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IndyCar 2009 (merged)


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#751 Rob

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:39

Originally posted by JACoz
Duno gets a ride (in a top team too) while Justin Wilson & Paul Tracy have nothing...What a farce :down:


If this is true then I think the series has sunk to a new low.

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#752 Dudley

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:43

Originally posted by Rob


If this is true then I think the series has sunk to a new low.


I'm not sure about that, she's not replaced anyone, it's an extra car helping to fund two really good drivers. I don't think I see a problem. If she was there instead of Rahal or Robert I'd be right with you but this is a car that simply wouldn't exist otherwise and is EXTRA on what we saw last year.

#753 ensign14

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:56

I'm trying to think of a similar team-talent disparity in Indycar racing in recent years. I'm thinking maybe Bill Alsup at Penske.

#754 B Squared

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 12:54

And to top it off - a notice of engine rule delays:

http://www.indystar....345/1004/SPORTS

Brian

#755 Rob

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 13:26

Originally posted by Dudley


I'm not sure about that, she's not replaced anyone, it's an extra car helping to fund two really good drivers. I don't think I see a problem. If she was there instead of Rahal or Robert I'd be right with you but this is a car that simply wouldn't exist otherwise and is EXTRA on what we saw last year.


It's just a travesty that Justin Wilson loses out because he doesn't have the cash.

#756 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 13:43

I reckon Doornbos and Wilson are nearly interchangeable, and this keeps the team business going.

#757 red stick

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 14:13

And if this is the solution at the Haas end of the pitlane, what's Coyne going to do?

#758 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 14:43

Originally posted by Rob


It's just a travesty that Justin Wilson loses out because he doesn't have the cash.

Agreed, even worse that Duno is given the drive that he deserves. They'd better have a big sponser lined up for her to pay for all those car parts she inevitably writes of in this coming year. Not to mention that Justin beat Doornbos in champ car and has a full season in the IRL under his belt now with the experience on ovals. How much experience does Doornbos have on ovals?

#759 aportinga

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 14:45

Originally posted by 917k
Aport has spent the last few months dedicating his life to the demise of the ICS, through incessant negativity.

Hell, I did it with CC, and look how effective that was! :lol:

Happy hunting Aport!


No one is hunting - just keeping an eye on how well the direction of OW is going with the man who wanted control.

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#760 ajcrean

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 14:47

Originally posted by Dudley


I'm not sure about that, she's not replaced anyone, it's an extra car helping to fund two really good drivers. I don't think I see a problem. If she was there instead of Rahal or Robert I'd be right with you but this is a car that simply wouldn't exist otherwise and is EXTRA on what we saw last year.


Fair enough, but the real shame here is that a top tier Team like N/H/L is forced to turn to paying drivers as they clearly don't have sufficient sponsorship in place for Rahal's car...

#761 aportinga

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 14:49

Originally posted by JACoz


Duno gets a ride (in a top team too) while Justin Wilson & Paul Tracy have nothing...What a farce :down:


I cannot comment because it would not be objective :lol:

This is priceless however.... Duno may just smoke Danica now. Well at least she has half nude shower commercials to fall back on :up:

#762 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 14:49

Originally posted by aportinga


No one is hunting - just keeping an eye on how well the direction of OW is going with the man who wanted control.


Oh shut up already. It's far more complicated than one person you dislike.

#763 McGuire

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 15:06

Originally posted by ensign14
I'm trying to think of a similar team-talent disparity in Indycar racing in recent years. I'm thinking maybe Bill Alsup at Penske.


It's difficult. 'king Hiro maybe.

#764 Slyder

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 15:26

I believe Hiro became a hack after he broke his legs at Indy...

You don't go from Atlantics Champ to utter hack in such a short period of time, but then again, who knows..?

#765 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 15:27

Wasn't he like an SCCA West Coast Atlantic champ or something?

#766 Keir

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 15:51

I just got back and boy o boy what I have missed !!

Read the papers lately, boys ??? TV news ?? Come out of the cave ?

Autoracing requires money, lots and lots of money and the formerly "top tier" team of Newman, Haas, etc,etc is in an even deeper hole "moneywise" than most having spent far too much time in a dying series (CCWS) than the smarter teams, Rahal/Letterman, AGR, Ganassi, Penske.

Can you blame them if they take the money to continue to do what they do best ?

Like Michael C. once said, "It's business, nothing personal."

Again, sorry for pointing out the obvious. Someone had to do it.

#767 aportinga

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 15:52

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Oh shut up already. It's far more complicated than one person you dislike.


Who would that be?

I don't dislike anyone technically... I simply feel - as a multitude of fans and plenty of people in the business and formerly in the business that the current management was not prepared 13 years ago and still is not today.

No hate there - just amayzment that after this long people think things will change - just because the competition is dead and the only series left standing has a few more cars - well not any more perhaps.

People think that being objective means to negate the past and current mistakes of a leadership which has not changed (barely) since the first wheel was turned in Orlando.

#768 ensign14

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 15:58

Originally posted by Slyder
You don't go from Atlantics Champ to utter hack in such a short period of time, but then again, who knows..?

The other champs around that time were not always top drawer - Brian Till and Jocko Cunningham. Plus the likes of Dave Walker and Ricardo Rosset had decent lower formulae form only to look as out of place as Bob Hoskins in a Miss World contest in the top flight.

Nigel Roebuck mentioned in a 5th column once he saw Hiro go past on his own and noticed he was slower than when he was behind the pace car. :lol:

#769 AyePirate

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 16:00

Originally posted by Keir
I just got back and boy o boy what I have missed !!

Read the papers lately, boys ??? TV news ?? Come out of the cave ?

Autoracing requires money, lots and lots of money and the formerly "top tier" team of Newman, Haas, etc,etc is in an even deeper hole "moneywise" than most having spent far too much time in a dying series (CCWS) than the smarter teams, Rahal/Letterman, AGR, Ganassi, Penske.

Can you blame them if they take the money to continue to do what they do best ?

Like Michael C. once said, "It's business, nothing personal."

Again, sorry for pointing out the obvious. Someone had to do it.


It was a different field but the reality is the same

"No bucks, No Buck Rogers" -The Right Stuff

#770 McGuire

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 16:15

Originally posted by aportinga


Who would that be?

I don't dislike anyone technically... I simply feel - as a multitude of fans and plenty of people in the business and formerly in the business that the current management was not prepared 13 years ago and still is not today.

No hate there - just amayzment that after this long people think things will change - just because the competition is dead and the only series left standing has a few more cars - well not any more perhaps.

People think that being objective means to negate the past and current mistakes of a leadership which has not changed (barely) since the first wheel was turned in Orlando.


But it just gets so damn old reading your stuff. Never positive or even neutral, or analytical really -- just pissing & bitching, always negative. That is your right I suppose, but wouldn't you be happier with your fellow soreheads over at crapwagon.com? They never got over the split either.

#771 Keir

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 16:24

Aye !!

You're right there with the stuff.

aportinga,

You really are not saying that CART was well managed ?? Good lord, they weren't managed at all. They had an endless (at the time) sponsorship pot of gold and spent it like "hard luck Harry" after a big win at the track !!

Dollars and common sense. The economic climate has changed for the worse and autoracing in general must find new ways to go forward. You have always made too much of Tony George's impact. What will you blame him for next ??

#772 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 17:27

Originally posted by ensign14

The other champs around that time were not always top drawer - Brian Till and Jocko Cunningham. Plus the likes of Dave Walker and Ricardo Rosset had decent lower formulae form only to look as out of place as Bob Hoskins in a Miss World contest in the top flight.

Nigel Roebuck mentioned in a 5th column once he saw Hiro go past on his own and noticed he was slower than when he was behind the pace car. :lol:


Yeah but Mark Dismore was pretty good, wasn't he?

#773 aportinga

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 17:59

Originally posted by Keir
Aye !!

You're right there with the stuff.

aportinga,

You really are not saying that CART was well managed ?? Good lord, they weren't managed at all. They had an endless (at the time) sponsorship pot of gold and spent it like "hard luck Harry" after a big win at the track !!


Huh - you're completely missing my posts. I have railed on CART at least 3 times in this thread - See posts 475, 522, 589 & 600.

And McGuire - I was booted from crapwagon over a year ago because I am NOT on that bandwagon - in fact that was my 3rd boot in the last 10 years for the same reason.

Anyhow someone needs to bring a sense of reality to some of the bullshit (Porsche, Audi etc... ) that people are slinging around here.

What's that about the entire configuration being moved back beyond the centenial year???

Geez - how many fanboys - including Miller and Cavin ended up wrong on that?

Here's a novel idea - lets get off the personal stuff and differ back to my earlier comment

Awesome

We'll revisit my comments when the season starts - how bout we leave it at that.



#774 Keir

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 18:45

That would be fine with all of us until the latest, Tony George is satan, Danica/Duno, The Sky is Falling/No it's Not, barrage restarts.

..... and a one and a two !!

#775 aportinga

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 18:57

That's okay with the 3 of you?

"us"

So glad the membership agrees :up:

:lol:

#776 aportinga

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 19:05

Offered with no comment

:snuggles:

http://bleacherrepor...e-domino-theory

http://bleacherrepor...eep-on-tumbling

#777 shaggy

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 01:05

Originally posted by aportinga
Offered with no comment

:snuggles:

http://bleacherrepor...e-domino-theory

http://bleacherrepor...eep-on-tumbling

Just as it is true that some people blame TG for everything; others will not blame him for anything.
After 12 years of listing all type of excuses for his irrational behavior, the bill is due.
CART II was not the answer to the ills that CART had.

CART and ChampCars were so much better than IRL/Indy racing :cry:

Back in those days, at least Little Al et. al. got in trouble for "real" crimes; now, look at the tax evasion crimes that IRL driver(s) commit. They can't even commit real crimes today !

shaggy

#778 red stick

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:03

Originally posted by shaggy
Back in those days, at least Little Al et. al. got in trouble for "real" crimes; now, look at the tax evasion crimes that IRL driver(s) commit. They can't even commit real crimes today !

shaggy


Helio may soon discover how "real" a crime tax evasion is. His trial is less than a month away. Pay close attention to the news coming out of South Florida in the next few weeks. That giant silence is the sound of him NOT reaching some kind of accommodation with prosecutors. And there comes a time, which may already have passed, when prosecutors don't talk to defendants anymore. They finish preparing their cases and work on their opening statements.

Honestly, do we have no one on the board in the Miami area? Courthouses are leaky places. Even federal ones.

#779 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:36

Originally posted by red stick


Helio may soon discover how "real" a crime tax evasion is.


Poor guy, he should have gone for a position in the Obama administration as court dancer or something.
Then it wouldn't have been a crime, just a simple mistake.
;)

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#780 red stick

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:48

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


Poor guy, he should have gone for a position in the Obama administration as court dancer or something.
Then it wouldn't have been a crime, just a simple mistake.
;)


Been awhile since I've looked at the indictment, but I think "mistake" is going to be a hard sell.

#781 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 06:54

Looks like the Atlantics is offering just as much prize money as the IRL - for probably a 10th of the cost to run.

http://auto-racing.s...series-package/

Interesting tactic for Ben Johnston for sure... He may not have Indy but one has got to start asking whether Indy is worth the cost of an entire season in the IRL any longer?

#782 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 15:18

Originally posted by aportinga
Looks like the Atlantics is offering just as much prize money as the IRL - for probably a 10th of the cost to run.

http://auto-racing.s...series-package/

Interesting tactic for Ben Johnston for sure... He may not have Indy but one has got to start asking whether Indy is worth the cost of an entire season in the IRL any longer?


Wow. that's a tonne of cash for any series let alone a 'development' championship....Atlantics to Indy for 2012!

CC

#783 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 15:44

I would imagine that there are former CC folks involved who see the IRL as a "not gonna prosper" issue - especially now because of the economy. The cry since the inception of the league (IRL) was for lowering costs - this has NOT been accomplished ever and now - again with the economy, this matter is even worse.

Alot of this will come into play when the league does not change it's chassis and engine specs - even in 2012! It will just be too costly to justify a return which will then be even worse then it is today.

But here is this little Atlantic series - 2 year old chassis (relatively new in comparison to the out dated Dallara in the IRL). You also have a solid engine which emulates in part, some of the goals that Audi/Porsche reportably wanted (smaller displacement - more economical)... In this sense the Atlantic series is already where the IRL is trying to go but will never get there. Of course this is all happening at a cost a tenth of that compared to the IRL with a payout equal to.

This also goes without saying that the Atlantic series has had some solid racing over the last years. Yes when compared to the IRL there are no ovals and yes - no Indy... But what is the take away as a result - staying in business???

Much like CART killled itself the IRL has done the same by not developing the product properly - whatever THAT means (staying with the original vision or just marketing the current one a bit better). The end result - along with a business world hell bent on metrics are sponsors and vendors who are looking closely at the numbers - specifically those numbers mainly related to the only point of value the league has - Indy 500. Those numbers have been in decline for years - some argue prior to the IRL and some say as a result of the IRL. REGARDLESS they are in a declining pattern and today hold very little justification to build out a budget for an entire team to compete for an entire season.

If the trend continues I would suppose that the ChampCar teams who came into the league last year would take a serious look at Atlantics. Some have the equipment and others teams are still participating. Question is whether these newcoming manufactures talking to the IRL - also talking to ALMS, GrandAm and so on are currently talking with Atlantics as well?

Hell with Dunno signing on at Newman Haas how hard is it to concieve the IRL being shut down in favor for the Lights on an all oval schedule and Atlantics on an all road schedule with a few racing shared between?

:lol: on myself

#784 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 16:45

You don't think if Roger and Chip started racing Atlantic cars against each other the price to be competitive wouldn't go through the roof?

#785 wide-front-wing

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 16:46

It doesn't really matter about CART/Champ Car/IndyCar - the thing was, and always has been the Indy 500.

I think it is still possible to restore the prestige of the 500, and that should be the focus...any formula rules should encourage outside participation in the race...the "league" should be in a supporting role to the race itself, where folks who want to win the 500 can essentially practice for the race...

#786 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 16:51

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You don't think if Roger and Chip started racing Atlantic cars against each other the price to be competitive wouldn't go through the roof?


Not if the controls are in place to manage it... Frankly I do not think (as my post clearly stated) that they would go - I would see the CC teams only jumping - sort of back over in efforts to keep their business alive... 2 cars to 1 cars with no improvement may end up being no team - as we have already seen. How easy would it be for a former CC team to just go to the Atlantics in that case.

Penske and Ganassi - if anything would add cars to support the IRL further or pull out and add more backing to their existing GrandAm programs.

This is not the demise of the IRL - just an option for CC teams who are already familiar with the Atlantic program and may even have existing equipment.

#787 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 16:55

Originally posted by wide-front-wing


I think it is still possible to restore the prestige of the 500, and that should be the focus.


I think we all can agree on that. But in 13 years it is in decline. Without getting into a pissing match as to why the fact remains - after 13 years of trying to market a product (500) which essentially should sell itself, it's failed on all the numerics which sponsors look at. And without sponsors you have less revenue to build the race and series. Add in a bad economy and this is not a solid long term outlook.

But what should go without saying is that after 13 years of failure the lot of them should step aside - not in favor of new ownership but atleast new management.

In other words Tony George the race car owner should fire Tony George the series owner.

#788 Keir

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 17:50

Restore the prestige ?? WOW !! When did the prestige leave ??

In every sponsor deal regarding the IndyCar series, entering and running in the Indy 500, is a deal maker or breaker. So, in strictly business terms, it has all the prestige it ever had.

Now, of course, if you count the dozen or so naysayers/crape hangers/doom predicters/sky is falling/George haters/Anti Duno/Danica/ etc./etc./etc, who couldn't swing a vote in a free money contest nor put any more asses in seats than the "Steven Segal Farewell to Acting Tour", then I guess the prestige is gone. NOT !!!

#789 B Squared

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 17:55

Mark (red stick) - this is the latest on Helio via today's latest Indy Star:

http://www.indystar....TS0107/90205024

Nothing too earth shattering, at least to my limited knowledge. I did see where Roy Black is part of his defense team. I'm thinking that this is good for Helio's team of lawyers.

Brian

#790 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 18:09

Originally posted by Keir
Restore the prestige ?? WOW !! When did the prestige leave ??

In every sponsor deal regarding the IndyCar series, entering and running in the Indy 500, is a deal maker or breaker. So, in strictly business terms, it has all the prestige it ever had.

Now, of course, if you count the dozen or so naysayers/crape hangers/doom predicters/sky is falling/George haters/Anti Duno/Danica/ etc./etc./etc, who couldn't swing a vote in a free money contest nor put any more asses in seats than the "Steven Segal Farewell to Acting Tour", then I guess the prestige is gone. NOT !!!

The Indy500 used to be a world-wide spectacle. Something that everybody in all walks of racing payed attention to and a race that many drivers outside of IndyCar itself desired to race themselves. While its a big deal to the IndyCar series, nobody outside of it really pays much attention these days.

You dont have to be an anti-whatever to realize this. The worst thing they could do is just keep pretending its still the greatest spectacle in motorsports and not do anything.

#791 Keir

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 18:19

As much as I hate to sound sophmoric, but ..... SAYS WHO ???????

Not the Worldwide TV audience, not the other car owners and racers, nor anyone of any credibility.

Don't for a micromillisecond mistake the series, when there are many empty seats disguised as fans, for the IMS, where the house and all it's prestige will remain intact and full.

#792 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 19:07

Originally posted by Keir
Restore the prestige ?? WOW !! When did the prestige leave ??

In every sponsor deal regarding the IndyCar series, entering and running in the Indy 500, is a deal maker or breaker. So, in strictly business terms, it has all the prestige it ever had.

Now, of course, if you count the dozen or so naysayers/crape hangers/doom predicters/sky is falling/George haters/Anti Duno/Danica/ etc./etc./etc, who couldn't swing a vote in a free money contest nor put any more asses in seats than the "Steven Segal Farewell to Acting Tour", then I guess the prestige is gone. NOT !!!


Unless you can offer an explination for decrease in ticket sales and a tank in ratings to back up you claim that the prestige is still there, then I would say your entire response - including the last bit of drivel is nothing more then a waste of bandwidth or deflection - you pick.

I picked up my game - I expect the same from you.

#793 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 19:14

Originally posted by Keir
As much as I hate to sound sophmoric, but ..... SAYS WHO ???????

Not the Worldwide TV audience, not the other car owners and racers, nor anyone of any credibility.

Don't for a micromillisecond mistake the series, when there are many empty seats disguised as fans, for the IMS, where the house and all it's prestige will remain intact and full.


Again - the numbers do not support your argument.

#794 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 19:33

More on that....

Year Indy 500 Daytona 500 Coca-Cola 600 Brickyard 400
1993 9.3/30 (ABC) 8.4 (CBS) 2.7 (TBS) not held
1994 9.1/31 (ABC) 7.9 (CBS) 3.8 (TBS) 5.7 (ABC)
1995 9.4/28 (ABC) 7.8 (CBS) 4.3 (TBS) ?.? (ESPN)
1996 7.1/23 (ABC) 9.2 (CBS) 4.6 (TBS) 4.3 (ABC)
1997 5.0/18 (ABC) 8.6 (CBS) 5.0 (TBS) 5.3 (ABC)
1998 6.0/19 (ABC) 8.6 (CBS) 5.0 (TBS) 4.1 (ABC)
1999 5.5/18 (ABC) 9.6 (CBS) 4.9 (TBS) 4.3/12 (ABC)
2000 5.5/15 (ABC) 8.4 (CBS) 4.3 (TBS) 3.7/12 (ABC)
2001 5.8/17 (ABC) 10.0 (FOX) 5.3 (FOX) 6.2/16 (NBC)
2002 4.8/15 (ABC) 10.9 (NBC) 5.1 (FOX) 6.3/16 (NBC)
2003 4.6/14 (ABC) 9.8 (FOX) 4.7 (FOX) 6.0/15 (NBC)
2004 4.7/11 (ABC) 10.6 (NBC) 5.0 (FOX) 6.1/15 (NBC)
2005 6.5/18 (ABC) 10.9 (FOX) 6.1 (FOX) 6.2/15 (NBC)
2006 5.0/14 (ABC) 11.3 (NBC) 5.1 (FOX) 5.5/13 (NBC)
2007 4.3/12 (ABC) 10.1 (FOX) 4.5 (FOX) 4.2 (ESPN)
2008 4.6/13 (ABC) 10.2 (FOX) 4.7 (FOX) 5.1 (ESPN)

I stand corrected on 2008 - you got %1 increase - probably the CC contingent looking in with a few casual fans who heard of the merger.

#795 Keir

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 19:40

You have been to IMS ?? For the Indy 500 ?

Come on now, aportinga, I gave you at least, more credit.

With 257,000 seats and 400.000 total capacity, it is the largest single day sporting event in the world.

Re-focus your energy. Your overuse of the term "drivel" is tiring and inacurate. You may not like or agree with what I'm saying but where oh where are your figures ? Every year the Indy 500 reaches new broadcast venues, there have been no rejections. The race is broadcast in HD all over the world. I just don't get the denial. It's silly and bordering on childish.

My apologies in advance, but your foot stamping, breath holding, petulance is playing to an empty house.

I don't see any stepping up of what you choose to call a game.
Unless this game is to see who can be more Quixotic ???????

Good lord, man, get some money and buy some speedway stock and attend a few stockholder meetings and tell TG he's all wrong. Tony doesn't believe he's wrong. Maybe he just needs someone like yourself to fill him in ??

Maybe 100 years from now there will be a mall where the speedway once was ?? Then again, maybe not.

#796 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 20:03

No foot stopping here... I am calling your fanboy bullshit out with numbers - now prove me wrong or move on.

#797 Buford

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 20:36

Anybody who doesn't think the Indy 500 has lost attendance as well as TV ratings and prestige since the early 1990s has to be nothing short of a total imbecile. Go back and look at the tapes. I attended 37 straight years and I know what the crowds looked like from the 2nd corner vista deck we could see most of the grounds. The infield on all corners and all of the back straight used to be totally packed dozens deep as well as thousands in the middle of the infield cooking out. Those people are almost all gone now, probably 100,000 people that no longer attend right there... not to mention the tens of thousands of empty seats visible the last few years. Stop acting like a moron.

#798 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 21:07

So much has changed since then in all parts of society that we cannot possibly hold one man, no matter how smart or how inept, responsible.

But if if distilling things down to a bumper sticker is what you guys want to do, go nuts.

#799 ajcrean

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 21:16

Originally posted by Keir
As much as I hate to sound sophmoric, but ..... SAYS WHO ???????

Not the Worldwide TV audience...


You might want to revise that. The ratings have declined dramatically over the years whilst the Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600 and Brickyard 400 now regularly pull in more viewers than "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing" and have done so for a number of years.

You are, however, quite correct in stating that the Indy 500 is the deal maker/breaker for sponsors but that's only because the viewing figures for the rest of the IRL's races could charitably be called pathetic...

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#800 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 21:56

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
So much has changed since then in all parts of society that we cannot possibly hold one man, no matter how smart or how inept, responsible.

But if if distilling things down to a bumper sticker is what you guys want to do, go nuts.


Did I say one man???

Things change in life and the world. A fluid - viable business will move along with those changes and still manage some success - that is the sign of a solild company period. The IRL has never reached this in a business sense - so who do you blame??? CART? ChampCar???

The IRL had an opportunity from day one to make something of itself - outside the control of another race series or BoD - THAT was the entire point of the split. What have they done with that? Shifted gears completely away from the original premis and basically absorb all the same screw ups which CART/CC learned before. Eventually they embraced a multitude of CART/CC theories and practices which once stood out as all that was bad with open wheel 13 years ago - which drove the very creation of the series.

Not one many - a multitude of managers and marketing morons which one man surrounded himself with.