8 replies to this topic

[Russ Snyder]

For those TNF'ers that are curious about the DVD available "Motorsport memories 1906-46" ..I would rate it as a "buy" and enjoy!

I have been watching this DVD over the last few nights and they show a number of scenes from Indy 500's from 1925-35.

A few Highlites for those interested:

Peter De Paolo 1925 Indy - his car was one of the first, according to the narrator, to be supercharged. He was also the first winner to complete the race at over 100 mph.

Frank Lockhart - it shows from the air and ground his attempt at breaking the land speed record at Daytonna beach...and his subsequent crash and death on the beach. He reached approx 272 mph before flipping violently.

Les Spangler & GL "Monk" Jordan 1933 Indy - I did not know footage of this existed... You see a car spinning in distress as Spangler/Jordan's #15 attempts to get by on the high line of the track coming out of turn 1. Their left REAR wheel clips the the right front of the distressed car and they flip many times with both spilling out like rag dolls onto the track. Both died instantly. The narrator says over the crash "what a smash up"

Mark Billman & Elmer Lombard 1933 Indy - Another car is spinning in front of them as they exit turn 2, incredibly, Billman's car seems to skid to the left...the BACKS up over the wall. Billman pershied whilst Lombard was thrown clean of the accident and lived. The narrator says "some of these men walked away, some did not"

1936 Vanderbilt Cup - extensive footage of this race (approx 5 mins) is shown along with Wilbur Shaw and his infamous Indy 500 "Pay Car" hitting the wall on lap 2. Tazio Nuvolari is shown passing with ease such Indy legends as: Wild Bill Cummings, Mauri Rose, Jimmy Snyder & Ted Horn. In fairness to the Indy drivers, their cars were built for Oval racing whereas Nuvolari's was his standard Alpha that he drove on the grand prix circ's of 1936. Nuvolari's handling, breaking and speed outclassed the Indy rivals of that year, so much so, he was able to change all 12 spark plugs and still be 2 laps ahead!

Sir Malcom Campbell - shown racing on the Utah salt flats with his young son by his side, the narrator says that Campbell is traveling 5 miles per min, or approx 301 MPH!

Footage from the orginal Ascot (1920's?) with the narrator saying that this track was built for only one race and was patterned after Monza. Frank Lockhart is the winner.

1915's Vanderbilt cup is shown on a rainy San Francisco day with many turnovers and crashes.

Tacoma Park and the wooden tracks are given time....as well as many dirt track race's from 1910-1920. Mike/fines, I think these scenes may interest you, if you have not seen already? The narrator states: "speeds on the wooden tracks approach 130 mph and danger lurks at every turn" ...crashes a plenty. One car clears the track and lands in a tree before falling down in pieces!

Harry Hartz's crash and burn is shown, with the narrator saying "Hartz was lucky to escape certain death"

Jimmy Murphy winning the 1921 French GP is shown, as well Tommy Milton and Dario Resta winning races OTHER than the Indy 500!

For our European friends, the DVD also covers some early GP race's in France & at Brooklands.

Many scenes of airplane races, motorboat races and motorbike races and hill climbs are also shown.

This is not an add to buy the DVD.... Being a historian and finding other historians that enjoy racing on this forum, I thought I might recommend to you folks that thought about purchasing this DVD.

[fines]

Well, sounds interesting, even if that narrator appears to need a few lessons in the TNF History School

Where can one purchase said DVD?

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by fines
Well, sounds interesting, even if that narrator appears to need a few lessons in the TNF History School

Where can one purchase said DVD?

Mike - the DVD combines the 1937 (?) Thomson Valve film with a Champion Spark plug film (1946)

I'll pm you, and anyone else interested, the website with info.

Quality is superb considering the era.

what mistakes do you pick up from the Narrator? btw, Peter Depaolo is narrating part of the film....

The Ascot race they show is very strange compared to the wooden track footage, a GP course made of dirt apparently that particular Ascot track was. I dated it "1920" with question mark due to winner.

One thing I did not mention was the smashup on the backstretch out of turn 2 in the 1930 Indy 500. 6 cars were taken out with no major injuries, quite a wreck!

[fines]

Well, my main gripe is with the Ascot stuff: the "original" Ascot is in England! The original US Ascot was built in the 19th century, when Monza had but a royal park with trees and bushes, no racing track. Ascot was first used as an automobile racing track in 1912, I believe, and closed in early 1920 - building the Monza track wasn't even begun before 1922.

The second US Ascot opened in 1924 as a slightly banked five-eights-of-a-mile dirt track, and remained pretty much the same until it closed in early 1936. The surface was later oiled to make it slick as pavement, and for five months in the summer and fall of 1935 the track was rebuilt as a flat half-mile, but else it was always the same. Monza, on the other hand, was a 10-km artificial road course combined with a super speedway, and track surface was pavement right from the start, bitumen and concrete iirc. This is not the difference between Mars and Venus, or apples and pears, but between Mars and pears!

Now, your footage was probably from one of the "Targa Florio" races at and around the second Ascot oval, one of which was indeed won by Lockhart, although I do recall a protest and I was never quite clear about the outcome. Anyway, the whole thing was a scam by "master promoter" Bill Pickens anyway, and most of the HUGE purse was never paid! The track wound circa 1.5 miles around and above a small hill overlooking the oval, complete with bridge and underpass! It was all dirt surface, and incorporated a very steep climb (or was that the second version, used about ten years later?), and the promotion claimed it was "patterned after the Targa Florio in Italy" - a complete and utter joke!

Anyway, that's probably the source for the confusion: a skimpy promotional claim of a bygone era, carelessly repeated with some detail (!) changes...

Oh, and two things:

• don't PM me, doesn't work - use e-mail
• it's Michael, please - I'm not a microphone ;)

[Russ Snyder]

Ok Michael ...you got it...just never call me Russell ;-)..not that you did, but I always prefer the shortened Russ to go with my shortened height. lol

Bingo! you described what I see as far as 'Ascot' and the track on this film. A bridge/overpass indeed! It looked incredibly wound up upon itself, if I could describe it like that???...and thanks for filling in that bit o history that the film neglects.

[fines]

Ahh, that's it, then! I am 6 ft 7, so "Mike" is much too short!!!

And yes, the first Ascot Targa Florio course was a very "intricate" affair, for want of a better word. Somewhere I've seen a track map, or perhaps an aerial picture, but for the life of me... you see, touring car races just do not float my boat!;)

The later Ascot Targa Florio course, used in the AAA races in the thirties, was much shorter, and a track map of that is in the Legion Ascot Speedway howler by John Lucero.

[Russ Snyder]

As Monty Python would say "I didn't expect a spanish inquizition"..."no one expects the...."

Seriously tho Michael ....classic racing rocks!


I had an idea of the horrendous quality and conditions of some of those old horse tracks in America, but oil + dirt does not equal a good smooth ride! I am clueless on how some of our hero's from the day were even able to get through a race...albeit the speeds were less, but the tires????? Tires seemed to be the main problem for racing from its infancy up till about 1925 when the Balloon tire was developed. (hint Nascar and the Brickyard 400, you might learn something)...


speaking of....I could start yet another thread on the 2008 debacle known as "the 10 lap caution race of 2008"...but why bother?...how could they develope tires to withstand an entire Indy race in 1964, but by 2008, the Nascar boys can't go more than 11 laps until the tires shredded! That race was one of the worst to watch that I have seen in years. Indy deserved better.

*jumps off soapbox*

...back to classic racing.


Michael - in the Louie Meyer thread, I thought it was the 1926 Indy 500 that he and Wilbur ran at the Indy with the Jynx special as Mechanic/driver. John mentioned the 1927 Indy. W/o my trusty Jack Fox 66 edition by my side, could you verify please? My Jack Fox book is at Moms and I won't see her till this weekend. Its been gnawing at my craw (bothering the brain for the non-midwest folks)

[fines]

WOT? You're doubting info by John Glenn Printz??? WHO ARE YOU????

Move back ten positions on the board, and sit out the next three rounds!! You failed your examn BIG TIME!!!












It WAS 1927!

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by fines
WOT? You're doubting info by John Glenn Printz??? WHO ARE YOU????

Move back ten positions on the board, and sit out the next three rounds!! You failed your examn BIG TIME!!!












It WAS 1927!

thanks for the laugh.

however, I would question Jesus H Christ if I could. no one is perfect and mistakes do happen.

Classic racing rocks.