOM.... then how much will it cost to go in to Donington for a GP after they have spent a further £100M and they have the annual race fee to pay as well ?

#56 john aston

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 06:57

Conclusive evidence that absolute power corrupts absolutely.How did my sport ever allow itself to be stolen by a stunted megalomaniac? And will the short one refund HM government the shedloads of cash it spent on improving the A43- presumably with Silverstone in mind.And will he repay BRDC the gazillions they have spent on tarting Silverstone up to satisfy his ludicrous demands?

#57 jph

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 09:09

My bet is no British GP after 2009. Ecclestone was never going to do a deal with Silverstone, so:

1. He recognises that there will be an outcry from the constructors if the race is pulled from the calendar. Doesn't give a stuff about the British spectators, but he can't ignore the constructors.

2. There is also this thing lurking about the protected status of the Monaco, French, German, Italian and British GPs. Might or might not be a factor.

3. Donington put forward a proposal, presumably with some up-front cash, so he announces the move to Donington. Despite the fact that Silverstone is, say 75% of the way to meeting his criteria and Donington is, in practical terms, little more than the site on which the new facility will now have to be built; not to mention access arrangements etc etc.

4. Donington can't be upgraded (more correctly, transformed into a Tilke-drome) in time.

5. Ecclestone pleads force majeure (having banked the up-front fee) and the race is cancelled. Face saved, nothing the constructors or anyone else can do.

What's the hope that Silverstone can now be returned to something a bit more enthusiast-friendly: get rid of the wiggly bit at the end of the lap, realign Club, rip up some concrete and replace it with grass, remove some of the chain-link. Probably non-existent, so we might end up by having lost two decent venues to the Great God Eff One.

#58 Peter Morley

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 09:29

Originally posted by RTH
Money alone does not make a good motor racing venue. Look at Rockingham something like £60M was spent on that, now about 10 years ago.


Very true, there seems to be a myth in the UK that the more money you spend on something the better it is (how else do you justify Wembley costing multiples of any other similar stadium and all the other dome like follies) which is blatantly untrue (in F1 terms think Toyota!).

For some odd reason (not being a tennis fan) I caught a programme showing the base of an East European tennis association who's budget was one million a year, the British equivalent's budget was forty times as much and one of these had 6 player's in the world top ten and it wasn't the one with the money!

Given the Donington people have worked on this deal for some time, they might have had time to sort out planning permissions etc. and presumably having a builder for a landlord might help with the contruction costs!

The Donington people aren't stupid and won't see themselves as competing with 3rd world countries advertising budgets, they have a plan they believe is viable (and if their backer is Irish then the cost has dropped 20% this year already) and they presumably have the finance in place (which isn't a huge amount of money these days - you could just about run Force India for a year or so on it).

And it will put a stop to all the PR rubbish about Silverstone holding the first GP (there is even a clue in those French words Grand Prix!), but it will confuse some who 'find out' that Donington held GPs 10 years before Silverstone existed - and those who forget that British circuits other than Silverstone have held GPs over the last 60 years.

Given the last decent GP ever was at Donington I hope it works out and that we don't have to watch many more processions from the British Magny Cours, as long as they don't destroy the circuit layout - fortunately even Mr Tilke would be hard put to eliminate all the hills at Donington!

#59 Gary C

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 11:54

This is all very, very depressing.

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#60 MPea3

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 12:05

Originally posted by john aston
And will the short one refund HM government the shedloads of cash it spent on improving the A43- presumably with Silverstone in mind.And will he repay BRDC the gazillions they have spent on tarting Silverstone up to satisfy his ludicrous demands?


Where would we be without rhetorical questions?

The answer is of course no.

#61 mfd

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 13:26

Originally posted by Vanwall


So I suppose the wee fella's given up on any idea of a gong from HRH then..... :smoking:

Apparently he declined a CBE in 1996.

On another point (it seemed to me) that Damon Hill was saying, it is a shame FOM takes all the money out for the benefit of a few, but none of it is fed back in to be re-invested for the greater good.

#62 fw07c

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 14:21

Great news Donington is the best place for British Grand Prix. The last race in 1993 was one of the best I have ever seen.

#63 Spitfire

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:29

While I'm not familiar with Mr. Williams' expertise, he sure seems to make a case for a chilling scenario.

http://www.guardian....ne.motorsports3

#64 jph

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:54

Originally posted by fw07c
Great news Donington is the best place for British Grand Prix. The last race in 1993 was one of the best I have ever seen.


Rest assured that if it were ever to happen, which I seriously doubt, the track (indeed, the whole venue) to be used from 2010 or whenever would be an emasculation of the current version. The more I think about this, the less I can see it happening: road access will be a nightmare, I can't see a viable park-and-ride scheme being possible and how the devil will the glitterati be able to get there in their helicopters despite there being a ruddy great airport next door - the number of scheduled flight movements at which will seriously limit the possibilities for extra air traffic? The sickening thing about it all is that the decision is based solely on who will pay Ecclestone the most: he will get his money, whether the race happens or not.

To my mind, Damon Hill hit the nail on the head with his comment about money going out of the sport. I think that Richard Williams (surely one of the most intelligent of today's newspaper journalists writing on the subject of Grand Prix racing) is absolutely right in the article linked from Spitfire's post.

#65 fines

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:44

Originally posted by Spitfire
While I'm not familiar with Mr. Williams' expertise, he sure seems to make a case for a chilling scenario.

http://www.guardian....ne.motorsports3

(...) and there are those who think it might be good riddance to a sport that was once a matter of courage and honour but now stands revealed as a playground for men who, fuelled by greed and deceit, take the rest of us for fools as they make themselves rich beyond dreams.

Welcome to the club! I never enjoyed motor racing more than since I stopped following it seven or eight years ago!;) :smoking:

#66 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:09

As a club racer, I hope Silverstone will get their priorities right and think of the overall good of the sport. Clubs have been charged increasingly high fees for the track hire (somehow even the BRDC have been unable to afford their own fees!) in recent years. Many smaller clubs have stopped racing there. There is the underlying feeling that we were in effect subsidising the GP, or at least the developments.

The present facilities are more than adequate for all the events other than the GP. Why invest in something that is only to be used for three days a year? Even the MSA appeared to lose money on their "organising" of the GP. How Donington think they can get a good return on a huge private investment I cannot understand.

In other sports much of the profits from the major events (eg Wimbledon) are invested in the sport overall. That's why we have all sorts of county coaching, new facilities etc for tennis. In our sport Bernie and pals take the lot.

Perhaps he could do us a favour and retire (or die!)

#67 Gary C

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:37

I'll have to agree with the above poster. I've been racing with the HSCC for 5 seasons now. The prices we are charged by the BRDC to hire the circuit (and the accompanying entrance fees for the amount of on-track time) is absolutely outrageous. To compare, in the US, for a comparable clubbie, they get virtually DOUBLE the amount of track time for the same amount of money. Perhaps it IS time to emigrate??

#68 stevewf1

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 23:23

Originally posted by Spitfire
While I'm not familiar with Mr. Williams' expertise, he sure seems to make a case for a chilling scenario.

http://www.guardian....ne.motorsports3


Has anyone seen this Tilke design which B.E. presented?

#69 Chris Bloom

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 06:46

The inevitable desecration seems such a shame considering the lack of entertainment a modern F1 race provides.

#70 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 06:59

Richard's prediction matches ours. Right now Donington's ambitious promoters can enjoy some time in the sunlight. If their circuit is ready in time for a 2010 race FOM can run a GP (or maybe two) there before the Donington outfit collapses under the crushing financial drain. If - as seems more likely - the circuit cannot be readied in time to FOM's requirements then a punitive penalty payment will indeed become due, Mr E can trouser it and tell the world "They let me down" - as a better paying Pongoland GP can take the British event's calendar slot. This country loses its national GP by default - unless Silverstone's owners have bitten the bullet and updated its facilities 'blind' - or unless Mr E relents (more chance of hell feezing over)...or vacates the scene?

Of course, one could take the relaxed wider public view...simply yawn and say "But who really cares?".

We seem to be headed for such tough times I really can't see a £100-million speculative investment in anything so volatile as Formula 1 making good sense. The BRDC might be a lot of things, but overall it is NOT stupid.

DCN

#71 Buford

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:18

I hate Ecclestone almost as much as I hate Tony George.

#72 FrankB

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:23

Originally posted by Doug Nye
If - as seems more likely - the circuit cannot be readied in time to FOM's requirements then a punitive penalty payment will indeed become due, Mr E can trouser it and tell the world "They let me down"


Good point - Bernie paints himself as the Good Guy doing his best to save the British GP, and the BRDC as the Bad Guys who prefer to give up the GP rather than invest some money. If it doesn't go ahead he can point the finger of blame at all and sundry (the UK planning system, the UK government, timid investors, poor contractors etc) and walk away with a chunk of cash and an empty slot in the calendar.

Every time I go to Silverstone there seems to be yet another fenced off enclosure, more internal roads, additional "facility" buildings. Presumably most, if not all, are provided for the GP rather than the other 51 weeks of the year. Does anyone know where the further improvements / enhancements are still required by BE & Co?

#73 bschenker

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:45

Certainly luxurious VIP localities!

#74 Barry Boor

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 08:19

Doug said:

the circuit cannot be readied in time to FOM's requirements then a punitive penalty payment will indeed become due, Mr E can trouser it and tell the world "They let me down" - as a better paying Pongoland GP can take the British event's calendar slot.


That is EXACTLY the way I see this panning out.

#75 Gary Davies

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 08:49

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Doug said:

That is EXACTLY the way I see this panning out.


Oh, me too. Very much so. Wasn't it Joseph Goebbels who said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it...."?

#76 RTH

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 08:51

Originally posted by Doug Nye


We seem to be headed for such tough times I really can't see a £100-million speculative investment in anything so volatile as Formula 1 making good sense. The BRDC might be a lot of things, but overall it is NOT stupid.

DCN


I think that is absolutely right, the western economies show every sign of entering in to free fall with a set of circumstances which together are unknown territory and the likelihood is that it will have a very hard landing indeed for large sections of society.

Now the tobacco money has all but gone many of the 10 teams have a bank or a major financial organisation as a core sponsor many of those will not be willing or able to renew advertising contracts.

The excesses have reached such extreme proportions with teams now employing 1000 people to put 2 cars on the grid, rather like some giant supertanker this whole scene is no longer agile enough to rapidly change course or adapt and more team failure or withdrawal looks assured .

We could see a meltdown and the senior world single seater motor racing series would have to be restructured from the ground up in a drastically simpler and cheaper form for all those competing and watching.

In the whole scheme of things this development might not be such bad news and something better might emerge from the rubble.

#77 lustigson

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 09:27

About the British Grand Prix being dropped altogether: doesn't the the FIA have a say in keeping the old Grandes Épeuvres -- i.e. the French, British, Italian, Spanish, and Belgian GPs -- on the calendar at all times?

#78 sterling49

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 09:39

Originally posted by lustigson
About the British Grand Prix being dropped altogether: doesn't the the FIA have a say in keeping the old Grandes Épeuvres -- i.e. the French, British, Italian, Spanish, and Belgian GPs -- on the calendar at all times?


errr, remind me, who is "Head Honcho" at the FIA ? :rolleyes:

#79 Allan Lupton

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 09:48

Originally posted by sterling49


errr, remind me, who is "Head Honcho" at the FIA ? :rolleyes:


A spankingly good point, IMO. :lol:

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#80 FrankB

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 09:50

Originally posted by lustigson
About the British Grand Prix being dropped altogether: doesn't the the FIA have a say in keeping the old Grandes Épeuvres -- i.e. the French, British, Italian, Spanish, and Belgian GPs -- on the calendar at all times?


I don't think we can rely on the FIA doing much to keep "the old Grandes Épeuvres" in the annual calendar. Of the five examples you give, Spain and Belgium already have breaks in their sequence of GPs since the early fifties, so why should they intervene now to protect the British GP? (France also has a break, but that was in the aftermath of Le Mans in 1955).

#81 sterling49

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:17

Originally posted by Allan Lupton


A spankingly good point, IMO. :lol:


:rotfl: ......."don't mention it again....I mentioned it a couple of times, but I think I got away with it !" :lol:

#82 ianselva

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:29

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Richard's prediction matches ours. Right now Donington's ambitious promoters can enjoy some time in the sunlight. If their circuit is ready in time for a 2010 race FOM can run a GP (or maybe two) there before the Donington outfit collapses under the crushing financial drain. If - as seems more likely - the circuit cannot be readied in time to FOM's requirements then a punitive penalty payment will indeed become due, Mr E can trouser it and tell the world "They let me down" - as a better paying Pongoland GP can take the British event's calendar slot. This country loses its national GP by default - unless Silverstone's owners have bitten the bullet and updated its facilities 'blind' - or unless Mr E relents (more chance of hell feezing over)...or vacates the scene?

Of course, one could take the relaxed wider public view...simply yawn and say "But who really cares?".

We seem to be headed for such tough times I really can't see a £100-million speculative investment in anything so volatile as Formula 1 making good sense. The BRDC might be a lot of things, but overall it is NOT stupid.

DCN

Although I hate the fact the The Small One and 'Spanky' seem to bent on over-ruling the majority of F1 enthusiasts , would it really matter that much if we lost the British GP ?
It no longer bears any resemblance to the sporting spectacle it used to be , The racing teams themselves rarely test at Silverstone due to the inconsistent weather and to them it doesn't really make any difference packing the trucks to go to Silverstone or going to almost any other European circuit.
If BRDC didn't constantly have to spend all this money to Bernie perhaps we could have more affordable racing festivals etc at Silverstone with better racing.

#83 mfd

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 11:10

Originally posted by Doug Nye
The BRDC might be a lot of things, but overall it is NOT stupid.DCN

I guess you'd have a good insight. Aren't you a member Doug?

#84 Beedeeai

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 11:21

One of the Donington owners just told ITV that they will be adding an infield track to the circuit. Isn't there a hill in the middle though? If so, how will they manage the infield addition? :confused:

#85 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 12:25

Originally posted by lustigson
About the British Grand Prix being dropped altogether: doesn't the the FIA have a say in keeping the old Grandes Épeuvres -- i.e. the French, British, Italian, Spanish, and Belgian GPs -- on the calendar at all times?

That was mentioned in RC - it looks like that's one of the provisions of the Concorde Agreement .... which is in abeyance ATM, because they're trying to agree a new one :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Beedeeai

One of the Donington owners just told ITV that they will be adding an infield track to the circuit. Isn't there a hill in the middle though? If so, how will they manage the infield addition?

Dig a tunnel through it and put an hotel on top? :drunk:

#86 David McKinney

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 13:25

Originally posted by Beedeeai
One of the Donington owners just told ITV that they will be adding an infield track to the circuit. Isn't there a hill in the middle though? If so, how will they manage the infield addition? :confused:

More interesting, I thought, was his comment that they couldn't change anything between Redgate and McLeans or they'd be lynched. And that the proposed infield loop would contain a 'Craner Curves type' section

#87 john winfield

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 15:02

This one's going to run and run - I think I'll try and forget about it for a while and see what happens. As mentioned by Spitfire and jph, Richard Williams' piece in Saturday's Guardian is excellent.
Perhaps, as well as the new infield loop, they could use the Coppice tunnel and the old bridge spans at Starkeys - precise driving essential. And will they recreate Donington's 'drive through the farmyard' feel of the early 30's? That reminds me, I have some old small Donington prints (no negatives I'm afraid) from 1936/7/8, taken by my wife's great uncle. I'll work out how to post them and find or start a thread.

While thinking about the possible relocation of the BGP, I was wondering about earlier times. As I grew up, the Brands/Silverstone alternate years sequence was underway and it seemed the most natural thing in the world. It came as quite a shock in the late 1980s when Silverstone secured a more exclusive deal. How did things work in the 1950s and 1960s? Were Silverstone, Aintree and later Brands at each other's throats to stage the race, or was it all agreed over a pint of Double Diamond and a Senior Service? And was it the RAC that made the final decision, or the international motor sport body?( CSI or whatever). And how far in advance did the circuit organisers and public know at which circuit the race would be held? A year or two? Sorry, questions, questions...but I'm sure some of you knowledgeable guys will know. Oh, and how did Aintree secure two races in a row in 1961 and 1962?
John

#88 frogeye59

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 15:31

Originally posted by Beedeeai
One of the Donington owners just told ITV that they will be adding an infield track to the circuit. Isn't there a hill in the middle though? If so, how will they manage the infield addition? :confused:


I thought the telling comments in the interview related to planning permission and finance, basically - We dont have planning permission but the council know what we're up to and the £100mil is to be generated by debenture sale !

I'm by no means an expert but a GP at Donington sounds even less likely than it did when announced on Friday.


David

#89 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 15:33

Originally posted by Spitfire
While I'm not familiar with Mr. Williams' expertise ....

Seeing as nobody else mentioned it ...

Author of the excellent "Last Road Race" (about Pescara 1957) and a very good biography of Enzo Ferrari. :)

#90 kayemod

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 15:38

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Seeing as nobody else mentioned it ...

Author of the excellent "Last Road Race" (about Pescara 1957) and a very good biography of Enzo Ferrari. :)



Also the author of what many consider to be the best book written about Ayrton Senna, possibly the only good one.

#91 alansart

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 15:40

Originally posted by john winfield
This one's going to run and run - I think I'll try and forget about it for a while and see what happens. As mentioned by Spitfire and jph, Richar
While thinking about the possible relocation of the BGP, I was wondering about earlier times. As I grew up, the Brands/Silverstone alternate years sequence was underway and it seemed the most natural thing in the world. It came as quite a shock in the late 1980s when Silverstone secured a more exclusive deal. How did things work in the 1950s and 1960s? Were Silverstone, Aintree and later Brands at each other's throats to stage the race, or was it all agreed over a pint of Double Diamond and a Senior Service? And was it the RAC that made the final decision, or the international motor sport body?( CSI or whatever). And how far in advance did the circuit organisers and public know at which circuit the race would be held? A year or two? Sorry, questions, questions...but I'm sure some of you knowledgeable guys will know.
John


I think it was the start of the Ecclestone era. Both circuits needed bringing up to date for F1 as far as he/them was concerned. The UK couldn't afford 2 circuits at that level and Silverstone won out with the best deal.

I don't think it's a coincidence that UK club racing has been in decline since that time and I also feel that the Donington deal ain't going to help it in the future.

Damon Hill has a point. How much do the moneymakers of F1, put back into grassroots motorsport?

#92 john winfield

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 15:58

Thanks Alan. Yes, I remember the reasoning behind the 1987 deal and perhaps, in retrospect, the Silverstone deal ensured that Brands stayed a beautiful circuit. It wasn't clear from my post but the era I was really asking about was, say, 1954 to 1966 and trying to get a feel for the decision making processes that took the BGP from Silverstone to Aintree and to Brands.
John

#93 Stephen W

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 16:19

IF Donington does eventually land the deal what is that going to do to the already exorbitant cost of hiring the venue for a day? It will certainly drive the club racing away from Donington in the same way Silverstone is successfully doing!

I think Bernie will be chuckling all the way to the bank!

:wave:

#94 Beedeeai

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 17:07

I thought the telling comments in the interview related to planning permission and finance, basically - We dont have planning permission but the council know what we're up to and the £100mil is to be generated by debenture sale !


I didn't catch either of these comments. This sounds like Brands Hatch all over again. Getting £100m on a debenture will be tough given that it's public knowledge that the British GP has a weak profit stream. It won't help that the owners aren't exactly household names in business/the motorsport industry. £100m is quite a lot in these days of crunched credit!

#95 RTH

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 17:20

Can anyone say precisely what is wrong with Silverstone right now as it stands, which will be vastly superior at Donington in 24 months time ?

I was at Silverstone mid week about a month ago and I am at a loss to know exactly what is supposed to be missing which is vital to the running of the British GP? It is an enormous site , vast works have been carried out every year for decades now.
The pits are more than spacious for the meagre entry of 20 cars There are vast areas of tarmac , paddock, roads, hard standing , motor home connections and facilities, car parking areas, office buildings of every possible kind, fixed wing and helicopter landing facilities and parking, the place is now so big you need motor transport to get around it.

I don't think it is anything to do with either the track, the safety or the facilities or the public road access which is now amongst the best road network in the country , vastly superior to the days when the event attracted double the present spectator attendance.

I think it is a very simply issue FOM have asked for a cash fee that is beyond the sum the circuit earns from the event and Silverstone's counter and final offer has been rejected, so they have heard that they have lost the race.

Mr Gillett one of the Donington operators said on ITV today that the next job on the list now was to go out and raise the money and appealed to anyone watching with £ 100M available to get in touch with him....And that they had not yet applied for any planning permissions because that would have shown their hand before the announcement and that would now be done in the next few weeks.

So as they say this story will run and run.

#96 hipperson

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 17:27

Brundle commemteed as an aside that it was not a done deal.

#97 Allan Lupton

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 17:47

Originally posted by hipperson
Brundle commented as an aside that it was not a done deal.

He is in a position to know (a BRDC Vice-President), but does he?

#98 kayemod

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 18:03

Originally posted by RTH


I think it is a very simply issue FOM have asked for a cash fee that is beyond the sum the circuit earns from the event and Silverstone's counter and final offer has been rejected, so they have heard that they have lost the race.


Have to agree with everything you said, but the bit above is a puzzle to me. Spanker Mosley keeps going on about the need to cut expenditure, teams with 1000 employees just to put two cars on a grid 16 times a year etc, when Bernie's antics in sucking ever greater sums out of race organisers and not putting much back, is clearly a large part of the problem. There's no way that a European F1 race can be run at a reasonable profit because of the amount that Bernie & friends grab for themselves, which is pretty much the situation these days. Like Damon says, the fat lady hasn't sung yet, and no-one in their right mind will get involved in a £100 million scheme that is guaranteed to lose them money. Bernie is an old man, even his wealth can't keep him functioning on all cylinders for many more years, and I can't believe he really thinks that F1's future lies in the middle and far East. It's only F1's continuing 'allure' from it's historic and largely European past, that makes Eastern dictatorships want to pour vast subsidies into races in the desert in front of a few thousand bussed-in spectators, and for it to remain attractive to places like China and other Johnny-come-latelys, F1 has to retain a sound, which has to mean profitable, European basis, at least for the foreseeable future. Which is going to be much longer than the time His Bernieness has left.

#99 frogeye59

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 18:35

Originally posted by Beedeeai


I didn't catch either of these comments. This sounds like Brands Hatch all over again. Getting £100m on a debenture will be tough given that it's public knowledge that the British GP has a weak profit stream. It won't help that the owners aren't exactly household names in business/the motorsport industry. £100m is quite a lot in these days of crunched credit!


From the ITV web site, Gillett talking to Louise Goodman -

But Donington's joint CEO Simon Gillett – while refusing to confirm exact details of the financial arrangements – outlined a scheme whereby the upgrade could be funded by a debenture scheme, or long-term bond, and insisted that there was no 'white knight' bankrolling the revamp.

"You're going to hear a lot more about this over the next couple of weeks," Gillett told ITV Sport's Louise Goodman.

"Unfortunately there's not a mystery fairy godfather with a £100 million cheque out there.

"I wish there was, and if there are any out there, please call!

"But we'll be announcing a fan-powered debenture scheme in the next couple of weeks."

He also hinted at how the layout would be changed to make the track more suitable for F1, and pledged not to alter the circuit's best-loved sections.

"We’ve got to make some changes to the track, but it’s fair to say that if I touch anything from Redgate to Macleans – ie the Craner Curves – I think I’ll be lynched," Gillett said.

"So everyone can rest assured that that’s not going to happen."

"There's going to be anew infield loop, adding about half a mile to the circuit to increase the lap time, and to give another Craner-style corner.

"And there will be a new Formula 1 pit and paddock, and upgrades to the infrastructure."

Gillett does not expect any problems with getting approval for the upgrades.

"We've benefited from a pretty good planning situation at Donington anyway, which is pretty supportive of motorsport activities," he said.

"We're going into the planning process now; we couldn't before we had the contract because obviously we would have showed our hand.

"But we've been working with the local authority, they're fully aware of what we're coming up with, and we're expecting a decision in the next couple of weeks."

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#100 sterling49

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 19:06

It has to be said, the track was suitable for F1 in the previous decade, so why not now? Alter the cars say I, make them the size they were previously, not the leviathans they are now :rolleyes: Make them beautiful again, get rid of all the GIZMOs, and once again, lets see who has the deftness of touch, the defining balance, the mechanical sympathy, where passing is once again achieved on track, and not in the pits......I must have watched (and listened on the way to mums) to a different race to the commentator, a great race it was not, a wet race granted and Lewis dominated, but a great race ? :yawn:

If the economy is is on the downturn, then these "Teams" (loose description) of 1,000 plus people, will have to get real and reflect the more "work smart" methods that the rest us mere mortals adhere to.

Rant over, no wonder I did not make the trek to Silverstone today, I mowed the lawn with my i-Pod listening to Genesis......much more therapeutic :cool:

thinks...............Lydden will be the only circuit I wish to visit at this rate........ :cat: