46 replies to this topic

[SirSaltire]

After reading the thread on the news that Donington has won the contract, I thought it would be interesting to have a poll. For me its crazy to move to Donington. Its not just the track infrastructure, can you imagine 100,000 people trying to get there?
There has been a small fortune spent on the roads around Silverstone already. I cant help feeling this is just a political move and the deal will be reversed back to Silverstone.

[kar]

Silverstone - if 100M is spent on it.
Donington if it isn't.

[peroa]

Silverstone!

Do we really need another Hungaroring?

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by peroa
Silverstone!

Do we really need another Hungaroring?

Good point. Donington is a bit small.

[Risil]

Originally posted by peroa
Silverstone!

Do we really need another Hungaroring?

You have seen Donington, haven't you? Unless you mean a questionable venue maintained for political reasons, in which case you're probably dead on.

[color]

who cares?
bring on more tracks like monaco, valencia or singapore... others are just boring.

[Fatgadget]

Why not alternate between the two venues?

[kar]

Originally posted by Fatgadget
Why not alternate between the two venues?

That would be good

[peroa]

Originally posted by Risil


You have seen Donington, haven't you? Unless you mean a questionable venue maintained for political reasons, in which case you're probably dead on.

What is the big difference?

Slow-ish corners, short straights, 2 hairpins, 1 chicane.

Don`t get me wrong, I really like the track, have driven zillions of laps in rfactor and GTR but in F1 terms it`s a MickyMouse circuit and we all know what that means - boooring.

Except if:

- it rains
- next years cars are substantially better regarding overtaking.

[Risil]

Originally posted by peroa


What is the big difference?

Slow-ish corners, short straights, 2 hairpins, 1 chicane.

Don`t get me wrong, I really like the track, have driven zillions of laps in rfactor and GTR but in F1 terms it`s a MickyMouse circuit and we all know what that means - boooring.

Except if:

- it rains
- next years cars are substantially better regarding overtaking.

Discounting the Melbourne loop, which is bizarre and ridiculous, you're left with a number of undulating sweepers and medium-speed corners. Certainly more interesting than the Hungaroring, which appears to consist entirely of 2nd and 3rd gear turns. IMO neither is anywhere near as bad as the stunningly unimaginative and uninspiring Motegi circuit they run GP motorcycles on, though.

And if F1 cars aren't substantially better at overtaking next year, they might as well pack up and go home. Bernie's monopoly on top-level motorsports won't last forever, and as soon as a credible alternative can attract a couple of big names, F1, staying as it is now, will die.

[britishtrident]

I voted for Donington because of its better geographical position, I think it really should have moved to Donnington twenty years ago but I think the BRDC & Silverstone were stiched up from the beginning ---.
Having said all that the real spiritual home of the British Grand Prix is Brands.

[Rob]

The thought of F1 cars negotiating the Craner Curves gives me a bigger buzz than anything about Silverstone does.

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by Fatgadget
Why not alternate between the two venues?

Because a promoter can't make enough money to pay for the infrastructure having the race every year much less on half that.

[beanoid]

Donington is dull as dishwater with Moto GP bikes (unless it rains), so I can only imagine the snorefest it will produce with F1 cars. :

[reason42]

Could the European GP be at Silverstone in the future, perhaps?

[Jacquesback]

Tilke is involved with Donnington so my vote is for Silverstone.

[jonpollak]

I went to the Donnington weekend in 93.
Brought the wife and everything. (that was the last race she ever attended)

Talk about a facility masquerading as a village fate...

Jp

[Bloggsworth]

1,000 helicopter movements on raceday, I think not, unless Bernie plans to shut East Midlands Airport.

[Ricardo F1]

Silverstone. Not even a question. Awesome track.

[Fortymark]

What´s wrong with Silverstone?!
IMO one of the best tracks and usually it´s one of
the best races during the season and has been so for decades.

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by Fortymark
What´s wrong with Silverstone?!
IMO one of the best tracks and usually it´s one of
the best races during the season and has been so for decades.

My thoughts also. Donington will need a huge amount spent on it to bring it up to spec.

[kar]

Originally posted by Fortymark
What´s wrong with Silverstone?!
IMO one of the best tracks and usually it´s one of
the best races during the season and has been so for decades.

There's nothing wrong with the track itself. In fact of all the tracks it's probably among the best in F1.

It's just everything else. And the fact the sanctioning fee is too low for CVC and Bernie's liking.

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by kar


There's nothing wrong with the track itself. In fact of all the tracks it's probably among the best in F1.

It's just everything else. And the fact the sanctioning fee is too low for CVC and Bernie's liking.

Everything else like what? I have not been to Silverstone for a couple of years but I always thought the facilities were good.

[reason42]

Originally posted by SirSaltire
Everything else like what? I have not been to Silverstone for a couple of years but I always thought the facilities were good.

Probably things that matter at a commercial level, rather than a sporting level. For example, corporate hospitality, income from turn styles, venue fees and so on. Probably nothing to do with the level of competition, the quality of the track and potential racing action - the things that should matter in motor sport.

One thing is for sure, it's nothing to do with the weather!

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by jonpollak
I went to the Donnington weekend in 93.
Brought the wife and everything. (that was the last race she ever attended)

Talk about a facility masquerading as a village fate...

Jp

Cool, u saw Senna in the rain, masterclass.

I don't know how a dry Donnington race would be with current f1 cars, the 93 race was great with the rain, but with the grip still of current cars, it might not suite the racing, but maybe the rules will change again.



Any how, regarding Silverstone, Spa went and came back, Suzuka has gone, and yet to come back, but hopefully it will, maybe it was time to let it go and crave for it to come back, personally I think Suzuka not being in the season is more higher prority, much more of a drivers track, those Ss are made for f1.

[Atreiu]

In current forrm, Silverstone vs Donington any day.
With some money, Brands Hatch over anyone else.


Will they change Donington's layout? It certainly seems too small and narrow now.

[Risil]

Originally posted by SeanValen


Any how, regarding Silverstone, Spa went and came back, Suzuka has gone, and yet to come back, but hopefully it will, maybe it was time to let it go and crave for it to come back, personally I think Suzuka not being in the season is more higher prority, much more of a drivers track, those Ss are made for f1.

Suzuka is confirmed on the 2009 calendar, thankfully. And maybe the Fuji/Suzuka alternation will pave the way for a similar structure being in place for Silverstone and Donington. As the past 20 years have shown, there is no earthly reason why Silverstone is fundamentally unfit for F1, and it won't exactly crumble without Bernie's constant attention. I can see MotoGP making the switch to Northants, provided it still exists in 2010.

[SirSaltire]

Anyone been to Donington recently? Would the road infrastructure cope with 100,000 people?

[Risil]

Originally posted by SirSaltire
Anyone been to Donington recently? Would the road infrastructure cope with 100,000 people?

MotoGP gets 85-90,000, and although people complain about the jams getting out, as far as I'm concerned being stuck in the carpark for a couple of hours on the way out of the circuit is an integral part of going to a race.

But I'm sure many of the people Bernie was targeting when he switched the GP from Silverstone would disagree.;)

[SirSaltire]

Originally posted by Risil


MotoGP gets 85-90,000, and although people complain about the jams getting out, as far as I'm concerned being stuck in the carpark for a couple of hours on the way out of the circuit is an integral part of going to a race.

But I'm sure many of the people Bernie was targeting when he switched the GP from Silverstone would disagree.;)

I had no idea that MotoGP had such a big turnout. I'm not sure the reason for switching venues was to target a new audience. In fact I don't think Bernie cares much about folk at the track. Just money in HIS pocket and viewing figures (to keep sponsors happy).

[pingu666]

ive seen great races at donington in the past (on tv mind...)
possible to pass into turn one, the old hairpin, then next real turn, the turn onto teh straight (hard tho...) the chicane, and at both hairpins. classic circuit, and imo they dont need to make it longer, its hard to know what would be best

[djellison]

Originally posted by SirSaltire
Anyone been to Donington recently? Would the road infrastructure cope with 100,000 people?

Spend £100m on it and it would, at least, as well as any venue can handle, say, 40,000 cars descending on one place at the same time. £100m means a new pit/paddock complex, and I would imagine significant remodelling of most of the south side.

The WSR get's a LOT of spectators ( because it's free ) - and it's maybe 20 minutes to get in.

I remember the queue for Silverstone starting on the M40 when visiting it from the SW once. 22 miles of solid traffic....and you know what?

I didn't give a damn.

Doug

[stevewf1]

Can't wait to see what Donnington looks like when Tilke gets done with it...

[vlcc]

Originally posted by color
who cares?
bring on more tracks like monaco, valencia or singapore... others are just boring.

yea - spa, suzuka, boring eh?

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by reason42


Probably things that matter at a commercial level, rather than a sporting level. For example, corporate hospitality, income from turn styles, venue fees and so on. Probably nothing to do with the level of competition, the quality of the track and potential racing action - the things that should matter in motor sport.

One thing is for sure, it's nothing to do with the weather!

I've been a guest in the hospitality suites (at Ferrari of all places!) at Silverstone. It was great.

[devil500]

Bring BACK THE USGP

Voted Donington looks a bit more interesting

[Ricardo F1]

Indy can't compare to Silverstone. That track was an abortion.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by SirSaltire
I had no idea that MotoGP had such a big turnout. .

Don't usually follow bikes,but I did watch a bit of Donington TV coverage.One thing I noticed was that every bit of grass banking was covered with humanity,all wearing black Doubt if WSR got half that number despite free tickets? Maybe the bike fans all went by bike-a lot of them seemed to be passing through here on the friday.Personally I would rather they found a street circuit ,revive Birmingham? Voted for Donington-nearer to home,better spectator viewing,accessable by public transport.Airport next door for those coming from abroad-helicopters could be a problem.

[Matheson]

Geographically I would say Donny; but FFS don't let Tilke near the place. (How much does an assassination cost? In fact make it a triple - Tilke, S&Max, & the Oompa Loompa)
Common sense says leave it at Silverstone, and steal some of the Olympic money. I really wish the Oompa Loompa would just quit his vendetta against them (that Brazil remains on the calender surely contradicts...).

I vote for Knockhill

[rolf123]

Originally posted by Rob29
accessable by public transport

How is that? It's miles down country lanes.

[fifi]

i went to the WSR a couple of years back, the car park was a field across from the main entrance, getting in was slow took about an hour to get in from the main road from nottingham, getting out took us nearly 3 hours to get from the track back to nottingham
the sunday was much worse, we gave up trying, we had been queuing for over an hour and we werent close to the motorway, as soon as we got to the motorway junction we ended up just leaving cos we werent even half way to the track

[jk]

Brundle drivers a Ferrari F1 on Donington:


It seems the Craner Curves is not that challengin in a modern F1. And with the new cars with smaller engines, they would probably be able to go almost flat out through there.
Donington is a pretty circuit, but it seems too small and tight for an F1 car. The Redgate to Coppice section is great, but probably not nearly as challenging in F1 as it is on bikes.

[Kevan]

Originally posted by stevewf1
Can't wait to see what Donnington looks like when Tilke gets done with it...

That's one of the things that depresses me about this- I love Donington, it's one of my favourite tracks- I was born and brought up within 10 miles of the place, I saw my first ever race there, and even though I live 200 miles away now, I've been there at least a hundred times over the last 20 years, and as much as the place really does need bringing into the 21st century, the thought of it turned into another sanitised boring Tilke-drome isn't a happy one....

If Silverstone apparently can no longer cut it at F1 level, if Bernie's to be believed , then I can't see how the hell Donington is going to do it without them basically digging the entire site up and starting again- and all done in time for 2010? I'm not holding my breath....

[jagnut]

I took the family to the BTCC at Donnington this year and my wife said she would never, ever go to the circuit again. If the £100 million improves the toilets, the spectator facilities, widens/lengthens the track and improves access, then it might make a decent event, but it can bear no resemblance to the current layout. Remember the Melbourne loop is only there to take it over 2 miles and qualify for top level competition.
If Bernie got upset at getting stuck in the Silverstone car park, he would go apoplectic at the current Donnington facilities. Garden fete just about sums it up.
I will be interested to see how they get a FIA F1 track licence with the current run-off, let alone facilities.
At least we still have a Grand Prix

[Kevan]

Originally posted by jagnut
I took the family to the BTCC at Donnington this year and my wife said she would never, ever go to the circuit again. If the £100 million improves the toilets, the spectator facilities, widens/lengthens the track and improves access, then it might make a decent event, but it can bear no resemblance to the current layout. Remember the Melbourne loop is only there to take it over 2 miles and qualify for top level competition.
If Bernie got upset at getting stuck in the Silverstone car park, he would go apoplectic at the current Donnington facilities. Garden fete just about sums it up.
I will be interested to see how they get a FIA F1 track licence with the current run-off, let alone facilities.
At least we still have a Grand Prix

I wouldn't bet on us still having a GP- I struggle to see how the scale of works that you describe are going to be ready in time, unless they're basically planning to close the place down for the entire 2009 season.

I've got an awful fear that this will end in one of three ways:
1. Sometime late 2009, the BRDC will get a call from the Donington investors saying 'we won't be ready in time- what'll it cost to lease Silverstone for the 2010 GP weekend?
2. Sometime late 2009, Bernie will get a call from the Donington investors saying 'we won't be ready in time'- and Bernie hands the date over to Dubai, Moscow or anywhere else he's got lined up
3. Donington gets rebuilt and the race goes ahead in 2010, but at a barely-finished Donington that still looks like a construction site- Bernie gets stuck in a carpark somewhere, accuses them of breaching their contract and it's 'Bye-Bye British GP'

I can't shake off the feeling that for Bernie this deal has nothing to so with saving the British GP, and everything to do with how much money he thinks he can screw out of the Donington investors....

[Rob29]

Originally posted by rolf123


How is that? It's miles down country lanes.

Aparently a rail link to the airport opens in December.

[elia37]

Originally posted by fifi
i went to the WSR a couple of years back, the car park was a field across from the main entrance, getting in was slow took about an hour to get in from the main road from nottingham, getting out took us nearly 3 hours to get from the track back to nottingham
the sunday was much worse, we gave up trying, we had been queuing for over an hour and we werent close to the motorway, as soon as we got to the motorway junction we ended up just leaving cos we werent even half way to the track

We went to WSR last year: on Saturday we queued for 3 hours on the M1 sliproad, moving about 100 yards in that time, before giving up and going home. On Sunday it took 2 hours to get into the circuit.