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Lady Godiva and E.R.A. V8


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#51 fines

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 20:43

Goodness gracious! :love: Hallelujah! :clap:

Sha, you've done well, kid! You're father should be proud!

Of both, you and the car! :D

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#52 martyn chapman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 20:58

Hi Ray,the componants sticking right out front are water pumps one for each side of the engine,just beyond those are the mags,one is not shown,under those are the oil pumps,2 pressure and two scavenge,one oil pump is bigger than the other,same on the scavenge side,There is a web in between the liners,but enough room to fit oversize liners to increase engine size to 4 litres i would think,dont forget the strokes are only 60 mm long with 1" at the bottom for o rings,the liners are quite short,
There are two o rings at the bottom of the liner and one at the top under the top hat of the liner, so i would think there is enough water and not to much.hope this answers your thoughts.martyn.

#53 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 21:04

You just beat me to it Martyn, I know what they are because I've looked at the CUTAWAY! I'm suprised by the size and complexity, and I'd have thought they must absorb a lot of power.

#54 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 21:20

Yeah, I looked at the cutaway too... in fact, that's where I first began wondering... I wouldn't have reckoned on water pumps that size...

Martyn, that gulf between the cylinders is just huge by any standard. If, perhaps, they were seeking to prevent gasket problems between cylinders, that might be some reason, but whether it be aluminium or water in the gap it all means a lot of extra weight.

#55 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 18:20

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Here we go a couple more pictures for your collection :clap:

Dad this is big as they will go without blurring the picture

Sha :wave: :p :kiss:

#56 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 18:22

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That's it for tonight only the 2 please enjoy :clap: :up: :up: :up: :up:

#57 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 18:34

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ayesha Chapman
[B]Posted Image

Well, that's ANOTHER surprise...

Thanks again Ayesha, you like your smilies!

#58 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 06:10

I do like my smiles yes :clap:
I enjoy trying to help my parents especially with this as i know what my dad has acheived over the many many years and hopes to acheive in the future.
And for my mum being by his side all the way through :clap:
I am very proud to be Martyn Chapman's daughter and i am very very proud of my dad :wave: :D :up: :up:

#59 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 06:28

Originally posted by Ayesha Chapman
I am very proud to be Martyn Chapman's daughter and i am very very proud of my dad :wave: :D :up: :up:

Bravo!! :up: :up:

Thank you, Martyn and Ayesha, for these absolutely fascinating stories and photos. Please keep them coming. :wave:

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#60 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 20:03

Just staggering!

Thanks very much to the Chapmans, father, mother and daughter. All we need now is a pic of the crankshaft!

#61 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 09:34

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The Gentleman standing around the engine in this picture from left to right are as follows :D

Leslie Brooke , Ron Dalton , Bill Oliver And Alderman Harry Weston :wave:

#62 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 09:37

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Please find the pictures attached of the Crank

Sha :D

#63 Geoff.Harrison

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:24

Martyn,
Wonderful story and pics - my father worked for Leslie Brooke from 1939 - 1950 and I have a fewof the letters written by Leslie to father whilst he was in the R.E.M.E. during the war.
Incidently L B won the George Medal as leader of a rescue squad in the Coventry air raids.
L.B and father were involved in the design and proposed production of a small, low cost side valve Diesel engine for use on pumps etc., to be made at L.B's company ( Coventry Motor Spares) .
Whilst father was away in the Army , L.B paid him a 'retainer' of 5 guineas per month - a great help to mother bringing up two small boys in those austere days.
We lived a short distance from L.B's house in Stoke Park, Coventry and a Sunday walk invariably ended there , one recollection being in the cockpit of one of the 4CLT Maseratis which LB, Parnell and the Ashmore brothers were racing.
L.B was also a bit of a motor trader , and father used whatever was available - a white LHD BMW 328 being one of his favourites.
The only recall I have of L.B's Indy trip with GP2 , was a battery powered model railway and checked jerkins which he brought back from the States for myself and my brother.
I know father went to ERA at Dunstable with L.B and the early Prescott and Shelsley meetings.
Any heavy score marks still remaining on the gearbox casing of GP2 were due to L.B trying to split the casing using a chisel and mallet !
During a house move, father found some works ERA E type drawings in the loft which I believe he passed onto your Dad
Unfortunately no photograhs remain of those days , only one father squatting on the front wheel of an unclothed GP2.

#64 martyn chapman

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 20:17

Hi Geoff.,lovely story,and its nice to know somebody's out there that had a connection with LB,rearly nice places lofts,it's amazing whats found in them.
The other week i bought a photograph of Ebay of GP2 at Indy on indy type balloon slick tyres ,the car is painted in british racing green ,i presume as it is a black and white picture and not the colour the car is know,this was also found in a loft .?DO YOU STILL HAVE THE TRAIN SET,wouldn't mind a copy of your pic of GP2,for my file,martyn,

#65 Geoff.Harrison

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 18:39

Martyn,
The photo of GP2 at Indy you refer seems familiar and have searched amongst fathers old stuff to no avail .
What I have found is the Autosport 1955 writeup on the Brooke-Weston V8 with the superb Theo Page
sectioned drawing.
One question - the roller chain couplings between crankshaft and exhaust camshaft and between ex. camshaft and inlet camshaft - hardly conducive to maintaining timing due to the inherant backlash of this type of coupling.
Also found the Motor Sport 1986 article on the Kieft and Speed / Brooke -Weston engine.
Also from December 1946 The Motor , a two part article on the E-Type by Pomeroy , with green colour tinted pics.
A b+w photo taken in a workshop / garage of GP1 (?) , captioned Jersey 47 or 48 , Peter Whitehead ,
George Abecassis , four others in pic inclusive two mechanics working on the car and a b+w photo of LB in R7B taken in 1945.
Geoff

#66 martyn chapman

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 20:19

hi geoff,thanks for the pics,i have re designed the timing drive,i did'nt like those horrible chain drives.
I am going to use a three pin drive system,i would have liked to have used a tooth belt but oil in the housing and rubber don't go together,the fine spline on both shafts will still allow me to alter the cam timing,however i am a bit worried about flexibility and the lack of it with a pin system,i am still thinking about this one,
thanks, martyn

#67 fw07c

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 15:43

Does anyone know how many Speed Engines (SEL) where made. I have a vague recollection that AC used a SEL engine in the 1920's.

Cheers

#68 marchof73

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 22:39

Martyn,thanks so much for sharing your stories,and Ayesha for the Photos ,which really put the icing on the cake.I only just got to read the stories as I only got back on the web this week after the effect of Hurricane Ike on Houston Tx.
I always thought it was a shame that Climax believed Ferrari,s horsepower claims- it surely could have been a race if not championship engine.
Is the Climax Pub mentioned still in existence-it was a hangout of a lot of apprentices from Coventry in the late 60,s,also the Jaguar Pub nearby.
Ian

#69 fw07c

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 14:18

Its is a very interesting story Martyn. Just a few questions for you.

Where was Speed Engines factory based?
How many years did they exist?

#70 martyn chapman

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 21:09

hi, FWO7C,
There was no factory and this was the only one ever built,it was built in coventry 1952/1955.
this prototype started life hopeing to be part of leslie johnsons E.R.A Dunstable works and the F1 car that leslie brooke and L J were going to build,.
the SEL name could have been bought by L brooke in the hope of supplying the engine to other teams,or suppling it as a sports car eng to other manufactures, I have never known a address for the co,i do know the engine was built up at the Roots factory in a locked building, and when finished it was moved to leslie brookes home in the back garden in his workshop,where it went from there i do not know,there was a rumour that BoB gerrard had it at some time but i do not know if this is true,perhaps someone else knows?????.we might never know now as quite alot of time has passed since then,.thanks for your interest martyn.

#71 bradbury west

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 21:24

For more info on this engine, in his Autocourse book Grand prix cars 1945 to 1965 Doug Nye gives quite a comprehensive profile of the project, which adds to Martyn's enthralling story. Apparently the engine was intended to be multi-functional with the ability to take a much higher capacity for large sports cars or even road cars, hence, to some extent, the very large water passages which larger pistons/liners would have occupied more amply. It seems that 2500cc was likely to have been its smallest iteration. With such an oversquare configuration larger sizes would probably have needed a different crank throw as well, not such a big issue in the grand plan of things for an engine, I imagine.
Roger Lund

#72 martyn chapman

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 21:24

Hi ian, i don't know if the godiva pub still exists, and yes you are right it was a haunt of alot of cov motor trade workers, it is a shame when you look at the companys just involved in this engine ,i bet none of them exist to day as they did then,where did it all go,,sad so sad.thanks for your interest.martyn.

#73 martyn chapman

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 21:36

hi roger,i would like to find a copy of dougs book as i have only ever seen one comprehensive story on this engine done by a mr smith does any one have a copy of dougs book or do i have to search Ebay,martyn,

#74 bradbury west

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 21:40

Martyn, I have checked the Autosport piece in '55 to which Geoff refers and it is very light in content.
Roger Lund

#75 martyn chapman

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 21:48

haaaa autosport 55 yes i have that one got it of Ebay about 3 months ago ,it seems not much was written on the engine,thanks,martyn.

#76 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 21:51

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Hi dad please find picture attached as requested :clap: :wave: love Sha xx

#77 martyn chapman

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 22:19

Many thanks to geoff Harrison for sending me this lovely pic of brookey sat in R7b in coventry just after the war,i thought you all would like to see it and thanks to sha for sending it ,martyn.

#78 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 21:23

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Dad please find attached the pictures of the F TYPE ERA V8 (Birdcage)

Love Sha :clap:

#79 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 21:26

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Second picture of the F TYPE ERA V8 (Birdcage)

:clap: :wave: sha xx

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#80 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:14

What an utterly superb thread!
I note, however, some of the luminaries here were less than enthusiastic 6 years ago, pity.
http://forums.autosp...?threadid=45835
Martyn, I last saw the Brooke-Weston engine on the floor of a private garage in Farquhar Road, Edgbaston, Birmingham in 1964 or 65 whence I was taken by two friends (one Tommy Norton's stepson and the other escorting Leslie's daughter) with a view to possible purchase. The engine was very well known then among the Midlands racing set and was viewed either with some awe, or total derision! I can only recall it looked incredibly large for a 2.5litre engine and in any event wanted nothing to do with it.
Whereabouts in Kineton was the fabled workshop you mention, AAMOI?
Best regards.
C.

#81 bradbury west

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 14:48

[i]Originally posted by Geoff.Harrison ....Also found the Motor Sport 1986 article on the Kieft and Speed / Brooke -Weston engine.Geoff [/B]

April 1986 ; A substantial 4 page article by Mike Lawrence which also includes comprehensive information about the Climax Godiva engine.
Roger Lund

#82 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 15:58

I am sure I have seen the ERA F type refered to a still born 500cc car? Possibly in one of the early Stirling Moss biographies, when he was driving the G type?

#83 Proditto

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 21:08

Some 45 years ago I was a trainee at Rootes group. My flat mate met Leslie's daughter and they eventually got married. The result of this was that I took out Leslie's younger daughter. Naturally I visited Leslie's house. He was by this time separated or divorced and only his wife lived in the house with the daughters. At the back of the house were two garages. One had an (I think) A35 which he had done the Monte Carlo rally in. This garage I was allowed to use to build my racing Imp. The other was the 'engine garage'. It had big sliding doors and the floor still had yellow lines to out line the position of the engine stand. Evidently a big party had been held to show off the engine at Shells expense.
Some time later when I had finished my trainee ship I was about to leave when, through lack of finance the house was put up for sale. I came to work on my car and found Mrs B burning piles of drawings and notes. These had belong to Leslie and she was not taking them with her. Tragically I was too late to rescue any. They had evidentially filled numerous dustbins and been burnt in one of them.
I was told by someone at the time that it was the bevel gear drive that had been the major problem with the engine and that they were to be redesigned. I met LB at my friends wedding but he was in a rush and I could not get to talk to him.
Hope this is of some interest.

Sandy Cormack

PS In the front garden was a sort of a pond which was courtesy of a German bomb hole!

#84 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 19:53

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#85 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 19:56

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#86 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 20:01

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All your pictures added dad .... :wave: my golly you have been a busy bee xx

#87 Ayesha Chapman

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 20:05

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#88 martyn chapman

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 20:47

hi sandy sorry its taken so long to answer you on this thread,hope you are well,i remember talking to you some time ago,you mention the blueprint drawings ,well,ron dalton supplied me with a complete set of drawings and company names that where involved with the engine ,i think he told me he saved them from the said 45 gallon dustbin fire as he turned up when the burning was taking place he pulled them out of the fire and took them home with him and saved them,he gave these to me a few years ago and they are back with the engine over 50 years later ,i don't know if this is correct but thats what he told me,he was very evasive when i asked him about the engine so im not sure, i know the problem was with the bevel drive it was actualy the cam shaft that wipped on the end as a 4 ins overhang is to much with no bush or bearing on the end ,this i have redesigned and am putting into action shortly, i have been busy wih the car which will be the rolling test bed for the project when i have finished it,i am stuck at the moment as the rear uprights i have are no good as they are made for 13 ins wheels,and i need some that will take 15 or 16 with out board brake set up,i might have to get some made if i can't find any,.hope you enjoy the new pics posted by sha thanks sha,you can show me how to do it myself soon ,martyn.

#89 martyn chapman

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 21:00

hi derwint ,yes you are right,i was told about this i was also told that they put this out to throw people of the scent as this was all top secret and only very few people new about the V8 as like climax they didn't want egg on faces if it went wrong,as it did i heard that they even made a drawing of a 500 but had no intention of building it as sterling was driving the g type by the time they finaly got the engine to run,martyn,

#90 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 07:20

Wow! what an amazing story, especially the bit about the 'lost' secret cellar :cool:
This forum is great the way old threads keep coming back especially for 'newbies' like me who missed them the first time.
Thanks Sha for the great pictures :up:
One thing though, which is the elder, the chassis or the telly in the background?  ;)
Is it b+w or colour :D
I have to say that cos' the technicalities and history being discussed here are way above my head :confused:

#91 RCH

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:10

I'm going to have to read this thread through properly when I get the the time. However I well remember that garage in Mappleborough Green! We had relative living nearby and used to pass along that way sometimes.

I remember some time in the early sixties my father stopped there to show me a Minerva he had seen there previously, the Minerva had gone but we were fascinated to watch attempts to tow start an ERA with an RM series Riley in the field behind. Happy days!

#92 martyn chapman

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 20:36

hi paul.i will answer you with the elder of the chassis and the telly is the telly ,it is a colour one ,and it only ever gets turned on sunday of grandprix weekends, and i make a point of working on the car then,i am trying to use period parts where i can,the cds tube i built the chassis with is older than the telly as i bought it in coventry over twenty five years ago and never got around to using it,i am trying to build the car so that people can appreciate the sound of this high reving V8 that has only ever been heard by those that built it,i am not saying it is an original chassis its not, its a rolling test bed that could have been,the engine was built with ERA money from the sale of GP2 back to leslie johnson,i have heard its sounds awsome its either that or give it to a museum to just be gorked at what would you do ?i only ever intend to demonstrate it so that people can enjoy it .cheers martyn, :wave:

#93 martyn chapman

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 20:54

hi RCH, i remember the minerva,the day dad bought it he drove it home,it had'nt been running for twenty odd years,he put some petrol in it ,and they towed it and started it so he drove it home,when he pulled into the garage at mapplebourgh it was on fire as the birds had nested on top of the exhaust under the car it was only a down pipe as the main exhaust had fallen off,, and the brakes were none existingthe nest had caught fire which had melted the fuel line and set the whole carb and bonnet on fire,he ran straight for the extinguisher and put it out,
The ERA was R2A and dad was probably getting ready for a VSCC meeting. martyn.

#94 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 07:04

Thanks Martyn :up: without guys with your skill and dedication, projects like this would be as you say consigned to a museum somewhere, or on a scrapheap never to be seen or heard again :up:

#95 cdrewett

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 15:04

Martyn
just out of interest I was thumbing through Motor Sport 1954 March issue and came across an article by Bill Boddy on Cyril Keift's plans for that year, with a photograph of the V8 chassis under construction. I can mail you a photocopy if you like.
Chris

#96 cdrewett

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 09:16

hi paul.i will answer you with the elder of the chassis and the telly is the telly ,it is a colour one ,and it only ever gets turned on sunday of grandprix weekends, and i make a point of working on the car then,i am trying to use period parts where i can,the cds tube i built the chassis with is older than the telly as i bought it in coventry over twenty five years ago and never got around to using it,i am trying to build the car so that people can appreciate the sound of this high reving V8 that has only ever been heard by those that built it,i am not saying it is an original chassis its not, its a rolling test bed that could have been,the engine was built with ERA money from the sale of GP2 back to leslie johnson,i have heard its sounds awsome its either that or give it to a museum to just be gorked at what would you do ?i only ever intend to demonstrate it so that people can enjoy it .cheers martyn, :wave:

Martyn
I'm sure a lot of people are keen to have an update on this project, and hope you are making progress.
Chris

#97 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:53

Second that thought...

Martyn, let's have some pics and details, please.

#98 cooper997

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:46

It's only in the last couple of days I've taken the time to have a read through this thread on Martyn's experience with Kieft V8's and the SEL V8. What an enjoyable read and an incredible find.

I don't think I've read any reference to it throughout the thread, but in Autosport's annual 'High-performance cars 1954-55' edition there's a 2 page feature 'A Grand Prix Project - The Kieft'. With a nice big cutaway drawing and reasonable amount of text. If anybody wants to read it or post it on this thread then drop me a message with an email address.

Stephen




#99 macoran

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 12:49

Thanks for mailing the scans Stephen.
Here are the pages spliced together.
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Edited by macoran, 15 August 2009 - 12:50.


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#100 oldclassiccar

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 13:28

Researching an old photo I've put on my site, led me to re-read this thread. The photo seems to show a similar scene to one already featured a while back, albeit from a different angle. Anyway, thought you'd be interested to see it...

Speed Engines Ltd
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Rick