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interesting comments by Kimi about qual, tyres, JPM, FM.


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#1 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 14:41

Here is an inteview from Turun Sanomat, which I think needs a topic of it´s own. If not, then moderators please feel free to merge it.

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Kimin aika-ajot viime vuotta edellä

Turun Sanomat, Silverstone

HEIKKI KULTA

Maailmanmestari Kimi Räikkösen aika-ajot eivät tälläkään kaudella ole menneet odotetun vahvasti.

Onko mestari huolestunut, kun MM-taisto voi ratketa siihen, miten hyvin mestariehdokkaat saavat renkaansa toimimaan juuri aika-ajossa?

- Ei sitä oikeastaan kannata murehtia. On tässä paljon muitakin asioita, jotka voivat ratkaista enemmän. Tuntuu vaan, että jokaisella on ollut huonoja kisoja ja sen takia kärkipaikka on mennyt edestakaisin, kun ne ovat osuneet eri aikoihin, Räikkönen pohtii Turun Sanomien haastattelussa.

Entä sitten omat aika-ajosuorituksesi?

- Eivät ne menneet viime vuonnakaan niin kuin halusin. Nyt tänä vuonna on mennyt yleisesti ottaen paremmin kuin silloin. Automme on nyt vahvempi ja luulen, että aika-ajo on menossa parempaan suuntaan.

- Viimeistään ensi vuonna tilanne on taas parempi. Kun renkaat muuttuvat, niin eiköhän niillä slickseillä pysty taas ajamaankin. Näillä renkailla, mitä meillä on nyt, ei pysty tekemään mitään, Räikkönen ruotii.

- Jos ei saa säätöjä aivan kohdalleen, ei autoa pysty aika-ajossa ajamaan oikeastaan lainkaan. Se vaan luistaa, eikä toimi niin kuin haluan, eikä käänny oikein.

Massa kaatuu kuin Montoya

Räikkönen päihitti McLarenilla supernopeana pidetyn Juan Pablo Montoyan aika-ajossa, mutta nyt Ferrarilla toinen latino Felipe Massa on johtanut lauantaisin orkesteria.

Maailmanmestari katsoo kuitenkin, ettei tilanne ole muuttunut oikeastaan mihinkään - oli häntä vastassa sitten Montoya tai Massa.

- Tietenkään ei sitä ikinä voi suoraan vertailla, kun autot ovat niin erilaisia. Mutta jos auto on hyvä ja saan kaiken kohdalleen kuten McLarenilla, niin siinä mitään eroa ole.

- Uskon, että silloin Montoyan kanssa ne renkaat olivat ainakin minulle paljon paremmat ja sain ajaa niillä juuri kuten halusinkin. Nyt kun saamme auton toimimaan, ei se tilanne oikeastaan ole siitä muuttunut mihinkään.

- Luulen, että yleisesti ottaen nämä renkaat sellaisina kuin ne ovat, sopivat paremmin Massalle. Oli Montoyakin välillä vahva, vaikka minusta hän oli kyllä vahvempi silloin kuin ajoi Williamsilla. Ei se McLaren oikein sopinut hänelle. Hän valitti autoakin. On niin monta asiaa, mikä sopii itse kullekin, Räikkönen summaili.

Tallikavereina Montoya teki kaikkensa murtaakseen Räikkösen henkisesti. Massa on pohjustanut kärkipaikkaansa hieman pehmeämmin asein.

- Samanlaisia ne ovat kaikki, jotka tulevat Brasiliasta tai sieltäpäin. Vähän erikoista porukkaa ne ovat, eikä niistä tiedä, millä tunteella ne aina oikein ovat, Räikkönen kuittaa tallikaveriensa tulisemmat luonteet.

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I´m too lazy to translate everything, so here are just most interesting bits:

Q: How about your own qual perfomances?

A: Those didn´t go as I wanted last year either. This year has been generally a bit better. Our car is stronger, and I think that we are heading into right direction in qualifyings.

- At latest, in next year the situation will be better. When tyres change, then propably the slicks are tyres that you can drive with for once. With a tyres we have now, you can´t do anything, Räikkönen complains.

- If you dont get your set up spot on, you wont be able to do anything in quals with your car. It doesn´t work the way I want, the car doesnt turn as it should.

About team mates Massa and Montoya:

World champion reckons that situation hasn´t change, whether he is up against Massa or Montoya.

- Of course you can´t have direct comparations, because cars are so different. But if the car is good and I get everything working as I did in Mclaren, then there is no difference.

- I think that back then with Montoya, the tyres suited more to me and I could drive with those just the way I wanted. Now when we get the car working properly, it hasn´t changed at all.

- I think that, generally speaking, these tyres suit better for Massa. But Montoya was also strong at times, even though I think he was stronger when he drove for Williams. That Mclaren didn´t really suit him. He complained about car too. There is so many things that suits for each person, Räikkönen said.

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#2 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 14:57

Thanks YR. :up:
The comments on JPM are dead on.
Great driver, but limited technical expertise.

#3 pingu666

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 14:58

nice :up:

#4 noikeee

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:25

To sum up, Montoya had his best years at Williams, Raikkonen had his best years (so far) at McLaren, and Massa is having his best years (so far) at Ferrari right now. Sounds right and pretty obvious to me.

#5 Spunout

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:25

Before JPM fans hop in, let´s not forget last year - despite of new car, new tyre, new team + all these issues - KR beat his teammate and won the WDC. Without excuses or fantasy scenarios where he would have / should have / could have been fast. So quite ok year, IMHO. I think all drivers must play with cards they are given. Nobody will always have perfect car / tyres / etc. Kimi´s difficulties with Ferrari make it clear F1 cars are never perfect and cannot be tailor-made to suit Kimi, Felipe or Juan. Will you be tenth or second off? Will you keep the car on black stuff to score 2nd place or "lose it" and spin out? It´s about how you can get around challenges from year to year, in the end that will decide your place in history books.

This year one KR quote I liked was (referring to qualifying) "at the moment Felipe is doing better job" :up:

Thanks for posting this, yr...

#6 mursuka80

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:31

And lets stop all speculation about kimi retiring after this year, because he said that next years tires will be better for him because you can drive around setup problems with slicks:)

#7 Hammerlynx

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:33

Tallikavereina Montoya teki kaikkensa murtaakseen Räikkösen henkisesti. Massa on pohjustanut kärkipaikkaansa hieman pehmeämmin asein.

- Samanlaisia ne ovat kaikki, jotka tulevat Brasiliasta tai sieltäpäin. Vähän erikoista porukkaa ne ovat, eikä niistä tiedä, millä tunteella ne aina oikein ovat, Räikkönen kuittaa tallikaveriensa tulisemmat luonteet.

As a team-mate Montoya did everything to break Räikkönen metally. Massa has worked for his #1 status with more soft methods.

-All those coming from Brazil or that area, are similar. A little bit peculiar, and you really don't know what are they thinking/feeling about. Raikkönen comments on the latino hot blood.

#8 BMW_F1

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:35

Originally posted by yr


World champion reckons that situation hasn´t change, whether he is up against Massa or Montoya.

- Of course you can´t have direct comparations, because cars are so different. But if the car is good and I get everything working as I did in Mclaren, then there is no difference.

- I think that back then with Montoya, the tyres suited more to me and I could drive with those just the way I wanted. Now when we get the car working properly, it hasn´t changed at all.

- I think that, generally speaking, these tyres suit better for Massa. But Montoya was also strong at times, even though I think he was stronger when he drove for Williams. That Mclaren didn´t really suit him. He complained about car too. There is so many things that suits for each person, Räikkönen said.


I wonder what was the question asked..

#9 Spunout

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:39

Originally posted by BMW_F1


I wonder what was the question asked..


Based on Finnish article, no clue. Also, there is mention of JPM "trying everything to break KR psychologically". However, that part isn´t question nor comment by Kimi.

#10 Hammerlynx

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:45

Originally posted by Spunout


Based on Finnish article, no clue. Also, there is mention of JPM "trying everything to break KR psychologically". However, that part isn´t question nor comment by Kimi.


Yes. That was Heikki Kulta's personal oppinnion, nothing Kimi said. Heikki Kulta writes with total Finn-glasses on. Nothing really objective to reed.

#11 TailG

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 15:46

The best part was left un-translated:

Tallikavereina Montoya teki kaikkensa murtaakseen Räikkösen henkisesti. Massa on pohjustanut kärkipaikkaansa hieman pehmeämmin asein.

- Samanlaisia ne ovat kaikki, jotka tulevat Brasiliasta tai sieltäpäin. Vähän erikoista porukkaa ne ovat, eikä niistä tiedä, millä tunteella ne aina oikein ovat, Räikkönen kuittaa tallikaveriensa tulisemmat luonteet.

When they were teammates Montoya did everything to break Raikkonen. Massa has been little softer in his approach when it comes to teammate treatment.

-They are the same, all of them coming from Brazil or from that direction. They are little weird and you never know what they are thinking said Raikkonen when asked about the emotional side of his teammate.

#12 BMW_F1

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:03

Kimi basically said nothing new.. Everyone knows the MClaren did not suit Juan and his performance suffered as a result, he could not do a good job to work around those problems - he is not very good with setup and on top of that his team relationship was bad. It is obvious that he would be slower than Kimi when Kimi could get the most out of his car and Juan couldn't . This isn't being a fanboy, this is the reality as Kimi pointed out..

#13 Spunout

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:12

Originally posted by BMW_F1
Kimi basically said nothing new.. Everyone knows the MClaren did not suit Juan and his performance suffered as a result, he could not do a good job to work around those problems - he is not very good with setup and on top of that his team relationship was bad. It is obvious that he would be slower than Kimi when Kimi could get the most out of his car and Juan couldn't . This isn't being a fanboy, this is the reality as Kimi pointed out..


Since getting the most out of your car is THE definition of being fast, one can hardly disagree with your comments. Essentially, you´re saying "Kimi was faster than JPM".

As you pointed out: this is the reality.

Let´s leave it to that...

:up:

#14 BMW_F1

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:22

Originally posted by Spunout


Since getting the most out of your car is THE definition of being fast, one can hardly disagree with your comments. Essentially, you´re saying "Kimi was faster than JPM".

As you pointed out: this is the reality.

Let´s leave it to that...

:up:


Huh?.. Whatever.. The car did not suit him as it did to Kimi... Why are you so blind to not acknowledge this simple fact even when Kimi admits to it. Most probably the question was who has been the stronger teammate between Massa and JPM and he basically said that the car feel is very important to detemine that and that Juan had problems with the car when they were teammates therefore cannot judge him just based on those (almost) two years. He pointed out Juan was stronger with the Williams, everyone knows this.

#15 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:29

Originally posted by BMW_F1
Kimi basically said nothing new.. Everyone knows the MClaren did not suit Juan and his performance suffered as a result, he could not do a good job to work around those problems - he is not very good with setup and on top of that his team relationship was bad. It is obvious that he would be slower than Kimi when Kimi could get the most out of his car and Juan couldn't . This isn't being a fanboy, this is the reality as Kimi pointed out..


And at the moment, Kimi can´t best out of tyres, he still won WDC last year and beat Massa in the process. This year he is few points after having more bad luck, but he will be on top , rest assured, when season is over.

So:

Kimi beats Juan by a big margin when he has favourable conditions (read: tyres fitting his driving style).
Kimi beats Felipe by some margin (in 07, this year isn´t over yet) when favourable conditions (read: tyres) are on Felipes side.

What can we conclude from this? Kimi rocks, JPM and FM sucks. :lol: Just kidding. :wave:

#16 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:32

Originally posted by BMW_F1


Huh?.. Whatever.. The car did not suit him as it did to Kimi... Why are you so blind to not acknowledge this simple fact even when Kimi admits to it.



And you are first one to deny that Kimi might suffer for current tyres. You posted even in friday practise thread, something like: "Kimi having troubles to find set up...again".

#17 Spunout

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:36

Originally posted by BMW_F1


Huh?.. Whatever.. The car did not suit him as it did to Kimi... Why are you so blind to not acknowledge this simple fact even when Kimi admits to it. Most probably the question was who has been the stronger teammate between Massa and JPM and he basically said that the car feel is very important to detemine that and that Juan had problems with the car when they were teammates therefore cannot judge him just based on those (almost) two years. He pointed out Juan was stronger with the Williams, everyone knows this.


Blind??? That´s rich coming from you :eek:



You wrote this:

It is obvious that he would be slower than Kimi when Kimi could get the most out of his car and Juan couldn't



And I wrote this:

Since getting the most out of your car is THE definition of being fast, one can hardly disagree with your comments. Essentially, you´re saying "Kimi was faster than JPM"



When you get more out of your car, you go faster. When you get less out of your car, you go slower. This is always the case in motorsports. Kimi got more out of his car than JPM, he was faster.

I have difficulties seeing where the disagreement is?

#18 BMW_F1

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:38

Originally posted by yr



And you are first one to deny that Kimi might suffer for current tyres. You posted even in friday practise thread, something like: "Kimi having troubles to find set up...again".


did I deny Kimi suffer from current tires..? I simply asked a question before to see where he say this because I could not recall this from past PC..I think the tires the car is the combo and if the setup is not right, he would have problems in getting the best out of the car.. Kimi had setup problems, that I recall, last year also..

#19 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:43

Originally posted by BMW_F1


did I deny Kimi suffer from current tires..? I simply asked a question before to see where he say this because I could not recall this from past PC..I think the tires the car is the combo and if the setup is not right, he would have problems in getting the best out of the car.. Kimi had setup problems, that I recall, last year also..


Well, here you have answer in this very thread, Kimi´s own words about tyre issue. Just read the opening post again. It´s very clear that swiching to BridgeStones has hurt Kimi, as it has been evident for anyone who watched his awsome qual laps when he was in Mclaren and have watched him struggle in quals ever since he has had Bridgestones.

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#20 BMW_F1

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:46

Originally posted by yr


Well, here you have answer in this very thread, Kimi´s own words about tyre issue. Just read the opening post again. It´s very clear that swiching to BridgeStones had hurt Kimi, as it has been evident for anyone who watched his awsome qual laps when he was in Mclaren and have watched him struggle in quals ever since he has had Bridgestones.


and I think you are confusing me with other posters.. I've never been one of those who claim Kimi is making excuses..

#21 Mauseri

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:46

Interesting to read that KR rates JPM higher than FM, regardless of the results when teammates. I also expected JPM would have been a tougher nut for KR than FM but in F1 performance isnt just driver+car=pace.

#22 BMW_F1

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:53

Originally posted by micra_k10
Interesting to read that KR rates JPM higher than FM, regardless of the results when teammates.


its not interesting, he raced with both, went head to head with both and he knows the capabilities of both. He pointed out JPM could not be judged while driving the Macca because he was always complaining with the car as he has done with the Ferrari.

#23 Spunout

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:57

Originally posted by yr


Well, here you have answer in this very thread, Kimi´s own words about tyre issue. Just read the opening post again. It´s very clear that swiching to BridgeStones has hurt Kimi, as it has been evident for anyone who watched his awsome qual laps when he was in Mclaren and have watched him struggle in quals ever since he has had Bridgestones.


Dunno...he posted pretty awesome lap today.

IMO we should give Massa credit, instead of assuming every time Kimi loses to Felipe must be related to tyres or car (which are the same for both Ferrari pilots). Kimi being dissatisfied with tyres doesn´t mean he would have beaten his teammate if this or that didn´t happen. Sure: we can always speculate, as KR & FM have been so close thus far. Mind you, this wasn´t the case with Kimi/JPM. Or Kimi/DC, Alonso/Fisi, Schumi/Barrichello, etc. Perhaps in some alternative reality JPM would have lost to his teammate with smaller margin. Who knows? Let´s not forget it´s WDC results and real life performance that count, with car/tyre/rules/whatever used at given time.

#24 kismet

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 16:59

Where does he actually say he rates Montoya higher than Massa? I'm not saying he doesn't, I just don't see it in that interview.

#25 Spunout

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:00

Originally posted by BMW_F1


He pointed out JPM could not be judged while driving the Macca because he was always complaining with the car as he has done with the Ferrari.


Quote, please? Don´t tell me you´re making up stuff again.

#26 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:15

Originally posted by Spunout


Dunno...he posted pretty awesome lap today.

IMO we should give Massa credit, instead of assuming every time Kimi loses to Felipe must be related to tyres or car (which are the same for both Ferrari pilots). Kimi being dissatisfied with tyres doesn´t mean he would have beaten his teammate if this or that didn´t happen. Sure: we can always speculate, as KR & FM have been so close thus far. Mind you, this wasn´t the case with Kimi/JPM. Or Kimi/DC, Alonso/Fisi, Schumi/Barrichello, etc. Perhaps in some alternative reality JPM would have lost to his teammate with smaller margin. Who knows? Let´s not forget it´s WDC results and real life performance that count, with car/tyre/rules/whatever used at given time.


Whether it was awesome lap or not remains to be seen, although it´s not usual for Ferrari to short-fuel their drivers, we still don´t know anything about any fuel loads, and if Kimi pits several laps before others...well, then it wasn´t much of a lap.

About Massa, yes, yes, he is very fast, no doubt. I just don´t believe he would be so close to Kimi in quals if they were on different tyres. These tyres seem to suit more on Felipes driving style, that´s all. Hopefully next year will turn the tide, as Kimi predicted, when slicks come back. That is not excuses though, all drivers need to be competitive with any given rules/tyres/conditions etc. so Kimi just need to get on with his job and do best he can with these tyres. Currently Massa is lucky to have an advantage of Bridgestones being more to his liking, it could have gone the other way around and Michelin would be only tyre supplier in F1 today, that would propably mean Kimi driving circles around Massa just about every race.

In the end only results count and so far it´s Kimi WDC 2007 - Massa 4th in WDC 2007. So I wont complain.

#27 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:22

slicks are tyres that you can drive with for once

I suspect most of the drivers share similar sentiments. A shame they don't mention it more often.

#28 Mauseri

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:26

Originally posted by BMW_F1
its not interesting, he raced with both, went head to head with both and he knows the capabilities of both.

:confused: Why?

I thought it's interesting an expert like Kimi recognizes things what numerous armchairexperts have noted too. JPM couldnt do what he wanted with the McLaren, and Kimi cant drive the Ferrari how he would like to.

Now, obviously we cant except everything is always perfect for Massa either ;)

In the end the only thing what matters is how much they get out of their equipment, and so far Kimi is beating his all teammates in F1, more or less.

#29 Spunout

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:30

Originally posted by yr


if Kimi pits several laps before others...well, then it wasn´t much of a lap.


How come? To me it looked like the car simply wasn´t that great.

About Massa, yes, yes, he is very fast, no doubt. I just don´t believe he would be so close to Kimi in quals if they were on different tyres. These tyres seem to suit more on Felipes driving style, that´s all. Hopefully next year will turn the tide, as Kimi predicted, when slicks come back. That is not excuses though, all drivers need to be competitive with any given rules/tyres/conditions etc. so Kimi just need to get on with his job and do best he can with these tyres. Currently Massa is lucky to have an advantage of Bridgestones being more to his liking, it could have gone the other way around and Michelin would be only tyre supplier in F1 today, that would propably mean Kimi driving circles around Massa just about every race.



I have to disagree here :) Massa is very, very strong nowadays...

In the end only results count and so far it´s Kimi WDC 2007 - Massa 4th in WDC 2007. So I wont complain.



True. Kimi won the WDC. And unless we accept BMW_F1´s warped version where only the bad luck since Monza is counted (ya know...two race-ending mech failures...no biggie! the same thing he says about Montoya in 2003), 1st and 4th places in the WDC were fully deserved. Kimi certainly wasn´t more lucky than his teammate. Hopefully this year Lady Fortuna ends up being equally generous to both Ferrari pilots, so that better man wins in the end.

#30 giacomo

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:37

Originally posted by TailG

When they were teammates Montoya did everything to break Raikkonen. Massa has been little softer in his approach when it comes to teammate treatment.

-They are the same, all of them coming from Brazil or from that direction. They are little weird and you never know what they are thinking said Raikkonen when asked about the emotional side of his teammate.

I wonder what he thinks about the emotional side of those coming from Scandinavia or from that direction. Maybe they are hiding emotions and never talking and you never know what they are thinking because of that?

#31 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 17:55

Originally posted by Spunout

I have to disagree here :) Massa is very, very strong nowadays...[/B]


Well, then we must disagree. I too think that Massa is very strong, hell, he was almost equal to Schumi in latter part of his first year in Ferrari. But if you watch races, you will notice that Kimi has that small edge in race-pace in 9 times out of 10. That´s with tyres that suit better for Massa. That´s huge achievement.

Qualifyings are 4-5 in Massa´s favour and that includes Australia where Kimi wasn´t even able to get in q3 because of mech.prob. So, what would have happend if the tyres were Michelins which suited for Kimi perfectly instead of Bridgestones that does suit perfectly for Massa but doesn´t suit for Kimi?

#32 Mauseri

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 18:02

Originally posted by giacomo
I wonder what he thinks about the emotional side of those coming from Scandinavia or from that direction. Maybe they are hiding emotions and never talking and you never know what they are thinking because of that?

I agree it's a pain to understand the extremely overlived emotions of hulabaloo people and the rapic changes of them. This causes some head scratching even on this forum. I prefer an emotional sweet spot and only reserved changes of emotions.

#33 pingu666

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 18:40

and how do we know the tyres suit massa more? ;)
imo between the two of them, on any given weekend it comes down to luck,whos on form, does the circuit suit so and so, even then the "loser" isnt far behind...

and i think slicks will/would favour hamilton and montoya, simply because slicks have a higher slip angle, and those two like to drift and have the car move about, and still be fast.

that said, i think they we all be very very close, whatever tyre format :)

#34 Sneezy

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 18:48

Kimi = Felipe > JPM.

I know, that's very simplistic but it's true in general. Obviously on a given track at a given time they can (Kimi and Felipe) and could (Kimi and JPM) beat each other. But it's not a stretch to claim the above. One and a half to two years in the same car is the minimum to be able to evaluate two drivers.

#35 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 18:51

Originally posted by pingu666
and how do we know the tyres suit massa more? ;)


Because Kimi said so? He isn´t known about making excuses everytime he doesn´t come on top. If he was full of excuses, why didn´t he say that Mclaren and tyres were perfect for JPM but he beat him with his talent? Let´s face it, Kimi tells it like it is: Kimi had the luxury of being more comfertable with Mclaren/Bridgestones than JPM and Massa has the luxury to be more comfertable with Bridgestones. Fair enough, eh?

The main thing is though, whoever gets that advantage of having things (car/tyres/whatever) to his liking from these three driveres, it seems Kimi always come on top in WDC standings. ;)

#36 Mauseri

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 18:55

Originally posted by Sneezy
Kimi = Felipe > JPM.

Felipe is a champion? :confused: Vice champion at least? :confused:

KR > JPM ~ FM

#37 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 18:56

Originally posted by Sneezy
Kimi = Felipe > JPM.


No, it´s more like:

Kimi with Michelins > Felipe, JPM (with ease).

Kimi with Bridgestones > or = Massa (depending on race, but overall as seen last year it´s Kimi > Massa).

#38 Sneezy

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:01

I also believe Kimi tells it like it is. He's a straight shooter. He might be struggling a bit more than Felipe but there's nothing that claims it will change next year. Slicks, less aero grip, more mechanical grip etc. Too many factors for Kimi to hint he will be much stronger next year. Look, basicly everyone said Felipe and Robert would be the top team drivers that would struggle the most without TC. But as we've seen so far it has been Lewis and Nick along with Fernando in a midteam package. They have really dropped off the pace without TC, both compared to their team mates (few thought Heikki would catch Lewis) and compared to what they should be able to do having in mind passed results. The future is an open book.

#39 Sneezy

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:06

Originally posted by micra_k10

Felipe is a champion? :confused: Vice champion at least? :confused:

KR > JPM ~ FM


I said it was simplistic. But Kimi beat JPM rather easily after at least one and half year. Kimi beat Felipe last year (he would have even without the #1 and #2 status after Monza). This year it seems Felipe has the upper hand. Not only regarding the points but they've had basicly the same amount of issues. The only difference is what it has costed them.

If Felipe beats Kimi then this is true. Kimi = Felipe > JPM.
If Kimi beats Felipe this is true. Kimi > Felipe/JPM ?.

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#40 hello86

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:08

thanks for the translaiton :up: :kiss:

#41 Mauseri

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:13

Originally posted by Sneezy
I said it was simplistic. This year it seems Felipe has the upper hand.

:rotfl:

I think you are simplistic.

#42 Sneezy

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:15

Originally posted by micra_k10

:rotfl:

I think you are simplistic.


Yes, because this is the true sign of brilliance...KR > JPM ~ FM.  ;)

#43 Mauseri

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:17

Originally posted by Sneezy


Yes, because this is the true sign of brilliance...KR > JPM ~ FM.  ;)

At least it's the truth.

#44 giacomo

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:24

Originally posted by yr

Because Kimi said so? He isn´t known about making excuses everytime he doesn´t come on top. If he was full of excuses, why didn´t he say that Mclaren and tyres were perfect for JPM but he beat him with his talent? Let´s face it, Kimi tells it like it is: Kimi had the luxury of being more comfertable with Mclaren/Bridgestones than JPM and Massa has the luxury to be more comfertable with Bridgestones. Fair enough, eh?

The main thing is though, whoever gets that advantage of having things (car/tyres/whatever) to his liking from these three driveres, it seems Kimi always come on top in WDC standings. ;)

Sorry to interrupt, but saying that the tyres suit FM better than him is exactly that: An excuse.

And currently FM is on top in WDC standings.

#45 giacomo

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:25

Originally posted by yr

Kimi with Michelins > Felipe

Wishful thinking, eh?

#46 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:26

Originally posted by giacomo
Sorry to interrupt, but saying that the tyres suit FM better than him is exactly that: An excuse.

And currently FM is on top in WDC standings.


It´s not an excuse, it´s truth. Just as he said that tyres/car suited him more when he was teamed up with JPM.

And currently Kimi is WDC and Massa is not. ;)

#47 Sneezy

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:28

Originally posted by micra_k10

At least it's the truth.


How can it be true if Felipe is leading Kimi right now and this season is still in progress? Yes, Kimi had the upper hand last year. He certainly doesn't have it this year. The book is still open. Let's see the standings after Monza.

#48 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:31

Originally posted by Sneezy


This year it seems Felipe has the upper hand. Not only regarding the points but they've had basicly the same amount of issues. The only difference is what it has costed them.


One really must stretch his imagination to get that conclusion. I am stretching and stretching mine now, and I really can´t come to that conclusion. Sorry.

Massa seems to have upper hand? How exactly?

#49 giacomo

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:31

Originally posted by yr

It´s not an excuse, it´s truth. Just as he said that tyres/car suited him more when he was teamed up with JPM.

Its formulated in the classic excuse style: The tyre AB suits X more than Y.

The truth would sound like that: X does better with the given tyre AB than Y.

#50 yr

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 19:40

Originally posted by giacomo
Its formulated in the classic excuse style: The tyre AB suits X more than Y.

The truth would sound like that: X does better with the given tyre AB than Y.


So you obviously believe that if there are two different tyre characteristic, like say, Bridgestone and Michelin, every driver on the grid would perform just as well with both manufacturers? It´s just an stupid excuses to say that one characteristic of tyres would suit you more?

Wow. That´s quite bold statement, especially when those who actually drive those cars seem to disagree with you.