gentlemen races
#1
Posted 30 July 2008 - 12:39
Both wealth and with some talent as given us various drivers over the decades but I am not sure what we would regard as the genuine gentleman racer?
Alain De Cad springs to mind but ACDC always seem to arrive with plenty of decals on his mount therefore suggesting someone else was footing the bill hence more professional than gentleman (no desrespect Alain I still think you are a gentleman)!
Brett Lunger probably could have used his wealth to buy the complete pit lane but again always carried corporate logos on his various bodywork(the car not his)!
Thinking back to the heady days of sportscars and in particular the Chevron drivers and think Richard Simms just paid for his fun but feel Martin Raymond had backing from Fisons,alas both chaps no longer with us.
I worked with a French chap in the very early eighties called Francois Duret and again he appeared just to have money and enjoyed every outing in again a Chevron.
Dorset racing Organisation appeared to be a happy bunch of swift amateurs around the same period.
Bobby Howlings
Ray Calcutt
Val Mussetti
are other names who appeared to spend their pocket money on racing. in fact Val told me he would be embarrased to have to search for a budget to race so he spent his own dosh however appeared for a short time with the logo of some ice cream company on his march when I questioned this it was his uncles company and he wanted a photo of Val and car in his ice cream factory (or shop) so paid Val for the entry fee although Val told me he never received the money but never mind he liked ice cream!
Over to you lot for your opinions and offerings.
Rodney Dodson
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#2
Posted 30 July 2008 - 12:54
Originally posted by rdmotorsport
Both wealth and with some talent as given us various drivers over the decades but I am not sure what we would regard as the genuine gentleman racer?
Over to you lot for your opinions and offerings.
Rodney Dodson
Pop along to any British Hillclimb or British Sprint championship round to see genuine gentleman (and lady) racers. It does cost a lot of money to be competitive at this level when a set of tyres cost in excess of £1200.00 and at the sharp end of the hillclimb championship you need two sets per event!
It has always been the case that the competitors foot the bill at the grassroots yet the drivers in these two championships are extremely talented. Don't forget that not that long ago Andy Priaulx was winning the British Hillclimb Championship.
#3
Posted 30 July 2008 - 13:06
#4
Posted 30 July 2008 - 13:09
#5
Posted 30 July 2008 - 13:30
Originally posted by Odseybod
But I keep thinking back to Count Godin de Beaufort in the mid-60s, trailing round at the back of the F1 field in his outdated orange Porsche and thoroughly enjoying just taking part. To me, that's the mark of a true gentleman - but maybe I've read too much Dornford Yates?
See also Giovanni Lavaggi for Minardi and Pacific in the '90s.
-------------------------
Welsh Motor Sport History
#6
Posted 30 July 2008 - 15:33
#7
Posted 30 July 2008 - 17:09
Originally posted by rdmotorsport
Although it will never happen again but who in your opinion was the true "gentleman racer" in the ficticious mould of Lord Brett Sinclair?
Both wealth and with some talent as given us various drivers over the decades but I am not sure what we would regard as the genuine gentleman racer?
Over to you lot for your opinions and offerings.
Rodney Dodson
I'm not sure what to make of this . It's a bit nebulous to me what exactly a "gentleman racer" is , as some of the same ilk take it more seriously than others .
If it merely requires coming from a wealthy background , lots of drivers could qualify . Count Trossi , Giuseppe Farina , Piers Courage just to name a few . I think even ol' Gerhardt Berger's family had ample funds .
But looking at it as a fellow who has the cash but just likes to dabble around a bit Carel de Beaufort is a good example , as someone has mentioned already . I think Silvio Moser is another , and what's the name of the ABBA drummer ?
#8
Posted 30 July 2008 - 17:18
I always reckoned Jonah Mansel would probably have done a bit of racing in his time. (Sorry - very OT).Originally posted by Odseybod
... but maybe I've read too much Dornford Yates?
#9
Posted 30 July 2008 - 18:07
#10
Posted 30 July 2008 - 20:13
quote:Originally posted by Odseybod ... but maybe I've read too much Dornford Yates? I always reckoned Jonah Mansel would probably have done a bit of racing in his time. (Sorry - very OT).
Presumably in the Lowland rather than a Rolls. Captain Hugh Drummond was of course a Bentley man (sorry, now getting waaaaay OT).
#11
Posted 30 July 2008 - 20:34
Translate that into motor racing and yes, there's probably a distinction between aristocratic racers (who - shock horror- can turn out not to be afraid of hard work to raise the funds to support their talent, as mentioned) and those who, despite the lack of a hereditary title, display a properly gentlemanly approach while casually making the rest of the grid eat their dust - then smile rather apologetically on the podium. Sadly, I suspect the breed's extinct.
#12
Posted 30 July 2008 - 20:39
#13
Posted 31 July 2008 - 09:34
#14
Posted 31 July 2008 - 10:02
IF we are going down the privateer route - Don Shead and his son James were successful privateers in their Spice in successive years at Le Mans also Anthony Bamford, Tom Dodd-Noble, Colin Pool etc..
#15
Posted 31 July 2008 - 11:17
#16
Posted 31 July 2008 - 12:03
#17
Posted 31 July 2008 - 12:30
#18
Posted 31 July 2008 - 13:08
#19
Posted 31 July 2008 - 14:30
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#20
Posted 31 July 2008 - 15:29
#21
Posted 31 July 2008 - 16:34
Shattuc competed in 27 National Championship races between 1924 and '28, with a career best finish of 3rd, beating Harry Hartz and Pete de Paolo on the occasion! He also tried dirt track racing, finishing 4th at Denver (CO) in 1925. As I said, he was quite good... But the nicest thing about him, he really looked like a proper doc should look!
#22
Posted 31 July 2008 - 18:10
#23
Posted 31 July 2008 - 19:42
#24
Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:48
My definition of a gentleman racer is one of a wealthy amateur who, without outside financial support, is able to compete at high levels and who, unlike the England cricket team, is able to do so and enjoy a reasonable degree of success.
One such gentleman racer was the 4 times Australian Grand Prix winner A. N. (Lex) Davison.
In the period 1954 to 1965, against a background scenario in which factory built grand prix began to come Australia in ever-increasing numbers, Davison consistently maintained his presence at the top level of Australian motor racing. First with ex-Ascari Ferrari 500 GP car fitted with a 3.4 litre Monza engine then, in defiance of the dreaded mechanical mice or anti-climaxes as he disdainfully referred to the increasingly dominant Coopers, he campaigned two DBR250 GP cars fitted with 3 litre DBR1 engines, one of which just missed out on winning the 1960 AGO by 1/20th of a second. The classic Astons were followed bya series of 2.7/2.5 Coopers and finally, a 2.5 Brabham.
Unlike virtually all the other top australian drivers of the era, who were also wealthy amateurs, usually motor car traders from within the industry, Davison's personal wealth, derived from the family-owned high fashion women's shoe business, financed his racing activities - and despite his catholicism, his wealth, reputation and charm, ensured he was a respected member of the conservative Melbourne establishment of the era.
In a period when advertising on cars was forbidden and sponorship, save for some petrol and tyre company support was non-existent, Davison's immaculately turned out cars, complete with the ever-present BRDC badge and the driver's white Herbie Johnson helmet, were a constant force to be reckoned with, right up to the time of his unfortunate death at Sandown Park in 1965
During the time mentioned, Davison won the 1957 Gold Star (Australian Driver's Championship), four Australian GP's and numerous races around the country. He was a household name in this country when motor racing was still considered not "quite right."
In my book - truely a gentleman racer
Derek
#25
Posted 02 August 2008 - 15:05
#26
Posted 02 August 2008 - 21:35
Harry Schell
Briggs Cunningham
Lance Reventlow
Jack (just my signature....not a racer and some would argue not a gentleman).
Forgot to mention Masten Gregory
#27
Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:18
#28
Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:07
Neil Corner
Colin Crabbe
#29
Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:10
#30
Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:33
#31
Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:44
#32
Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:56
Ah! The ultimate gentleman, who even changed into a dinner jacket when driving an evening stint at Le Mans!Originally posted by ensign14
Rob Walker.
#33
Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:03
But, if this isn't a slightly disrespectful question, has anyone actually seen the passport where is occupation is, reputedly, given as 'gentleman'.
(So many myths have been bebunked by TNF over the years - I do hope that this one is shown to be true.)
#34
Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:12
#35
Posted 06 August 2008 - 14:16
Originally posted by Stephen W
It has always been the case that the competitors foot the bill at the grassroots yet the drivers in these two championships are extremely talented. Don't forget that not that long ago Andy Priaulx was winning the British Hillclimb Championship.
Arguably, Andy Priaulx's "maximum score" championship, in what was not the best car, rather put the abilities of the rest of the then British Hillclimb Championship regulars into perspective.
Its long been a source of anger that real grass roots competitors (in saloons etc.) in speed events at non-permanent venues equally foot the bill for safety infrastructure they dont need or which actually puts them at risk of greater damage in the event of an off...and these "gentlemen racers" gain.
#36
Posted 06 August 2008 - 14:49
There was an urban myth that Claude Loraine Barrow's life insurance company refused to pay up following his fatal accident in 1903, as his occupation was given as "gentleman", but that his estate successfully sued when it was argued that "racing motorist" was a proper pastime for a gentleman. I think that master of elegance William Court lanced that one. (The case, not that Mr Barrow was a gentleman.)
#37
Posted 06 August 2008 - 17:57