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Dates for Solitude races 1903..1906


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#1 Marco94

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 08:25

Hi there,

in my thread about Solitude articles in UK magazines, I mentioned that I have been researching in two Stuttgart news papers. This works well from 1922 onwards, because I have the dates of those races.

For the very first races on the Solitude in 1903, 1904, 1905 and 1906 I do not have these dates. Can anyone help me on that?

Marco.

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#2 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 09:14

There is no date given in the little ADAC booklet titled Solitude 1903-1965 Die Automobilrennen. I found this history by Count Seherr-Thoss not a great piece of work, but it provides some very good basic information. If he could not find the dates of the early mountain races before 1922, he missed the opportunity to say so.

The mountain races took place 18-6-1922; 17-6-1923; 18-5-1924; the circuit races took place on 17-5-1925; 12-9-1926; 18-9-1927. Therefore I would first look in May, then June and last, September. If there is no lead to be found in the papers, then the events may have been held in July or August. But first I would ask the librarians. You will be surprised what they sometimes know.


#3 Marco94

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 10:10

Thanks Hans,

I am not sure about the librarians. Maybe they do know, but I have not had the impression yet that they do. I have recently bought the two booklets "Solitude 1903-1965, Die Automobielrennen" and "Solitude 1903-1965, Die Motorradrennen." For those interested, you can get them at the Glemseck Hotel from Frau Sonnet, the owner.

Marco.

#4 Marcel Schot

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 11:27

Marco,

I'll have a look at Gustav Braunbeck's Automobilismus Lexikon, which I have at home. It's a 1994 reprint of a 1910 book, covering the early history of autoracing, especially in Germany.

#5 Marcel Schot

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 15:00

Just checked, not a word on Solitude :(

#6 Barry Lake

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 15:09

Marco
Do you have an address for the Glemseck Hotel?

Marcel
There's another one I would like to have. I don't read German very well but I would bet I would get some good info from it that isn't published elsewhere.

#7 Marcel Schot

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 17:47

Barry : I bumped into it in a second hand bookstore in The Hague some 2 months ago. It was quite expensive (around $60)Since then I've learned amazon.de has it for a more massive DM 198 ($90), so I wasn't off too bad after all

#8 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 01:47

Marcel,
Could you please check the following in Gustav Braunbeck's Automobilismus Lexikon: does it have results of the
Chanteloup Bergrennen from 1898 to 1910?
Semmering results from 1899 to 1910?
Coppa della Consuma results from 1902 to 1910?
Mont Ventoux Bergrennen from 1902-1910?
Susa-Moncenisio results from 1902 to 1910?
Kesselberg-Rennen results from 1905 to 1906?

What's in there mainly. What benefits are in there for someone like me who is doing research of the early races.

Does the book have the first names for example of
Antony 1898-1901?
G. Leys 1897-1901?
M. Loysel 1898?





#9 Barry Lake

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 05:50

Marcel
I THINK I just ordered the book from Amazon.de. Not being very good at German, I am not sure!
Thanks for the tip, anyway.
Please let me know of any other non-English language books you see that you think I should have in my library.

#10 Marcel Schot

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 10:31

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Chanteloup Bergrennen from 1898 to 1910?
Semmering results from 1899 to 1910?
Coppa della Consuma results from 1902 to 1910?
Mont Ventoux Bergrennen from 1902-1910?
Susa-Moncenisio results from 1902 to 1910?
Kesselberg-Rennen results from 1905 to 1906?

What's in there mainly. What benefits are in there for someone like me who is doing research of the early races.

Does the book have the first names for example of
Antony 1898-1901?
G. Leys 1897-1901?
M. Loysel 1898?


Chanteloup : not that I could fine
Semmering : 1899-1909, but for most years only the winners of the various classes
Coppa della Consuma : not found
Mont Ventoux : not found
Susa-Moncenisio : not found
Kesselberg : only top 3 of 1905 an 1907

General contents:
  • History per period "start to 1896" and every single year after that until 1909. This goes from founding of automobile clubs, to races, to autoshows to such happenings as the first release of some newspapers and magazines. This part includes results, pictures and trackmaps of (some of) the races which aren't features in specific chapters. this part takes up 218 pages.
  • The Gordon-Bennett races, 1900-1905. Results, short stories and some trackmaps. 1900 : top 2, 1901 : winner, 1902 : winner, 1903 : top 5 (with trackmap), 1904 : top 12 (with trackmap & full startlist), 1905 : top 12 (with trackmap). This part is 12 pages
  • Grand Prix des ACF, 1906-1908. 1906 : top 11 + trackmap, 1907 : top 13 + trackmap, 1908 : top 23 + startlist. 8 pages
  • Kaiserpreisrennen 1907. Very detailed, 6 pages
  • Herkomerkonkurrenzen 1905-1907. Very detailed again, including the rules. Results for 1905 only overall and top 3 for Kesselberg & Fostenrieder Park. 1906 overall, Fostenrieder Park, Semmering (top 3). 1907 overall, Fostenreider Park, Kesselberg (top 3). 18 pages.
  • Price Heinrich 1908-1909, very detailed. 13 pages
  • Semmeringrennen, 1899-1909, 10 pages
  • a chapter on the emperor's cars and military cars, 8 pages
  • Die Freiwilligen-Automobil-Corps, 12 pages
  • The evolution of the car in pictures, 24 pages
  • records, survey of races in Germany, 10 pages
  • data about sales, import & export of cars in Germany, 6 pages
  • autoclubs, about 120 pages, including logo's of German clubs as well as Austrian, Hungarian and Swiss ones. Full memberlist for German clubs (including addresses!)
  • lexicon of about 160 pages, including short bio's on many people and companies
  • 160 pages of addresses of I think everything and everyone that had to do with autosport
  • 100 pages of adverting
  • 60 pages of rules about cars

Antony, Leys, Loysel : already found out they weren't there when you first mentioned them in the research thread.

So all in all, the book is by no means 100% complete, but it gives a nice insight of the happenings in the early 20th century.

#11 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 11:53

Marcel,
Thanks a great bunch. :D
I will add the book to my want list and better wait till Dennis David sends me a check for "The Unfair Advantage", in case he is still interested. :confused:
That money would then probably buy me Braunbeck's Lexikon. :)
Luckily I have now also more shelf space since my sweet wife had permitted purchase of a third book case...
...in the hope of sharing some gained space. :lol:

#12 Dennis David

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 15:20

Hans can you send me your address again. I am still interested and thanks to my company I have a record quarterly profit sharing check to spend!;)



#13 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 07 October 2000 - 17:12

Dennis,
Its in your mailbox. :)

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 October 2000 - 10:19

Hans, you are so lucky having a wife that allows you to have the books and fosters your getting more... even if she has an ulterior motive... kiss her for me. Or for you, really.

#15 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 09 October 2000 - 04:32

Order executed! :)

#16 Dennis David

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Posted 09 October 2000 - 18:08

Hans,

The proverbial check is in the mail.