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Belgian Grand Prix Early Discussion Thread - **Here Comes The Rain!**


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 13:28

After a very uneventful European Grand Prix, the Formula One paddock heads for Belgian, and specifically Spa-Francorchamps for the "64th ING Belgian Grand Prix". Felipe Massa's win has kept the Drivers' Championship race very close, with still 60 points up for grabs with 6 races remaining - Belgium, Italy, Singapore, Japan, China, and Brazil on November 2nd to close the season.

Below are top six for Drivers' and Constructors' Championship:
1) Hamilton - 70pts
2) Massa - 64pts
3) Räikkönen - 57pts
4) Kubica - 55 pts
5) Kovalainen - 43 pts
6) Heidfeld - 41 pts

1) Ferrari - 121pts
2) McLaren - 113pts
3) BMW - 96pts
4) Toyota - 41pts
5) Renault - 31pts
6) Red Bull - 24pts

Although the gaps look "big" as such, a DNF from Hamilton and Massa could bunch everything up in the close season, as was the case last year. With six races left, you would be considered a fool if you ruled Räikkönen and Kubica out of the championship race. A DNF could also bring Kovalainen and Heidfeld within a 25 point radius of the championship range, but again Hamilton would have to DNF for that to even occur so the chances of those two sprucing things up are unlikely, but still a small distinct possibility. The Constructors Championship looks on paper Ferrari vs McLaren, but BMW could try and claw back in the close season. It's everybody's to play for with six rounds left.

From the drivers to the skies, and the weather is a key factor in the Belgian Grand Prix. And unfortunately for the title contenders, the weather isn't looking like a dry prospect, with rain being predicted for the vast majority of the weekend and temperatures unlikely to make the 20 degree mark. The chances of it occuring are high, but when and where may make the big distance. Below is what the "key" weather players think:

Weather Underground: Friday (60%), Saturday (None), Sunday (60%).
Weather.com: Friday (60%), Saturday (60%), Sunday (60%).
MSN.com: Friday (70%), Saturday (95%), Sunday (95%).

:clap: :clap: Bring on the rain!

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#2 molive

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 13:53

Originally posted by D.M.N.
:clap: :clap: Bring on the rain!


NO! Spa is one track that doesnt need rain to give us great racing. And, to see people go flat-out @ eau rouge, dryness is much appreciated, imo.

BUT, if it does rain, I hope it REALLY rains, and doesn't start that "rain-dry-rain-dry" lottery which usually means unusual results.

At this stage of the WDC, I'd prefer if the front-runners all have a fair shot at victory. So, I hope both Ferrari's engines LAST for the whole race, and let the fastest man win!

:cool:

#3 Maximus

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 13:58

I'll be there so would prefer no rain, the racing there can be very good without rain anyway.

#4 Frans

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:04

I want to walk around the track without getting wet!

#5 as65p

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:04

Originally posted by molive

So, I hope both Ferrari's engines LAST for the whole race...

:cool:


Rain would make that almost certain.;)

#6 Atreiu

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:06

Bring on the rain. Last year's race wasn't all that exciting with these V8s and the rev limit. These cars have too little power and too much downforce.


Even with the cool weather, I still think Ferrari will be stronger.

#7 Perigee

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:10

I was wondering if DC has now been banned from racing at Spa in the rain? He doesn't seem to have a particularly good record of not wiping out either dozens of other cars, or the race leader, under wet conditions at this particular circuit.

#8 Atreiu

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:12

Get over it, it's been a full decade...

#9 D.M.N.

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:21

Originally posted by Perigee
I was wondering if DC has now been banned from racing at Spa in the rain? He doesn't seem to have a particularly good record of not wiping out either dozens of other cars, or the race leader, under wet conditions at this particular circuit.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

#10 volvo Death Spell

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:34

Me and the missus have our brolleys at the ready! :D

#11 Atreiu

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:38

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last fully dry races at Spa were 2007, 2004, 2002 and 1999.

2007 was boring, the top 4 ran away from each other and finished as they started;
2004 was exciting with all the crashes yellow flags and actual overtaking, but that was because qualifying was a wet lottery;
2002 wasn't exciting either, Ferrari dominated easily and most of the fun came from Honda blow ups;
1999 saw Coulthard take a dominant win and Hakkinen followed home 2nd, I don't remember much else as well.

So, IMO, we really should hope it's wet.

#12 fnz

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:43

Originally posted by molive


NO! Spa is one track that doesnt need rain to give us great racing. And, to see people go flat-out @ eau rouge, dryness is much appreciated, imo.

BUT, if it does rain, I hope it REALLY rains, and doesn't start that "rain-dry-rain-dry" lottery which usually means unusual results.

At this stage of the WDC, I'd prefer if the front-runners all have a fair shot at victory. So, I hope both Ferrari's engines LAST for the whole race, and let the fastest man win!

:cool:


All drivers take eau rouge flat out these days due to too much downforce... nevertheless it still is a great corner (ll enjoy it from my eau rouge seat)
Concerning the rain i do agree on your point.

4 more days!!! Can't wait to jump in my car and drive to Francorchamps!

#13 DoubleWDC

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:43

Rain or no rain Ferrari will shine.

#14 D.M.N.

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:45

Originally posted by Atreiu
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last fully dry races at Spa were 2007, 2004, 2002 and 1999.

2007 was boring, the top 4 ran away from each other and finished as they started;
2004 was exciting with all the crashes yellow flags and actual overtaking, but that was because qualifying was a wet lottery;
2002 wasn't exciting either, Ferrari dominated easily and most of the fun came from Honda blow ups;
1999 saw Coulthard take a dominant win and Hakkinen followed home 2nd, I don't remember much else as well.

So, IMO, we really should hope it's wet.


Correct (2001 was dry BTW). Just in case people have forgotten:

2006 --> Never took place. :(
2005 --> Infamous MS/Sato collision and Montoya/Pizzonia crash; Raikkonen won.
2003 --> Never took place. :(
2001 --> Williams had the front row, but both stalled. Also remembered for poor Burti's crash. :(
2000 --> Rain at start, dry and end. Famous MS/Hakkinen overtake.
1998 --> We all remember 1998.

Also, remember the thing to do with GB: Wet in '88, '98 and '08, Belgian was wet in '98, so it should be wet in '08. :D

#15 Atreiu

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:50

I thought 2001 started damp, but yeah, I remember it better now. Williams really made a mockery of themselves.

#16 wingwalker

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 14:54

What F1 cars can't do these days, is following through a corner. The faster corner, the more far back following car has to be not to loose all the downforce in front and go off. As great as Spa is, it's full of fast corner (well, this is what makes is great), but it means little to none overtaking with current aero. Especially with REV limit killing long straights. Without rain it's gonna be 2007 on repeat, some action at the beginning and that's it. I sure hope it rains.

#17 tifosi

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 15:26

Originally posted by D.M.N.

2000 --> Rain at start, dry and end. Infamous MS/Hakkinen overtake.


Why was that overtake infamous in your opinion. I'm a Ferrari fan and I thought it was a great pass.

#18 D.M.N.

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 15:50

Originally posted by tifosi


Why was that overtake infamous in your opinion. I'm a Ferrari fan and I thought it was a great pass.


OK, it was famous. And it was the best pass this century alongside Alonso on Schumacher at 130R and Alonso on Schumacher at Hungary 2006.

#19 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 15:59

Originally posted by D.M.N.


OK, it was famous. And it was the best pass this century alongside Alonso on Schumacher at 130R and Alonso on Schumacher at Hungary 2006.

Well it's arguable that the year 2000 was this century at all...

Sorry. I'll get me coat.

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#20 ZZMS

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 16:06

Originally posted by Perigee
I was wondering if DC has now been banned from racing at Spa in the rain? He doesn't seem to have a particularly good record of not wiping out either dozens of other cars, or the race leader, under wet conditions at this particular circuit.


in 1998 he managed all of that and as in between he also finished A. Wurz's race in a separate incident. This is next to impossible to one up

#21 Perigee

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 16:31

Originally posted by ZZMS


in 1998 he managed all of that and as in between he also finished A. Wurz's race in a separate incident. This is next to impossible to one up

Excellent recall. I wonder if it's worth dropping an email to Whiting, entitled:

"Increase by a MASSIVE 50% the size of your Belgian GP safety!"

and then give details about banning DC, buying some dodgy pills and helping to transfer 100 million dollars from Nigeria.

#22 BMW_F1

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 18:48

Originally posted by D.M.N.


OK, it was famous. And it was the best pass this century alongside Alonso on Schumacher at 130R and Alonso on Schumacher at Hungary 2006.


I disagree. JPM on Schumacher at the old bus stop.. Check out my sigg and enjoy the show..

#23 lukywill

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 18:50

extreme poor times for me to enjoy.

any way i always dislike spa.

#24 mkay

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 19:01

Originally posted by D.M.N.


OK, it was famous. And it was the best pass this century alongside Alonso on Schumacher at 130R and Alonso on Schumacher at Hungary 2006.


You forgot Raikkonen on Fisichella at Suzuka in 2005.

You forgot all of Montoya's moves (San Marino, Interlagos, etc.) on Schumacher. They were pure awesomeness.

I get that you're an Alonso fan, aren't you?

#25 f1rules

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 19:16

no no please no rain, i lead the biggest manager game in denmark with a first price of 5000dollars :lol:

#26 Lewis Hamilton F1

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 19:42

I think it makes stuff interesting when it rains in the middle of the race and dries up again - do you guys think? Makes F1 more eventful - rather than only the start and pit-stops.

#27 craftverk

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 20:01

Originally posted by Lewis Hamilton F1
I think it makes stuff interesting when it rains in the middle of the race and dries up again - do you guys think? Makes F1 more eventful - rather than only the start and pit-stops.

We like events, just not a lottery. I either want a completely wet race or a completely dry one, no fiddling over tires.

#28 undersquare

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 20:30

Just as well we don't have to choose the weather then :lol:

Rain, damp, drying, it's all part of the sport, I don't mind as long as there are no pace cars.

#29 ashnathan

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 21:49

Originally posted by D.M.N.


OK, it was famous. And it was the best pass this century alongside Alonso on Schumacher at 130R and Alonso on Schumacher at Hungary 2006.


Raikkonen Fisichella Japan 2006 anyone? and as i watched the 2005 Belgian gp yesterday, Buttons overtake around the outside of...cant remember who, but on the outside all the way around pouhon was pretty bloody good and not even james allen got overly excited about that one haha. i miss the mp4/20.

#30 jonpollak

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 22:50

Originally posted by lukywill
extreme poor times for me to enjoy.

any way i always dislike spa.


Put down the crack pipe Amy :rolleyes:
Sheesh.. I suppose you'd prefer the parking lot at Caesars again
Jp

#31 pingu666

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 02:00

i think its more of a you gotta be there track, i know the drivers love it, but ive never really got why us viewers should aswell (excluding history)

#32 Music Man

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 08:53

Originally posted by mkay
You forgot Raikkonen on Fisichella at Suzuka in 2005.

Originally posted by kids like ash
Raikkonen Fisichella Japan 2006 anyone?

Sure it was a pass for the lead, but nowhere near as impressive as Alonso's pass on Schumacher in 130R

Otherwise I hope for a wet race, last year's dry race was sleepfest and I can't imagine why it would be different this year...

#33 fnz

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:10

Originally posted by kids like ash


Raikkonen Fisichella Japan 2006 anyone? and as i watched the 2005 Belgian gp yesterday, Buttons overtake around the outside of...cant remember who, but on the outside all the way around pouhon was pretty bloody good and not even james allen got overly excited about that one haha. i miss the mp4/20.


Hehe i watched Spa 2005 myself yesterday and yes, that Button pass was MARVELLOUS!!!

#34 DoubleWDC

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:14

Originally posted by Music Man

Sure it was a pass for the lead, but nowhere near as impressive as Alonso's pass on Schumacher in 130R


It was better as it was done on the last lap and without rehearsing the move at first. Also Fisichella had much better car compared to Kimi than MS had compared to FA.

#35 krapmeister

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:33

Put down the crack pipe Amy
Sheesh.. I suppose you'd prefer the parking lot at Caesars again
Jp




:lol: :lol: :lol:

it'll give you brain damage and make you talk funny... :stoned:

#36 craftverk

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:33

Originally posted by DoubleWDC


It was better as it was done on the last lap and without rehearsing the move at first. Also Fisichella had much better car compared to Kimi than MS had compared to FA.

The McLaren was clearly the fastest car of 2005, though..

#37 Nobody

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:40

Originally posted by fnz


Hehe i watched Spa 2005 myself yesterday and yes, that Button pass was MARVELLOUS!!!


There is only one move to speak of when at Spa... ;)

Wet/dry might just give us that kind of racing.

Spa is awesome :up:

#38 Spunout

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:41

Originally posted by craftverk

The McLaren was clearly the fastest car of 2005, though..


But it wasn´t clearly the fastest car in that particular race. According to Alonso, Renault was as good as Mac or better. He too was flying, but lost time passing Klien and giving the position back few laps later.

#39 Hames Junt

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 11:26

Originally posted by Music Man


Sure it was a pass for the lead, but nowhere near as impressive as Alonso's pass on Schumacher in 130R


You have to consider that Alonso had the outside line and racing line after Schumacher moved to the left, and Schumacher was forced to lift otherwise there would have been "the Mother and Father of all shunts".

An excellent pass, but it's greatness is exaggerated.



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#40 wingwalker

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 11:36

Originally posted by fnz


Hehe i watched Spa 2005 myself yesterday and yes, that Button pass was MARVELLOUS!!!



Hm, I thought "what is up with people watching 2005 race? Do they all tape every race?". A little search, and TA-DA, Full race on Youtube. This is part 4, starting with Brundle's grid walk, parts 1-3 are ITV pre show.

#41 One

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 11:55

Originally posted by Nobody


There is only one move to speak of when at Spa... ;)

Wet/dry might just give us that kind of racing.

Spa is awesome :up:



Question is where wil it rain, and what tyre in which moment should a car use? Great race track. The largeness of it makes the racing complex.

#42 D A

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 11:57

Originally posted by wingwalker



Hm, I thought "what is up with people watching 2005 race? Do they all tape every race?". A little search, and TA-DA, Full race on Youtube. This is part 4, starting with Brundle's grid walk, parts 1-3 are ITV pre show.


Brilliant, thanks!

#43 bankoq

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 12:12

McLaren won't blow. Ferrari guys must count on Hamilton's occasional problems with tires. I can't see any other possibility of McLaren car not finishing the race because of technical gremlins.

#44 D.M.N.

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 13:16

Originally posted by D.M.N.
Weather Underground: Friday (60%), Saturday (None), Sunday (60%).
Weather.com: Friday (60%), Saturday (60%), Sunday (60%).
MSN.com: Friday (70%), Saturday (95%), Sunday (95%).

:clap: :clap: Bring on the rain!


Forget "Bring on the rain!". The "bullshit weather sites" are now saying:

Weather Underground: Friday (30%), Saturday (30%), Sunday (None).
Weather.com: Friday (60%), Saturday (60%), Sunday (20%).
MSN.com: Friday (95%), Saturday (70%), Sunday (50%).

So, it seems like Friday will be wet, Saturday could be wet, and Sunday will be dry. :cry: :cry: :cry:

#45 postajegenye

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 14:09

It's always the same.

10 days before the race they predict rain and rain and rain
2 days later it's 80% chance of rain
5 days later it goes down to 50
at the beginning of the weekend it changes to "it might rain"
and then Sunday arrives with bright blue skies

#46 Maximus

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 14:52

Originally posted by D.M.N.
So, it seems like Friday will be wet, Saturday could be wet, and Sunday will be dry. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Great I'll pack the sunscreen :D

#47 Laffite

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 15:53

100% chance of rain..

..for the Fuji race

Just kidding. For a dry Spa I'll bet Raikkonen will make it. Even starting from a lame 4th-5th-6th position.

For a fully wet race, I'll keep my bet

For a changeable weather race, 100% chance of a NON Ferrari win.

#48 D.M.N.

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 20:23

Originally posted by Laffite
100% chance of rain..

..for the Fuji race

Just kidding. For a dry Spa I'll bet Raikkonen will make it. Even starting from a lame 4th-5th-6th position.

For a fully wet race, I'll keep my bet

For a changeable weather race, 100% chance of a NON Ferrari win.


Has Kimi ever won in the wet?

#49 stevvy1986

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 20:33

depends on your definition of wet-belgium 2005 and china 2007 both started wet enough for wet tyres,but dried up during the race,so.....depends

#50 Atreiu

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 23:02

Originally posted by D.M.N.


Has Kimi ever won in the wet?


Soa 2005, China 2007.