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T-cars at the Indy 500


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#1 gary24fan

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 22:35

Hi all,

Somewhere around 1982 (and maybe before) I know USAC started assigning a separate "car number" for T-cars entered in the Indy 500, usually placed around the area of the roll bar (or on it). Has anyone ever compiled a roster of these from year to year? I have a list of some based on photos in magazines and on the internet but I know it's not complete.

Also does anyone know why they stopped doing this with the formation of the IRL? Or maybe that's the answer to that question? :cool:

Thanks all.

Gary

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#2 Henri Greuter

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 06:52

Originally posted by gary24fan
Hi all,

Somewhere around 1982 (and maybe before) I know USAC started assigning a separate "car number" for T-cars entered in the Indy 500, usually placed around the area of the roll bar (or on it). Has anyone ever compiled a roster of these from year to year? I have a list of some based on photos in magazines and on the internet but I know it's not complete.

Also does anyone know why they stopped doing this with the formation of the IRL? Or maybe that's the answer to that question? :cool:

Thanks all.

Gary



I believe that the separate numbers were released in order to make things easier for Timing&Scoring and that the transponders were numbered accordingly.

The only numbers I can give you right now (you probably have these anyway)

1990: March-Alfa Romeo 90CA #20T was 82 on the rollhoop
1990: March-Porsche 89P #41T was 54 on the rollhoop

I have seen another picture of a 89P backup car without a number. But the number was fitted on a coverplate within the nose of the chassis while the coque still showed the "T". Given the fact that the primary cars were numbered 4 and 41 and I've seen the 41T, I think this car must have been the 4T. The roll hoop number was very faint to see (bad angle of pic) but it read as being 74. The only other number coming lcose to what it may have been is 14 and we all know who had that number....

I am very eager about the numbers assigned to the different 1994 Penske backups, both Mercedes and Ilmor powered. Do you have anything on them?

I was too short "In town at Indy" this year to find out about the current IRL rules this year, sorry for that.


Henri

#3 gary24fan

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 21:58

Henri, actually I don't think I have the two you gave me, so first off thanks :)

I will get you the info I have and post in this thread (and for anyone else interested for that matter). I have not transferred it to a computer file yet, it's handwritten, and I know where it is, I just have to retrieve it. Should be tomorrow at the latest!

Thanks again.

Gary

#4 gary24fan

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 22:58

Henri, this is what I have (finally found my list). I've also added the two you gave me for 1990 and others I found perusing the Indy/Champ car history thread here elsewhere:

Year Car# Team/Driver USAC #
1983 2T Penske/Mears 57
7T Penske/Unser 52
56T Gohr/Chassey 58

1984 33T Forsythe/Fabi 32
47T WIT/Fittipaldi 46

1985 10T Truesports/Rahal 70
18T Kraco/Cogan 58
22T Simon/Simon 23
23T Simon/Boesel 22
34T Wysard/Crawford 54

1986 2T Newman/Andretti 32
3T Truesports/Rahal 73
5T Bignotti/Guerrero 75
6T Morales/Vogler 21
8T Galles/Brabham 38
30T Shierson/Unser Jr. 50
33T Curb/Sneva 43

1987 1T Truesports/Rahal 31
8T Penske/Mears 28
15T Galles/Brabham 45
25T Penske/Unser 85
33T Curb/Sneva 73
33TT Curb/Sneva 89
56T Gohr/G. Bettenhausen 65

1988 21T Morales/Holmes 34
30T Shierson/Boesel 90

1989 10T Raynor/Daly 72

1990 20T Patrick/Guerrero 82
41T Porsche/J. Andretti 54

1991 12T Arciero/Carter 65
50T Euromotorsport/Theys 75

1992 2T Newman/Ma. Andretti 85
3T Galles/Unser Jr. 43
26T Bernstein/Crawford 86
27T Menard/Unser 52
44T Simon/St. James 46
47T Hayhoe/Vasser 74

1993 1T Hogan/Rahal 70
4T Penske/Fittipaldi 62
12T Penske/Tracy 72
99T Turley/Cheever 31

1994 4T Hogan/Rahal 92
5T Simon/Boesel 53
7T Simon/Fernandez 70
9T Walker/Gordon 52
10T Hogan/Groff 65
25T Arciero/Greco 75
27T Menard/Cheever 77
31T Penske/Unser Jr. 93
40T Bernstein/Goodyear 60
44T Sinden/Unser 34
59T Menard/Brayton 43
50 Penske-Ilmor became #4
62 Penske-Ilmor
62T Penske-Ilmor 86
80 Penske-Ilmor

1995 1T Penske/Unser Jr. 53
9T Hogan/Rahal 56
11T Simon/Boesel 57
15T Walker/C. Fittipaldi 67
17T PacWest/Sullivan 37
21T Pagan/Guerrero 93
27T Green/Villeneuve 72
60T Menard/Brayton 79

And that's what I have!

Gary

#5 Rob G

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 00:31

1985
37T Brayton/Brayton 35

1990
8T ?/Vogler 38 (or possibly 88, hard to tell)

1995
7T Simon/Salazar 70

1996
21T Pagan/Guerrero 99 (I think)

#6 Rob G

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 05:28

1985
76T Canadian Tire/Parsons 67
33T Forsythe/Holmes 33 (according to official photo), 53 (according to practice stats in Hungness' Indy 500 Yearbook)
30T Shierson/Unser 73
1T Penske/Unser 81
99T Kraco/Andretti 89
3T Newman-Haas/Andretti 31
97 AAR/Bettenhausen 52 (car listed as 97, not 97T)
7T Galles/Brabham 66
38T Circle Bar/Fillip 39
71T Hemelgarn/Roe 72
24T Leader Card/Bigelow 26

1986
4T Penske/Mears 54
12T Arciero/Lanier 52
61T Race for Life/Luyendyk 67
18T Kraco/Andretti 78
81T Hemelgarn/Villeneuve 91
28T Menard/Daly 27
98T AAR/Lammers 88

That's all I have.

#7 Henri Greuter

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 09:12

Thanks to all,

Must look over my picturebooks I made in 88-94 (save '92 when I wasn't there)
Talk about a project....



checked out the pics I made this year (only the first three days) but I can't see any numbers on the rollhoops anymore.

Henri

#8 gary24fan

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 16:31

From what I can see in the few pictures I have seen, is that this practice did indeed end starting in 1996 with the formation of the IRL. I may be wrong as many of the 1996 and 1997 pictures I've seen are sketchy at best.

Gary

#9 gary24fan

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 18:46

Just finished watching a YouTube video of 1983 "Fast Friday" practice taken from a home movie and managed to get one addition to our growing list:

1983 3T Newman-Haas/Andretti 23

Gary

#10 fines

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 19:33

Those T-numbers became necessary when the number of entries registered regularly over 100 - IMS never issued three-digit numbers, so some had to be used twice. I believe the first year of over a hundred entries was '79, but I may be wrong. Anyway, even before that teams changed numbers from T-cars, or numbered T-cars the same as regular cars, so Team A may have had two cars with #6 on pit row, with one actually being, say, #68 on the entry list!

The first year of IRL the entry list was quite short, so it was not necessaary to issue T-numbers, but I believe they have been re-introduced in the meantime.

#11 gary24fan

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 20:42

Some corrections:

Number 7T for 1994 should be Galles for the race team and not Simon.

Number 11T for 1995 should be Rahal-Hogan and not Simon.

Gary

#12 gary24fan

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 21:11

Well, not to keep this thing popping up at the top but after looking over photos at the Indy 500 website I managed to uncover a few others:

1984
2T Penske/Unser 39
4T Foyt/Snider 14
14T Foyt/Foyt 4
18T Kraco/Brabham 19

1986
21T Morales/Rutherford 6

1987
2T ARS/Crawford (Johncock??) 62

1988
14T Foyt/Foyt 41
23T Simon/Palmroth 83

1989
29T Byrd-Machinists/Vogler 55

I hope this helps any of you who are also tracking this sort of thing. Also thanks again to those who've provided info to me here via this forum. The search continues...

Gary

#13 gary24fan

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 21:54

Gee I should have waited, found some photos on Flickr which gave me this:

1991
39T Coyne/Lewis 90
66T Burns/Dobson 64
86T Bayside/Jeff Andretti 87

Gary

#14 gary24fan

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 21:39

And yet another I stumbled upon:

1984
11T Arciero/Halsmer 49

Gary

#15 malvi

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 08:29

I have quite complete T-car/USAC # listings based on almost everything ever printed about Indy 500(Hungness,Norquest,magazines,press kits, thousands of images), so i list here the cars USAC #s unknown for me with some comments if necessary. My main interest is 80s, so every USAC # 1983-1992 should be known, except these on the list below.Perhaps somebody can fill these gaps? Of course i gladly share everything i know, so all questions,comments and additions are welcome.
1983
Sneva winning #5T March83C (Bignotti-Cotter entered the Theodore under the #5/USAC #5).
Unser jr #19T March83C
Brabham 4th place #12 PC10 (It was the replacement car and never carried the "T". Paul jr destroyed the original #12/USAC #12 on may 13. Usually the USAC # is unique but in this case seems like USAC allowed to enter the replacement car under the same #. I`m not 100% sure.)
Rutherford #40T WildcatMkIX (Replacement chassis again. Rutherford destroyed this car on may 18 and broke his left foot. The third replacement Wildcat, Don Whittington crashed on may 20 carried the #40TT/50.
As well 5 cars did not pass the USAC technical inspection:
Alsup 11T PC9B
Fillip 38T WildcatMkVIII
Unser jr 19TT Eagle82 (The car he used during his ROP and at season opener Atlanta).
Tempero 15T BTR Bullet(modified Longhorn).
Schrader old #98 Kingfish, he used in the opening round of the Miller Pit Stop Contest.
1984
Brayton 37T March84C
Villeneuve 76T March83C (the car he crashed badly on may 17).
Ongais 25T March84C
Garza/Roger Mears 55T PC10
Holmes 41T March84C
Holbert 21T March82C
Andretti 3T LolaT800
All cars DNQ
1985
Guerrero 9T March85C
1990
Dobson 86T LolaT9000
Dacco/Groff/Vogler 50T LolaT8800
Foyt 14T Chevy engined March86C ?!
Moran 56T LolaT8800
Carter 29T LolaT8800
Brayton 22T LolaT9000
All cars DNQ