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Has Bourdais done enough to justify his seat for 2009?


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#1 andy walker

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:09

I would say 'YES', due to the fact that none of the current GP2 drivers are of any decent calibre.

And to replace him with Sato would be criminal.

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#2 secessionman

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:13

I think the last 2 races he's had almost Herbert-esque bad luck.

Spa, running (I think) 4th until the late showers, desperately unlucky in the last 2 laps.

Monza, qualified 4th, unlucky to find himself a lap down before the race effectively started. A lap down, still showed great pace in a car that won the race.

He's taken 2 points from the last 2 races, and with a modicum of luck could have had 10 or 11.

So yes, I hope he gets another year.

#3 Wouter

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:14

I hope Bourdias gets retained for 2009. He has clearly improved, a lot, and it would assure continuity at Torro Rosso. 2 new drivers is a gamble.

#4 lwd

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:16

Yes.

#5 D.M.N.

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:18

Yes. IF STR replace him with someone else, I hope another team pick him up, i.e. BMW with Heidfeld out of there.

#6 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:25

Easily, I'm very impressed with him. I think he's had bad luck and he's not too far behind Vettel in terms of pace either (who himself I rate to be one of the quickest drivers out there). Had he not stalled today I think he could have been a podium contender. That car was sweetly set up. I was hoping for a safety car to come into play to Vettel could catch the field up and show us how quick he could have been.

I think Sato is only worthy of a seat from a commerical point of view hence so much interest in him, because he can attract so many Japanese sponsors.

#7 andy walker

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:28

Judging by the lap times he was banging in, he would have easily finished on the podium.

He could have gone to pieces after stalling, but he wanted to show the world what he could do.

I bet he had a bit of a sob afterwards again. The ladies love that.

#8 BiH

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:32

yes. I think today he would have been on podium easily.

#9 Mr G

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:32

In the last 3 races he has defenetly shown that he should keep his seat for 2009. If he can keep this speed up in the last 4 races there is no reason for STR to replace him.
I think Sato and Bourdais can be a good line up for STR next season.

#10 Cenotaph

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:33

yeh, he was unlucky, he was actually second in the fastest lap classification, 1.211s behind kimi. Bourdais looks good for another season, i think.

#11 Zar

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:40

If he doesn't keep his seat I'll never root for STR again :blush:

He's done a fine job; I feel he's been really unlucky to have been paired with Vettel (who seems to be for real the next shoemaker) he would've destroyed either Speed or Liuzzi IMO.
Today he showed real temple...like someone else said before he could've crumbled after that stall but he chose to go out and show his pace.

Go Seabass :up:

#12 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:42

I think he would crush Sato personally.

#13 CWeil

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:42

It would be criminal to not give Bourdais another year. What terrible luck he's had the last couple races!

Originally posted by Cenotaph
yeh, he was unlucky, he was actually second in the fastest lap classification, 1.211s behind kimi. Bourdais looks good for another season, i think.


No, that was a misprint on F1's website. That was actually Vettel.

#14 SpamJet

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:43

Yes

#15 andy walker

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:43

I think his main problem has been he has a real talent in the car next to him in Vettel.

If he had gone in against an established driver, people could probably guage him better.

Fisco would have been a good benchmark. We all know where Sutil stacks up now.

#16 dgduris

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:45

Today could improve his chances of staying.

If Berger can bring in some big sponsorship dollars because of today, SeaBass will have a better shot at staying, IMO. But if someone like, say, Taku, comes with $$$ it will be hard for Gerhard to say no.

I think that SeaBass and SeaVett together @ STR would really be a great thing.

Here's to hoping!

Cheers to Minardi!

#17 andy walker

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:46

Where are the french sponsors?

#18 molive

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:47

Boudais is very good. today was a very unlucky day for him.

#19 Cenotaph

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:47

Originally posted by CWeil

No, that was a misprint on F1's website. That was actually Vettel.


sure? i saw it in FIA's site as well.

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#20 bankoq

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:47

Yes.

#21 rookie

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 15:54

I would keep him in for 09.

#22 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:04

I vote Yes.

#23 EvilPhil II

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:06

I'd like to see him Replace Alonso or Piquet at Renault

#24 Two Jags

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:09

Originally posted by andy walker
I think his main problem has been he has a real talent in the car next to him in Vettel.

If he had gone in against an established driver, people could probably guage him better.

Fisco would have been a good benchmark. We all know where Sutil stacks up now.


I agree. Berger was a fine F1 driver but he would do well to remember how he fared when he teamed up with Senna. I think Bourdais has shown enough in his rookie year to merit at least another season.

#25 pingu666

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:11

Originally posted by andy walker
Where are the french sponsors?


prost said the same, not so long ago...

i dont think the stall was his fault either, considering how long it took to get him going

#26 kodandaram

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:24

Vettel is gone next year. They can do with an experienced driver. And of Late Bourdais has been up to pace everywhere. I would keep him. But Berger is very cynical and ruthless I doubt he is inclined to keep him.

I think as of now Piquet junior and Bourdais are in the same boat though Bourdais has performed much better than Piquet relative to his team-mate overall.

#27 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:27

I thought hes done a great job the last two races but been very unlucky (if the stall wasnt his fault). Maybe STR could have had a double podium today.

He seems to cry everytime a cameras on him though. Thats not good for the perception of his strength as a competitor.

#28 Scotracer

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:33

Yes :)

#29 Mark521

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:34

Has Bourdais done enough to "justify" his seat for 2009? I would say Yes.

Has Bourdais done enough to "retain" his seat in the eyes of Toro Roso's management for 2009? I would say No.

It will be a shame when it happens but I don't think he'll be at TR next season. He really needed some better results from the last two races when the circumstances were in his favor. I hope for his sake that today's grid stall was clearly not his fault. I think the post race press release will be very telling for his future.

#30 Zar

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 16:56

Originally posted by kodandaram
Vettel is gone next year. They can do with an experienced driver. And of Late Bourdais has been up to pace everywhere. I would keep him. But Berger is very cynical and ruthless I doubt he is inclined to keep him.

I think as of now Piquet junior and Bourdais are in the same boat though Bourdais has performed much better than Piquet relative to his team-mate overall.


If Piquet gets to stay in F1 and Bourdais doesn't.............. :rolleyes: :mad:
If STR won't keep him Renault should give him a shot, after all he is French too you know.....;)

#31 glorius&victorius

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 17:00

Originally posted by andy walker
I would say 'YES', due to the fact that none of the current GP2 drivers are of any decent calibre.

And to replace him with Sato would be criminal.


i dont agree with that statement: Di Grassi is more than decent calibre

... but I do hope that SB gets a second year. I wouldnt be fair if not

#32 molive

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 17:10

Originally posted by EvilPhil II
I'd like to see him Replace Alonso or Piquet at Renault


It would be nice having a French drive for their team.

Alonso is on the move, so maybe a Piquet x Bourdais duo.

#33 Chilled Phill

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 18:13

Originally posted by molive


It would be nice having a French drive for their team.

Alonso is on the move, so maybe a Piquet x Bourdais duo.


Fairly inexperienced duo for a manufacturer isn't it? :confused:

Anyway, I do think Bourdais is going in the right direction and if Vettel had more than a season to impress, then so must the Frenchman. :)

#34 BMW_F1

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 18:14

absolutely..

#35 Haddock

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 18:22

I think Bourdais has done enough to demonstrate that he deserves another season, but whether he gets one is another matter. Red Bull seem keen to foist Sebastien Buemi on the team (who knows why, he has hardly set the world alight in GP2) and Takuma Sato and Bruno Senna are amongst the circling vultures. If Renault lose Alonso, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they ended up picking up Heidfeld - especially if Alonso goes to BMW. He may not be the quickest driver in the world, but he knows how to set up a car and he's a reliable worker.

#36 Sakae

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 18:37

Originally posted by andy walker
I would say 'YES', due to the fact that none of the current GP2 drivers are of any decent calibre.

And to replace him with Sato would be criminal.

I would give him one year more.

#37 Sakae

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 18:40

Originally posted by Two Jags


I agree. Berger was a fine F1 driver

Well that's not what Lauda meant when he was reffering to him and to Alesi as "Those two idiots (in Ferrari)".

#38 Rob

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 18:40

I don't see who they could replace him with who would be a better choice. Bourdais has a proven track record and has obviously taken time getting adjusted to the cars. Now that he's got the car sorted, he is having all sorts of terrible luck.

For a small team like STR, continuity will help them enormously. With Vettel off to Red Bull, keeping Sebastian would help stabilise the team.

Sebastien Buemi? Does your name have to be Sebastien to get a seat in this team now? :)

#39 anbeck

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 18:51

I agree with most of the people here saying yes, keep him another year. And Berger has said before the race that the chances for this to happen are very good.

Then again, a cynic might say: Bad Luck is part of a driver, such as technical skills and talent. Look at guys like Jean Alesi: Whenever he was leading, his car broke down! That guy had a monopoly on bad luck for half a decade!

Compare this to Lewis or Fernando, these guys are lucky. That's why they are/will be successful. Bourdais seems unlucky as well. He deserves a seat in F1, but he wouldn't be the first to have a career sabotaged by bad luck.

That's, of course, just a cynic's view :p

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#40 Frans

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 19:11

nope, not even enough to finish the rest of the season. they should dump him asap

#41 race addicted

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 19:23

Absolutely. It's a bit unfair on Bourdais that the car that turned out to suit Vettel better, is so much more competitive. what I have in mind is of course their performance in the old car; Bourdais was basically a match for Vettel in that one, and often looked quicker. And he probably showed better race-craft (I say probably as I don't remember if all of Vettel's first-lap mishaps was bad luck or poor judgement.)
Now in the STR3 Bourdais is starting to show serious pace again.
So yes, absolutely.

#42 Juan Kerr

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 20:16

Yes he has,this is his first year and he's getting close to being in the front group regularly. Not forgetting that Vettel has been very erratic this year and has not blown Bourdais away by any stretch either.

#43 Andrew Ford &F1

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 21:00

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
Easily, I'm very impressed with him. I think he's had bad luck and he's not too far behind Vettel in terms of pace either (who himself I rate to be one of the quickest drivers out there). Had he not stalled today I think he could have been a podium contender. That car was sweetly set up. I was hoping for a safety car to come into play to Vettel could catch the field up and show us how quick he could have been.

I think Sato is only worthy of a seat from a commerical point of view hence so much interest in him, because he can attract so many Japanese sponsors.


Half a year ago Sato could attract absolutely no one, and that was why (the lack of sponsors) Super Aguri had to fold.

#44 Bloggsworth

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 21:04

Yes.

#45 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 21:04

Originally posted by Frans
nope, not even enough to finish the rest of the season. they should dump him asap

I hear Jos is available :wave:

#46 pingu666

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 02:07

Originally posted by anbeck
I agree with most of the people here saying yes, keep him another year. And Berger has said before the race that the chances for this to happen are very good.

Then again, a cynic might say: Bad Luck is part of a driver, such as technical skills and talent. Look at guys like Jean Alesi: Whenever he was leading, his car broke down! That guy had a monopoly on bad luck for half a decade!

Compare this to Lewis or Fernando, these guys are lucky. That's why they are/will be successful. Bourdais seems unlucky as well. He deserves a seat in F1, but he wouldn't be the first to have a career sabotaged by bad luck.

That's, of course, just a cynic's view :p


thats true, but he won 4 champcar titles, so maybe its a unlucky year, maybe his luck has run out, who knows :

#47 Classic Ferrari

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:04

Think he has for sure! Been really unlucky, like in Aus in the first round. Running what 4th? and the car fails ): and just now in Monza where hes show tons of speed in quali

#48 27GV

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 04:32

HELL YEAH :clap:

The 2 Sebs are the best rookies so far this year (this is Vettel's first full year to) he should be placed much higher on any driver list than Piquet :up:

#49 Frans

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 09:58

Ok then, please tell me WHAT the hell did that Sebastian Bourdais showed us this season so far, besides very big f*ckups in the races??? ....

maybe he can do a pretty nice lap in qualy, weehoo, but in the races he lacks experiance and racers-agression. He's more a driver than a racer.

#50 Slyder

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 10:56

Originally posted by Frans
Ok then, please tell me WHAT the hell did that Sebastian Bourdais showed us this season so far, besides very big f*ckups in the races??? ....

maybe he can do a pretty nice lap in qualy, weehoo, but in the races he lacks experiance and racers-agression. He's more a driver than a racer.


Resilience, and honesty.

Not everyone is going to be kicking ass right off the bat. For many, it takes time, and it isn't necessarily easy if the car isn't helping as well.