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Stewart must channel his frustration


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#1 aditya-now

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:06

Sir Jackie is still vocal in all things Hamilton, even going as far as citing that "Niki Lauda agrees with me on that", something he has never done in all those years:

http://www.itv-f1.co...e.aspx?id=44048

It is clear that he is quite peeved about the FIA and its president - who would not be after being called "a certified half..."
Yet he keeps on pounding out statements after statements, using Lewis for his own agenda.

I do not think that this will help Lewis in any way, it is just throwing oil into the flames. Hamilton has enough troubles of his own, he does not need Stewart to be instrumentalised.

Ego is a strange animal, once hurt we all become highly irrational and even counterproductive.
What a fight of the egos in the sport, Mosley, Ecclestone, Stewart, Hill, Todt (in earlier days), Lauda....etc. !
I wonder what´s really going on behind the curtain. Somehow I get the impression that it´s a bunch of angry old men having a go at each other whenever they can.

How much a pure racer like Sir Frank Williams or also Gerhard Berger stand out from that crowd.

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#2 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:27

i think Sir Jackie is as pure a racer as Sir Frank or Gerhard, he's one of the good guys.

If you ignore a person who's trying to reason with you what do they do? they get louder, still ignored? they'll get abusive, keep going and they may even get physical. It's frustration, that's all and you see it in society as clearly as you do one on one, when people are frozen out of the system that was designed to represent them they resort to the only thing they have left.

Max has spent his presidency quietly shifting the rules to create an unassailable position, when he stands for elections they are unopposed, there is no mechanism to remove him (this years vote of confidence would not have actually forced him to stand down had it gone against him).

This wouldn't be a problem if he was a decent , professional president but he falls far short of that.

He's become abusive of his position, vitriolic and insulting to the people who give him his power base and shows blatant favouritism. Teams are guilty unless they can prove themselves innocent and the rules are written with enough greyness to allow him to re-interpret them at will to hurt whoever he likes. which he does with tedious monotony. He has created a stench of fear that fills the sport and his private life has proved hugely embarrassing.

in short he's dug himself into a bunker and started throwing grenades into the crowd and he really can't be surprised when people start chucking them back in.

Sir Jackie can see the sport he loves getting dragged into the gutter and Max has robbed him of the ability to do anything about that, so he does what he can, he speaks his mind and thank god he does because way too few have the balls to oppose Mosley these days.


Mosley recently sneered that Jackie and Eddie jordan were just bitter failures who couldn't hack it in F1 (if you criticise Max you get playground insults...........classy) yet in the THIRTY YEARS since Ron bought McLaren only two privateer teams have started from scratch and won a race, Stewart and Jordan, all others have failed.Their owners? Jackie Stewart and Eddie Jordan

#3 dbltop

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:28

First of all you have to realize that Jackie Stewart doesn't run up to every tv camera or reporter and offer his opinion on everything. He is probably ( and I say probably because I don't know for sure ) approached with some very leading questions. Then his answers , in turn,are artisticly edited. All of these headlines that scream out JACKIE SAID or MICHAEL SAID, or STIRLING SAID should be taken with a large grain of salt.

#4 HoldenRT

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:44

Jackie is no different from the notorious (or infamous) vocals fans of this board of Ferrari or McLaren or Alonso or Kimi etc. You don't even need to read the quotes or the post to know that it will be very supportive and somewhat biased. So it makes those kind of opinions redundant imo (their value).

I saw Jackie on a local TV talk show which had nothing to do with modern racing, he was talking about his life and his book. He's very respected and for good reason. He's done great things both on the track and in his efforts to improve safety. But when he starts talking about his thoughts on the current drivers or decisions it's just a bit too predictable. It's an opinion like anyone elses, but it's a very one sided one. And as with anything the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

#5 Perigee

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:48

He's a bit too "investment this" and "investor that" these days for my liking, and does have a habit of attaching himself to the latest populist cause.

That said, he is a character (and certainly dresses like a character), and was a great driver, so try to remember him for how he used to be, rather than the corporate mouthpiece he's become.

#6 Maximus

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:51

I think he should continue to offer us his opinions without holding back, it's entertaining :D

#7 equality

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:53

Originally posted by Boing 2
i think Sir Jackie is as pure a racer as Sir Frank or Gerhard, he's one of the good guys.

If you ignore a person who's trying to reason with you what do they do? they get louder, still ignored? they'll get abusive, keep going and they may even get physical. It's frustration, that's all and you see it in society as clearly as you do one on one, when people are frozen out of the system that was designed to represent them they resort to the only thing they have left.

Max has spent his presidency quietly shifting the rules to create an unassailable position, when he stands for elections they are unopposed, there is no mechanism to remove him (this years vote of confidence would not have actually forced him to stand down had it gone against him).

This wouldn't be a problem if he was a decent , professional president but he falls far short of that.

He's become abusive of his position, vitriolic and insulting to the people who give him his power base and shows blatant favouritism. Teams are guilty unless they can prove themselves innocent and the rules are written with enough greyness to allow him to re-interpret them at will to hurt whoever he likes. which he does with tedious monotony. He has created a stench of fear that fills the sport and his private life has proved hugely embarrassing.

in short he's dug himself into a bunker and started throwing grenades into the crowd and he really can't be surprised when people start chucking them back in.

Sir Jackie can see the sport he loves getting dragged into the gutter and Max has robbed him of the ability to do anything about that, so he does what he can, he speaks his mind and thank god he does because way too few have the balls to oppose Mosley these days.


Mosley recently sneered that Jackie and Eddie jordan were just bitter failures who couldn't hack it in F1 (if you criticise Max you get playground insults...........classy) yet in the THIRTY YEARS since Ron bought McLaren only two privateer teams have started from scratch and won a race, Stewart and Jordan, all others have failed.Their owners? Jackie Stewart and Eddie Jordan


Stewart is definitly NOT one of the good guys. This is a dude who went on and defended mclaren for not racing at melbourne 98.

Furthermore he gets paid by RBS to walk around the paddock at each and every GP and vent his opinion. Its normal that some of the british media love to quote his greatness. Thankfully mosley reckognized the value of those quotes; they are zilch.

The quote about the race wins also made me laugh. It was not on merit, like with toro rosso, but on luck. He sold his privateer team after only 2 years competing. When ford in return wanted to sell their team, stewart claimed they shoulnt as''f1 needs a great name'. The cheeky git. Forgetting he sold his own great name.

We can only hope RBS collapses and stewart will be told to stay home.

#8 Gareth

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:00

I don't know about Stewart, but I need to channel my bloody frustration effectively.

:mad: (at the FIA/ICA)

:mad: (at myself, for getting so :mad: ).

#9 howardt

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:01

WTF ? Yeh, and his three world drivers' championships were just luck as well, he probably won them wearing a kilt or something.
You sound a little bitter, dude.

#10 Gareth

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:04

I am bitter, but I think you will find I am an 11 times Geoff Crammond's F1 WDC.

None won in a kilt, though, all won in my pj's.

#11 kar

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:07

Jackie is no different from the notorious (or infamous) vocals fans of this board of Ferrari or McLaren or Alonso or Kimi etc. You don't even need to read the quotes or the post to know that it will be very supportive and somewhat biased. So it makes those kind of opinions redundant imo (their value).


Being biased doesn't automatically make you wrong. And indeed I would challenge you to find a single poster who is not biased in someone else's eyes. Everyone is, even the outwardly neutral.

It's mightily convenient to ignore someone's point of view because you think they are biased. It certainly makes it easier to think your own viewpoint is the right one when you do that. Maybe you are, and maybe you are not. But ignoring wholesale sections of opinion because you question its neutrality is preposterous.

#12 howardt

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:09

Sorry Gareth - comment above was addressed to equality. Shoulda quoted.
11 WDC's in your pj's ? Not bad. I think I won one.

#13 Maximus

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:10

Originally posted by Gareth
I don't know about Stewart, but I need to channel my bloody frustration effectively.

:mad: (at the FIA/ICA)

:mad: (at myself, for getting so :mad: ).

That's not good Gareth, take the Stewart way of stress relief:

Put on your wifes/girlfriends/sisters skirt and a silly hat, now open the window and start screaming in a high pitched voice to anyone, whether they want to hear it or not, what's bothering you so much.

You'll feel much more relaxed afterwards I guarantee you ;)

#14 Maldwyn

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:11

Originally posted by equality
We can only hope RBS collapses and stewart will be told to stay home.

The day that the likes of JYS stop expressing their views will be a sad day IMHO and I hope it never happens. I've seen the suggestion that a "climate of fear" exisits in the F1 paddock - fear of expressing a view that questions the FIA. That's the kind of environment that appears to have been created under Mosley's Presidency.

JYS is able to speak up because he's not an F1 stakeholder and is therefore beyond the reach of any official punishement for daring to question what goes on. Realising this is perhaps why Mosley resorts to childish insults in an attempt to damage JYS's credibility, but the only credibility that has been damaged is that of the FIA President.

#15 equality

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:12

Ow, but I am not bitter dude. I never questioned his 3 titles, though they where long time ago.

My comments where on the OP. Stewarts quotes are worh nothing. In fact theyre quite amusing. Especially the ones about Hamilton and that he would set new standards in terms of being humble and nice. Still id love to see RBS tell jacky to stay home.

#16 Gareth

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:17

Originally posted by Maximus
You'll feel much more relaxed afterwards I guarantee you ;)

Actually, I just this minute found out Mat Millen has been fired. I'm feeling loads better already! Phew. :D

#17 rookie

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:17

I actually thought his latest ITV piece was well balanced for once. He spoke well about Massa improving all the time, Kimi not forgetting how to drive and Lewis learning all the time etc.

For the same reason people dislike Max and feel he has a vendetta against Ron and McLaren, I sometimes feel like JYS has it in for Max and the FIA and that theme comes on a little strong at times through his comments.

But its hard to dislike the man for his driving and his crusade for driver safety, I dip my hat to him for that.

edit - I can't find the piece with his discussion on Massa and Kimi and Alonso...I thought i read it on ITV today....anyway, my comments re- JYS still stand.

#18 Buttoneer

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:25

Originally posted by kar

It's mightily convenient to ignore someone's point of view because you think they are biased. It certainly makes it easier to think your own viewpoint is the right one when you do that. Maybe you are, and maybe you are not. But ignoring wholesale sections of opinion because you question its neutrality is preposterous.

Unless it's Gutterprix.com or The Gump?

#19 potmotr

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:42

I respect Sir Jackie massively. The fact he gets under Max Mosley's skin, and provokes the kind of venom and pure pompous egotistical hatred from that Jew-hating ******* who has clung onto the FIA's top job would suggest Sir Jackie's comments hit home more often than not.

And Sir Jackie doesn't seek the limelight, journalists seek him. And why wouldn't they? As a three time World Champion he has the same level of credibility as Lauda, another former champ who isn't afraid to speak his mind.

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#20 kar

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:43

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Unless it's Gutterprix.com or The Gump?


I read both regularly and consider what they say - I don't ignore them, I do apply a lot of salt to what they say, but I read and consider it all the same.

That is a sensible approach to take to any source of opinion isn't it?

I give them those lovely labels because the former all too often confused opinion with fact and the latter because he was acting as someone's minion. Nonetheless, even though both sources are often quite partisan, and sometimes ludicrously wrong on their calls, it doesn't preclude them from being right on occasion.

#21 27GV

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:44

Originally posted by Boing 2
i think Sir Jackie is as pure a racer as Sir Frank or Gerhard, he's one of the good guys.

If you ignore a person who's trying to reason with you what do they do? they get louder, still ignored? they'll get abusive, keep going and they may even get physical. It's frustration, that's all and you see it in society as clearly as you do one on one, when people are frozen out of the system that was designed to represent them they resort to the only thing they have left.

Max has spent his presidency quietly shifting the rules to create an unassailable position, when he stands for elections they are unopposed, there is no mechanism to remove him (this years vote of confidence would not have actually forced him to stand down had it gone against him).

This wouldn't be a problem if he was a decent , professional president but he falls far short of that.

He's become abusive of his position, vitriolic and insulting to the people who give him his power base and shows blatant favouritism. Teams are guilty unless they can prove themselves innocent and the rules are written with enough greyness to allow him to re-interpret them at will to hurt whoever he likes. which he does with tedious monotony. He has created a stench of fear that fills the sport and his private life has proved hugely embarrassing.

in short he's dug himself into a bunker and started throwing grenades into the crowd and he really can't be surprised when people start chucking them back in.

Sir Jackie can see the sport he loves getting dragged into the gutter and Max has robbed him of the ability to do anything about that, so he does what he can, he speaks his mind and thank god he does because way too few have the balls to oppose Mosley these days.


Mosley recently sneered that Jackie and Eddie jordan were just bitter failures who couldn't hack it in F1 (if you criticise Max you get playground insults...........classy) yet in the THIRTY YEARS since Ron bought McLaren only two privateer teams have started from scratch and won a race, Stewart and Jordan, all others have failed.Their owners? Jackie Stewart and Eddie Jordan


This man speaks the truth a lot better than I can. :up:

#22 equality

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:47

Originally posted by potmotr
the kind of venom and pure pompous egotistical hatred from that Jew-hating ******* who has clung onto the FIA's top job


Riiiight :rolleyes:

I honestly think this FIA and mosley bashing goes over the top. Chill out.

#23 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:50

Originally posted by equality


Stewart is definitly NOT one of the good guys. This is a dude who went on and defended mclaren for not racing at melbourne 98.

Furthermore he gets paid by RBS to walk around the paddock at each and every GP and vent his opinion. Its normal that some of the british media love to quote his greatness. Thankfully mosley reckognized the value of those quotes; they are zilch.


As a triple world champion driver, a race winning privateer team owner, a development driver for road cars, a successful businessman, a PR spokesman and a representative of one of the worlds largest constructors he has experience in every area, the cockpit, the track, the press office and the boardroom. His experience means that his opinions are of infinite value compared to the empty words and manipulative rubbish that pours from Mosleys mouth.

Originally posted by equality

The quote about the race wins also made me laugh. It was not on merit, like with toro rosso, but on luck. He sold his privateer team after only 2 years competing. When ford in return wanted to sell their team, stewart claimed they shoulnt as''f1 needs a great name'. The cheeky git. Forgetting he sold his own great name.


He raced for 3 years not two. He got a 2nd place podium at Monaco in his first year beaten only by Schumacher and had 4 podiums in his 3rd year including a win to take him to 4th place in the constructors championship.

That's some luck.

He sold his company because (as an experienced F1/business man) he knew that Max and Bernie were pushing hard to make F1 a constructor led sport and he knew the privateers were going to get priced out. He has since been proved entirely correct to do so as every privateer bar Williams who existed in 1997 is now dead and buried.

#24 Orin

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:51

Originally posted by Boing 2
i think Sir Jackie is as pure a racer as Sir Frank or Gerhard, he's one of the good guys.

If you ignore a person who's trying to reason with you what do they do? they get louder, still ignored? they'll get abusive, keep going and they may even get physical. It's frustration, that's all and you see it in society as clearly as you do one on one, when people are frozen out of the system that was designed to represent them they resort to the only thing they have left.

Max has spent his presidency quietly shifting the rules to create an unassailable position, when he stands for elections they are unopposed, there is no mechanism to remove him (this years vote of confidence would not have actually forced him to stand down had it gone against him).

This wouldn't be a problem if he was a decent , professional president but he falls far short of that.

He's become abusive of his position, vitriolic and insulting to the people who give him his power base and shows blatant favouritism. Teams are guilty unless they can prove themselves innocent and the rules are written with enough greyness to allow him to re-interpret them at will to hurt whoever he likes. which he does with tedious monotony. He has created a stench of fear that fills the sport and his private life has proved hugely embarrassing.

in short he's dug himself into a bunker and started throwing grenades into the crowd and he really can't be surprised when people start chucking them back in.

Sir Jackie can see the sport he loves getting dragged into the gutter and Max has robbed him of the ability to do anything about that, so he does what he can, he speaks his mind and thank god he does because way too few have the balls to oppose Mosley these days.


Mosley recently sneered that Jackie and Eddie jordan were just bitter failures who couldn't hack it in F1 (if you criticise Max you get playground insults...........classy) yet in the THIRTY YEARS since Ron bought McLaren only two privateer teams have started from scratch and won a race, Stewart and Jordan, all others have failed.Their owners? Jackie Stewart and Eddie Jordan



Spot on. :up:

#25 angst

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:54

Originally posted by Boing 2



Mosley recently sneered that Jackie and Eddie jordan were just bitter failures who couldn't hack it in F1 (if you criticise Max you get playground insults...........classy) yet in the THIRTY YEARS since Ron bought McLaren only two privateer teams have started from scratch and won a race, Stewart and Jordan, all others have failed.Their owners? Jackie Stewart and Eddie Jordan


Not to mention that Mosley could hack it neither as a driver or as a team owner.....

#26 potmotr

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 10:59

Originally posted by equality


Riiiight :rolleyes:

I honestly think this FIA and mosley bashing goes over the top. Chill out.


Sorry, it makes me really angry. I think Mosley has poisoned the sport for the benefit of his own massive ego. There's a cartel of cronies who run Formula One like the junta of a tinpot bananna republic.

Everything from sporting decisions to FIA elections are run in a completely corrupt manner, and are accountable to no one.

Keep rolling your eyes if you're comfortable for Formula One to be run in this fashion. I'm not.

I was an Monza recently when Charlie Whiting did his final track inspect to a massive chorus of boos our section of the grandstand. Is this the behaviour of fans who have faith in the way their sport is governed?

But, returning to the topic, I think Sir Jackie Stewart has done more than anyone to illuminate the quasi-fascist regime running the sport. Long may he continue doing so.

#27 angst

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:00

Originally posted by Gareth
I am bitter, but I think you will find I am an 11 times Geoff Crammond's F1 WDC.

None won in a kilt, though, all won in my pj's.


:lol:

Cheers for that. Agree with your previous post to this...I feel the same way at times.

#28 scheivlak

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:01

Originally posted by angst


Not to mention that Mosley could hack it neither as a driver or as a team owner.....

March won 2 GPs with Max as a team owner: http://www.grandprix...ref-mosmax.html

#29 equality

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:01

Originally posted by Boing 2


As a triple world champion driver, a race winning privateer team owner, a development driver for road cars, a successful businessman, a PR spokesman and a representative of one of the worlds largest constructors he has experience in every area, the cockpit, the track, the press office and the boardroom. His experience means that his opinions are of infinite value compared to the empty words and manipulative rubbish that pours from Mosleys mouth.




If that triple former wdc says mclaren is okay to not provide a race for the fans, he is not one of the good guys in my book. No matter how you argue, that is anti racing.

The only infinite value of stewart is for the lewis hamilton fanclub. Other than that ive rarely hear stewart say decent things. But do go on glorifying him! ;) Its your world, not mine.

#30 taran

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:07

Jacky Stewart’s reputation as a driver is enviable and his career speaks for himself. His statements however are usually self-supporting or downright silly.

In his latest interview he names the drivers he considers potential (super)stars but fails to mention Vettel (who was considered hot even before Monza) and says he has his doubts about Alonso because the Spaniard didn’t handle the situation with Lewis very well.

So how did Stewart handle the situation of a younger driver who was faster than him? He had Francois Cevert signed on as #2 who was only allowed to follow the ‘great’ Scotsman around the tracks, not fight him.

So, Jacky, put this in your pipe and smoke it.

Age has obviously dulled his intellect or memory. If Cevert had done to him what Hamilton had done to Alonso, I don’t think he would have reacted much better.

#31 Orin

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:14

Originally posted by taran

Age has obviously dulled his intellect or memory. If Cevert had done to him what Hamilton had done to Alonso, I don’t think he would have reacted much better.


Cevert didn't come to Tyrell as the finished article, he served an apprenticeship with them, under the tutelage of Stewart. It's silly to compare F1 today with the F1 of 35 years ago: Hamilton joined McLaren as an equal driver, expected to challenge his teammate.

#32 taran

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:21

Originally posted by Orin


Cevert didn't come to Tyrell as the finished article, he served an apprenticeship with them, under the tutelage of Stewart. It's silly to compare F1 today with the F1 of 35 years ago: Hamilton joined McLaren as an equal driver, expected to challenge his teammate.


Apprenticeship? Yes, in the traditional way it has always been when a fast youngster was linked with a mature star driver. But Cevert was faster in 1973, as has been acknowledged by Stewart. The Frenchman could have tried for the title.

It is pretty disgraceful for Stewart to judge Alonso when he enjoyed a cushy ride regarding his own very rapid team mate.

#33 kevthedrummer

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:22

Originally posted by taran

So how did Stewart handle the situation of a younger driver who was faster than him? He had Francois Cevert signed on as #2 who was only allowed to follow the ‘great’ Scotsman around the tracks, not fight him.

So, Jacky, put this in your pipe and smoke it.

Age has obviously dulled his intellect or memory. If Cevert had done to him what Hamilton had done to Alonso, I don’t think he would have reacted much better.


That is utter nonsense. The two situations were vastly different. Stewart had nurtured Cevert since he replaced Servoz-Gavin at Tyrrell in 1970. They were close friends and Cevert was happy to follow Jackie and learn. Before the 1973 season Jackie was the quicker of the two, which was hardly surprising considering his experience. In 1973 Jackie was a deserving World Champion. At certain tracks he admitted that he felt Cevert was potentially quicker but, in an age of different values, it would never have occurred to the Frenchman to challenge his team leader. If you've ever heard them speak about Cevert it is abundantly clear that both Jackie Stewart and his wife had great affection for the man, which is hardly comparable to the Alonso/Hamilton situation. Cevert knew his time would come, albeit he never lived to realise it would have been as early as 1974. If he had passed Jackie to win a couple of races in 1973 I cannot think Jackie would have been anything but happy for his team-mate. Jackie wanted Cevert to be able to assume his role of number one at Tyrrell and hopefully deliver them another title in 1974.

#34 angst

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:25

Originally posted by scheivlak

March won 2 GPs with Max as a team owner: http://www.grandprix...ref-mosmax.html


That's all well and good, but look a little deeper. The first win came in the wet in Austria, and was a blinding drive by Brambilla. The second was largely down to retirements and Peterson being on one that day. The team, as a whole, ran on a showstring budget, the cars were half-hearted affairs (after the first couple of years) usually based loosely on their F2 models....

And how did March make their money? They sold cars to customer teams....

When Max left March they re-organised, and were a much better company for it. When they returned to F1 in their own right (not as a chassis supplier - though the 811 was a decent car, undone by the change in regs...) they did it properly...

#35 angst

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:27

Originally posted by kevthedrummer


That is utter nonsense. The two situations were vastly different. Stewart had nurtured Cevert since he replaced Servoz-Gavin at Tyrrell in 1970. They were close friends and Cevert was happy to follow Jackie and learn. Before the 1973 season Jackie was the quicker of the two, which was hardly surprising considering his experience. In 1973 Jackie was a deserving World Champion. At certain tracks he admitted that he felt Cevert was potentially quicker but, in an age of different values, it would never have occurred to the Frenchman to challenge his team leader. If you've ever heard them speak about Cevert it is abundantly clear that both Jackie Stewart and his wife had great affection for the man, which is hardly comparable to the Alonso/Hamilton situation. Cevert knew his time would come, albeit he never lived to realise it would have been as early as 1974. If he had passed Jackie to win a couple of races in 1973 I cannot think Jackie would have been anything but happy for his team-mate. Jackie wanted Cevert to be able to assume his role of number one at Tyrrell and hopefully deliver them another title in 1974.


:up:

#36 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:39

Originally posted by scheivlak

March won 2 GPs with Max as a team owner: http://www.grandprix...ref-mosmax.html


March won twice but Max wasn't running the team, he raised investment and sourced sponsorship.

They also sold second hand chassis as new cars. I wonder whose idea that was? we can only guess...

#37 Maximus

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:44

Some strange force seems to have -quite fittingly- beamed us up to the nostagia forum.

#38 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:49

Originally posted by kevthedrummer


That is utter nonsense. The two situations were vastly different. Stewart had nurtured Cevert since he replaced Servoz-Gavin at Tyrrell in 1970. They were close friends and Cevert was happy to follow Jackie and learn. Before the 1973 season Jackie was the quicker of the two, which was hardly surprising considering his experience. In 1973 Jackie was a deserving World Champion. At certain tracks he admitted that he felt Cevert was potentially quicker but, in an age of different values, it would never have occurred to the Frenchman to challenge his team leader. If you've ever heard them speak about Cevert it is abundantly clear that both Jackie Stewart and his wife had great affection for the man, which is hardly comparable to the Alonso/Hamilton situation. Cevert knew his time would come, albeit he never lived to realise it would have been as early as 1974. If he had passed Jackie to win a couple of races in 1973 I cannot think Jackie would have been anything but happy for his team-mate. Jackie wanted Cevert to be able to assume his role of number one at Tyrrell and hopefully deliver them another title in 1974.


:up:

#39 scheivlak

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:49

Originally posted by angst


That's all well and good, but look a little deeper. The first win came in the wet in Austria, and was a blinding drive by Brambilla. The second was largely down to retirements and Peterson being on one that day. The team, as a whole, ran on a showstring budget, the cars were half-hearted affairs (after the first couple of years) usually based loosely on their F2 models....

And how did March make their money? They sold cars to customer teams....

When Max left March they re-organised, and were a much better company for it. When they returned to F1 in their own right (not as a chassis supplier - though the 811 was a decent car, undone by the change in regs...) they did it properly...


If we're really nit-picking, that Stewart win bij Johnny Herbert wasn't without some luck either ;)
And those Jordan GPs wins were all "blinding drives" as well - is that an counter-argument at all?

And I regard Ronnie's Monza win not as a 'by-retirements' one.... He dominated the race, fastest lap and all.

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#40 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:54

Originally posted by equality


If that triple former wdc says mclaren is okay to not provide a race for the fans, he is not one of the good guys in my book. No matter how you argue, that is anti racing.

The only infinite value of stewart is for the lewis hamilton fanclub. Other than that ive rarely hear stewart say decent things. But do go on glorifying him! ;) Its your world, not mine.


Strange how you condemn every opinion the man has ever had or will ever have based on a single statement but your favourite team, Ferrari operated an anti racing policy for 10 years and that's ok with you? :confused:

i think you're attacking Stewart simply because he supports "the enemy".


I don't need to glorify anyone, the mans a legend and was tapped for views LONG before Hamilton arrived on the scene, opinions which a great many took seriously.

#41 equality

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:02

I dont condemn him for that single statement. I exclude him from my book of good guys for that. Do read carefully.

Aside from that i rarely if ever read anything sensible from him. Its mostly pro hamilton pro mclaren statements. Apparently you do agree on that with me. I dont know many how take his statements serious either. The FIA boss has said nobody listens to him. Who should i believe, mosley or you? O dear o dear, decisions decisions :lol:

#42 Galko877

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:04

Originally posted by HoldenRT
Jackie is no different from the notorious (or infamous) vocals fans of this board of Ferrari or McLaren or Alonso or Kimi etc. You don't even need to read the quotes or the post to know that it will be very supportive and somewhat biased. So it makes those kind of opinions redundant imo (their value).

I saw Jackie on a local TV talk show which had nothing to do with modern racing, he was talking about his life and his book. He's very respected and for good reason. He's done great things both on the track and in his efforts to improve safety. But when he starts talking about his thoughts on the current drivers or decisions it's just a bit too predictable. It's an opinion like anyone elses, but it's a very one sided one. And as with anything the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.


:up:

#43 HP

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:08

Originally posted by aditya-now
Sir Jackie is still vocal in all things Hamilton, even going as far as citing that "Niki Lauda agrees with me on that", something he has never done in all those years:

Jackie Stewart has the right to say his opinion.

Originally posted by aditya-now
I do not think that this will help Lewis in any way, it is just throwing oil into the flames. Hamilton has enough troubles of his own, he does not need Stewart to be instrumentalised.

Most people can differentiate who said what, so I don't think it's any problem. The main onus is on Hamilton to keep himself away from controversy as much as he can. In fact once he realizes that others fight for his cause, it'd be very smart to let the other do the talking, and himself focus on getting his job done.

Originally posted by aditya-now
IHow much a pure racer like Sir Frank Williams or also Gerhard Berger stand out from that crowd.

Gerhard Berger? He caused some friction between Williams and BMW. When he was removed Williams and BMW cleaned their dirty laundry inhouse, without a public blame fest. Liuzzi and Speed might have an opinion about Berger too. I don't expect Berger to keep quiet should Toro Rosso come under fire from FiA.

#44 Galko877

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:09

Originally posted by kar


Being biased doesn't automatically make you wrong. And indeed I would challenge you to find a single poster who is not biased in someone else's eyes. Everyone is, even the outwardly neutral.

It's mightily convenient to ignore someone's point of view because you think they are biased. It certainly makes it easier to think your own viewpoint is the right one when you do that. Maybe you are, and maybe you are not. But ignoring wholesale sections of opinion because you question its neutrality is preposterous.


You are right that most people are biased to a certain extent, whether it's journalists, pundits or, of course, fans. But I think there are those who are so biased that they are NEVER able to see other's points and are always predictable in their judgement, and whether it's right or wrong they will ALWAYS be supportive of the same driver/team. And Stewart is one of these very biased guys. Of course, that doesn't mean he is always wrong.

#45 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:45

Stewart has had a life long love affair, with himself.
Every time he opens his mouth, it´s in order to promote Jackie Stewart, period.
He´s attached his wagon to the Lewis Hamilton express because he knows it will get him maximum exposure. If there´s one thing any egoist can learn from him, it´s PR. Personal representation.
I hate old boy´s who don´t know when their time´s up, and Jackie´s has been up for quite a considerable while now. He really is irrelevant.

#46 taran

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 13:03

Originally posted by kevthedrummer


That is utter nonsense. The two situations were vastly different. Stewart had nurtured Cevert since he replaced Servoz-Gavin at Tyrrell in 1970. They were close friends and Cevert was happy to follow Jackie and learn. Before the 1973 season Jackie was the quicker of the two, which was hardly surprising considering his experience. In 1973 Jackie was a deserving World Champion. At certain tracks he admitted that he felt Cevert was potentially quicker but, in an age of different values, it would never have occurred to the Frenchman to challenge his team leader. If you've ever heard them speak about Cevert it is abundantly clear that both Jackie Stewart and his wife had great affection for the man, which is hardly comparable to the Alonso/Hamilton situation. Cevert knew his time would come, albeit he never lived to realise it would have been as early as 1974. If he had passed Jackie to win a couple of races in 1973 I cannot think Jackie would have been anything but happy for his team-mate. Jackie wanted Cevert to be able to assume his role of number one at Tyrrell and hopefully deliver them another title in 1974.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

I am sure Jacky would have loved for Cevert to win in 1974 after he had retired. And it is easy to like someone when they don't tarnish your own career. Yes, Stewart and Cevert were friendly. Alonso and Hamilton were also friendly at first. Sustaining that friendship when you are both fighting for wins is less easy. Especially if you are team mates, that adds a whole level of stress.

Stewart doesn't know jack-shit about such a situation because he never was in such a situation. He was #1 at Tyrrell. Yet he approves of Hamilton doing what Cevert couldnot /wouldnot do and disapproves of Alonso because he didn't "handle" the challenge properly. If Cevert had started winning races from Stewart and perhaps even won the title in 1973 (or prevented Stewart from winning by taking points away), I would bet Stewart's Rolex he would be less complimentary about Cevert.

And maybe less critical of Alonso. But then, having scant knowledge of an issue has never stopped him before from commenting.

#47 BMW_F1

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 13:04

Originally posted by equality




I honestly think this FIA and mosley bashing goes over the top. Chill out.


No doubt. People are starting to sound like a bunch of cry babies..

#48 paulogman

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 13:13

Originally posted by taran


:confused: :confused: :confused:

I am sure Jacky would have loved for Cevert to win in 1974 after he had retired. And it is easy to like someone when they don't tarnish your own career. Yes, Stewart and Cevert were friendly. Alonso and Hamilton were also friendly at first. Sustaining that friendship when you are both fighting for wins is less easy. Especially if you are team mates, that adds a whole level of stress.

Stewart doesn't know jack-shit about such a situation because he never was in such a situation. He was #1 at Tyrrell. Yet he approves of Hamilton doing what Cevert couldnot /wouldnot do and disapproves of Alonso because he didn't "handle" the challenge properly. If Cevert had started winning races from Stewart and perhaps even won the title in 1973 (or prevented Stewart from winning by taking points away), I would bet Stewart's Rolex he would be less complimentary about Cevert.

And maybe less critical of Alonso. But then, having scant knowledge of an issue has never stopped him before from commenting.

jacky won the title in 1973. hamilton and alonso lost the title in 2007.
so like it or not. I think Stewart knows what it takes to win, and thirty plus years on he is still respected.

#49 aditya-now

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 13:35

Originally posted by Gareth
I don't know about Stewart, but I need to channel my bloody frustration effectively.

:mad: (at the FIA/ICA)

:mad: (at myself, for getting so :mad: ).


That´s a good one, Gareth!!! :up:

And, truth to tell, w are all a bit in the same boat. We all need to channel our frustrations. And humor is a big help in that.

That said, many things in F1 have gone awry, I hope the "good guys" (to use that term someone brought up) will win.
Monza was a good example at that, "the good guys" won and everyone in and outside the paddock was happy.

If they (Torro Rosso, Sebastian Vettel) keep winning the skies might in time be not so rosy anymore...(even apart from the customer car issue)

Also, it has been correctly said, Stewart likes to attach himself to every populist cause.

The voice of the expert and the authority that Sir Jackie was in the 70s (safety leadership!!!), also the added color he brought to the paddock in the late 90s (remember the great drive of Rubens at Monaco 1997 to second in a Stewart Ford) have become a little tainted by the fights he got himself in and the need to always give a comment on every noise a dog makes in the 2000s.
Sometimes he could as well say "I don´t want to comment on that".


Anyway, Gareth, cheers! And, whether I agree or not, I always like reading your comments, they come straight from your heart and are no BS.

#50 scottb32

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 17:54

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Stewart has had a life long love affair, with himself.


I love my wife, but I'd never let her drive a Tyrrell.