Caracciola at Zbraslav Jiloviste
#1
Posted 08 August 2008 - 21:14
I have seen other pictures from the 1930 event and Caracciola’s Mercedes SSK features mudguards, inward facing headlights and race number 144. (‘Silberpfeile’ published by Heel, page 27 & ‘M-B Quicksilver Century’ by Ludvigsen, page 125). In this configuration he was competing in the sports car class.
I suspect the Schrader/Demand photo is from 1929 when Caracciola competed in the racing class. In which case it looks like the caption misquoted the year. I am hoping that the caption is correct as regards Zbraslav Jiloviste.
Can anyone verify this?
PS - I would attach a copy of the photo in question if I knew how!!!
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#2
Posted 09 August 2008 - 00:15
http://www.cohascodp...oductory_4.html
I also have "A Racing Car Driver's World" by Caracciola, which has statistical info on both events (though no photos or car numbers).
Vince H.
#3
Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:14
1. Rudolf Caracciola - Mercedes-Benz Type SS - 2.57,2 (new class record)
2. Otto Spandel - Mercedes-Benz - 3.20,5
"Motor und Sport" has a close-up photo of Caracciola, but his start number is not visible.
#4
Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:55
The results for 1930 also indicate that Caracciola was the current record holder in the racing car class up to 8000cc, with a time of 2.49,2 - presumably set the year before.
Graf Arco-Zinneberg won this class in 1930 with a time of 2.56,6 with a Mercedes-Benz, carrying start number 159 as shown by a photograph.
Let's face it: if Caracciola had participated in the racing car class with a Type-SSK, he would probably have won, or at the very least it would have been mentioned in the article.
#5
Posted 09 August 2008 - 11:35
Martin Pfundner, „Vom Semmering zum Grand Prix“ (2003), p. 171, about 1930:Hauptattraktion war der Zweikampf zwischen „Bergmeister“ Hans Stuck auf dem 3614-ccm-Austro-Daimler und Rudolf Caracciola mit dem 7020-ccm-SSK von Mercedes, und es war Stuck, der mit 2’45,8“ gegen Caracciola (2’49,2“) gewann.
Tragatsch, p. 118, about 1930:Die Saison begann mit dem Prager Bergrennen Königsaal-Jilowischt ( Zbraslav-Jílovištĕ ), wo Hans Stuck auf dem Austro-Daimler-Rennwagen mit Vierlitermotor seinen eigenen Vorjahrsrekord um eine Zehntelsekunde auf 2’45,7“ verbesserte. Zweiter wurde Henryk Liefeldt (Austro-Daimler, 2’49,8“) vor dem Sportwagensieger Rudi Caracciola (Mercedes SSK, 2’52,7“) und dem Ungarn László Hartmann (2,3-Liter-Bugatti-Rennwagen, ex-Zichy, 2’55,5“).
Die 8000-ccm-Rennwagen-Klasse […] gewann Max Graf Arco-Zinneberg mit seinem Mercedes SSK in 2’55,6“, erzielte aber nicht die 1929 von Rudolf Caracciola auf einem SSK gefahrene Zeit von 2’49,2“. In der 3000-ccm-Rennwagen-Klasse gab es den Überraschungssieg des Ungarn Lászlo Hartmann, der mit dem Bugatti 35B 2’55,5“ fuhr und damit H.J. von Morgen auf einem gleichen Wagen, der „nur“ 2’56,5“ erzielte, schlug. […] Rudolf Caracciola fuhr 1930 den Mercedes SSK in der Sportwagenklasse, schaffte die Strecke in 2’52,7“ und war natürlich hier der schnellste Fahrer, dem der Zweite, Otto Spandel mit einem Mercedes SS, nicht gefährlich werden konnte.
#6
Posted 09 August 2008 - 12:04
Perhaps Hans Etzroth has some further sources that can settle what type of car Caracciola drove?
#7
Posted 09 August 2008 - 20:23
DCN
#8
Posted 09 August 2008 - 20:46
The course measured 5.6 km and climbed 3.5% on average, with the steepest bit of 9.5% just before the finish. There was a tricky corner in the town of Bano halfway the climb.
Incidentally, promising German motorcycle rider Karl Stegmann was killed during practice for the 1930 event. He held the motorcycle record at the Zbraslav-Jiloviste hilllimb.
Simon, or anyone else, if you are interested in the article, I'd be more than happy to send it to you.
#9
Posted 10 August 2008 - 08:06
GEL has a map of the course:
From: http://www.silhouet....s/centrahc.html
#10
Posted 10 August 2008 - 11:13
3m13.4s - Otto Salzer (Mercedes 2.0 1923 Indy) racecar class, FTD
3m49.0s - Rosenberger (Mercedes 1500 cc S) - racecar class up to 1.5 liter, 1st in class
3m57.6s - Caracciola (Mercedes 1500 cc S) - touring car class up to 1.75 liter, 1st in class, new record, no start # found
AAZ(D) times are incorrect, MOTOR times are more accurate.
April 28, 1929 - Zbraslav-Jiloviste
2m45.8s - Stuck (Austro-Daimler ADM-R 3.0 R) racecar class, FTD
2m57.5s - Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz SSK) white body/chasis stripped down, start #72
Racecar class up to 8000 cc, 1st in class
MAY 11, 1930 - Zbraslav-Jiloviste
2m45.7s - Stuck (Austro-Daimler ADM-R 3.6 R) – racecar class, FTD
2m52.7s - Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz SSK) white body/chasis, red fenders - sports car class, start #144
Sports car class up to 8000 cc, 1st in class, fastest sports car
May 31, 1931 - Zbraslav-Jiloviste
2m42.84s - Stuck (Mercedes-Benz SSKL) racecar class up to 8000 cc
2m43.86s - von Morgen (Bugatti T35B)
2m42.73s - Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz SSKL) white body/chassis, red fenders - sports car class, start #149
Sports car class up to 8000 cc, 1st in class, fastest sports car, FTD
#11
Posted 10 August 2008 - 20:30
AAZ(D) #17 p34 – April 26, 1924Originally posted by Simon Davis
...1924
So was AAZ (D) incorrect in its report from 26th April 1924 (Nr 17)? As well as showing Rosenberger winning the 1.5 litre racing class (3m 49s) it also shows him winning the 1.75 litre Touring class (3m 48s). Does the MOTOR report clarify this point?...
Up to 1.75-liter touring cars:
1. - Rosenberger (Mercedes) 3m48s
2. – Caracciola (Mercedes) 3m50s
Up to 1.5-liter Racecars:
1. – Rosenberger (Mercedes) 3m49s
MOTOR – May 1924, #5 p128
Up to 1.75-liter touring cars:
1. - Caracciola (Mercedes) 3m57.6s
2. – Loge (Aga) 4m09.9s
3. – Lhatta (Walter) 4m12.7s
Up to 1.5-liter Racecars:
1. – Rosenberger (Mercedes) 3m49s
AAZ(A) #9 p31 – May 1, 1924
Up to 1.75-liter touring cars:
1. - Caracciola (Mercedes) 3m57.6s
2. – Loge (Aga) 4m09.9s
3. – Lhota (Walter) 4m12.7s
Up to 1.5-liter Racecars:
1. – Rosenberger (Mercedes) 3m49s
2. – Havel (Fiat) 4m11.4s
3. – Kern (Wolseley) 5m04.3s
AUTOMOBIL-REVUE #20 p38 – May 9, 1924
Up to 1.75-liter touring cars:
1. - Caracciola (Mercedes) 3m57.6s
2. – Loge (Aga) 4m09s
Up to 1.5-liter Racecars:
1. – Rosenberger (Mercedes) 3m49.5s
2. – Havel (Fiat) 4m11.4s
#12
Posted 10 August 2008 - 23:17
2m 57.5s??? appears to be a mistake.Originally posted by Simon Davis
...1929
2m 57.5s??? What is the source of this time? It contradicts the MotorUndSport 1930 report that Rob kindly sent me (it states that the 1929 8 litre racing car record of Caracciola was 2m 49.2s. A Racing Driver's World also states 2m 49.2s.
AAZ(D) #18 p28 – May 4, 1929
1. – Stuck
2. – Caracciola (Mercedes) 2m51s
MOTOR #5 p32 – May 1929
1. – Stuck (Austro Daimler) 2m45.8
2. – Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz) 2m49.2s
AAZ(A) #10 p19 – May 4, 1929
1. – Stuck (Austro Daimler) 2m45.8
2. – Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz) 2m49.2s
AUTOMOBIL-REVUE #39 p2 – May 1, 1929
1. – Stuck (Austro Daimler) 2m45.8
2. – Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz) 2m57.5s
AZ-Motorwelt #12 p6 – May 4, 1929
1. – Stuck (Austro Daimler) 2m45.8 – racecars up to 5000 cc
2. – Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz) 2m49.2s – racecars up to 8000 cc
#13
Posted 11 August 2008 - 12:30
No 96 s.6 (23.04.1924) :
Touring car bis 1.75 liter
1 - Caracciola (Mercedes) 3m57,6s
Racing car bis 1.5 liter
1 - Rosenberger (Mercedes) 3m49s
No 102 s.9 (30.04.1929) :
Racing car bis 8000 ccm
1 - Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz) 2m49,2s