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#1 The July Plot

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 18:41

Do F1 drivers ever get random drug tests? It is standard prctice in just about every sport in the world, but it something I have never heard mentioned in motor racing and F1 in particular.
If they do who does them, is it the teams in an un-official capacity or is it the FIA? :confused:

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#2 Youichi

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 18:45

The FIA do them, they were brought in sometime in the late 80's/early 90's, I recall Nannini reportedly being worried about Caffine being on the list, as the Minardi expresso's were particularly strong :)

Thomas Enge lost the F3000 title after failing one of the tests.

#3 potmotr

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 18:55

Rubens Barrichello also failed a drug test in the mid-90s but was cleared because the substance he had taken was a cold and flu remedy.

#4 jdanton

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 19:20

Potmotr--do you have a link on that? I believe you, I'm just curious.

Yeah, F1 is under WADA--I think the main substances looked for are rec drugs and beta blockers.Never mind, found link

#5 alfa1

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 20:57

I'm surprised that pain killers arent under the banned list. I've read of many drivers over the years who race while being being drugged up in this way.

Example 1. Hamilton at European GP this year.
and so I had to have injections in my neck and take plenty of painkillers

Example 2. Webber racing with cracked ribs in early '05.
doctor and he gave Mark a couple of injections before the race,

#6 postajegenye

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 21:34

Originally posted by alfa1
[B]I'm surprised that pain killers arent under the banned list. I've read of many drivers over the years who race while being being drugged up in this way.

Imagine a MotoGP race if pain killers were banned! Those guys often ride with broken bones.

#7 potmotr

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 21:46

Originally posted by jdanton
Potmotr--do you have a link on that? I believe you, I'm just curious.


I'd have to do some serious searching around. I remember reading about it in Autosport in the mid-90s from memory. Just had a quick search but couldn't turn up a result. I remember it being from the first season drug testing was introduced.

#8 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 22:23

Lots of cold cures contain ephedrine and/or derivatives thereof: that's what Rubens was dope-tested on. Max Papis was also in the mix:

http://www.teamdan.c...5/novemb95.html

As reported by David Tremayne in the Independent, Oct 1 1995:

THERE was little action of note on the track yesterday, which perhaps explains why the revelation of Friday's routine dope tests on Rubens Barrichello and Max Papis caused such a palaver at the track side in the afternoon. There were suggestions that each showed traces of banned substances. It seems that there is a ready explanation, however. Drivers are racing this weekend in temperatures at least 20 degrees lower than they were last weekend in Estoril, and several now have colds as a result. Barrichello is alleged to have told FIA medics, prior to his test, that he had used the nasal treatment Afrin, which contains Ephedrine. Papis admitted openly that he was prescribed Triaminic Flu, which contains Pheniphedrine, as a cold treatment by his doctor.



#9 Steve Williams

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 23:11

I think it was in F1 racing, maybe another mag I was reading recently, while referring to James Hunt, it was pretty strongly insinuated that one of the current F1 pilots would have a few worries if he was tested. Out loud, wonder who (but don't wanna get the libel thing going obviously).

#10 scheivlak

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 23:55

Originally posted by alfa1
I'm surprised that pain killers arent under the banned list. I've read of many drivers over the years who race while being being drugged up in this way.

Example 1. Hamilton at European GP this year.
and so I had to have injections in my neck and take plenty of painkillers

Example 2. Webber racing with cracked ribs in early '05.
doctor and he gave Mark a couple of injections before the race,


Anyway, you're allowed to take a drug if you've let it be known in time that it's a doctor's prescription (at least, that's the rule in any other sport).

#11 potmotr

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 23:56

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Lots of cold cures contain ephedrine and/or derivatives thereof: that's what Rubens was dope-tested on. Max Papis was also in the mix:

http://www.teamdan.c...5/novemb95.html

As reported by David Tremayne in the Independent, Oct 1 1995:


Ah, thanks a lot Vitesse! :clap:

Jdanton, hope that is what you're looking for. I knew it was the mid-90s....

#12 Risil

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 00:46

Nori Haga's surely the only high-profile racer to be caught out by the drug tests (AFAIK)? He was done for ephedrine too. Although just in terms of blood testing, there's always the distasteful, not to say disgusting, treatment of Tim Richmond by NASCAR...

I've always thought drug testing is a little strange for motor racing, surely the advantages of doping youself up are quite limited in any real sport?

#13 Lazarus II

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 01:04

Originally posted by Risil
... surely the advantages of doping youself up are quite limited in any real sport?

I don't think so at all. If you can recover quicker, have more stamina, and strength. Steriods aren't just for building bulk any longer.

#14 Risil

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 01:44

Originally posted by Lazarus II

I don't think so at all. If you can recover quicker, have more stamina, and strength. Steriods aren't just for building bulk any longer.


Excuse me for sounding aggressive, which isn't my intention, but what benefit would a driver gain from being significantly fitter and stronger than the present standard?

#15 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 01:49

Originally posted by Risil
Nori Haga's surely the only high-profile racer to be caught out by the drug tests (AFAIK)? He was done for ephedrine too. Although just in terms of blood testing, there's always the distasteful, not to say disgusting, treatment of Tim Richmond by NASCAR...

I've always thought drug testing is a little strange for motor racing, surely the advantages of doping youself up are quite limited in any real sport?


One word: amphetamine. It's called speed for a reason.

#16 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 02:33

Originally posted by Risil
Although just in terms of blood testing, there's always the distasteful, not to say disgusting, treatment of Tim Richmond by NASCAR...


You can say that in hindsight, at the time it was pretty much in line with all other sports...see Magic Johnson, for an example of being forced out of the NBA at a much later date. My cousin died of AIDS at about the same time Richmond did, believe me, no one had a clue what the disease was and treatment, although at UCLA for my cousin, a forerunner in AIDS medicine, was completely inadequate and generally a shot in the dark. Part of the reason Tim virtually vanished overnight was that he was desperately ill.
As a note, this is coming from a huge fan of Richmonds, and while to this day there is still not much out of NASCAR on Richmond, I can't hold them all that responsible for their actions at the time.
Hindsight is 20/20. HIV/AIDS medicine is completely 180 from what it was back in those bad, bad days.

Sorry to go off topic.... :o

#17 Lazarus II

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 02:39

Originally posted by Risil


Excuse me for sounding aggressive, which isn't my intention, but what benefit would a driver gain from being significantly fitter and stronger than the present standard?

Having the ability to recover more quickly, having greater stamina, and more strength (not talking about bulk now) could be a great advantage to any athlete. Think more along the lines of cycling not bodybuilding.

#18 ViMaMo

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 03:19

Originally posted by potmotr
Rubens Barrichello also failed a drug test in the mid-90s but was cleared because the substance he had taken was a cold and flu remedy.


Maybe thats why he tries to act funny when he is on the podium. :drunk:

#19 skid solo

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 04:24

Originally posted by The July Plot
Do F1 drivers ever get random drug tests? It is standard prctice in just about every sport in the world, but it something I have never heard mentioned in motor racing and F1 in particular.
If they do who does them, is it the teams in an un-official capacity or is it the FIA? :confused:


Ya Man :smoking:

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#20 Craven Morehead

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 04:28

The Enge penalty still pisses me off (almost as much as my anger management class). What a crock.. :mad:

#21 alfa1

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:15

Originally posted by Risil
Excuse me for sounding aggressive, which isn't my intention, but what benefit would a driver gain from being significantly fitter and stronger than the present standard?


Not just about fitter and stronger.
In the case of pain killers, a non-drugged athlete might be tempted to give up halfway through the event due to pain, but a drugged athlete will continue on. Thus, drugged athlete has the advantage.
Secondly, pain is natures way of saying you should rest the injury. By ignoring it with pain killers, you have the risk of making it worse. Thus my concern about drivers racing under the influence of painkillers.

#22 Tony Mandara

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:30

Originally posted by Craven Morehead
The Enge penalty still pisses me off (almost as much as my anger management class). What a crock.. :mad:


That's nothing. A Dutch darts (yes darts) player was also stripped of his title because he tested positive for cannabis!!!! DARTS!!!!! How could it possibly help???!! :smoking:

Sorry, not exactly racing related, but the point has been made here about incresases in strength and stamina *, which WOULD be an advantage in racing. Just ask Jarno Truili. :cry:

Tony.

*Although not in the case of cannabis, obviously.

#23 tahadar

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 12:29

any drug that could improve reaction speed (if there are any) would probably be a big advantage in motorsports.

#24 jdanton

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 12:54

There was a 52 year old Olympic shooter from the US who was recently sanctioned for failing a drug test for a diuretic (Which I'm assuming was medically necessary--he just didn't file the right paperwork to say he was on it). The only drug which would offer any benefit to a shooter is a beta blocker.

In my opinion that has been a failing of WADA--they should break down each sports anti-dope list to be exactly what it needs to be. Don't get me wrong 90% of the people who are doping know what they are doing, and are doing something blatantly illegal. But there are a solid 10% who test positive for reasons like mentioned above, or with Barrichello.

And to the person who said speed would be performance enhancing to drivers, I disagree completely. Your heart rate would be driven up, and you would become more twitchy, causing you to go slower. You want to be relaxed and smooth--controlled chaos.

#25 kismet

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 12:55

Cannabis may be 'just' a recreational non-performance-enhancing drug, but then again, so is ethyl alcohol. Some substances aren't banned because they improve the athlete's performance but because they can distort his/her perception of reality - arguably not a good thing when you're going wheel-to-wheel with someone at 200 mph.

#26 jdanton

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 12:58

Right, cannabis and alcohol should be on the banned list for racing drivers, but not for let's say table tennis players.

There have been a large amount of downhill mountain bikers and snowboarders that have tested positive for weed, probably due to the lifestyle of the sport.

#27 bob sacramento

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 13:14

The reason for drugs testing in sport is to prevent the situations whereby the only way to be competetive is to take substances that have serious health implications.
For some reason some social engineering has crept in, probably because lots of ignorant people group together things like steriods with things like canabis because they both fall under the label of drugs.

#28 Imperial

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 14:34

Originally posted by alfa1
I'm surprised that pain killers arent under the banned list


Why?

They are a suppressant, not an enhancer. Certain drugs are banned in sport because they give a performance gain.

On the whole there is little point to doing substance testing in motorsport because the research shows that there is nothing that would be of benefit to a race driver.

Tomas Enge lost his F3000 title for testing positive on cannabis. Enge was unlucky/dumb enough to have gone to a party where people were smoking it and it was still in his system on race weekend when he was tested, but as was correctly pointed out by Eddie Irvine cannabis would give the exact opposite of a performance gain and thus it was a bit strange losing the title to something that would in fact dull your reactions etc and decrease your performance.

Even the usual suspects such as Creatine and Epo have been dismissed as offering no benefits to a racing driver. There have been plenty of serious magazine articles on this over the years.

That covers at least the real reason for drug testing (performance enhancement). As for recreational drugs...

There have been rumours for years that at least one driver racing during the mid 1990's and early 2000's was a regular cocaine user. Clearly never substantiated as the rumours remain exactly that to this day.

#29 Rinehart

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 15:00

Originally posted by The July Plot
Do F1 drivers ever get random drug tests? It is standard prctice in just about every sport in the world, but it something I have never heard mentioned in motor racing and F1 in particular.
If they do who does them, is it the teams in an un-official capacity or is it the FIA? :confused:


Or booze. Anyone else see that ITV interview years ago where Brundle (then DC's manager) burst into the McLaren motorhome 1/2 hr before the race to find DC supping a glass of red wine?!

#30 postajegenye

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 15:12

I read an interview with Alonso a couple of years ago, no idea where, he was asked about this and he said that there were random drug tests, usually 4-5 drivers are selected and taken to tests, mostly urine tests but sometimes even blood tests

#31 simpson

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 16:40

Originally posted by jdanton
There was a 52 year old Olympic shooter from the US who was recently sanctioned for failing a drug test for a diuretic (Which I'm assuming was medically necessary--he just didn't file the right paperwork to say he was on it). The only drug which would offer any benefit to a shooter is a beta blocker.

Diuretics are a masking agent so that other drugs can't be detected.

Amphetamines are called speed mostly because of the perception of the user, but I think that it's been shown that athletes' reactions are often slower on speed. Steroids would probably make the athlete more aggressive as well as its other benefits.

I'd think that the biggest thing with motor sport and drug use, is to keep the fellow competitors safe from stoned drivers.

#32 Imperial

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 16:48

Originally posted by Rinehart


Or booze. Anyone else see that ITV interview years ago where Brundle (then DC's manager) burst into the McLaren motorhome 1/2 hr before the race to find DC supping a glass of red wine?!


???

Don't recall that at all. Is that up on the internet anyway?

I really can't imagine someone with DC's professionalism doing such a thing. Jos Verstappen's health-guy used to go nuts that he used to down cola on race weekends, I'd find it hard to believe (especially in the Mclaren environment) that a glass of wine would even be allowed to get anywhere near DC, nevermind him willingly drinking it.

Are you sure that wasn't a set-up he was in on?

#33 bob sacramento

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 17:16

I'd think that the biggest thing with motor sport and drug use, is to keep the fellow competitors safe from stoned drivers.



Theres as much chance as that happening as the drivers spontaneously combusting.

#34 Ruud de la Rosa

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:16

Sorry to bring this old thing back from the grave. Now that the Tour de France is starting again and a Dutch competitor is already punished for use of EPO 2years ago it got me thinking of the famous Dr Fuentes. According to rumours there we're Formula1 drivers amongst his clientèle as well. As far as I know this rumour was never investigated?

#35 kNt

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:30

I think any sport, particularly the ones with Spanish competitors, has had this rumors. I heard them for tennis, football etc. But only in cycling where almost everybody seems to use doping the circumstantial evidence (nicknames 'translated' etc.) the fuentes thing lead to something I think.

#36 postajegenye

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:36

I saw that there's an article about drug tests in this months' F1 Racing. I haven't got the magazine, is there something interested in the article?

#37 Josta

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:43

There is an article in this months F1 racing about dope testing. It is going to get considerably more intense from now on. The drivers have to be available for an hour every day to piss in a pot. Apparently, most drivers choose 6 in the morning because it is the only time they can guarantee they can be available, (ie. woken up). If they are unavailable for a few times it is judged as a failure.

Having taken most forms of rec drugs in my misspent youth, I can see how speed could help endurance racing, (I would be very surprised if there isn't at least a few Le Mans drivers whizzing away), but I very much doubt any F1 driver would. They wouldn't make it past the first few corners without crashing into someone, then getting out and beating them up.

#38 Ruud de la Rosa

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:49

There is an article in this months F1 racing about dope testing. It is going to get considerably more intense from now on. The drivers have to be available for an hour every day to piss in a pot. Apparently, most drivers choose 6 in the morning because it is the only time they can guarantee they can be available, (ie. woken up). If they are unavailable for a few times it is judged as a failure.

Having taken most forms of rec drugs in my misspent youth, I can see how speed could help endurance racing, (I would be very surprised if there isn't at least a few Le Mans drivers whizzing away), but I very much doubt any F1 driver would. They wouldn't make it past the first few corners without crashing into someone, then getting out and beating them up.


are they allowed to take a shower before testing?;)

#39 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 13:42

Timely bump, in that Jeremy Mayfield won a temporary injunction to allow him to race this weekend at Daytona. He'll be getting tested daily if not more often!

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#40 jdanton

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 14:29

There is an article in this months F1 racing about dope testing. It is going to get considerably more intense from now on. The drivers have to be available for an hour every day to piss in a pot. Apparently, most drivers choose 6 in the morning because it is the only time they can guarantee they can be available, (ie. woken up). If they are unavailable for a few times it is judged as a failure.


This is just the new WADA code, not the FIA.






#41 BRG

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 17:38

How many more might there be in our sport?

#42 Cavani

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 17:55

maybe they are examined at the begining of the season