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Personal photos of F1 2008 - TNF's nostalgia-free thread


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#1 Simon Arron

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 07:38

To sate the appetites of those who want to see this stuff, and to appease those who would rather it didn't clutter up pictorial threads that are otherwise ripe with March 742s, Chevron B19s, Tyrrell 007s and suchlike, here are a few fragments from recent grands prix...

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Spot the difference: Kimi Räikkönen in Shanghai on Friday morning...

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...and again on Friday afternoon, with the older, shorter Ferrari engine cover. Reduced rear-end efficiency gave him added front-end bite. He stuck with it for the balance of the weekend and - with a car that suited his style for the first time in eons - gave Felipe Massa a good trouncing (except when he backed off and let him through towards the end of the race, obviously).

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Paddock landmarks from Singapore...

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...and the Fuji Speedway.

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Nick Heidfeld celebrates renewal of his BMW Sauber contract with an extravagant flourish as he negotiates the excitingly named Turn 16, Shanghai.

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Nelson Piquet fails to attract a sell-out crowd (although multi-coloured seats make the Shanghai grandstands look quite busy, even when they border on empty).

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I think this is Heikki Kovalainen entering the Shanghai pit lane, but the sun's reflections make it hard to pick out the coloured ID stickers atop the on-board camera.

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Mark Webber - smiling in the face of frequent adversity. In Singapore he was running just behind winner Fernando Alonso - and had a lot more fuel on board, which would probably have enabled him to overtake the Spaniard during the second round of pit stops - when his gearbox simultaneously selected fifth and seventh, an electrical misfortune that is thought to have been triggered by a passing tram.

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#2 rbm

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 08:15

Fly India?

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the pits

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Red

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all from a very wet Silverstone - too which we were kindly invited by the BRDC, as they borrowed the Cooper.

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 09:33

Originally posted by Simon Arron
To sate the appetites of those who want to see this stuff, and to appease those who would rather it didn't clutter up pictorial threads that are otherwise ripe with March 742s, Chevron B19s, Tyrrell 007s and suchlike...

Thanks again, Simon
From a purely personal viewpoint, I'd rather not see threads cluttered up with modern cars such as March 742s, Chevron B19s and Tyrrell 007s either, but accept that you young chaps regard those as "nostalgic" these days, so am happy to live with it :cool:

#4 B Squared

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 10:43

Thank you Simon. Very nice photos, and appreciated here.

Brian

#5 paulsenna1

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 15:44

I'm fast approaching 50 and often called a grumpy old man...

So of course I like to see March 742s, Chevron B19s, Tyrrell 007s and even Crossle 25Fs and Stanguellinis.

And while they may not be images of beauty, I do still appreciate certain qualities of the likes of a Renault R28 or a McLaren MP4-23 etc.

Please continue posting ALL the fabulous images.

#6 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 16:24

Keep 'em coming Simon. Whilst not being a fan of the actually racing I love seeing the workings of "racing" and the scale that F1 is these days, maybe I'm just nosey!!

#7 Ian Smith - Diz

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 17:57

Originally posted by Simon Arron
To sate the appetites of those who want to see this stuff, and to appease those who would rather it didn't clutter up pictorial threads that are otherwise ripe with March 742s, Chevron B19s, Tyrrell 007s and suchlike, here are a few fragments from recent grands prix...

Posted Image
Spot the difference: Kimi Räikkönen in Shanghai on Friday morning...

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...and again on Friday afternoon, with the older, shorter Ferrari engine cover. Reduced rear-end efficiency gave him added front-end bite. He stuck with it for the balance of the weekend and - with a car that suited his style for the first time in eons - gave Felipe Massa a good trouncing (except when he backed off and let him through towards the end of the race, obviously).

Is pre race scrutineering different in F1 to scrutineering in motor racing then Simon?

Silly question obviously, but if the car was scruted with the very ugly rear section and then they changed it to the less ugly rear section, surely it is technically a different car.

Originally posted by paulsenna1
I'm fast approaching 50 and often called a grumpy old man...

So of course I like to see March 742s, Chevron B19s, Tyrrell 007s and even Crossle 25Fs and Stanguellinis.

And while they may not be images of beauty, I do still appreciate certain qualities of the likes of a Renault R28 or a McLaren MP4-23 etc.

Please continue posting ALL the fabulous images.

IMHO a Crossle 25F is an image of beauty, as is the Crossle 30F so ably track tested by Mr Arron in 1986.

No doubt SA will find an image or two and post them - in the not too distant future - from some exotic part of the world - probably

#8 Simon Arron

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 18:43

On my Formula Ford race debut in 1987, I lined up on the grid in a Crosslé 45F that had a nosecone but returned to the paddock with one that hadn't. Is that vaguely similar to Räikkönen's situation in Shanghai?

Meanwhile, somewhere beyond an electronic turnstile...

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Proof that there were some punters in the main grandstand on Sunday in China.

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I quite like this. The expression suggests Massa is looking at an Italian TV temptress with a microphone, but he's actually watching a passing helicopter that drowned out the media's attempted conversation.

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Ridiculously young Monty Python fan travelling passably quickly in an Adrian Newey-designed Minardi.

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A slightly differently spelt Sébastien in the other Toro Rosso.

#9 Simon Arron

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 11:26

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So, Giancarlo, what's it like driving the Jordan, MF1, Spyker, Force India or whatever it is called today?

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No further questions.

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A solution to a non-existent problem...

#10 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 12:13

Perhaps its time to change the name of this forum to "Pastforum" as nostalgic which has been discussed before might as well be the "past" just as it could be as I write this , but I bet the old suckers here wont argue...............or if they'ed rather nock me !

Absolutely beautifull pictures , but ..............

#11 Stephen W

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 12:21

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Perhaps its time to change the name of this forum to "Pastforum" as nostalgic which has been discussed before might as well be the "past" just as it could be as I write this , but I bet the old suckers here wont argue...............or if they'ed rather nock me !

Absolutely beautifull pictures , but ..............


Bjorn, you have to realise that this thread is history in the making!

If only I had taken more photos of transporters, drivers poncing round the paddock, of cars being worked on, of unique cars that were too slow to interest me then and recorded more chassis numbers then I would have been in a better position to contribute to a lot of the threads on this wonderful forum.

:wave:

#12 Phil Rainford

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 14:13

Due to the fact that Mr Arron has purchased a new camera and is one of the few TNF Contributors with access to the track and paddock at a Grand Prix, I feel he should be allowed to give us all the unique opportunity to view history in the making.

Totally in agreement that the thread should have its on title, however I am looking forward to some images of how the main protagonists handle the pressure in Brazil next month.

Kind regards

Phil

#13 MCS

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 15:00

Originally posted by Simon Arron

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These cars are SO UGLY!!! They really are terrible, with bits sticking out seemingly everywhere... Yuk. :

#14 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 15:28

Originally posted by Simon Arron

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I think this is Heikki Kovalainen entering the Shanghai pit lane, but the sun's reflections make it hard to pick out the coloured ID stickers atop the on-board camera.




Tis Lewis, but I will not boast of my anorak credentials by explaining why. Just know that I know ;)

#15 f1steveuk

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 20:29

Originally posted by Simon Arron


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Spot the difference: Kimi Räikkönen in Shanghai on Friday morning...

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Not 100% certain of all the differences, but is it one is ugly and the other is butt ugly, so the difference is 'butt'??

" but the sun's reflections make it hard to pick out the coloured ID stickers atop the on-board camera".


My gift to F1, suggested after M Schumacher decided to do his last four lap run in the spare, and leave that outside the FIA bay. Quick chat with Race Control over comm's and both cars were checked. I suggested the colour coding to aid the GFXs operators identing the cars more easily and it was put in the sporting code. Not as good as ground effect or the DFV, but I still smile when I see it!

#16 Phil Rainford

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 20:45

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon Arron
[B]To sate the appetites of those who want to see this stuff, and to appease those who would rather it didn't clutter up pictorial threads that are otherwise ripe with March 742s, Chevron B19s, Tyrrell 007s and suchlike, here are a few fragments from recent grands prix...

Posted Image
Spot the difference: Kimi Räikkönen in Shanghai on Friday morning...

Posted Image
...and again on Friday afternoon, with the older, shorter Ferrari engine cover. Reduced rear-end efficiency gave him added front-end bite. He stuck with it for the balance of the weekend and - with a car that suited his style for the first time in eons - gave Felipe Massa a good trouncing (except when he backed off and let him through towards the end of the race, obviously).

Probably an obvious answer ( But not to me ) ....as most spectators actually at a Grand Prix observe the cars "side-on" why have the race numbers been removed from the side of the cars? ( Or do you have to scan the bar code to get the number):confused:

Kind regards

Phil

#17 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 23:23

Originally posted by Simon Arron
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So, Giancarlo, what's it like driving the Jordan, MF1, Spyker, Force India or whatever it is called today?

How on earth does he see over the hump on the nose? I don't think I've seen the Force India in profile before, but the bodywork looks to be above Fisi's eyeline!

#18 Sebastian Tombs

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 23:41

Tis Lewis, but I will not boast of my anorak credentials by explaining why. Just know that I know


No anorak, just looked in your mirror. :)

ST

#19 Twin Window

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 01:03

Originally posted by MCS


These cars are SO UGLY!


Aren't they just. :rolleyes:

But, in fairness, those senior to me were moaning themselves senseless track-side about the state of the cars at the - for example - 1973 British GP...

It's all relative. A bit like my Aunty Dorothy ;)

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#20 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 05:30

Originally posted by f1steveuk


Not 100% certain of all the differences, but is it one is ugly and the other is butt ugly, so the difference is 'butt'??

" but the sun's reflections make it hard to pick out the coloured ID stickers atop the on-board camera".


My gift to F1, suggested after M Schumacher decided to do his last four lap run in the spare, and leave that outside the FIA bay. Quick chat with Race Control over comm's and both cars were checked. I suggested the colour coding to aid the GFXs operators identing the cars more easily and it was put in the sporting code. Not as good as ground effect or the DFV, but I still smile when I see it!


If you were really clever you would have allowed the teams to pick their own colours : Let the BMW Saubers have a blue rollhoop and a white one. I think it kinda works at Ferrari because Massa's helmet almost matches his rollhoop shade, and the same for Kimi. On some of the other cars it looks silly.

Though I 've never been a fan of the t-cam installations since they came out (1998?).

#21 fines

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:02

Originally posted by Vitesse2
How on earth does he see over the hump on the nose?

He doesn't. The "trick" is to look right and left of it, it's only about ten inches wide!;)

But I agree, it looks an uncomfortable ride, with the upward swing in the underside just where his bum would be...

#22 David Lawson

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 11:04

It wasn't so long ago that we were ticked off by more established TNF'rs if a post 1980 F1 photograph was posted on the forum and now we have reports from events almost as they take place. TNF is obviously evolving.

While I don't enjoy Mr Arron's enviable access to Messrs M and E's inner sanctum at the circuits I still enjoy a trip to Silverstone to watch F1 cars in action from the plebs banking. If you choose to ignore all the bullshit that unfortunately makes up such a large part of the show these days you still get that same rush watching these cars as you did 40 years ago. By the way, when did commentators first start calling a grand prix a show, I get annoyed by Brundle and Allen referring to the start of the race as the "top of the show".

Anyway, you can't beat walking around the track trying to get photos through the debris fencing and advertising hoardings and watching the current crop of cars and drivers on much the same tarmac as our heroes from the past. Believe it or not I find Silverstone quite atmospheric as I remember all my personal motor racing memories over the years.

My photograph of Rosberg turning into Copse Corner at 170mph or whatever immense speed it is was taken during Friday's practice at this years British Grand Prix. Although it isn't the best picture in the world it does remind me of the noise, speed and spectacle of these projectiles and why I still go back year after year.

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David

#23 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 13:39

Although pretty ugly, these modern F1 machines are quite breathtaking through fast corners such as Copse. Taken flat these days in qualifying, the sudden change of direction there is astounding. As is the noise. They are far louder than anything we used to watch - even the Matra V12. Such a pity the TV pictures do not give an impression of the speed or the immense sound. I guess the closest most folk here have been to a modern F1 car is at Goodwood's FoS. But doing dragster style burnouts and short bursts up the hill gives little impression of the capabilities of these cars. Although I see them every year at the Silverstone GP and at a few tests, those first few flying laps through a quick corner still astonishes. Now if only they would slide more!

#24 f1steveuk

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 14:39

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


If you were really clever you would have allowed the teams to pick their own colours : Let the BMW Saubers have a blue rollhoop and a white one. I think it kinda works at Ferrari because Massa's helmet almost matches his rollhoop shade, and the same for Kimi. On some of the other cars it looks silly.

Though I 've never been a fan of the t-cam installations since they came out (1998?).


Originally I said "yellow for team leader, green team two and white for team spare", by the time it got through the sporting code, I'd left and it had got changed!

The "T" cameras were for a reason (spare lens I think) as the camera originally was on the helicopter (lense to transmitter, to heli', to broadcast village), then they went for the node system but the cameras remained. There were originally up to six fixed positions, now there are custom ones all the time, but all teams have to have either a working camera, or and installation that weighs the same. Still none of this makes tha cars look better.

The old "vertical" type were mounted on pliths and presented to several people.

As Stuart says, it's reletive, I recall stepping back in horror in '73 at the state of the first F1 Ensign (Von Opel) I thought it was hideous! but then Tyrrell 006/2 has always been my favourite car, in the same season the Lotus 72 was running. Go figure!

#25 f1steveuk

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 14:40

Originally posted by Vitesse2

How on earth does he see over the hump on the nose? I don't think I've seen the Force India in profile before, but the bodywork looks to be above Fisi's eyeline!


Probably took lessons from Arturo Merzario.........................

#26 Stephen W

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 15:09

Originally posted by f1steveuk


Probably took lessons from Arturo Merzario.........................


Didn't he take a course in astral navigation? :lol:

#27 alansart

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 18:37

Originally posted by David Lawson
It wasn't so long ago that we were ticked off by more established TNF'rs if a post 1980 F1 photograph was posted on the forum and now we have reports from events almost as they take place. TNF is obviously evolving.

While I don't enjoy Mr Arron's enviable access to Messrs M and E's inner sanctum at the circuits I still enjoy a trip to Silverstone to watch F1 cars in action from the plebs banking. If you choose to ignore all the bullshit that unfortunately makes up such a large part of the show these days you still get that same rush watching these cars as you did 40 years ago. By the way, when did commentators first start calling a grand prix a show, I get annoyed by Brundle and Allen referring to the start of the race as the "top of the show".

Anyway, you can't beat walking around the track trying to get photos through the debris fencing and advertising hoardings and watching the current crop of cars and drivers on much the same tarmac as our heroes from the past. Believe it or not I find Silverstone quite atmospheric as I remember all my personal motor racing memories over the years.

David


I can't disagree with most of that and although I did feel that Simon's posts from various Grand Prix Paddocks might upset one or two people around here, I've actually quite enjoyed them. He does add the sarcasm that modern F1 deserves :)

I stopped going to GP's about 20 years ago as I thought it was a rip off even then. You pay more and more money and get less and less.

I have 2 daughters, who are are now at Uni and are both F1 fans. I looked at the GP and there was no way I was going to spend the £600 it was going to cost for the family to go, so booked into the testing the week before. Having not seen and heard modern F1 cars "live" for a long time it was quite a pleasure to experience the noise and the sheer power and grip of modern F1.

The sad thing is, it's very difficult to take photos if you have a camera with a small lens. You can just about get something if you are high enough to get over the fencing....
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Try it a bit lower down and you can be stuffed....
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And I wish F1 teams would stop doing this - covering the car, not cutting the chicane :)
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#28 Paul Newby

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 02:37

I agree with most posters hear that the look of 2008 spec F1 cars with their myriad winglets, fences, chimneys and what not are an aesthetic disaster. Glad they're being tidied up on the upcoming 2009 cars.

I only wish / hope they do the same with those ghastly disc wheel covers that look like they're a hubcap off a 1980 Morris Ital.... :rolleyes:

Simon, can you please give us a laymans explanation as to how these wheel discs came to be and whether there are any plans for them to be outlawed?

Sorry, but I couldn't be bothered looking up Racing Comments.

#29 Simon Arron

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 08:41

Paul

The politically correct explanation is that the rim shields, dustbin lids, Morris Ital cast-offs (call them what you will) are an aid to brake cooling. And as more efficient brakes make a positive safety contribution, nobody has raised any major objections.

The real explanation, predictably, is that they are one of the latest examples of wind tunnel science: the shields help generate aboiut 0.0000001 per cent better aero efficiency, or whatever. I don't have the quotes to hand, but I'm fairly sure Pascal Vasselon of Toyota admitted his design team actually had to increase the size of their brake ducts as a result of covering the wheels...

This is one area that causes Nick Fry of Honda great concern. Aero research pertaining to the front brake ducts costs an absolute fortune, because the moulds are very intricate and they make scores of the things. Every team does it, but if they stopped it would save a lot of money and make zip-all difference to the racing. I feel he has a point.

And to all those who have paid eloquent tribute to the astonishing physical presence of a modern F1 car (David Lawson, Andrew Kitson, Alan Raine), I couldn't agree more. TV monitors are singularly incapable of projecting a true impression of the kind of entry speeds carried into certain corners, Copse being a prime example. The racing might not always inspire, but even as a single entity the cars can be mesmerising to watch.

Cheers,
SA

#30 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:20

I agree that the cars don't look great with all their aero add-ons but hopefully that'll change for next year (I think when they reduced in width was the turning point on beauty) and as for the cornering efficiency I think you only see it when there is a head-on shot and the car suddenly disappears off to the right or left at break-neck speed!!

Also, I must admit to not liking the hub-cap brake coolers but they have been around for a very long time in Sportscars; maybe if we have all these standard items maybe all the teams should use one wheel supplier who in turn won't allow such items attached to their product. If Ferrarai are going to bail on F1 maybe they could be wheel supplier?

Simon - please keep the pics coming though, no matter how ugly!!

#31 B Squared

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 11:17

In the States with IndyCar these wheel covers have been here & gone for quite some time. In 1988, when the three Penske cars claimed the front row at Indy, they all had the smooth surface wheels for aerodynamic purposes. I don't know the scientific figures for the actual performance enhancement. I do know that they were eventually banned, not sure of the year off hand.

When I started working races for CART in 1982, the Super Vee cars were running at the Michigan International Speedway with them. However, they were not cast wheels, but "clip ons." The cars were shedding them at speed left & right. They became high speed decapitating frisbees! They were removed, and from then on had to be cast in the smooth form. This was in either 1982 or '83. Fortunately, no one was injured, but it could have been quite nasty.

Brian

#32 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 11:24

The original wheelcovers in Indycar and endurance racing where for better drag numbers. Almost all open wheelers run disc covers on the inside of the wheels. The current generation on F1 cars are very carefully designed to get heat out of the brake assembly and also to create the correct airflow to the rest of the car.

A rather extreme example
http://www.autosport...8XB7R50LD8NLS-2

#33 alansart

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:54

Originally posted by Simon Arron

And to all those who have paid eloquent tribute to the astonishing physical presence of a modern F1 car (David Lawson, Andrew Kitson, Alan Raine), I couldn't agree more. TV monitors are singularly incapable of projecting a true impression of the kind of entry speeds carried into certain corners, Copse being a prime example. The racing might not always inspire, but even as a single entity the cars can be mesmerising to watch.


I feel fortunate to have seen Ronnie Peterson's JPS Lotus slide it's way through the pre-chicaned Woodcote. A joy to watch and a real artist at work. The speed then was impressive, the drivers skill obvious and the consequences of getting it wrong, possibly fatal. Modern F1 is different. Technology and grip levels are so high, even without traction control the cars go around corners as if on rails. Yes the speed is impressive, but I'd like to see a bit more movement in the corners, so we can see just how good some of the current prima donas are :)

#34 f1steveuk

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 13:19

Originally posted by Simon Arron
TV monitors are singularly incapable of projecting a true impression of the kind of entry speeds carried into certain corners, Copse being a prime example. The racing might not always inspire, but even as a single entity the cars can be mesmerising to watch.


And there in lies the problem. In the years I worked in the TV coverage of F1 in particular, the decsision was made (to do with the length of the glass optic loop I believe), that all F1 circuits should be an approximate, similar lap length. This also lead to FOM deciding that this would mean a standard amount of cameras to each race (not including special cam's and ENG), now to cover certain parts of a circuit, we'd up up using lenses way to long to give a stable image, so the answer was to cover more, with less. This meant mounting the cameras higher and higher. Trouble is, as soon as you do that, you loose all impression of speed!

I was forever pushing to re-create the old camera angles at Hockenhiem, especially into the stadium complex, where you really could see the speed of the cars as the popped over the little crest into the last corner, but we could only afford to put one there, so up it went. The same can be said for the OBC cameras, most of the time it just looks like a kid playing a Playstation!

To put one low camera, fixed, to show the exit speed, and balancing act leaving Stowe, took me two years to get, as was broadcast twice during the race.......................

In summary, totally agree, butt ugly cars, but stand beside the track and watch them, Jeez!

#35 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 13:34

First time I saw a modern F1 car was under braking for turn 1 at Monza in a test. I knew they'd be braking late, but as my head swiveled to follow the car, it stopped well short of where my head was tracking. It took the 6th or 7th car to time it correctly.

And yes in person it is so much better. I then watched from a very high vantage point in Ascari and seeing someone like Alonso go through there with some gusto, you don't see on TV all the very tiny but incredibly fast steering corrections he makes. The whoomp as they hit an apex kerb at speed is pretty fun too.

#36 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 13:44

Such a pity the millions of TV viewers who are fans of F1 never have the chance to see these cars and witness the stunning performance, due to high ticket costs. TV really does not do them any justice. It's the same with top fuel dragsters. They may seem boring and 'easy peasy' to drive on the TV, just hit the throttle and steer in a straightline, but they are anything but. Again the performance is absolutely staggering and must be witnessed live to 'feel' it and appreciate it.

#37 alansart

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 14:36

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Again the performance is absolutely staggering and must be witnessed live to 'feel' it and appreciate it.


Spot on.

Both my daughters were only a week old when they were first taken to Oulton Park and both slept happily next to my revving Formula Ford, but they can't really remember my racing days as I stopped when they were still quite young.

When we all went to the Silverstone Test Day before the GP they both couldn't quite believe how fast these cars actually go and also how fast they stop. They don't enjoy the GP's on TV as much anymore as it's just not the same as seeing it live and unfortunately my youngest's 21st birthday present request for next year is a trip to the GP.

#38 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 15:24

People ask me why I pay so much to watch F1. I tell them there's nothing like an F1 car at the limit, what they can do is almost unbelieveable, the acceleration, braking and cornering defy logic, Bridge corner at Silverstone is one place to watch, on the bank just before the Bridge, they come out of Abbey like they've been fired from a catapult, down the dip and sweep up to the right away from you, with the exhaust note reverberating through your breastbone :cool: After F1 everything else seems slow.

#39 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 15:32

Although impossible, i'd love to see a modern spec F1 car on the proper old Silverstone. To think of the speed they acheive through Bridge today, after that slow Abbey chicane. How fast would they be without Silverstone's 'new' fiddly bits? Possibly the only braking point would be Becketts. It would be almost like an oval. I recall the amazement around 1973ish that someone might break into the 1:15's and do a 140mph lap, people saying it couldn't be done. Come on Alan, what do you think this 'fantasy' lap time would be? :lol:

Youtube - F1 cars through Copse. Although the speed can be seen, it still does not give the overall sensations that it does live.
http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=C270dMyf5eg

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#40 alansart

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 15:56

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Although impossible, i'd love to see a modern spec F1 car on the proper old Silverstone. To think of the speed they acheive through Bridge today, after that slow Abbey chicane. How fast would they be without Silverstone's 'new' fiddly bits? Possibly the only braking point would be Becketts. It would be almost like an oval. I recall the amazement around 1973ish that someone might break into the 1:15's and do a 140mph lap, people saying it couldn't be done. Come on Alan, what do you think this 'fantasy' lap time would be? :lol:


Peterson's pole in 1973 with the old flat out Woodcote was 1'16.300.

Rosberg's 150mph qualifying lap with the chicane was in 1'05.591. and that was 23 years ago!

So I would guess a time on the 73 circuit in a modern F1 would be about 50 odd seconds.

Bloody hell, go off at Copse and you'd end up in Northampton :)

#41 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 15:59

Rosberg did a 160mph lap didn't he? Yep, I reckon around 50+secs too. Same with the old Brands, they'd be around the minute mark there I think.

#42 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 16:08

What was pole speed at Monza that year? The track was slightly different, but you could use the difference to Monza 2007 (08 qual was wet) to guesstimate what Silverstone 2008 would have been.

#43 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 16:44

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Rosberg did a 160mph lap didn't he?


Yep, I was there, it was 82ish? in the Williams, Saturday qualifying if my memory serves me right.

#44 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 16:45

It was 1985 Paul. Yes, Saturday qualifying.

#45 alansart

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 16:53

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
It was 1985 Paul. Yes, Saturday qualifying.


It was 160mph and 85.

Rosberg appeared under the Daily Express bridge at amazing speed and just nailed the chicane, with the black cloud of burnt petrol fumes trying to keep up...Legend says he also had a slow puncture at the time.

Fabulous :)

#46 Phil Rainford

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 17:31

Originally posted by alansart


It was 160mph and 85.

Rosberg appeared under the Daily Express bridge at amazing speed and just nailed the chicane, with the black cloud of burnt petrol fumes trying to keep up...Legend says he also had a slow puncture at the time.

Fabulous :)


This shot is from the correct practice session and I think is the start of the famous lap. Next time around I just stood frozen to the spot totally forgetting about the camera in my hand....

Posted Image

...probably an optical illusion but one of the rears does look as though it is losing pressure

Kind regards

Phil

#47 f1steveuk

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 17:36

I was always lead to believe the car was found with reduced pressure in one tyre, and that Rosberg's first reaction on getting out of the car was to light up.............

#48 john t

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 17:40

Didn't it start raining during the lap or am i mistaken?

#49 john aston

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 17:45

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Such a pity the millions of TV viewers who are fans of F1 never have the chance to see these cars and witness the stunning performance, due to high ticket costs. TV really does not do them any justice. It's the same with top fuel dragsters. They may seem boring and 'easy peasy' to drive on the TV, just hit the throttle and steer in a straightline, but they are anything but. Again the performance is absolutely staggering and must be witnessed live to 'feel' it and appreciate it.


So right...there is a lot wrong with GP racing in 2008 but the noise ,speed and staggering cornering are just gobsmacking live.I love watching people - usually at Silverstone tyre test as I rarely do the GP any more- who have clearly watched the sport on TV for years,thinking they know what to expect but being utterly stunned at their first exposure to an F1 car at speed.The entry to Bridge is a fine place for this as the cars just bullet out from under the bridge itself.And ,as Andrew says, a full house dragster live is just total sensory overload .

#50 f1steveuk

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 17:52

I recall taking a young "work experience" chap out to the first chicane at Hockenhiem during a track audio experiment. After explaining just what the memorial stone to Jim Clark was all about (!!) I set about fiddling with a stereo cut mic' while the lad just uttered swear words for the first fifteen minutes of the session, that when his jaw wasn't on the ground! When I asked why he hadn't been logging the cars as asked, he physically couldn't speak, such was his surprise to the noise and just how late they were braking.

Mind you, he got me back. He missed a car and asked "did you see who that was?". I was looking at the ground, but said, "no, but it was Ralf". he looked surprised and asked how I could know that. "well" says I, "Monti is still in the pits, and it has to be a Williams, they're the only ones using those brakes, and they smell different to all the others (honest they did, different material)", he just uttered the word "anorak!"