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Lady Godiva and E.R.A. V8


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#1 martyn chapman

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 19:57

,My father bought the Godiva Kieft Gp car in the mid 60s with the spare chassis and the Speed engine,s Ltd 2.1/2 lt V8, the kieft was nearly complete when we got it , however on the day he bought it ,it had a Chrysler Hemi in it standing on bricks, as they were thinking of drag racing it , they being podge Dealy of Tardybig garage Reddich, Podge Dealy packed up and an auction was organised , dad paid £450 for the car and the spare chassis and brought the SEL V8 on the same day after the sale for £50 and thats how we bought the whole lot .
Dad was restoring a cooper Jag at this time Hot 95, he had also got GP1 ERA. E which he bought it off Jim Berry,s wife as a rolling chassis in the late 50,s and he had also bought GP2 ERA.E off Ken Flint mid 60,s with a Jag engine that went into Hot 95, originally regd, BAQ ,
GP2 had a SPL 2 seater Williams and Prichard body on it which Wilkie Wilkinson fitted ,which i think is still part of the Lindsay stable , also in the mid 50,s early 60,s dad owned ERA R2A which he sold to Barry Swan in 1963 , i was only 9 at this time and mum and dad parted , i carried on with my schooling until I left in 1968 and went to work for dad at Maplebourgh Green the Forge Garage.
The first thing i worked on was the Speed engine, GP. BW V8 only one day a week along with serving petrol at 3/6p a gallon , Ted Lloyd Jones was now semi retired , one day a week for about 6 months ,ted would come down and work with me , Ted was responsible for the Triangle SPL,s of which there where three ,The Meadows Triangle ,The Triangle Hudson Skinner SPL, The Flying Saucer Kestrel Triangle, another interesting story, anyway as ted was responsible for training my father, they thought it would be good for me to.
Ted and dad did not agree on the SEL timing design , dad wanted to do away with it , about 12 months later i went to work for Monks path Garage , and dad sold the garage after meeting his second wife ,Robbie , and they moved to Kineton , there they set up a nursing home together, as Robbie was an S.R.N., dad also started to set up his racing stable, about 2 years passed when i was approached by Robbie and dad to come and and work for them in Kineton which I did , with the promise of driving his racing cars , as dad had ,had a heart attack and Robbie would not allow him to race any more.
My first job was to restore the Monza Lister Jaguar and to work along side Norman Seeney, who taught me a hell of a lot, Norman had a lovely sense of humour and an amazing amount of patience , we finished the Monza, and George Hodge looked after the full wide angle D type engine , then Norman left to start his own business in the supply and development of Webber caburettiors
Robbie bought the final share of the Monza off John Filgate who had been a share holder along with John Harper and Keith Shellenberg, Robbie then gave me her share as she had promised which then made dad and my self equal owners, for this i would always be indebt for her kindness.
All this time the Kieft had been in store locked away , however while Norman and I was restoring the Monza we needed to crack test all the important parts , so I decided to do the same with the Kieft componants which where still on the car, so I removed them and took them to Engine Developments at Rugby, where John Judd very kindly let me loose on their crack testing facility, where i found the wishbones,on the kieft where cracked and deteriorated,all the Lister stuff was ok , so we then knew that the Kieft wishbones would have to be remade , it was about this time that I applied for the V,S.C.C.blue form , I then said to dad we may as well do the Kieft at the same time .as dad was dyslexic, I did all the paper work, that is what we did and the V.S.C.C eligibility, committee ,along with Alan Cottam came out to inspect the Monza and the Kieft at Kineton.
They gave us the go ahead and the Monza got its blue form , but they where not sure about the Kieft, but would accept the car with the SEL V8.
I had not found the Godivas at this time ,we had also been looking after Michael Glass,s ERA R2A and Pat Lindsays short nosed D type 2HYY which I had also restored, the ERA had now been sold to Brain Classic , that too is another story which I hold close to my heart, as it was the first time i ever drove a proper ERA in 1976 at Prescott. I did the hand over of R2A and carried on with the Monza.
At this point Robbie died suddenly and every thing stopped. Then I went to work for David Prophet and worked there for about 12 months, and returned to dad in Kineton later on. .
When I returned we then took the Monza to a practise day at Silverstone Circuit to do some testing . we being me and my step brother Jamie , we had a very successful days testing and on the way out of Silverstone Circuit , I needed to stop to take a leak, so we stopped by the main entrance and i ran over to the road to what was an old aircraft Nisan hut, which was all falling down and rotting out and as I was taking the call of nature, I looked up[ as you do] I then noticed an aircraft propeller above the door frame , with no door on it , and painted on it was ,Power Engines Ltd, !mmm! I thought to myself this looks interesting , so I went inside but there was nothing in there, but the old, dyno, going rusty, as the roof had come off, as I walked out I notice the floor change from concrete to wood,( Now This What Dreams Are Made Of ) , I then signalled to Jamie to come over and asked him to bring and bar out of the coach as i had found what I thought was a trap door to a cellar, it was covered in sheep shit and leaves and had been sealed for some years by the look of it , we scrapped around the edge and finally managed to lift the door up , only to hear (plink plonk) "oh no water and I immediately thought that if anything was down there it would be no good, how wrong I was , we then got the broom out of the coach and dipped the tank, only 2 inches on the handle , we then got the torch and shone it down , revealing steps , it was very dark and wet and grim , we then hung upside down like a couple of bats spanning this large air raid room , I could then just make out about 30 feet away Two large piles of stuff covered over with a rotting sheet, so it was on with the wellies and down we went , I led the way as Jamie was a bit scared as the torch was only small and the batteries nearly flat we splashed across the room to the other end , lifted up the sheet to reveal 2 pallets full of engine stuff , luckily out of the water all on pallets. I could not believe my eyes Three blocks, 16 cylinder heads ,2 cranks, 20 odd cam boxes, water pumps and timing chests, 2 cardboard boxes, full of timing gears and cam shafts the boxes where in the water, I looked at the cam boxes and immediately got goose bumps all over as I saw the Godiva Lady Disk on the top of one of the cam boxes, I then knew immediately they where the Godiva,s V8 2 1/2 litre spares and what a lot of it , we left everything where it was and shut the trap door making sure that we covered our tracks so that no one would know that we had been there, even replacing the sheep shit and leaves all round the seal of the trap door.
As it was a Friday there was nothing we could do , as the circuit was closed, that was the longest weekend of my life and could not wait to get back to tell dad
First thing Monday morning I rang the gate house at Silverstone, to be told that the building used to belong to Bill Lacey , and that was all the lady could tell me.
I told dad and he told me to ring Bill Morris as he would have Bill Laceys phone no, I did as I was ordered , and got a very inquisitive response , as to why ,what and when ,after that he begrudgingly passed on the phone no , I did not tell him why , just that dad wanted it .
I then phoned there and then and spoke to Bill Laceys ,daughter , who said he was out messing about with an aircraft and would not be back till about tea time ,but she would get him to phone back, he was in his eighties then (phew) .
That evening the phone rang and I told him the story, he said that all of this stuff should have been collected 3 years ago " oh dear he said I bet its all ruined " I assured him that it was not , he then told me that it all belonged to Doc Murfield "alarm bells " I think back that is why the Bloody ford used to blow everything off in the 60,s it was secretly running the Godiva V8.I think it was a galaxy this is now questionable?????as it could have been a anglia perhaps someone else knows????.
Bill Lacey passed on, Docs phone, no I thanked him , and then I was hot on the trail.
I then phoned Doc and bingo ,he said he did not know what was left at Bill Laceys ,but he still had the engine that they had developed in the Galaxy in the 60,s in his garage in London and would sell it to us , the whole lot if I could get it all together at Kineton, and then he would come up that weekend and bring the complete engine in a van, this I did.
"YES a complete engine as well, I could not believe it and neither could dad, a miracle.
Doc turned up as promised that weekend ,I opened the van and " WOW " dad and I looked at each other and smiled , we paid £1.200. for the whole lot which was a fair deal and every body was happy , me even more so, as I knew this was the start of my GP car proper , as I never did like the off set feeling of the Monza.
As Doc was about to leave he mentioned that there used to be a Godiva show engine in the Godiva Pub in Coventry, he did not know what it consisted of in side , but the last he had heard of it was , in Harrys bungalow hall used as a telephone stand , so it was back on the trail again to try and find it and buy it which we did a week later for £500 . This engine we used in the car as a dummy run to fit the chassis ancillarys after that it was used for the same purpose a telephone table in dads hall in Kineton it was just a basic dummy, with no crank or internals , however it did have a good set of solex IDA,s which we would need to use as the V.S.C.C. did no allow, Webber IDA,s for the blue form, the rest could have been used if needed in the future , at this time I had just ordered a pay rise , to which dad replied I have just spent your pay rise , now go and get on with it , which I did very happily imagining that this is what Cyril Keift must have been praying for in 1954 incredibly the same year as I was born, so out of the store came the Kieft and I started to work on it , I informed the V.S.C.C. of what had happened and they were very happy with what we was going to do , that was to fit the Godiva in the car and fit the SEL in the spare chassis at a later date . But we never did get around to the latter , while dad was alive we carried on racing the Monza and any spare time was spent on the E type E.R.A,s , during this time we also had patterns made to produce a batch of cylinder heads for all the E.R.A. owners , as Patrick Lindsay had approached us as he needed a new head for Remus and we needed two for the E types, I will add that we was having trouble with the pattern collapsing on the top water jacket, when Bill Morris stepped in and saved the day with an old idea that used to be used in the pattern industry years before, so thanks to Bill Morris for remembering this process , which worked and every one with an E.R.A. had a new cylinder head as they where all pretty shot at 40 years old ,( but that is another story). At this time we took on more labour in the guise of Allan Wallace , who was a friend of mine from my side car racing days , he was a brilliant engineer and we restored the Lotus 30/ 40 MK 11 , I could see financial pressure on dad at this time , so I left to work just down the road leaving dad and Allan to get on with it. Some time later i got a phone call from dad as to what i wanted to do with my half share of the Monza , as John Pearson wanted to buy it , I did not mind dad selling it as long as he reinvested my half in the Kiefts for me to drive in the future , I never fell out with dad it was always someone else who caused the friction in those later years, but that is another story , which i might write in the future. Then my dad suddenly passed away and my inheritance was lost, the only thing I manage to retrieve was my grandfathers tools and my dads tools and the SEL V8 , plus I was invoiced by Bill Morris for the tools ,which left me totally distraught ,lost in grief for my dad and then very angry, but now I just feel very sad , !!!Codicil!! , yet again that is another story.
Bill Lacey told me that they had fully developed the Godiva in the 60s secretly by re stroking the crank and fitting new liners, and boring out to over 3 litres and I bet this is the engine in the car plus those IDAs were fitted mid 60s and are not V.S.C.C. eligible as the engine was meant to run solex,s the same as the show engine or the Cooper Bristol, of the time, they did mean to run injection but never did , the heads where there but un machined and the injection never supplied .
I will finish off this epic by saying just before Cyril Kieft died he gave me his full blessing and permission to build the SEL Kieft and even supplied me with a genuine Kieft badge and also to be finished of in Cyril Green , I did the Historic show at, Stoneliegh in 2006 and dedicated the stand to Kieft as a memorial to the man and his mark , at that time I also met the Kieft family who also gave me their blessing in building the last GP Kieft using the SEL GP 2 1/2 litre V8 which i have now started by putting right what Ted Lloyd Jones taught me all those years ago.
So there will be another Grand Prix Kieft one day in the future.
I often wondered why they never fitted the SEL ,and in 1969 Ted Lloyd Jones and i tried to do this but it would not fit as it was to long as it is 3 feet in length this is the reason the second chassis has no front cross member ,how ever the diff casing is cast into the main chassis rails , and as a teenager i wondered how they did this Ted Lloyd Jones told me they stood the rails up on end and cast into the rails in the foundry in this way, this is also in magnesium , I thought that this was amazing .This is the chassis in Bill ,s roof at this time. Ted also explained to me the inside of the SEL Block ,is made in the same way as the Norman roof of the old Coventry Cathedral that was blitz during the second world war as the pattern maker was a close friend of Alderman Harry Weston and Leslie Brooke they did this just as an exercise as the SEL was built to beat the Silver Arrows of Mercedes Benz.
I have checked this out and it is true there are Norman arches in the roof of the upper block and 5 rows of Pillars down the block as the block splits into two halves , this a high compression at 13/1 that was meant to run to 10,500 rpm in 1954 with a very short stroke .
im very lucky with the SEL as i have a choice of cars that i could build,ie 21/2 GP ERA,conaught,VANWALL,HWM,or KIEFT GP,ide prefere to do the latter ,but i just might build a ERA which leslie brooke and leslie johnson were going to do,and thats another story.
A full story of the SEL V8 will follow later on if there is good feed back
I bet you are all glad i have found the punctuation buttons on this thing you would all be blue by now haha .
Martin Chapman

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#2 Doug Nye

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 22:06

:love:

Good heavens above!

DCN

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 22:09

Fascinating story, Martyn :up:

Now, about the SEL engine...

#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 22:23

Originally posted by Doug Nye
:love:

Good heavens above!

DCN

^^^ What he said!

When my brain is less tired I might be able to take it in .... :lol:

#5 fuzzi

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:44

Thank goodness I found this in the morning!

More please Martyn this is fascinating. :wave:

#6 fines

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 10:08

Fabulous! :D

A good [if difficult :rolleyes:] read.;)

#7 RogerFrench

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 13:04

What a wonderful, fascinating post! What is more, with all the "another story" instances, there must be hours of similar reading to come, with luck.
Thank you so much for writing this one.

#8 Paul Parker

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 13:33

You couldn't make it up.

Incredible, proving yet again that truth is stranger than fiction.

I rather think serendipity had some hand in this.

#9 bradbury west

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 17:16

Don't worry about the punctuation stuff, Martyn, the narrative stands on its own as it is. Keep it up, please
Roger Lund.

#10 sandy

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 05:13

Originally posted by fines
[A good [if difficult :rolleyes:] read.;) [/B]


Really Fines, the story of the year, perhaps the find of the century and you are quibbling over the writing style - do us a favor Martyn, please sit down in front of the keyboard and write down in detail the story of your life, the whole piece so far is just fascinating. It was as if I was going down that cellar with you, so vivid a description.

#11 martyn chapman

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 21:44

hi sandy,many thanks for your kind words,and that also goes to the rest of you that have replied to my epic,as for my life story,if i was to write what i know about certain cars i would have to move abroad,especially lister jaguars.
i'm working on the follow up on the GP speed engine at the moment.
I am also trying very hard to send a cutaway and some photos to the thread,but i've given up so many times now i've lost count.i've come very close to sticking my fist through this thing,
so i now just go up my workshop and calm down,i've tried reading bira on how to load images and just reading it blows my mind,i much prefer to go and play in my barn with one of my cars than loose my temper with this thing,
my wife as also tried to send these and she like me has given up.i bet it is so simple when you know how.
Did you like the heading of my epic,i did that to see who were the pervs out there, hee,hee hee,.login in expecting to see some long haired blond with big boobs riding a horse through coventry naked but again i couldn't get the picture to send.heehee ,thanks to you all again,martyn.

#12 Vitesse2

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 22:15

Martyn: if you can email them to me at richardarmstrong @ fsmail.net (just omit the spaces around the @) I'll post them for you. Including the naked lady ....;)

#13 sandy

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 23:59

Martyn, As well as taking up Vitesse's offer if you wish to also bring them up on TNF yourself then perhaps you could try again but not using Image Shack. I tried to use Image Shack which has received the most attention and of which most advice has given in this forum but I could never get it to work and then I found Photobucket and have had no problems, it is very easy to use. Can I ask as to whether you can load your photos into the computer? If not then let us know and we can advise on how to do this. And then by using Photobucket you can put them into TNF.

#14 fines

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 09:05

Originally posted by martyn chapman
Did you like the heading of my epic,i did that to see who were the pervs out there, hee,hee hee,.login in expecting to see some long haired blond with big boobs riding a horse through coventry naked but again i couldn't get the picture to send.heehee ,thanks to you all again,martyn.

Like this: Posted Image?

Now we're all busted! :blush: :lol:

#15 martyn chapman

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 21:39

hi sandy,thanks for the the offer of help,yes we have a scanner and the photos and cutaway are in the gallery,and it seems that's where they want to stay, i've got a waste bin by the side of the laptop but no bucket is that what i'm doing wrong,i told the wife it would be something simple,heeheehee,if you would please explain it to us we will have another go,.martyn

#16 Tony Matthews

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 22:43

Martyn, have you checked your e-mails?

#17 martyn chapman

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 14:34

I would think a lot of people have not even heard of Leslie Brooke or alderman Harry Weston ,Leslie Brooke was a precious metals supplier and metal merchant, a racing driver and technical advisor to various company’s in and around Coventry he was also a very close friend of Leslie Johnson of ERA LTD of Dunstable .
Before WW11 he built and raced the Brooke special and raced and owned the ex Dobson ERA R7b after the war he had numerous
Success, in both these cars.
In1946 Humphrey cook moved the ERA co to Dunstable from Donington as he had just about had enough of the E type ERAs
bad luck and he couldn’t face investing any more money in the projects so he sold the E types and then sold the co to Leslie Johnson a few months later.
almost immediately L J bought back GP1 and bought back GP2 some time later,GP2 ran as a team car in 1947 and L B took it to Indianapolis under team ERA and broke the gearbox in practice.
so they took some gears out of the gearbox just to start and get the start money back.
Brookey came back from Indy smitten with V8s so much so he and L J decided to build a full F1 GP car of 21/2 litres and it would be a V8,as he believed this was the way to go ,so flush with cash from the sale of gp2 and the sale of the Brooke special they set the wheels in motion, LJ was to secretly build a rolling chassis and Brookey would build the engine ,and so the seed was sown.
The engine would be built in Coventry as this was brookeys home and place of work.
This is where Alderman Harry Weston comes into the picture, he was lord mayor of Coventry and a close friend of brookey, he was also managing director of Alfred Herbert tools and other company’s in Coventry and he knew a lot of top people in the motor industry, HW and LB used pattern and model of Harper road Coventry to do the patterns as one of the directors was another friend of HW .they approached Geoffrey Roots of Roots group to help in the design and he did by putting his best two designers on the secret project in the guise of Bill Oliver ,assisted by Ron Dalton throughout the job, Geoffrey roots himself played with the timing design in whatever spare time he had during office hours and when he was at work,.
The speed engine as it was called was an all ally 21/2 litre v8 with twin overhead cam shafts a 24 valve with 2 inlets and one exhaust valve per cyl, of 13 to 1 compression ratio, with slough pistons keeping the compression in the head, no water passes between head and block.
all this was well under way when disaster struck, Leslie Johnson had a massive heart attack in 19 53 and was advised to give it all up, so he sold the ERA co ,to the zenith carburettor, c ,who itself was taken over by Solex,
The G type which Leslie Johnson had built was sold to the Bristol aircraft co and was altered into a le mans car and called the Bristol 450.This car was eventually broke up.
Leslie Brooke was already well into the pattern process and had started on the major components, and he decided to push on with the engine project in the hope that he might be able to go it on his own there were manufactures screaming out for a GP engine of 21/2 litres ,
The design incorporated Wills comp rings and no head gaskets as every thing was a perfect precession machine fit as the engine was machined on all new machines as the Luftwaffer had destroyed a lot of the old machine company s along with Coventry cathedral in the Coventry blitz and as an exercise they got the pattern makers to do the inside of the block the same as the inside and roof of the old cathedral complete with columns and Norman arches as internal webs and oil supply s to the crank ,the five rows of pillars house the studs that hold the upper and lower crankcase together ,believe me I have checked this out and its true ,what an eccentric lot they were
The heads and block were cast i RR50 top grade ally and the cam boxes and front casting in magnesium along with the front cam drive bevel gearboxes which housed the bevel gears to drive the 4 cams. The cam boxes are a nightmare as the cams run in needle roller bearings, 150 per bearing and 3 per box that ,s 450 per box and 4 boxes that s 1800 needles in all 4 boxes and each box also has a roller bearing and a ball bearing each end and the needles all have to be fitted individually.
There is a design fault in the end of the exhaust cams as they did not allow for a bush or a small bearing in the end of the bevel drive box ,I have studied the engine and this was its downfall they expected the end of the cam which holds two bevel gears not to whip, which it did as it sticks out by 4"inches beyond the end of the cam carrier, f you look at the cutaway carefully you can see the problem quite clearly they also expected some of the oil to return down this casting which it could not do as the two taper roller bearings when spinning would have acted like a wall the oil built up and BANG a hydraulicing affect blew the casting to bits all around the test room this happened at 4800 rpm ,the engine locked up in the process and twisted the end of the cams by 5 degrees ,and chipping two of the bevel gears in the process.
Two new exhaust cams are going to have to be made longer at the drive end to accommodate a bush or bearing, and David Newman has said he can do these for me, the only problem i can foresee is the bevel drive housings, these will have to be redesigned to my spec,
i have one original housing which will need to be cad cam scanned through 360 degrees ,then handing as these castings are left and right handed we need to do the alteration on the end of the casting to house the bearing carrier, then we go again praying at the same time. All this is on hold and pause at the moment as i need to sell my ex Coulon Paoli Martini F3 car to finance it ,which I do not really want to do as I have only just finished a complete restoration on it and have not driven it yet.
I recon the BW is going to need about 20,000 to do the redevelopment work unless some kind person like Ron Dennis or Bernie Eccelstone or even shell and Ferarri steps in to help me as I would like my thoughts and spec blueprinted by another engine before I continue.
The cost of all this and building a Grand Prix car around the engine and Wilson pre selector ,and Lister diff which i have will probably break me ,but I am determined to hear this thing run one day as only a hand full of people have ever heard it.
The other problem I have is words spoken to me by my father ,he said to me along time ago do not you ever spend any of your own money on the engine as no one else ever has ,only LB ,shell Bp and sponsorship from over 50 company s in and around Coventry and Warwickshire ,This engine was backed and sponsored in the same way Raymond Mays backed and sponsored ERA and BRM by going out and approaching people for finance and help to proceed I have not done this ,I have financed it so far a bit at a time as and when I have been able to it I dread to think how much I have put into it so far ,I was hoping to use the spare chassis that s in Bill Morris's roof but that s now past history.
So i have decided to pick up where LB and LJ left off by building that 21/2 litre V8 ERA .and as the F type was stillborn I will call it the F type V8 ERA ,quite appropriate I think I do not care what anyone says as that s what I am doing .
I have built a space frame chassis around the engine steadily over the last few years ,hoping perhaps one day to finish it and just demonstrate it so people can hear it I would be frightened to race it in vengeance for fear of breaking it, but it would be a dream to demonstrate it at Goodwood one day, any way back to the design
It has two water pumps,4 oil pumps,2 pressure,2 scavenge ,one pressure supply s the bottom end and one the top end ,it has 3 springs per valve which I am going to cut down to 2,.it has 24 valves ,two special Lucas 8 cyl magnetoes and twin plug heads, the exhaust ports are cooled via an aircraft design by squirting cool water on the port inside the head, it has 4 unique solex downdraught pumper carbs ,and 2 AC fuel pumps driven of the back of the inlet cams via a concentric lobe built in to the cam,
It has a 60mm stroke 8mm shorter than the godiva a 80 mm bore ,so its over square and a rever, the con rods are beautifully made and much stronger than the Godiva, the nitralloy billet lay stall crankshaft is also beautifully made running in 5 main bearing carriers with Vandervell copper backed shell bearings, The pistons are wedge shaped and new rings will have to be found as they are missing, so there you have it a full formula 1 ERA V8 all ally engine of 21/2 litres with access to remove rods and pistons without removing the heads or splitting the crankcase, I am always open to advice and input in this project and hope to one day be able to finish what LB and LJ and HW and SHELL BP started in the early 50s,i would just like to add i have a complete set of original full size blue prints for every part of the Speed engine which have been donated to the project 50 years after they where drawn , thanks go to Ron Dolton ,after I placed a small article in Classic and Sports Car .
Wonderful to think that the engine and its original drawings should be reunited after 50 years of being apart and both one off.
Again feed back will be very interesting and any help or information will be gratefully received and i thank you all for the nice feed back on the origanal story at the beginning of this thread.

Epitaph
After the engine blew up on test they where going to redevelop the problems but BRM and Mays where having bigger problems with the V16 and Shell BP decided to pull the sponsorship and redirect it with the technical help of the men involved and others like Reg Parnell to Mays and BRM as everyone was getting feed up with the unreliablity of the V16 .
In my opinion they should have stuck with both the Coventry V8,s as I believe the V16 was far to technicaly advanced for its time, do not get me wrong the BRM was a wonderful achievement but just so bloody unreliable with to many moving components a lot of other company s suffered when this happened but Mays got his way as usual and even with all the redirected help and finance the BRM disgraced yet again in front of the Queen Mother with Stirling moss in the seat and British hopes again where at a low.
It s ironic that today 60 odd years later the F1 cars are running 2 1/2 litre V8s very successfully i think they all made a big mistake not finishing and releasing the Godiva and the developed Speed Engine i think the 50,s would have been even better than is was and Britain would have been in the front with development instead of those red and silver cars it would have just been nice to see some British Racing Green mixing it with the Red and Silver.




List of companys involved .
Avondale eng Co
Auto Machinary Co Ltd
Alpha eng co
Acton bolt co ltd
George Angus ltd
Sir W.G. Armstrong Whitworth aircraft Ltd
Barnes Accessories .Blacksmiths &Equipment Engineers
Bowden Eng,
W V booker,
British piston ring co,
Brown bros aircraft ltd,
Bundy tubing ltd,
John Bull rubber co,
Carter Halls ltd,
Champion spark plug co ltd,
V.L. Churchill co ltd,
Clarendon pressing co,
Cornercroft Ltd


Coventry guage and tool ltd,
Cross Manufacturing co ltd,
Coventry electrical appliances ltd,
City plating ltd,
Coventry Malable & alluminium ltd,
AC Delco div of General Motors ltd,
D.K. Gardener Esq,
Gears & Componants,
Glacier metals co ltd,
Alfred Herbert ltd,

#18 fines

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 15:41

So, if Leslie Brooke came back from Indy smitten with V8s, that must mean the Novi! Very interesting! Will have to do some reading in a new light...

#19 David McKinney

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 16:15

Another fascinating story, Martyn :up:

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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 19:49

Every post you make is worth a double read, Martyn... thank you...

As for the criticism of Imageshack, I think that's unwarranted. I call upon it dozens of times every week and have no trouble at all. This is why I have posted screen prints of the pathway to be taken to post pictures via that method. Anyone having trouble with it is doing something wrong.

Step by step... after opening Imageshack you just browse, select, type in your e.mail address and click 'host it', all of which are close to each other in this pic, shown as things appear immediately after you click on 'browse' (though I have moved the browsing window to one side for clarity, 'browse', e.mail box and 'host it' are all just to the right of the browsing window) :

Posted Image

This is the result.

Posted Image

You will notice just below that major advertisement there is a box with 'include details'... you will probably want to 'untick' that. This is immediately over a URL string which is identified on the far right by the words 'hotlink for forums (1)'. You will see that I've highlighted that in red, while the 'thumbnails for forums (1)' is highlighted in pink.

You put your cursor over that url and left click (the pic I've posted shows it at this stage, with the url string highlighted) and then right click, then you left click on 'copy' in the dialog box that appears, paste to your post. You don't need to make any other preparation with imagecodes or anything else, just paste it into your post where you want the picture to appear.

#21 martyn chapman

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 21:59

Thanks Ray, I am not criticising image shack,the problem here is driver error,i have only been using this thing for the odd e mail and ebay,for 12 months as i never learnt to type when younger,i have found this thing more frustrating than working on any car ,im not a computer boff but i am trying,my wife says yes i am very trying.heehee. we are going to give image shack a go next week as i have some photos to show you all.many thanks,martyn.

#22 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 23:00

Martyn, we are all anxious to see your pics...

It's easy to avoid 'driver error' if you follow the simple steps outlined above.

#23 Tony Matthews

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 23:10

Martyn, the second part of your epic tale was as good as the first - I wish I was in the position to help financially, but if best wishes help, you've got them. I can't post the photo's I sent you as ImageShack says they are 'corrupt files', but I'll find a way, there is no problem with copyright. And I'm very keen to see the cutaway!

#24 martyn chapman

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 15:23

Sel V8
the rest of the list of sponcers that helped that seemed to have got lost in that big internet hole in the sky
Goerge Holdsworth Esq
Harris Tools Ltd
Hepworth@Grandage
H C Holt Esq
International Paints Ltd
J Leete @ Co
Joseph Lucas Ltd
Lea Francis Cars Ltd
Lockheed Hydraulic Brake CO Ltd
Manganese Bronze Brass Co Ltd
Mavara Imports
Matterson Huxley@Watson Ltd
Mintex(British Belting @Asbestos) Ltd
David Murray Esq
Pollard Bearings Ltd
Ransome @Marles Ltd
Reynolds @Coventry Chain Co
Rolls-Royce Ltd
Eric Randle Esq
Shell-Mex and B.P. Ltd
Seager Clips Ltd (Sheepbridge Engineering)
Self Changing Gears Ltd
Solex Ltd
Sterling Metals Ltd
CR Tipping @ Co Ltd
Unbrako Ltd
Wills Rings Ltd
James Walker Ltd
Raymond Wills Esq
Harry Weston
Bill Oliver
Ron Dalton

Well i think that is it Martyn

#25 martyn chapman

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 20:59

Theres no one more anxious than me wanting to see the cutaway on this site plus i have taken loads of photos and we have tried for 5 hours to do this and no go ,im' fed up now and so is the wife,and so is the daughter,is it because thing is vista i dont know why the hell dont they make it as easy as sending an email we have sent it to ray hoping that he can do it for us,meanwhile im' going to send for the book called vista for idiots and see if we can do it then.

#26 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 19:11

Posted Image


I did it dad here is the long awaited picture everyone has been waiting for, The Cutaway

Love, your daughter Sha xxxxxx :clap:

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 20:28

Fantastic!

To learn that there was a Pommy engine for the 2.5 formula that was forestalled as well as the Godiva V8, and that it's been preserved and may well run one day, that's great news... and now to see the cutaway.

It's very clear it was designed for front engined cars, I wonder how it would have adapted to rear engined types?

#28 martyn chapman

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 21:08

Hi ray, finally ,got it,thanks to daughter,I know conaught were after it as i have proof, alot of teams wanted it and also the godiva,but they would'nt release them,more photos tomorro night .martyn.

#29 wolf sun

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 21:28

Bravo the Chapmans, father and daughter!!! :clap:

Somehow I´ve managed to overlook this thread until now...brilliant, absolutely fascinating stuff! I sincerely hope that you will get financial help for your project, Martyn. Please keep coming back to these shores to share more of what you know and what is on your mind.
:up: :up: :up:

#30 Tony Matthews

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 21:56

Thank you Ayesha, as a famous American, who's name, as usual, eludes me, once said, 'You got a bunch of guys just about to turn blue, here!'. Point is, are you going to tell your dad how you did it?

#31 RTH

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 22:33

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Thank you Ayesha, as a famous American, who's name, as usual, eludes me, once said, 'You got a bunch of guys just about to turn blue, here!'.


That would be this chap then Tony ?

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=QIc6jp3Af2A

#32 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 00:04

Spot on, Richard, whenever I see that I feel like lighting up a ceegar!

#33 fuzzi

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 08:55

Aren't children wonderful?:wave:

#34 kayemod

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 12:39

Originally posted by fuzzi
Aren't children wonderful?:wave:


Most certainly, and what would they do without us?

#35 PeterElleray

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:49

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Thank you Ayesha, as a famous American, who's name, as usual, eludes me, once said, 'You got a bunch of guys just about to turn blue, here!'. Point is, are you going to tell your dad how you did it?


hmmm - that would be apollo 11 capcom (and apollo 16 lm pilot to be) charles duke in response to neil armstrong's 'houston, tranquility base here, the eagle has landed' , onboard the apollo 11 lunar module eagle immediately after touchdown on the sea of tranquility, july 20th 1969. full quote concludes with 'thanks a lot'..

bad case of serious anoraksia ...

oh, and its on you tube (of course)

peter

#36 RTH

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:15

Peter I think you need to tell us you reseached that and didn't just know it by heart !!;)

#37 PeterElleray

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:55

Originally posted by RTH
Peter I think you need to tell us you reseached that and didn't just know it by heart !!;)


Richard - i very much regret to say that there was no research and its embedded in my brain.... if there is one thing i will be forever grateful for its being 11 years old in july 1969 - exactly the right age to be in complete awe at the goings on a quarter of a million miles away. thanks to the wonders of the net i now have much of the film shot at the time, but am disappointed to have discovered that the bbc have allegedly wiped the original live broadcast, chaired by james burke (not allen) with patrick moore in the martin brundle seat - because it was largely in b&w and no one would be interested in that.... or so i have read.

i think we've been here before..

back to lady godiva i think, what a great thread this is (or was, before we landed on the moon).

peter

#38 RTH

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 15:16

:)

#39 Doug Nye

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 16:58

Brilliant stuff - thank you Martyn...and good luck with the project.

DCN

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#40 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:23

Posted Image

F TYPE E.R.A.V8

Here we go dad pictures on the way and cause you wanted them big i will have to load 1 at a time :clap: ;)

#41 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:24

Posted Image

Here is picture no 2 ;)

#42 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:26

Posted Image

Picture no 3 :clap:

#43 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:28

Posted Image

Picture no 4 :p

#44 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:30

Posted Image

Picture no 5 ;)

#45 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:31

Posted Image

Picture no 6 :wave:

#46 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:36

Posted Image


Picture no 7 ;)

#47 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:38

Posted Image

Picture no 8 ;)

#48 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:42

Posted Image

Picture no 9 ;)

#49 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 18:44

Posted Image

Last one no 10 ;)

All you pictures you sent over all on now

Sha :clap:

#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 19:39

Just magnificent, Ayesha!

I'm sure dozens here will be thankful when they open this thread today...

Can I ask, though, what those components sticking right out the front of the engine are?

And that is a stunning amount of distance between the cylinders... is it all full of water?