Jump to content


Photo

1972 Japanese F2 Grand Prix


  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#1 Eshe

Eshe
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 17 August 2008 - 08:52

Noting that a number of Australian drivers raced at the Japanese F2 GP at Fuij in May 1972, does anyone have any photos from that meeting that they could share. (Ray, did you attend the meeting?) Specifically I am seeking pics of Leo Geoghegan in the Elfin Waggott, but other competitors included Bob Muir and Max Stewart, both in Mildren Waggotts.

Advertisement

#2 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 19 August 2008 - 17:18

Front page of the programme ( obviously the cover photo was taken from the previous year's race ) :

Posted Image

Entry list for GP1 & GP2 classes:

Posted Image

I have race reports for this event too. I'll see what I can find for you.

#3 Leo D

Leo D
  • Member

  • 420 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 20 August 2008 - 03:51

Interesting to see Leo Geoghegan listed as running an Elfin.

My memories are of him running the Lotus and then the Biranna....

Can someone fill me in on the Elfin?

#4 Eshe

Eshe
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 20 August 2008 - 09:55

Originally posted by Leo D
Interesting to see Leo Geoghegan listed as running an Elfin.

My memories are of him running the Lotus and then the Biranna....

Can someone fill me in on the Elfin?


Leo D, Leo Geoghegan drove an Elfin 600B (owned by Gary Campbell) that was transported from Australia for the event.

PS30-SB, thanks for posting the program cover and entry list. If the race report is available, I'd be most appreciative.

#5 humphries

humphries
  • Member

  • 918 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 21 August 2008 - 13:31

PS30-SB

Would it be possible for you to transcribe the Japanese names into English? Thanks in advance.

John

#6 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,366 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 21 August 2008 - 13:40

Would Robert Ryan Brown be Bobby Brown. Nick Craw is the former SCCA President and the ACCUS/FIA rep for North America.

#7 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 21 August 2008 - 14:35

Bobby Brown raced an Opert Chevron B20 in Japan in 1972 so I guess that's him :)

#8 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 21 August 2008 - 15:12

Originally posted by humphries
PS30-SB

Would it be possible for you to transcribe the Japanese names into English? Thanks in advance.

John

May I?;)

#14 Kunio Murata
#9 Hiromu Tanaka
#10 Norimitsu Urushibara
#11 Noritake Takahara
#18 Hiroshi Fushida
#15 Jiro Yoneyama

#9 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 21 August 2008 - 16:50

Good job fines, except:

Originally posted by fines
#10 Norimitsu Urushibara


That should be Urushihara. A midfield, underachieving, spectacle-in-helmet-wearing, head-tilting hero of mine. Japanese names are particularly difficult.......

I've pulled out relevant issues of Auto Sport Japan and Auto Technic - both with good race reports - and will post details later.

#10 humphries

humphries
  • Member

  • 918 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 21 August 2008 - 17:52

Thanks both - and the Japanese Cars!!!

#11 Sergio Sultani

Sergio Sultani
  • Member

  • 140 posts
  • Joined: January 06

Posted 21 August 2008 - 20:02

Hi.

The results of it: http://www.formula2.net/F272_6.htm

Best wishes,
Sergio Sultani.

#12 humphries

humphries
  • Member

  • 918 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 22 August 2008 - 08:30

Thanks Sergio

It was just number 14 that I really wanted clarifying. PS30-SB provided the driver. The type of Lotus anyone?

John

#13 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 August 2008 - 10:39

Originally posted by humphries
It was just number 14 that I really wanted clarifying. PS30-SB provided the driver. The type of Lotus anyone?


John,
Murata's car was described as a 'Lotus 41' and a 'Lotus F2' in the Japanese magazine reports. It was fitted with a 1598cc Lotus twin cam.

Here's the data page of the report in the 15th June dated issue of Auto Sport:

Posted Image

Some car photos to follow if Imageshack behaves itself long enough....

#14 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 August 2008 - 11:16

Eshe,
I'm afraid there are not many photos of Geoghegan's car in these reports. These are the best I can do for now:

Posted Image

Posted Image

( clickable thumbnails )

#15 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 August 2008 - 11:34

All clickable thumbnails. Car numbers should speak for themselves I hope:

Posted Image

( *CAPTION CORRECTION* ) Retirement for no.6:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Car no.10:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#16 Team Result

Team Result
  • Member

  • 205 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:47

Originally posted by Eshe


Leo D, Leo Geoghegan drove an Elfin 600B (owned by Gary Campbell) that was transported from Australia for the event.

PS30-SB, thanks for posting the program cover and entry list. If the race report is available, I'd be most appreciative.


I also thought it strange seeing the Elfin listed for diehard Lotus driver (and agent), Leo.
I wonder how that came about. IIRC, Gary Campbell was a reasonable driver in his own right (Formula Vee through to Lola T300), so why did he stand aside for Leo and where was Leo's 59? And where did the Waggott engine
come from? Leo's 59? The full-width nose Elfin 600s were also not so common. Would this be a 600E model?
Lots of questions, I know!
:confused:
One more and I'll sit down.

The F2 register lists the reason for Leo's retirement as 'timing gear', however the lap chart from Autosport says 'out of fuel'. The photo caption also says 'out of fuel' (gasu ketsu in Japanese), but then lists the car as a Mildren Waggott, by mistake. So, is the truth out there?....Cue, X-file soundtrack

#17 Eshe

Eshe
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:50

Originally posted by PS30-SB
Eshe,
I'm afraid there are not many photos of Geoghegan's car in these reports. These are the best I can do for now:

Posted Image

Posted Image

( clickable thumbnails )


PS30-SB, thank you, these photos are excellent. I had no idea that this Elfin 600B had been fitted with a different style nose and wing to the factory standard. Fantastic help, thank you very much! :clap: If you ever happen across any other pictures of the car, I would be most grateful...only a handful of 600B's ever went to race outside of Australia and it is great to see pictures of this one in action in Japan.

#18 Eshe

Eshe
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 22 August 2008 - 13:08

Originally posted by Team Result


I also thought it strange seeing the Elfin listed for diehard Lotus driver (and agent), Leo.
I wonder how that came about. IIRC, Gary Campbell was a reasonable driver in his own right (Formula Vee through to Lola T300), so why did he stand aside for Leo and where was Leo's 59? And where did the Waggott engine
come from? Leo's 59? The full-width nose Elfin 600s were also not so common. Would this be a 600E model?
Lots of questions, I know!
:confused:
One more and I'll sit down.

The F2 register lists the reason for Leo's retirement as 'timing gear', however the lap chart from Autosport says 'out of fuel'. The photo caption also says 'out of fuel' (gasu ketsu in Japanese), but then lists the car as a Mildren Waggott, by mistake. So, is the truth out there?....Cue, X-file soundtrack


Team Result, from what I understand Gary Campbell supplied the car which was probably already 600E spec by that time but I have never seen that body on the car before. The 600E spec related to the alloy front uprights and revised geometry, but not the bodywork. Leo Geoghegan supplied the Waggott engine and Ian Analzark engineered it for the event. I believe that 'timing gear' was the retirement issue. As to how the whole deal between Leo and Gary came into being, I do not know - yet.

#19 Leo D

Leo D
  • Member

  • 420 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 22 August 2008 - 13:19

Originally posted by Team Result


I also thought it strange seeing the Elfin listed for diehard Lotus driver (and agent), Leo.
I wonder how that came about. IIRC, Gary Campbell was a reasonable driver in his own right (Formula Vee through to Lola T300), so why did he stand aside for Leo and where was Leo's 59? And where did the Waggott engine
come from? Leo's 59? The full-width nose Elfin 600s were also not so common. Would this be a 600E model?
Lots of questions, I know!
:confused:
One more and I'll sit down.

The F2 register lists the reason for Leo's retirement as 'timing gear', however the lap chart from Autosport says 'out of fuel'. The photo caption also says 'out of fuel' (gasu ketsu in Japanese), but then lists the car as a Mildren Waggott, by mistake. So, is the truth out there?....Cue, X-file soundtrack


From memory (and I stand to be corrected here) Max Stewart, Bob Muir and Gary Campbell were running F5000 in Australia by the time this race was run. Stewart in an Elfin MR5 Muir & Campbell in Lola T300's.

I'm sure Gary Campbell ran the Waggot powered Elfin at least one of the Tasman Rounds here (Australia), but ended running the series in the ex Frank Gardiner Lola T300. I'm not sure if the Muir Lola T300 was the car that Niel Allen purchased but never raced.

The cars that Muir and Stewart were driving in Japan were the ex Mildren Team cars as far as I know....Since they were now in F5000 perhaps the cars were taken there in the hope of selling them? The same situation may have been the case for the Campbell Elfin, now that he was Lola T300 mounted.

Could it be that Leo Geoghegan was invited back to compete given that he was a previous winner, but didn't have a car....thus the Gary Campbell Elfin Waggot...

I could be way of the mark with this though..... others may have some thoughts...

Advertisement

#20 Eshe

Eshe
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 22 August 2008 - 13:37

Originally posted by Leo D


From memory (and I stand to be corrected here) Max Stewart, Bob Muir and Gary Campbell were running F5000 in Australia by the time this race was run. Stewart in an Elfin MR5 Muir & Campbell in Lola T300's.

I'm sure Gary Campbell ran the Waggot powered Elfin at least one of the Tasman Rounds here (Australia), but ended running the series in the ex Frank Gardiner Lola T300. I'm not sure if the Muir Lola T300 was the car that Niel Allen purchased but never raced.

The cars that Muir and Stewart were driving in Japan were the ex Mildren Team cars as far as I know....Since they were now in F5000 perhaps the cars were taken there in the hope of selling them? The same situation may have been the case for the Campbell Elfin, now that he was Lola T300 mounted.

Could it be that Leo Geoghegan was invited back to compete given that he was a previous winner, but didn't have a car....thus the Gary Campbell Elfin Waggot...

I could be way of the mark with this though..... others may have some thoughts...


Leo D, that sounds very logical reasoning to me. I know that Gary Campbell ran the 1971 and 1972 Australian Grand Prix in the car, all the records show it as being Waggott powered for both these events. The car did also score points - or at least a point - in a Tasman round.

When Larry Perkins won the 1972 Aust F2 Championship in it, it was in Lotus twin cam spec. There is some suggestion that Muir also had something to do with the Elfin after Campbell sold it.

#21 Team Result

Team Result
  • Member

  • 205 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 22 August 2008 - 13:51

Originally posted by Eshe


Leo D, that sounds very logical reasoning to me. I know that Gary Campbell ran the 1971 and 1972 Australian Grand Prix in the car, all the records show it as being Waggott powered for both these events. The car did also score points - or at least a point - in a Tasman round.

When Larry Perkins won the 1972 Aust F2 Championship in it, it was in Lotus twin cam spec. There is some suggestion that Muir also had something to do with the Elfin after Campbell sold it.


I concur. Checking the Dawson-Damer Collection thread I read that Leo sold the 59 minus engine to Bob Johns
after running only the Warwick Farm round of the 1971 Tasman Series. So perhaps part of the sale/lease of the engine to Campbell was a drive in Japan for Leo who hadn't quite retired from openwheelers, yet?!
Also, as Leo D points out, as a former winner of the Japan GP Leo would have received a nice invitation ($) to compete there.



Ross Burbidge

#22 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 22 August 2008 - 14:58

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Brilliant stuff! Thanks everybody, especially PS30-SB!!

#23 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,822 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 22 August 2008 - 22:13

Fantastic! All sorts of puzzles solved by these photos and results.

Allen

#24 Team Result

Team Result
  • Member

  • 205 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 00:06

PS30-SB, thanks very much for posting those photos.
They really helped get my brain cells working!
I noticed, for instance, that the pic you labelled ' retirement for car 7' is actually Max Stewart, Car 6. The yellow Mildren Team livery can be partly seen as can the lanky "Jolly Green Giant" climbing out of the car. I am trying to visualise where that shot was taken. The left hander at the end of the back straight, before the long right (spoon) curve? BTW, in the grid shot the blue sign visible on Max's car is undoubtedly a Seiko logo, main sponsor of his Lola F5000 at the time and a good reason for him to be racing in Japan.
However, I'm mostly intrigued by Leo Geoghegan's unusual appearance in the Elfin at that race and, thanks to Eshe and Leo D,now have a better appreciation of the circumstances that led to that arrangement.
The car itself is also a little unusual. What is that appendage on the bodywork in front of the cockpit? Some sort of wind deflector for the driver? IIRC, Gary Campbell's cars were predominantly red, but are the strobe-like white marks on the nose part of 'his' livery? I can't recognise any of the sponsor stickers on the car, either. Also, the no 7 written in French style would not have been CAMS approved in Australia. Perhaps the Organisers were trying to Europeanise their race or the Elfin had arrived with No 1 (for the Australian champion) on it and this was a hurried alteration!

#25 lil'chris

lil'chris
  • Member

  • 512 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 01:23

Is it correct that the race was run anti-clockwise - as seems to be the case according to the map ?

#26 Eshe

Eshe
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 23 August 2008 - 01:59

Originally posted by Team Result
PS30-SB, thanks very much for posting those photos.
They really helped get my brain cells working!
However, I'm mostly intrigued by Leo Geoghegan's unusual appearance in the Elfin at that race and, thanks to Eshe and Leo D,now have a better appreciation of the circumstances that led to that arrangement.
The car itself is also a little unusual. What is that appendage on the bodywork in front of the cockpit? Some sort of wind deflector for the driver? IIRC, Gary Campbell's cars were predominantly red, but are the strobe-like white marks on the nose part of 'his' livery? I can't recognise any of the sponsor stickers on the car, either. Also, the no 7 written in French style would not have been CAMS approved in Australia. Perhaps the Organisers were trying to Europeanise their race or the Elfin had arrived with No 1 (for the Australian champion) on it and this was a hurried alteration!


Team Result, I suggest the sponsor stickers across the nose are the Provincial Motors logo - a hot air balloon with stylised Provisional Motors text. Each of Gary's open wheelers had a form of the "strobe" pattern on the nose, makes him easy to find in any photos. I don't know where his T300 is these days but the 600B still has them on. Geoghegan isn't using a standard Elfin rear wing either in that event, maybe it came from one of Leo's cars too. As an aside, the Waggott used in the car in the AGP was the Glyn Scott motor IIRC.

#27 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 07:17

Originally posted by lil'chris
Is it correct that the race was run anti-clockwise - as seems to be the case according to the map ?

Yes. Until 1974 (?), all races at Fuji were run anti-clockwise.

#28 eldougo

eldougo
  • Member

  • 6,022 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 23 August 2008 - 10:11

I am sure Gary Cambell run the Elfin at Warwick Farm Tasman round, what year ?

And the pic of Max up the bank was round the back into the only right hand corner he was taken out by a back marker.

#29 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 10:19

Originally posted by Team Result
I noticed, for instance, that the pic you labelled ' retirement for car 7' is actually Max Stewart, Car 6. The yellow Mildren Team livery can be partly seen as can the lanky "Jolly Green Giant" climbing out of the car. I am trying to visualise where that shot was taken. The left hander at the end of the back straight, before the long right (spoon) curve?


Yes, you are quite right. I mis-captioned the photo in my haste ( apologies everyone ) and have now corrected the caption but not the photo file's number - so please be careful of that if you 'Right-Click And Save'.

You might well be right about where Stewart ended up. The long left-hander '150R' ( when running anti-clockwise ) had that steep grassy bank with advertising banners, whereas the second part of that semi-circle called '250R' had a less steep run-off. Alternatively, it could be the outside of the hairpin '30R'. As far as I can see in the reports, they don't mention the actual position where Stewart 'parked' it......

( edit: eldougo confirms it was the outside of '30R' hairpin ).

#30 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 10:34

Originally posted by fines

Yes. Until 1974 (?), all races at Fuji were run anti-clockwise.


No, on the contrary. The huge majority of races before then were run clockwise, and included the banked section. Anti-clockwise running was usually in order to miss out the banked section, but after the disuse of the banked section it was possible to run clockwise easily due to a small addition. But all-in-all, clockwise running has always been more common.

This little graphic might help to explain the section ( including the famed banking ) that this particular race missed out:

Posted Image

#31 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 10:53

A few more:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#32 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,822 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 11:34

Among the many interesting facts here:

* Nick Craw entered in a 2-litre Brabham BT38-BDA but listed on the data page in a 1.6-litre Chevron B18-FVA. Opert had B18s to spare and fitting a FVA wouldn't be a major issue. Also, Opert later advertises Craw's BT38 as 'raced only twice' which wouldn't be right if he'd raced it in Japan.

* Bob Brown entered in a 2-litre Chevron B20 but listed on the data page in a 1.8-litre B20-FVC. Again, this seems more likely than Opert being able to source a full 2-litre BDA.

* Riki Okubo's Brabham-Alfa revealed to be a BT16.

* Hiroshi Fushida's Brabham-Colt listed as - and looking like - a BT36 instead of a BT30.

It makes complete sense for Leo Geoghegan's car to be Campbell's. it was the only 2-litre Elfin-Waggott racing in 1972.

Is there any mention in the reports of what happened to McConnell and the GRD?

Allen

#33 Leo D

Leo D
  • Member

  • 420 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 23 August 2008 - 11:44

Originally posted by eldougo
I am sure Gary Cambell run the Elfin at Warwick Farm Tasman round, what year ?

And the pic of Max up the bank was round the back into the only right hand corner he was taken out by a back marker.


That'd be 1972 as far as I know Eldougo. I mentioned this in an earlier post. He drove the Elfin for all of the Australian Rounds, except for the last in Adelaide, where he drove the ex Frank Gardiner Lola T300.

#34 ReWind

ReWind
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 23 August 2008 - 15:31

I tried to put everything we know (or conclude) into the following table:
Pos		   Car Engine		  #		Driver		Age Nat laps time	  Q-Time Grid

 1   Surtees TS10 2.0 Ford BDA	5	  John Surtees	 38 Eng 50 1:08.37,08  1.19,3   4

 2	  March 722 2.0 Mitsubishi  9	Hiromu Tanaka	 c25 Jpn 50 1:09.02,28  1.18,8   2

 3   Brabham BT36 2.0 Mitsubishi 18   Hiroshi Fushida	 26 Jpn 50 1:09.17,27  1.18,8   3

 4	   Lotus 69 2.0 Mitsubishi 10 Norimitsu Urushihara c28 Jpn 49 1:08.47,68  1.20,5   5

 5   Brabham BT38 1.6 Ford FVA	1	  Nick Craw		35 USA 46 1:09.11,64  1.20,7   7

 6	Chevron B20 1.8 Ford FVC	2	   Bob Brown	   32 USA 45 ?		   1.22,8  11

 7		Mildren 2.0 Waggott	 8	   Bob Muir		32 Aus 43 1:08.54,29  1.22,4  10

 8   Brabham BT16 1.6 Alfa Romeo 12	  Riki Ohkubo	 c32 Jpn 43 1:09.18,24	   ?   ?

Ret	Elfin 600B 2.0 Waggott	 7	   Leo Geoghegan  c35 Aus 41 fuel		1.21,9   9

Ret  Brabham BT36 2.0 Mitsubishi 11  Noritake Takahara	20 Jpn 38 ?		   1.18,8 Pole

Ret	  Lotus 41 1.6 Lotus	  14	 Kunio Murata	 c27 Jpn 29 ?				?   ?

Ret	   Mildren 2.0 Waggott	 6	   Max Stewart	 37 Aus 16 accident	1.21,0   8

Ret	   Mana 08 1.8 Ford FVC   15	  Jiro Yoneyama	27 Jpn  1 ?				?   ?

dns	   GRD 272 2.0 Ford BDA	3	  Dave McConnell  c27 Can				1.20,5   6
The qualifying times and starting grid positions are taken from Sheldon's Black Book.
But I'm afraid they do not match with the picture showing the start of the race.

EDIT: For corrected data see post # 39!

#35 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,822 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 15:46

Almost right. Craw's car was a Chevron B18 according to the data page, not a Brabham BT38.

#36 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 16:03

I would have thought you've aged Dave McConnell by about five years, RW, but am not certain
And where are the chassis numbers? :lol:

#37 ReWind

ReWind
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 23 August 2008 - 16:40

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Almost right. Craw's car was a Chevron B18 according to the data page, not a Brabham BT38.

Well, we don't know yet, do we? Unfortunately we have no photo of car # 1.

Originally posted by David McKinney
I would have thought you've aged Dave McConnell by about five years, RW, but am not certain

I don't know his birth date. I took his age from the entry list in post # 2.

#38 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,822 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 17:11

Originally posted by ReWind
Well, we don't know yet, do we? Unfortunately we have no photo of car #1

True, but I'd trust a data page (wriiten after the event) more than an entry list (written before), especially given the supporting evidence of Fred Opert's subsequent advert for the BT38.

Allen

#39 ReWind

ReWind
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 23 August 2008 - 17:39

You convinced me. So the table looks like this (without dubious grid times & positions).
Pos		   Car Engine		  #		Driver		Age Nat laps time

 1   Surtees TS10 2.0 Ford BDA	5	  John Surtees	 38 Eng 50 1:08.37,08

 2	  March 722 2.0 Mitsubishi  9	Hiromu Tanaka	 c25 Jpn 50 1:09.02,28

 3   Brabham BT36 2.0 Mitsubishi 18   Hiroshi Fushida	 26 Jpn 50 1:09.17,27

 4	   Lotus 69 2.0 Mitsubishi 10 Norimitsu Urushihara c28 Jpn 49 1:08.47,68

 5	Chevron B18 1.6 Ford FVA	1	  Nick Craw		35 USA 46 1:09.11,64

 6	Chevron B20 1.8 Ford FVC	2	   Bob Brown	   32 USA 45 not running at finish

 7		Mildren 2.0 Waggott	 8	   Bob Muir		32 Aus 43 1:08.54,29

 8   Brabham BT16 1.6 Alfa Romeo 12	  Riki Ohkubo	 c32 Jpn 43 1:09.18,24

Ret	Elfin 600B 2.0 Waggott	 7	   Leo Geoghegan  c35 Aus 41 out of fuel

Ret  Brabham BT36 2.0 Mitsubishi 11  Noritake Takahara	20 Jpn 38 tyre burst

Ret	  Lotus 41 1.6 Lotus	  14	 Kunio Murata	 c27 Jpn 29 ?

Ret	   Mildren 2.0 Waggott	 6	   Max Stewart	 37 Aus 16 accident

Ret	   Mana 08 1.8 Ford FVC   15	  Jiro Yoneyama	27 Jpn  1 clutch

 ?		GRD 272 2.0 Ford BDA	3	  Dave McConnell  c27 Can
I would like to know what the data page says about the race result of Bob Brown. Looking at the lap chart it seems he wasn't running at the finish (after losing a place and then a full lap to Nick Craw).

Advertisement

#40 Vicuna

Vicuna
  • Member

  • 1,588 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 23 August 2008 - 17:49

Would this have been Big John's last win?

#41 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 13,848 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 23 August 2008 - 18:18

Originally posted by Vicuna
Would this have been Big John's last win?

No, he won (on aggregate) the F2 race at Imola on 23 July 1972 (the Japanese GP having been in May).

#42 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 19:48

Originally posted by PS30-SB
No, on the contrary. The huge majority of races before then were run clockwise, and included the banked section. Anti-clockwise running was usually in order to miss out the banked section, but after the disuse of the banked section it was possible to run clockwise easily due to a small addition. But all-in-all, clockwise running has always been more common.

This little graphic might help to explain the section ( including the famed banking ) that this particular race missed out:

Posted Image

Woooops, I stand corrected! :blush: Apologies, I was going from the only pictures I could remember of early Fuji races (1966 USAC and 1973 Nihon GP), and didn't check any sources! :blush:

#43 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 19:57

Originally posted by David McKinney
And where are the chassis numbers? :lol:

Surtees TS10-02
Takahara BT36-12
Stewart 2BB

But, don't quote me! :lol:

#44 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 21:02

I didn't mean the easy ones, fines :lol:

#45 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 21:05

Originally posted by Allen Brown
True, but I'd trust a data page (wriiten after the event) more than an entry list (written before), especially given the supporting evidence of Fred Opert's subsequent advert for the BT38.

Allen

It also says so in the (not very detailed) results page of the JAF website:

http://www.jaf.or.jp...e_id=1972110010

#46 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 23 August 2008 - 21:19

Originally posted by ReWind
I would like to know what the data page says about the race result of Bob Brown. Looking at the lap chart it seems he wasn't running at the finish (after losing a place and then a full lap to Nick Craw).

Sorry, can't make that out in the pixeled picture. It's puzzling, since all the other drivers have a time or the word リタイア (retired) in this column... :confused:

#47 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 21:33

Originally posted by ReWind
Well, we don't know yet, do we? Unfortunately we have no photo of car # 1.


Please be patient. There is a lot more information to be extracted from these articles yet, and both previous and subsequent editions of these magazines contain articles about the race as well as some detailed writings on a few of the cars and drivers involved.

Caption of this photo translates roughly as "One lap down, N. Craw ( car no.1 - Chevron B18 ) about to be overtaken by John Surtees":

Posted Image

#48 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 21:49

Originally posted by fines

Sorry, can't make that out in the pixeled picture. It's puzzling, since all the other drivers have a time or the word リタイア (retired) in this column... :confused:


fines,
The note for Bob Brown on the hand-written Auto Sport race report translates as "Failed to take checkered flag"....

He was in and out of the pits more than once. Some of the drivers in this race experienced severe tyre problems, with de-laminations and wear-through. Perhaps Brown had tyre trouble too?

Other reasons given for retirements in the hand-written Auto Sport report:

Car no.7 - "Ran out of fuel".
Car no.11 - "Tyre burst".
Car no.6 - "Course out".
Car no.15 - "Clutch trouble".

#49 PS30-SB

PS30-SB
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 August 2008 - 22:12

Originally posted by ReWind
The qualifying times and starting grid positions are taken from Sheldon's Black Book.
But I'm afraid they do not match with the picture showing the start of the race.


You should not be reading too much into the pictures of the 'start' of the race. For one thing, the original picture in the magazine was spread across two pages and - not particularly wanting to break the delicate spine of a 36 year old - I made two separate scans. Not only that, but I cropped them both.

Try this for a starting grid diagram:

Posted Image

#50 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,822 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 24 August 2008 - 01:00

Originally posted by PS30-SB


Please be patient. There is a lot more information to be extracted from these articles yet, and both previous and subsequent editions of these magazines contain articles about the race as well as some detailed writings on a few of the cars and drivers involved.

Caption of this photo translates roughly as "One lap down, N. Craw ( car no.1 - Chevron B18 ) about to be overtaken by John Surtees":

Posted Image

Definitely a B18. A breathtakingly ugly car.

Allen