47 replies to this topic

[jadb1]

[f1steveuk]

Glad they chose to change the nose (very slightly) and the airbox top! Of course that later change caused some problems of it's own.




(Poor scan, sorry don't know the origin, remove if need be!)

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
Glad they chose to change the nose (very slightly) and the airbox top! Of course that later change caused some problems of it's own.




(Poor scan, sorry don't know the origin, remove if need be!)

steve - re the nose job, do you mean the lateral splitter panels added under and forwards of the radiator duct intakes?

rgds

peter

[cpbell]

Am I alone in thinking that the front of the cockpit is eerily similar to Brabhams of around a decade later during the Parmalat era? Also, what exactly happened to Reutemann's airbox?

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by cpbell
Am I alone in thinking that the front of the cockpit is eerily similar to Brabhams of around a decade later during the Parmalat era? Also, what exactly happened to Reutemann's airbox?

no you're not- and this was quite deliberate! am i right in saying that the livery was done by Peter Stevens (ex Lotus, McLaren, et al?).

the top of the original airbox had been cut and a taller section, with enlarged intake, grafted on, i think after the car arrived in argentina. you can see in the picture that steve posted where the cut was, as it ungrafted itself off again in the latter stages of the race and eventually fell off. there was talk at the time that this had led to the engine running rich, and that this was why the car ran out of fuel, having lost the lead a couple of laps from home when a plug lead fell off and it went onto 7 cylinders. later, GM was quoted as saying that he believed one churn of fuel hadnt been put in before the start..

peter

[f1steveuk]

As regards the nose, I was under the impression that the later ones were more "dished", the floors, in front of the intakes were cut back, and it developed some ajustable tabs on the trailing edge. I'm going from fading grey matter, so I may be thinking 44b!!

I recall "Lole's" airbox, gainfully hanging on with the black tape, I didn't recall, until I dug that picture out, that Roberts fell of completely. Was it Brazil where his car developed it's ROBERTS, side panel paint job?

There were/are, loads of ex Brabham boys at FOM, and the stories they tell of Bernie and colour schemes are legend!

[cpbell]

Originally posted by PeterElleray


no you're not- and this was quite deliberate! am i right in saying that the livery was done by Peter Stevens (ex Lotus, McLaren, et al?).

the top of the original airbox had been cut and a taller section, with enlarged intake, grafted on, i think after the car arrived in argentina. you can see in the picture that steve posted where the cut was, as it ungrafted itself off again in the latter stages of the race and eventually fell off. there was talk at the time that this had led to the engine running rich, and that this was why the car ran out of fuel, having lost the lead a couple of laps from home when a plug lead fell off and it went onto 7 cylinders. later, GM was quoted as saying that he believed one churn of fuel hadnt been put in before the start..

peter

Strangely, in that photo, the top of the airbox looks lower than in the first set of original images posted at the start of the thread. Or is that after the section started falling off in the airstream? When I mentioned the link to later Brabhams, I meant the shape of screen and cockpit surround, not livery, though that is similar.

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
As regards the nose, I was under the impression that the later ones were more "dished", the floors, in front of the intakes were cut back, and it developed some ajustable tabs on the trailing edge. I'm going from fading grey matter, so I may be thinking 44b!!

I recall "Lole's" airbox, gainfully hanging on with the black tape, I didn't recall, until I dug that picture out, that Roberts fell of completely. Was it Brazil where his car developed it's ROBERTS, side panel paint job?

There were/are, loads of ex Brabham boys at FOM, and the stories they tell of Bernie and colour schemes are legend!

steve - i just checked autocourse - reutemann's did stay on, "perched atop the car at a rakish angle" according to Pete Lyons report, and as your picture shows Robarts fell owf...

i dont remember the Robarts colour scheme at all - what was that all about then? all i remember in 74 were the Texaco stickers in SA and the Hitachi sponsorship in Belgium.

the dished nose was 44b, the lower lateral splitters were on the car by race day in argentina, the trim tabs were on the 44 during 1974,(and Hexagon appear to have developed there on on JW's car), but i cant find a record of the lateral diveplanes until 1975.

and can we have some colour scheme stories please...

peter

[f1steveuk]

First off Robarts, not Roberts (never trust a spell checker, I once went to fade up a "Olivier Panis" graphic, for the host broadcaster, so just the whole world would see it!!) and the spell checker changed it to "Olive Penis". Thankfully I spotted it on the preview screen.

I think it was Brazil, but Robarts was on a race by race deal or some such, and BCE was, er, dis-enchanted with his driver and the lack of funds. Robarts, having succeeded in becoming an F1 driver was dissapointed that his friends and family could not see his name on the car, as it was behind his helmet, below the roll hoop. Bernie, getting annoyed, said "I'll put your name on the car, you finnish higher than ** position, if not, your out" or something to that effect. The car duely appeared, with the word ROBARTS covering the entire side of the car. I think Richard was gone by the next race..................................

The BT52 started the season with a mainly black, and white colour scheme, and everyone in the team loved it. The guy who painted them was in the process of nagging BCE for a coffee machine. Bernie wasn't as keen on the colour scheme, and didn't want a coffee machine. "you can have one, but if I find one cup lying around......" Two days later, in walks BCE, and finds a cup. Less than two minutes later, coffee machine is off the wall, and outside in a skip, with Bernie leaving instructions that all the cars would be re-painted with a mainly white, and black colour scheme, before the next race. It was done!!

[cpbell]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
First off Robarts, not Roberts (never trust a spell checker, I once went to fade up a "Olivier Panis" graphic, for the host broadcaster, so just the whole world would see it!!) and the spell checker changed it to "Olive Penis". Thankfully I spotted it on the preview screen.

Reminds me of an early edition of Top Gear magazine which had a column of car names as mangled by early spellcheckers. The Lamborghini Diablo became "Lambskin Diabolic" and the Buick LeSabre ( ) became "Brick Lesbian"!

[Tim Murray]

I thought the BT52 looked absolutely stunning in the original colours, with the black top surfaces and white flanks, and not nearly as attractive in the revised colour scheme.

Excellent story, Steve - got any more, please?

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by cpbell


Strangely, in that photo, the top of the airbox looks lower than in the first set of original images posted at the start of the thread. Or is that after the section started falling off in the airstream? When I mentioned the link to later Brabhams, I meant the shape of screen and cockpit surround, not livery, though that is similar.

that is after it fell off - that is the lower section, where the upper should be is open...

my comment about being deliberate was intended to refer to the screen and cockpit - i think most 'designers' would regard that as a bit of 'styling' rather than engineering - nothing wrong with that in this context - hence my comments about the livery. i think they were designed to compliment one another. spectactulary successful aswell, imho!

now, as to the general relevance and postition of the 'stylist' within the race car design fraternity aside from 'paint and stickers (ok, and the screen shape!) ' - please don't start me off !....

peter

[LOLE]

[LOLE]

[LOLE]

[cpbell]

Originally posted by PeterElleray


that is after it fell off - that is the lower section, where the upper should be is open...

my comment about being deliberate was intended to refer to the screen and cockpit - i think most 'designers' would regard that as a bit of 'styling' rather than engineering - nothing wrong with that in this context - hence my comments about the livery. i think they were designed to compliment one another. spectactulary successful aswell, imho!

now, as to the general relevance and postition of the 'stylist' within the race car design fraternity aside from 'paint and stickers (ok, and the screen shape!) ' - please don't start me off !....

peter

Oh I see, my apologies. I was surprised about the screen as I would have thought that a decades' worth of aerodynamic advances would have changed the design more. Strangely, I have seen plenty of photos and a fair amount of footage of those mid-70s Brabhams, but the similarity had never struck me until now.

[LOLE]

Before the race...(not a professional repair).

[LOLE]

[cpbell]

Originally posted by LOLE

Great images - thanks LOLE! I never cease to be amazed by the cavalier attitudes of the day that allowed flag marshals to stand, unproted, at the apex of corners, as in your first image of this batch.

[PeterElleray]

Lole - (and i wish you were) - great stuff - i think we can handle as many BT44 images as you can throw at us.

thanks

peter

[COUGAR508]

Originally posted by PeterElleray
Lole - (and i wish you were) - great stuff - i think we can handle as many BT44 images as you can throw at us.

thanks

peter

I would second that. Looking at Brabhams from that era is never a hardship!

[LOLE]

Thank you for your kind reply! Here are some other pictures of Lole's Brabham...

[jadb1]

Every time I see those pictures I cry, I had 14 years and broke my camera photo of sadness, Carlos Reutemann won his first GP and for more than 27 seconds and at the Autodromo de Buenos Aires

Photo Franco Lini, I have it on paper ORIGINAL!







Sorry no speak English use soft Gogle translator

[jadb1]

The car was introduced in Buenos Aires as the first photos, after some testing, due to the high temperatures of Argentina, changed the way

[LOLE]

I know what you feel Alejandro, as a genuine Lole fan...
But in the following 8 years, he gave us, Reutemann-fans all over the world, oh so many nice and thrilling moments...
I wish I could meet him again one day...
Kind regards to you and all Lole fans in Argentina!

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by f1steveuk

The BT52 started the season with a mainly black...

Dark blue, fella ;)

[Bonde]

...dark blue/white or white/dark blue...all Murray's Brabhams had his personal, handsome style, IMO, emphasized by BCE's preference for neat livery! Remarkably, Murray seems to me to be the only top-flight F1 designer who managed to actually style his cars - both body and chassis - in a functional as well as aesthetically appealing way in a distinct lineage for more than a decade! In my book, no-one came even close to leaving such such a personal touch right down to small mechanical details so consistently as Murray did - he is not only a brilliant engineer, he is a genuine artist IMO. His style became so deeply engrained in Brabham that it survived through the non-Murray BT56 and BT58. Barnard's MP4s and Ferraris also bore a strong personal family likeness over time, but IMO not with quite the same aesthetic elegance as Murrays work - but close, particularly for the Ferraris. No questioning Barnard's technical brillinace, though! These days, of course, there is simply no distinguishing feature on any car, IMO, to give you a clue as to who designed/styled it. What a loss for the current generation of fans.

[f1steveuk]

More Bernie stories to come!

I agree about Gordon's designs, he made sure he was involved in every step, and it had to look "whole" as he kept saying. If you look at the sides of the BT42, 44, 44b and 46 cars, the sides were to steep for a driver to push himself out of the cockpit. So there are blocks of wood screwed to the side as a pushing point. I've seen five sheets of drawings for these blocks!!!

[jadb1]

Tanks LOLE


On day 25 Noviemnbre I meet with Lole Reutemann, the journalist Jorge Koechlin, makes it a story there and I'm invited!

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by Twin Window

Dark blue, fella ;)

You really would have thought, having wooshed a duster over all the Brabhams at Biggin Hill, I'd have got that right wouldn't you?

[LOLE]

Lucky you Alejandro!!!
Wish I could be there too!
Please say hello to Lole from his greatest fan in Europe!


This is Lole in the Ferrari pit during the 1974 Argentinian GP

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by LOLE



This is Lole in the Ferrari pit during the 1974 Argentinian GP

Now, what would he have been doing in there!!!?

[LOLE]

Can you imagine this nowadays?......

[COUGAR508]

If that happened these days, there would be an "international incident". In 1974, happily, they were more innocent times...

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by LOLE
Lucky you Alejandro!!!
Wish I could be there too!
Please say hello to Lole from his greatest fan in Europe!


This is Lole in the Ferrari pit during the 1974 Argentinian GP

are you sure its 1974 - those cockpit sections propped up against the wall didnt appear on the B3 until the 1974 South African GP - in South America the early season separate airbox didnt enclose the roll hoop. I think this might be from 1975 - the B3's raced in South America in 1975.

peter

[pitufo]

Originally posted by PeterElleray


are you sure its 1974 - those cockpit sections propped up against the wall didnt appear on the B3 until the 1974 South African GP - in South America the early season separate airbox didnt enclose the roll hoop. I think this might be from 1975 - the B3's raced in South America in 1975.

peter

I think 1974 it's right, but isn't in Argentina

this pic is from Argentina


and this is from South Africa


and look this pic from Argentina 1975


the airbox shows the italian flag colours

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by pitufo


I think 1974 it's right, but isn't in Argentina

this pic is from Argentina


and this is from South Africa


and look this pic from Argentina 1975


the airbox shows the italian flag colours

anoraxia totalis....

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
I thought the BT52 looked absolutely stunning in the original colours, with the black top surfaces and white flanks, and not nearly as attractive in the revised colour scheme.

I always thought the later scheme, bark blue sides with white top surfaces was much more attractive and the original scheme made the car look a bit spindley and anaemic. Just to goes to show beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
One thing we all seem to agree on, GM's designs were always a joy to behold (BT50 being the exception but then it was something of a stop-gap). I can't wait to see this "smarter than a Smart" town car design of his...about the only case I can recall where a road car which didn't have sporting pretentions, has grabbed my imagination!

[LOLE]

Could it be the 1974 German GP? The old paddock with the small garages? But did they use the old paddock then?

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by LOLE
Could it be the 1974 German GP? The old paddock with the small garages? But did they use the old paddock then?

my thoughts aswell - any other pictures of carlos from that weekend (out of the car)? the more anoraxic amongst us could compare socks and length of hair....

peter

(dont worry, not serious!)

[LOLE]

Is possible....

[PeterElleray]

why am i not surprised?!

well done - not sure if it looks like the same weekend or not - what do you reckon?

[LOLE]

The haircut doesn't say much....I think that this strange location (narrow garage) must give the solution...Anyone knows such a garage box? To me it looks very similar to the boxes in the old Nürburgring paddock. Could it also be the old Monza paddock???

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
I thought the BT52 looked absolutely stunning in the original colours, with the black top surfaces and white flanks, and not nearly as attractive in the revised colour scheme.

Excellent story, Steve - got any more, please?

I'm being very careful here!

At the time of the "Bernie gives the labour party £1million" furore, BCE was coming into Biggin Hill fairly regularly, and flying here there and everywhere.

On one visit the usual "the short one is about" warning went around the building, and I happened to be in the offices, where his 'next in charge' was based. It was here that his post was kept, for him to pick up as he traveled through. This particular day, there was a letter from the houses of commons/labour party, which it was rumoured contained the cheque for the returned money, once, having had the £1million for four years, they had decided to give back to Bernie.

I said my usual "good morning Mr E", as he ripped open the envelope. He looked at the cheque, and made one barely audible remark,

"I see they kept the interest"

[fines]

Didn't know he had a sense of humour...

[f1steveuk]

I'm not sure there was that much humour behind it!! Curious though that the first thing he noticed, the first thing through his mind, and within milliseconds of looking at the cheque, was the interest on it! Bless!

[fines]

I didn't mean it.

Ecclestone strikes me as a particular poor person, no sense of humour, no wit, I don't even know if he enjoys his money. Just a poor sod who's got a talent to make dough. I wonder if he cries at night.

[f1steveuk]

Can't say I ever heard tell a joke! From what I saw, he had quite a dull life really, certainly never seemed to enjoy himself much. I only ever got a glimpse of the real bernie a couple of times. Once when talking about Stuart Lewis-Evans, once when talking about the Lotus 79 (!!) and once when we had to move what is left of Elio's BT55.