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Mosley part 9


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Poll: Mosley part 9 (267 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Yes. (58 votes [21.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.72%

  2. No. (209 votes [78.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.28%

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#1 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:15

Bernie said Max shouldn't mess with the money aspect and care about safety and sporting issues instead.. What is up with that?

Is Max Mosley going against the will of the teams and others with his cost-cutting measures? is he so powerful nobody can't stand up to him?

Compare and decide for yourself:

Wednesday, October 8th 2008 --> Mosley: Costs threaten F1's future

"It has become apparent, long before the present economic difficulties, that Formula One was unsustainable," Mosley told the BBC.



Friday, May 23rd 2008 --> Bernie Ecclestone's letter in full

There is no financial crisis in Formula One. On the contrary, Formula One is in robust health, it enjoys the support of most of the world's leading automotive manufacturers and is sponsored by many of the world's other most prestigious brands. Revenues continue to grow, television ratings are high and demand from countries to promote a new Grand Prix continues to exceed the number of places on the calendar.

The cost of operating a successful Formula One team has risen to an unsustainable level and this is being addressed. The Formula One teams have agreed upon some cost-cutting measures, making it more viable to participate at a competitive level and with a robust and stable regulatory framework, further efficiencies should be possible. We will continue to support such initiatives.



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#2 Mika Mika

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:20

Mosley 9,

There are more Mosley threads than Friday the 13th films!!!!

#3 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:23

Originally posted by Mika Mika
Mosley 9,

There are more Mosley threads than Friday the 13th films!!!!


That's because the zombie refuse to go for good, Max is tougher than Jason..;)

#4 primer

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:24

Oh God, another Mosley thread. I commend the people who have the energy to read and post in these threads.

As far as cost cutting goes, I do not know how anyone can take FIA and the teams seriously when they introduce KERS and then complain about costs. :rolleyes: If the team(s) were unhappy they should have broken off and formed their own series.

And Max too needs to be a little more...consistent and also realize the consequences of his actions.

#5 Hacklerf

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:26

Max has been on about cost cutting for years now, its nothing new, just that now everyone is in recession, people are actually listening

#6 Orin

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:29

I think he should retire to spend more time underwriting theatrical orgies.

(I would say to spend more time with the wife and kids, but despite going on and on about the pain they've suffered he's long since separated from her and the 'children' are middle-aged).

However, I wonder if the poll question should be "Is the FIA suitable as the governing body of motorsport?". Because at the moment it seems to have the president it deserves.

#7 Mika Mika

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:30

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Max has been on about cost cutting for years now, its nothing new, just that now everyone is in recession, people are actually listening


That is true....

And it's NEVER happened.

#8 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:32

Originally posted by Orin

However, I wonder if the poll question should be "Is the FIA suitable as the governing body of motorsport?". Because at the moment it seems to have the president it deserves.


That's true and I agree... I think you're right it would have been much better to ask that question.. : :blush:

#9 kar

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:35

I am going to go out on a limb here and say the poll result will be something like 40-45% supporting to 55-60% against.

Just like those polls before spankgate.

#10 jdanton

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:37

One good way to reduce costs would be to cut back to 3 S&M prostitutes instead of 5. That would be a big costs savings. :clap:

#11 Chiara

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:37

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#12 equality

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:38

I think its obvious Mosley has gone mad. Same drivetrain for everybody. Why not just quit F1 alltogether? That would save lots of money too.

#13 Valvetronic

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:41

History has shown that when someone starts campaining about a certain issue which he considers to be a problem lot of people think he's mad, fool or whatever. It was the same when Sir Jackie was campaining for better safety in F1, nobody was taking him seriously in the beginning and people were accsuing him for being afraid,fool etc.. We had to keep loosing drivers and eventually we had to loose the biggest driver ever in F1 to finally wake up and take serious and effective measures.
It's more or less the same with Mosley's warnings now. Mosley is campaining about cost cutting for some years now but noone was willing to agree on certain measures and these small measures about limited testing etc took ages to be agreed. F1 lost 6 teams since 2001, some of them closed, some others were sold to new owners. Now that things are becoming more difficult and the financial recession is taking its tall on the various manufacturers and companies, suddenly some voices about cost cutting have add themselves beside Mosley's. Bernie says there's no problem because that's what he has to say. He's responcible for keeping the business in good shape, by saying that there's a problem it would affect potential new investors, sponsors and other manufacturers.;) Mosley's foresight has been proved once again correct. Lets just hope that the teams and manufacturers have finally taken the message before it's too late.

#14 potmotr

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:43

A mega-expensive switch to 2.4 litre V8s rather than just rev limiting the existing V10s?

An ultra pricey trip into technical la la land with this stupid KERS experiment?

Yes Max, you're really interested in cutting costs.

Why won't the man just f*ck off.

#15 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:44

Originally posted by Valvetronic

...

Mosley is campaining about cost cutting for some years now but noone was willing to agree on certain measures and these small measures about limited testing etc took ages to be agreed. F1 lost 6 teams since 2001, some of them closed, some others were sold to new owners.

...


None of the cost-cutting measures Max has already put in place has worked. And lets not mention some of his 'safety' measures...

Sometimes you're simply just not the right guy for the job...

#16 Orin

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:45

Originally posted by jdanton
One good way to reduce costs would be to cut back to 3 S&M prostitutes instead of 5. That would be a big costs savings. :clap:


:lol:

The recession's finally bitten!

#17 Valvetronic

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:50

Originally posted by Slowinfastout


None of the cost-cutting measures Max has already put in place has worked. And lets not mention some of his 'safety' measures...

Sometimes you're simply just not the right guy for the job...


By the teams own admission (I've read relevant comments supporting that from BMW Sauber, Renault and Toyota), they have saved money from the frozen of the engine development and they have saved money from the limited testing BUT the problem is and this is the difficult part, that noone can prevent a team from using the money it'll save from lets say testing to another department. In the end no matter what measures the FIA may take it's down to the teams themselves. If they first and foremost cannot put their houses in order and understand simple economics (that the way things are going concerning costs F1 will be extinct in a few years time) then there's no salvation. FIA isn't eveybody's accountant, it's eventually up to the teams to be carefull and try to spend less.

#18 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:52

Originally posted by Valvetronic

FIA isn't eveybody's accountant, it's eventually up to the teams to be carefull and try to spend less.


Well, duh..

#19 Mika Mika

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:56

Originally posted by jdanton
One good way to reduce costs would be to cut back to 3 S&M prostitutes instead of 5. That would be a big costs savings. :clap:


40% less fun though!!!!!

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#20 Mika Mika

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:56

Originally posted by Orin


:lol:

The recession's finally bitten!


Biteing cut backs and S&M should not be used in the same sentence ;-)

#21 kar

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:56

Originally posted by potmotr
A mega-expensive switch to 2.4 litre V8s rather than just rev limiting the existing V10s?.


And which teams exactly were on board with the rev-limit option as opposed to unrestricted V8s?

#22 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:57

Originally posted by Mika Mika


40% less fun though!!!!!


Depends if the whore with the stealth camera ends up making the cut or not... fun is a relative concept ;)

#23 Maximus

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:58

Originally posted by Mika Mika
Mosley 9,

There are more Mosley threads than Friday the 13th films!!!!

:lol:
Expect Mosley 10 when the new Deputy President for Sport is elected.

Expect Mosley 11 through 15 when the (re)election of FIA President comes up.

#24 Mika Mika

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 13:59

Originally posted by potmotr
A mega-expensive switch to 2.4 litre V8s rather than just rev limiting the existing V10s?


V8's sound better so :up: to maxy baby on that one...

#25 Mika Mika

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:00

Originally posted by Maximus

:lol:
Expect Mosley 10 when the new Deputy President for Sport is elected.

Expect Mosley 11 through 15 when the (re)election of FIA President comes up.


election or erection hehehe...

Hey we all know max has staying power....

#26 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:01

Originally posted by Maximus

:lol:
Expect Mosley 10 when the new Deputy President for Sport is elected.

Expect Mosley 11 through 15 when the (re)election of FIA President comes up.


Yea.. we know Max is a proven liar.. and he receives tons of letter of supports ;)

Too bad the very supportive people can't be bothered to show that support publically... no corruption there of course...

#27 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:03

I do think that spending 30 Million a year on engines and drive trains is way over the top. The manufactures can afford it but they would be trilled to cut this in half, however the same cannot be said about the privateers who are only surviving because of Billionaires.
Mosley has a very valid point, Super Agury is now gone, in two years it will be Williams/STR/Force India disappearing from the grid. A formula 1 series with only 12/14 cars on the grid would certainly be less appealing. Cost cutting is also the only formula that would attract new racing teams from different parts of the world to try and enter formula 1.

#28 Orin

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:06

Originally posted by Mika Mika


Biteing cut backs and S&M should not be used in the same sentence ;-)


I suppose if you can only afford whores with loose dentures... :D

#29 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:06

errr.. F1 became what it has become on Mosley's watch... hey, I'm sure it's gonna get better because he's in a great mood and stuff.

Max is also extremely elegant so thats a plus as well.. :rolleyes:

#30 primer

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:12

F1 doesn't need cost cutting because it is auto-regulating in this matter. The teams can only spend as much as they can get, if the supply becomes tight they will cut back on spending.

Besides the cost cutting measure while good in theory do not seem to work out in real world. And how does KERS help in cutting costs? That's a money pit for teams that Max imposed on them. :

#31 anthony says

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:13

The answer to is he suitable is obviously not. The mere fact that all the WMSC votes on such important issues were said to be unanimous is in itself proof that he has established a position in the FIA that is a dictatorship. And a system of dictatorship is inherently bad, isn't it?

I don't know why anybody takes the ecomomising issue at face value. It's pretty obvious that the teams themselves are the ones best placed to decide how much to spend and whether they can afford it. And therefore it's obviously absurd for Mosley to say they need him to save them from themselves. To me, the 'economising' issue is just code for a one-make F1, which is fairly clearly what Mosley is working towards, one step at a time.

#32 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:16

Originally posted by primer


Besides the cost cutting measure while good in theory do not seem to work out in real world. And how does KERS help in cutting costs? That's a money pit for teams that Max imposed on them. :


KERS is innovation.

#33 Mika Mika

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:17

Max and Lewis really Bring out the polar's in people on this BB....

Their powers combined would be.....quite disgusting ;)

#34 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:18

Originally posted by anthony says
The answer to is he suitable is obviously not. The mere fact that all the WMSC votes on such important issues were said to be unanimous is in itself proof that he has established a position in the FIA that is a dictatorship. And a system of dictatorship is inherently bad, isn't it?

I don't know why anybody takes the ecomomising issue at face value. It's pretty obvious that the teams themselves are the ones best placed to decide how much to spend and whether they can afford it. And therefore it's obviously absurd for Mosley to say they need him to save them from themselves. To me, the 'economising' issue is just code for a one-make F1, which is fairly clearly what Mosley is working towards, one step at a time.


And you think that at this day and age the teams are trilled to spend more and more as opposed to cut cost as much as possible..
What you are saying is that that all of the teams are in favor or unlimited spending and that is simply not true..

#35 Slowinfastout

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:23

Originally posted by Mika Mika
Max and Lewis really Bring out the polar's in people on this BB....

Their powers combined would be.....quite disgusting ;)


Combining their abilities? The mental images are disturbing... Lewis horsebackriding (driving) Max with a whip? eeww!

Add LDM's pit light system, remove thermometer and GOooo!

#36 Scotracer

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 14:27

Originally posted by Mika Mika


V8's sound better so :up: to maxy baby on that one...


:eek:

No chance!

#37 Ocelot

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 15:31

I honestly love Max. He is soooooooo funny :lol: :lol:

You've gota love the man who has singlehandedly cast the seediest light on F1 that the sport has ever been under, a man whose staff are open liars and a man who is an open hypocrite.

How's about this: http://www.itv.com/N...-915837532.html

"He now wants newspapers to have to notify someone before publishing private information about them."

So I wonder how the fetishist would reconcile that viewpoint with his actions yesterday when he axed the Canadian GP from the calendar without telling the promoter?

Until F1 gets rid of him and Bernie (and yes, it will happen) the sport is destined to stay second rate.

#38 britishtrident

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 16:14

Originally posted by BMW_F1


KERS is innovation.


Yeah whatever

Inovation is not allowed in F1 it was banned the same day the FIA stopped playing by the rules, that is day the Lotus 88 was banned before it ever raced -- car was agreed 100% legal on the morining of practice day but the technical regs were changed by lunch time. --

:rotfl:

#39 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 16:30

Originally posted by britishtrident


Yeah whatever

Inovation is not allowed in F1 it was banned the same day the FIA stopped playing by the rules, that is day the Lotus 88 was banned before it ever raced -- car was agreed 100% legal on the morining of practice day but the technical regs were changed by lunch time. --

:rotfl:


If KERS is not automobile engineering innovation then what is?

"Motorsports-inspired hybrid systems will be in passenger cars in the near future
The system going into the BMW X6 is rumoured to be a kinetic system, however. Whether the team is developing both methods in testing, or whether the information regarding the production car system is simply mistaken is not clear. However, using the purely mechanical KERS-type system in its road cars would be a good idea for BMW.

Going to the kinetic system for extra power is a necessary step if BMW is going to deliver both the performance and the efficiency it wants. Current conventional hybrid systems simply can’t deliver both - they either meet power requirements and only minimally improve efficiency, or vice versa. The calculus is especially true on the large X6. Whether BMW has any plans to include the high-tech system on other models remains unknown.

Ferrari president Luca Cordero di Montezemolo recently confirmed that the Italian supercar manufacturer was also working on a similar system for its production cars, however its first systems aren’t expected to arrive until 2015. BMW’s version, meanwhile, could appear in the next couple of years or so."


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#40 Lazarus II

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 17:24

Originally posted by BMW_F1


If KERS is not automobile engineering innovation then what is?

"Motorsports-inspired hybrid systems will be in passenger cars in the near future
The system going into the BMW X6 is rumoured to be a kinetic system, however. Whether the team is developing both methods in testing, or whether the information regarding the production car system is simply mistaken is not clear. However, using the purely mechanical KERS-type system in its road cars would be a good idea for BMW.

Going to the kinetic system for extra power is a necessary step if BMW is going to deliver both the performance and the efficiency it wants. Current conventional hybrid systems simply can’t deliver both - they either meet power requirements and only minimally improve efficiency, or vice versa. The calculus is especially true on the large X6. Whether BMW has any plans to include the high-tech system on other models remains unknown.

Ferrari president Luca Cordero di Montezemolo recently confirmed that the Italian supercar manufacturer was also working on a similar system for its production cars, however its first systems aren’t expected to arrive until 2015. BMW’s version, meanwhile, could appear in the next couple of years or so."

Good on you :up: wait to buy the 2015 ferrari KERS Mondial Coupe for $250k+. or you can buy the quicker and greener Tesla Coupe RIGHT NOW!

Exactly how "green" are those throw away batteries going to be again? 1,000 years half-life :confused:

#41 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 17:33

Originally posted by Lazarus II

Good on you :up: wait to buy the 2015 ferrari KERS Mondial Coupe for $250k+. or you can buy the quicker and greener Tesla Coupe RIGHT NOW!

Exactly how "green" are those throw away batteries going to be again? 1,000 years half-life :confused:


I don't buy Ferrari cars, I buy BMW. I prefer top automobile engineering, comfort and ultimate performance over fancy sports cars. But that's besides the point. I was making reference of knetic energy and how it is an innovative technology. If I am just looking to get the most fuel efficient car and ignore everything else I would want from a car, then yes, your Telsa coupe might be just what I need.

#42 equality

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 17:45

Originally posted by Valvetronic


By the teams own admission (I've read relevant comments supporting that from BMW Sauber, Renault and Toyota), they have saved money from the frozen of the engine development and they have saved money from the limited testing BUT the problem is and this is the difficult part, that noone can prevent a team from using the money it'll save from lets say testing to another department. In the end no matter what measures the FIA may take it's down to the teams themselves. If they first and foremost cannot put their houses in order and understand simple economics (that the way things are going concerning costs F1 will be extinct in a few years time) then there's no salvation. FIA isn't eveybody's accountant, it's eventually up to the teams to be carefull and try to spend less.


I think he has cut costs considerably and i see myself as a big mosley defender but he goes too far with these ideas. F1 should be about differences and big spending teams. The way mosley puts it the spectators couldnt care less they just wana see racing. If that was the case id follow the porsche cup, gp2 or motogp but hey, i dont. The day a mercedes engine will be fitted to a ferrari car is the last day il ever turn an eye on F1. I also dont think BMW will stay if they have to use a toyota engine.

Besides, he can cut costs in other areas. How about cutting ron dennis 12 million pound sterling annual retainer? Or kimis 50 million dollars a year? The only outrageous spending is in the wingspan of the private planes of these drivers/team owners. And as a last resort he can alter chassis regulations so guys like dave richards can make a cheap chassis and enter the race. His crying doesnt convince me at all. In fact, f1 never has been better. 10 years ago you only had 3 or 4 big teams. now we have 7. No wonder williams finds it hard but theyl come back.

#43 britishtrident

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 19:19

Originally posted by BMW_F1


If KERS is not automobile engineering innovation then what is?

"Motorsports-inspired hybrid systems will be in passenger cars in the near future
The system going into the BMW X6 is rumoured to be a kinetic system, however. Whether the team is developing both methods in testing, or whether the information regarding the production car system is simply mistaken is not clear. However, using the purely mechanical KERS-type system in its road cars would be a good idea for BMW.

Going to the kinetic system for extra power is a necessary step if BMW is going to deliver both the performance and the efficiency it wants. Current conventional hybrid systems simply can’t deliver both - they either meet power requirements and only minimally improve efficiency, or vice versa. The calculus is especially true on the large X6. Whether BMW has any plans to include the high-tech system on other models remains unknown.

Ferrari president Luca Cordero di Montezemolo recently confirmed that the Italian supercar manufacturer was also working on a similar system for its production cars, however its first systems aren’t expected to arrive until 2015. BMW’s version, meanwhile, could appear in the next couple of years or so."



The words green and BMW don't mix the BMW X5 & X6 are totally pointless vehicles designed only for one reason conspicuous consumption.

#44 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 19:36

Originally posted by britishtrident



The words green and BMW don't mix the BMW X5 & X6 are totally pointless vehicles designed only for one reason conspicuous consumption.


I don't think you know what you read..

#45 Maximus

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 19:55

Originally posted by BMW_F1
I don't think you know what you read..

That's the least of BT's problems I think ;)

#46 anthony says

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 21:09

Originally posted by BMW_F1

And you think that at this day and age the teams are trilled to spend more and more as opposed to cut cost as much as possible..
What you are saying is that that all of the teams are in favor or unlimited spending and that is simply not true..

The teams spend what they can spend and what they want to spend. Obviously if Force India has a budget of £100m, they would like everybody else to be restricted to £100m too. But that doesn't mean it would be good for F1 if Ferrari had the same budget as Force India.

In any case, you don't save any money from equalising performance unless you do it by everyone using the same engine, same gearbox etc. Do you think BMW want to save money by using somebody else's engine?

#47 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 21:44

Originally posted by anthony says

The teams spend what they can spend and what they want to spend. Obviously if Force India has a budget of £100m, they would like everybody else to be restricted to £100m too. But that doesn't mean it would be good for F1 if Ferrari had the same budget as Force India.


why not? the results should not be driven by how much money you have but by how good you are..

#48 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 21:49

here is BMW's position on F1 Budget Cap Idea..

Mario:

"Cost reduction certainly is desirable, we support that," the German told reporters at the launch of the new BMW Sauber F1.08 car.

"The idea of a budget cap, I think at a first glance it looks quite attractive. We should at least spend some time on evaluating it, how it would work, what would be the cap, what would be included and how to police it."



#49 anthony says

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 21:55

Originally posted by BMW_F1


why not? the results should not be driven by how much money you have but by how good you are..

The results already are driven by how good you are. And in the real world how much money you have is generally a consequence of how good you are.

#50 potmotr

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 23:33

Mosley is a manipulated fuckhole. Perhaps he'll leave us soon.