17 replies to this topic

[Formula Once]

When did a Grand Prix first had a warm-up lap rather than a dummy grid? Must be late seventies, but does anyone know where or why?

[Barry Boor]

By warm-up lap do you mean the parade lap that is currently in use?

I liked it better when they pushed the cars out of the pits, the drivers got in, started up then some old chap waved a flag.... such times.....

[Rob G]

Wasn't there an incident at Miramas in '26 or '27 when a car plowed into a bunch of others at the end of a reconnaissance or warm-up lap, sparking a near-riot among the spectators suddenly deprived of most of the competitors? Or is my memory completely knotted up?

[Paul Taylor]

Sorry to bump this old thread, but in response to Rob G's question...:

Quote

GP de Provence - Miramas - 26/3/1927

...It was still raining heavily when the cars came out for the final. Benoist was last away for his warming-up lap and set off from the pits while the others were being marshalled to the grid. Coming around the final corner into the start finish straight, Benoist was alarmed to discover a number of cars stretched across the track. He braked hard but on the slipper surface the Delage slewed sideways, hit Duray's Amilcar and put both vehicles out of the final. In the wake of this accident, the Talbot team then immediately withdrew its three cars on the grounds that the track was too dangerous.

The remaining cars were then flagged away, with Chiron and Lehoux at the head of affairs, but the unruly Marsaillaise crowd, soaked to the skin and deprived of the leading French entries, suddenly stormed the barriers and invaded the circuit. They then proceeded to attack the Talbot pit and angrily damaged other cars which had been forced to pull up. With the rioters showing no signs of dispersing, the race was abandoned...

[f1steveuk]

A stab at answering the original question. I watched a AFAVA documentry on the 1973 season, and at the start of the year, dummy grid to start grid, by Silverstone, warm up lap, not that it warmed Jody's tyres enough!

[john winfield]

Steve,
I saw this thread reappear and I was thinking exactly the same - British GP 1973. I don't remember if a formal change was introduced earlier that year but I recently saw a YouTube clip:
.

Raymond Baxter refers to a ' warming-up lap' as they set off through Copse. The lap is quite slow, well-behaved with not much frantic tyre warming! It's a wonderful sight as the cars fan across Hangar Straight - 1973 car design and liveries in all their glory.

[john winfield]

Sorry - I don't know how to correct my YouTube 'reference'. It's a 9 minute 'tifosi27' clip, 'Start of the British Grand Prix 1973', the one with the two McLarens and Ronnie staggered diagonally across the sill frame.

[HDonaldCapps]

From a previous question about this: When were warm-up laps introduced

Quote

Originally posted by David Holland
I believe uechtel was right with the 1976 Dutch GP being the first official full warm up lap prior to the race proper. It seems to have become the norm on each race after.
There were warm up laps before this but the cars would then form a dummy grid and move forward to the grid proper as a final warm-up.
So I suppose the last race without a formal warm-up lap (or parade lap or formation lap) would have to be Austria 1976.
Since Indy 2005 I have firmed up my view that any driver who does not take the start proper can not seriously be considered a race-starter. Therefore those 14 guys may technically have taken part in the US GP (and the clued up stayed in the car for the first 2 laps until it was declared a 'proper' race) but in my eyes they were simply a DNS.
I blame Murray Walker for a lot of this confusion because one of his major mantras was that "this formation lap is part of the race distance and counts towards the lap totals" which on reflection was not strictly true.

[f1steveuk]

The Youtube clip disagrees with that! Ray Baxter states, "They move up from the dummy grid, and THEN will do one lap" They do the one lap, and park on the grid, very much as today, and off they go! But if it became the "norm" in 1976, I'd go for that!

[Paul Taylor]

Corrected the link for you John (removed the full stop from the URL tag)

Quote

Originally posted by john winfield
Steve,
I saw this thread reappear and I was thinking exactly the same - British GP 1973. I don't remember if a formal change was introduced earlier that year but I recently saw a YouTube clip:


Raymond Baxter refers to a ' warming-up lap' as they set off through Copse. The lap is quite slow, well-behaved with not much frantic tyre warming! It's a wonderful sight as the cars fan across Hangar Straight - 1973 car design and liveries in all their glory.

[HDonaldCapps]

Quote

Originally posted by f1steveuk
The Youtube clip disagrees with that! Ray Baxter states, "They move up from the dummy grid, and THEN will do one lap" They do the one lap, and park on the grid, very much as today, and off they go! But if it became the "norm" in 1976, I'd go for that!

I am just passing the information on. I think that if one sorts through the FIA Yellow Books you might find the "official" answer.

[Arjan de Roos]

Mike Lang, Grand Prix Vol III, Dutch GP 1976:

".. and not long after the cars were back on the track again, each completing one lap before forming up the grid. This in itself was unusual inasmuch as the normal dummy grid system had been dropped in favour of a new idea whereby the cars then completed a second lap in formation, here led by Peterson and Hunt. Then as soon as they had reassembled on the grid the starting signal was given almost instantaneously, at which point Peterson streaked away from pole...."

[john winfield]

Quote

Originally posted by Paul Taylor
Corrected the link for you John (removed the full stop from the URL tag)

Thank you Paul! My children despair of my (lack of ) IT prowess!

[cpbell]

It sounds, then, as though there always was a warm-up lap, but that the dummy grid procedure following it was scrapped during 1976.

[HDonaldCapps]

Quote

Originally posted by cpbell
It sounds, then, as though there always was a warm-up lap, but that the dummy grid procedure following it was scrapped during 1976.

Be careful with the word "always," particularly in dealing with issues such as this since you can be certain that there is always a problem with "always"....

[Frank Verplanken]

'Always' is indeed hardly relevant, as many of the sporting rules of GP racing in the past (including warm-up lap(s), or the lack thereof) was left to the bon vouloir of the promoters of each track. Remember that up until Bernard Ecclestone tamed them, race promoters ruled their events and each GP had its own particularities. The number and length of practice and qualifying sessions, qualifying rules (at the Ring you had to do a minimum number of laps), starting procedures, not to mention the financial aspect, etc. vastly differed from a race to another.

A quick look at 1967 WDC race reports I have handy give the following info regarding the pre-race warmup laps :

Kyalami : 1 warm-up lap --> dummy grid --> start
Monaco : no warm-up lap, no dummy grid
Zandvoort : no warm-up lap --> dummy grid --> start (and a ectic one almost fatal to a marshall)
Spa : 1 warm-up lap --> start
Bugatti : 1 warm-up lap --> dummy grid --> start
Silverstone : 'several' warm-up laps --> dummy grid --> start
Ring : 15 minutes practice on the Südschleife as per Jaby Crombac, on the Betonschleife (which makes more sense imho) as per Jenks --> dummy grid --> start
Mosport : 1 warm-up lap --> start
Monza : no warm-up lap --> dummy grid --> start (and of course a typical Monza mayhem one)
Watkins Glen : apparently no warm-up lap --> dummy grid --> start
Mexico : 1 warm-up lap --> dummy grid --> start

[cpbell]

Apologies, gentlemen, for the excessive certainty of my post - as you say, things were rather more variable in those days. This, of course, means that warm-up laps were a regular occurrence further back than '73. It would be interesting to see if Miramas was indeed the first.

[fines]

Hardly. But Indianapolis 1911 may have been the very first.