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IndyCar 2009 (merged)


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#801 aportinga

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 22:05

Originally posted by ajcrean

You are, however, quite correct in stating that the Indy 500 is the deal maker/breaker for sponsors but that's only because the viewing figures for the rest of the IRL's races could charitably be called pathetic...


Absolutely...

May alone is reported to be $1-2 mill for a full time (2 car effort)... And according to Robin Miller Honda is reporting the following for just those teams showing up with one car for the Indy only...

It's not known what a possible reduced schedule might mean for Honda engine leases. Right now, a full-blown lease for May is $225,000 and a second week only program is $95,000.



But what is the payout for the teams in the top 10 finishing positions? Seriously I do not know if that even gives back anything against costs???

What could a CDW get for that same investment? Since the ratings have shrunk they now have to compete with a multitude of other programs which are equal to or greater then the exposure provided by the 500 - and that does not even address the problems of demographics...

The 500 is the ONLY barganing chip on the table - hell even Kalkoven stated plenty of times that they would reel in a sponsor only to lose them when that sponsor figured out that ChampCar was NOT the series which ran in the 500.

That being said so long as the race declines and other programs increase or hold, that barganing chip will show for less and less...

Oh and having the first 4 races on an obscure cable netowrk - leading up to the 500 isn't gonna help either. But that's the economy's fault :rolleyes:

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#802 AyePirate

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 22:12

and

NASCAR really got its act together in the meantime creating an environment that didn't suffer fools gladly. Now the recession is just here to pick the scraps off of the bones.

#803 red stick

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 23:19

Originally posted by B Squared
. . . this is the latest on Helio via today's latest Indy Star . . .

Brian


Typical pre-trial sparring. With Robert Bennett representing Miller, the case certainly doesn't lack for legal firepower. Not severing the cases indicates there's no reason to try them separately, i.e., conflicting defenses. We'll have to see what happens after Monday's hearing, but at least based on what is reported here, this looks like a case headed for trial.

#804 wide-front-wing

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 00:25

I am just truly shocked that anyone would argue that the 500 has anywhere near the prestige and statue it used to have before the split...

That is simply an amazing display of denial...

#805 shaggy

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 00:32

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
So much has changed since then in all parts of society that we cannot possibly hold one man, no matter how smart or how inept, responsible.

But if if distilling things down to a bumper sticker is what you guys want to do, go nuts.

You were always in favor of closing CC - quite a simple "solution." But, just like McGuire et.al, you always hide behind "complexity," "economy," etc to divert attention from all of Indy's failures.
Why couldn't the simple solution have been to dissolve the IRL and join CC ? At least, they were real businessmen.

Stop pretending that you are the voice of reason or of an open mind. But, if that is what you like to do, go nuts.

#806 red stick

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 01:50

Originally posted by Keir
"Steven Seagal Farewell to Acting Tour"



Uh, actually, I'd, uh, pay to see that.

#807 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 01:53

Originally posted by wide-front-wing
I am just truly shocked that anyone would argue that the 500 has anywhere near the prestige and statue it used to have before the split...

That is simply an amazing display of denial...


I believe the year the 500 grabbed a 4.3 rating, the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show hooked a 3.6 on night 1 and a 4.2 on the 2nd night (Best in Show). This of course was while the 500 was (is) on a major network and the Westminster was on cable.

I'll refrain from the double digit blow outs Sponge Bob manages ahead of every other IRL race... I guess I can understand - with a 9 year old and 3 year old in the house I gotta admit, Squarepants and Starfish are pretty funny!

#808 red stick

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 01:54

Originally posted by Keir
I don't see any stepping up of what you choose to call a game.


In fairness, Keir, he does seem to be quoting actual stats and more frequently sourcing his material. As they say, a journey of a thousand miles begins etc. etc.

#809 SKL

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 03:13

This has got to be an early April fools joke- I've only seen it at Speedtv.com... If so, the end is near and PLN is rolling over in his grave...and Carl Haas needs some major Alzheimer meds!

#810 beanoid

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 05:16

http://auto-racing.s...n-hass-lanigan/

(Not that I care, mind. Just trying to be helpful and neighborly.)

#811 ColdHeart

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 07:47

Why couldn't the simple solution have been to dissolve the IRL and join CC ? At least, they were real businessmen.



They were such terrific "real businessmen" they went bankrupt twice.

#812 D82

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:08

For the TV ratings Aportinga posted, this might help better:

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#813 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:36

That doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. NASCAR are experts not at motorsport, but at making sure graphs like that happen. I don't know how you could possibly unravel them.

Again, there are so many factors that go into this that can't be undone. Even in a perfect world, qualifying crowds were eventually going to go down. It was inevitable. Becuase eventually Tom Carnegie would no longer be claiming "It's a new lap record!". We've already broken the 150mph and 200mph average lap barriers. 210 stopped being impressive, even 230 becomes just another number. There was going to come a day where even in a perfect Indycar world they could no longer, or would no longer be allowed to, go any faster.
,
The novelty factor in anything was going to wane as developments moved from revolutionary to evolutionary. Robin Miller likes to bang his drum about a lack of innovation at the Brickyard. Dude, do you watch the rest of racing? There's nothing new anywhere. It's all refinement. But it's easy to wax nostalgic about Indianapolis and think it could somehow have been averted. I don't know that it could have. CART, IRL, whatever, whoever; was on an unsustainable economic model as the split began. The split was a result of things just as much as it was a start of them.

#814 McGuire

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 13:23

Originally posted by shaggy

You were always in favor of closing CC - quite a simple "solution." But, just like McGuire et.al, you always hide behind "complexity," "economy," etc to divert attention from all of Indy's failures.
Why couldn't the simple solution have been to dissolve the IRL and join CC ? At least, they were real businessmen.


Motorsports is a real business and should be managed by motorsports professionals. Just because you can run a shoe store does not mean you can run a race track, race team, or racing series.

Look at all the "real businessmen" who went into NASCAR in recent years buying into race teams. Got their clocks cleaned.

"Real businessmen" created the current global economic crisis.

#815 ajcrean

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 13:27

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
The split was a result of things just as much as it was a start of them.


:up:

Certainly one of the more sensible statements I've seen on the subject in quite some time!

I've long since lost interest in the blame game. Frankly, both sides needed a good, hard smack around the head in '95 and it's tragic that no-one ever obliged.

For us fans, I'm just gutted when I think back to what American OW racing was up until the mid-nineties and then compare it with the sorry and imploding joke that we've been subjected to ever since!

#816 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 14:14

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
That doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. NASCAR are experts not at motorsport, but at making sure graphs like that happen. I don't know how you could possibly unravel them.

If you ignore the NASCAR statistics and focus on the thing that's been discussed, it certainly does say a lot. You're right that it doesn't tell us anything we dont already know, though.

#817 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 14:30

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You don't think if Roger and Chip started racing Atlantic cars against each other the price to be competitive wouldn't go through the roof?


Perhaps, but rules could be put in place to limit or prevent development of certain parts, eg. aero.

CC

#818 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 14:32

Originally posted by ColdHeart


They were such terrific "real businessmen" they went bankrupt twice.


CART eventually became "all about me" and then fell apart. CC management did well at first but I think they had no clue what they were getting involved with - when they did they bailed.

#819 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 14:35

Originally posted by McGuire


Just because you can run a shoe store does not mean you can run a race track, race team, or racing series.


Just because you inherent a speedway doesn't mean you can run it - or an entire series..... 13 years later :rolleyes:

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#820 red stick

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 14:39

Originally posted by aportinga
CART eventually became "all about me" and then fell apart. CC management did well at first but I think they had no clue what they were getting involved with - when they did they bailed.


:eek:

"No clue what they were getting involved with?" Forsythe? Kalkhoven?

Maybe running a racing series is just inherently difficult, whether you inherit the series or not.

#821 red stick

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 14:42

Originally posted by ajcrean
I've long since lost interest in the blame game. Frankly, both sides needed a good, hard smack around the head in '95 and it's tragic that no-one ever obliged.


:up:

#822 wide-front-wing

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 14:57

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
That doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. NASCAR are experts not at motorsport, but at making sure graphs like that happen. I don't know how you could possibly unravel them.

Again, there are so many factors that go into this that can't be undone. Even in a perfect world, qualifying crowds were eventually going to go down. It was inevitable. Becuase eventually Tom Carnegie would no longer be claiming "It's a new lap record!". We've already broken the 150mph and 200mph average lap barriers. 210 stopped being impressive, even 230 becomes just another number. There was going to come a day where even in a perfect Indycar world they could no longer, or would no longer be allowed to, go any faster.
,
The novelty factor in anything was going to wane as developments moved from revolutionary to evolutionary. Robin Miller likes to bang his drum about a lack of innovation at the Brickyard. Dude, do you watch the rest of racing? There's nothing new anywhere. It's all refinement. But it's easy to wax nostalgic about Indianapolis and think it could somehow have been averted. I don't know that it could have. CART, IRL, whatever, whoever; was on an unsustainable economic model as the split began. The split was a result of things just as much as it was a start of them.


Wow.

Just wow. I am amazed at the revisionist thinking in this thread - 1996 was a wild gamble, it threw the sport into a massive death spiral - to look back at it now and call it evolutionary is just....well amazing to me...

#823 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 15:32

Originally posted by McGuire
"Real businessmen" created the current global economic crisis.


:rotfl:
Yup, it's all their fault.
Ignorance at it's peak.

#824 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 15:36

Originally posted by red stick


:eek:

"No clue what they were getting involved with?" Forsythe? Kalkhoven?

Maybe running a racing series is just inherently difficult, whether you inherit the series or not.


I agree 100%. However based on both of their business experience one would of (I thought at least) they would have done more due dilligence.

#825 McGuire

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 15:39

Originally posted by aportinga


Just because you inherent a speedway doesn't mean you can run it - or an entire series..... 13 years later :rolleyes:


No, but it does mean he IS going to run it. CART management made a big mistake in not doing business with the Speedway in 1991-94. Some of George's ideas were not so good but some of them were very good, and at any rate he had a right to be at the table. So negotiate already. Find common ground, share power, develop a plan, move forward.

#826 Keir

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 16:07

Sorry there boys, in the middle of re-reading "war and peace", I mean the Indy 2009 thread, it seems that things always come back to stats.

aportinga giving us the "always acurate" TV network released figures. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Buford, who while holding down several jobs including official attendance counter for IMS, who BTW have never released attendance figures - EVER, gives us the view from the top of the world !! :rolleyes:

A few facts.

The Indy 500 is the world's most famous motor race.

The Indy 500 plays in HD to a worldwide audience.

Tony George owns the speedway and can do whatever he pleases with it.

Tony George funds the IndyCar series with his own money.

None of the raceteam owners/racedrivers/track owners does squat for the series.

The same disinterest/greed/foolishness that killed CART is fermenting for future havoc.

The economy is a mess.

The Money that Tony George puts into the IndyCar series is gleefully spent by the very people who will scew the series into nonexistance.

CART, for the good of the sport, should have ceased to exist in 1/1/1996.

The sky isn't falling.

#827 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 16:31

Originally posted by Keir


The Indy 500 is the world's most famous motor race.


I will always dispute that, I reckon if you polled the european populus and possibly asia as well on recognition of the Indy 500 and the Monace GP, Monaco would be more recognised.

#828 ajcrean

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 16:34

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Keir
Sorry there boys, in the middle of re-reading "war and peace", I mean the Indy 2009 thread, it seems that things always come back to stats.
aportinga giving us the "always acurate" TV network released figures. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
OK... Let's see your figures then 'cos all the ones that I'm aware of tie in with what aportinga's saying
[QUOTE]Buford, who while holding down several jobs including official attendance counter for IMS, who BTW have never released attendance figures - EVER, gives us the view from the top of the world !! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]
Once again, something that's been reported for a number of years and is definitely noticable when watching the race on TV. Also, the sarcasm you're directing at Buford is childish and unnecessary.
[QUOTE]The Indy 500 is the world's most famous motor race.[/QUOTE]
Debatable and a matter of opinion. Twenty years ago I might have agreed with you but now I would say that it's a toss-up between the Monaco GP and Le Mans 24 Hours. I'd also be inclined to now rate the Daytona 24 Hours as bigger than Indy.
[QUOTE]The Indy 500 plays in HD to a worldwide audience.[/QUOTE]
If no-one's watching, who cares?
[QUOTE]Tony George owns the speedway and can do whatever he pleases with it.[/QUOTE]
True, and he has. The results have been less than stellar.
[QUOTE]Tony George funds the IndyCar series with his own money.[/QUOTE]
Again, true, but he wanted his own series so if you're asking me to feel sympathy for him, you're wasting your breath.
[QUOTE]None of the raceteam owners/racedrivers/track owners does squat for the series.[/QUOTE]
They've all turned up and raced or hosted races, haven't they?
[QUOTE]The same disinterest/greed/foolishness that killed CART is fermenting for future havoc[/QUOTE]
It certainly killed CART and the only reason that it hasn't yet killed the IRL is because the money pot is deeper. If they carry on the way they are, it'll eventually kill them too.
[QUOTE]The Money that Tony George puts into the IndyCar series is gleefully spent by the very people who will scew the series into nonexistance.[/QUOTE]
Then he should exercise tighter control over his money and attach conditions before handing it out. Again, I don't feel sorry for him.
[QUOTE]CART, for the good of the sport, should have ceased to exist in 1/1/1996.[/QUOTE]
Rubbish. For the good of the sport, the formation of the IRL should never have been necessary.
[QUOTE]The sky isn't falling. [/QUOTE]
There are a number of IRL Teams, drivers and employees who might disagree with you on that one...

#829 Slowinfastout

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 16:40

Originally posted by Keir


CART, for the good of the sport, should have ceased to exist in 1/1/1996.


WTF?!... I dispute that as well..

CART 1996

IRL 1996

#830 Keir

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 16:59

Hey, nicely done.

Buford brings it on himself.

Who says, no one is watching ?? I don't see any rejection of signal stats !! Reports from the "Super Bowl" suggest that Springstein played to one of the biggest audiences ever !! But only if they had their TVs in the various bathrooms and food lines. Network TV ratings are a tool for the networks to deal with the sponsors. I live and work across from the greatest city on the planet and I've never met anyone with a neilsen box. In the sportsbar that I watched the SB in, no one watched the halftime show or ever has. The game and said show played on never the less. Total audience in the bar, about 90 and not one of them could tell you what songs were played. The ratings would tell you a very different story.

Who said, Let's feel sorry for Tony George ?????????? But he is the only individual behind the series.

The C in CART stood for contrived.

CART 96 and IRL 96 should have been the same series. The greed mongers dragged their collective feet until the profit went away and then like the rats that they are jumped ship to the Tony George is Satan IRL.

We all know that if the Billionaire Race Boys Club had done the right thing then, this thread would be a lot shorter.

#831 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:02

Originally posted by McGuire


No, but it does mean he IS going to run it. CART management made a big mistake in not doing business with the Speedway in 1991-94. Some of George's ideas were not so good but some of them were very good, and at any rate he had a right to be at the table. So negotiate already. Find common ground, share power, develop a plan, move forward.


I find no problem with that statement.

#832 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:05

Originally posted by Keir


aportinga giving us the "always acurate" TV network released figures. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


My numbers look pretty accurate next to the graph presented by another poster.

Again - where is your proof that Indy is the biggest race in the world - where is your proof that the race is broadcasted in HD worldwide? I cannot find concrete numbers on those points - so where are you finding them? WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?

What I can discuss are ratings and attendance - all which prove you wrong. None the less you go on like a boy with his fingers in his ears yelling bla-bla-bla because you simply cannot comprehend any sense of reality when it comes to OW racing in America.

Sorry Keir - as far as I am concerned you're doing nothing but insulting and deflecting - you simply do not deserve further responses nor the respect to go with this discussion. Even McGuire has moments of objective thought.

:down:

#833 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:09

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback


I will always dispute that, I reckon if you polled the european populus and possibly asia as well on recognition of the Indy 500 and the Monace GP, Monaco would be more recognised.


LeMans - shit even the Tour De France has more single day attendance but I did not want to sound like an asshole in refuting one of his earlier responses...

#834 ajcrean

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:18

Originally posted by Keir
Reports from the "Super Bowl" suggest that Springstein played to one of the biggest audiences ever !!

Indeed. I had to sit through nearly two hours of a sport that leaves me utterly confused just so that I could see The Boss in action.

Network TV ratings are a tool for the networks to deal with the sponsors. I live and work across from the greatest city on the planet and I've never met anyone with a neilsen box.

Not sure what your arguement is here: the Nielson Rating is the Industry's standard so obviously sponsors would look at these.

The C in CART stood for contrived.

The "I" in IRL stood for incompetence.

CART 96 and IRL 96 should have been the same series.

Agree 100%.

#835 Keir

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:20

Sorry,

Didn't see any insulting going on from my part.

I ask for proof and I get local TV ratings for an event that is broadcast worldwide and eyewitness accounts from the stands. That may get you an entry at the "penny ante" table, but I haven't seen any proof of the loss of prestige of the Indy 500.

Ask Roger Penske et al why they enter the IndyCar series and they will tell you what they tell their sponsors.

THE INDY 500.

What race on the Indy Car calendar is the most important - THE INDY 500.

How did the inept Tony George beat the all powerful CART - THE INDY 500.

What race, after one wins it, goes to the top of the resume - THE INDY 500. Just ask Mario.

But, of course, no one really cares or watches.

What number post is this ?? Hmmmmm!!!

Denny Crain, I mean - THE INDY 500

#836 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:30

I think your last few posts pointed out - for me at least, that you are the biggest fanboy here and should probably be having your discussions limited to another Pro-IRL message board.

That being said there is no reason for you and I to discuss further - you simply lack rationale altogether.

#837 Slowinfastout

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:34

Originally posted by Keir
Sorry,

Didn't see any insulting going on from my part.

I ask for proof and I get local TV ratings for an event that is broadcast worldwide and eyewitness accounts from the stands. That may get you an entry at the "penny ante" table, but I haven't seen any proof of the loss of prestige of the Indy 500.

Ask Roger Penske et al why they enter the IndyCar series and they will tell you what they tell their sponsors.

THE INDY 500.

What race on the Indy Car calendar is the most important - THE INDY 500.

How did the inept Tony George beat the all powerful CART - THE INDY 500.

What race, after one wins it, goes to the top of the resume - THE INDY 500. Just ask Mario.

But, of course, no one really cares or watches.

What number post is this ?? Hmmmmm!!!

Denny Crain, I mean - THE INDY 500


..and back when the split happened the Indy 500 was all the IRL was, while CART was still a decent series.

At least we all agree the split never should have happened... imagine if we put ourselves during the best years of F1 and Monaco for some reasons decides to detach itself from F1 and run its thing separately, starting with an inferior schedule and inferior cars (and drivers)... everyone would go :confused: :confused: ):

#838 ajcrean

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:35

Originally posted by Keir
THE INDY 500

Dude, I get it. This is clearly a losing battle but I'm not trying to tell you that the Indy ain't the jewel in the IRL crown. It is, but it's not what it used to be. To argue otherwise can only mean that you're either Tony George or your grip on reality is hanging by a very thin thread.

Of course Roger Penske tells sponsors that it's all about the 500 but then it's going to be a bitch trying to sell them on the Peak Antifreeze & Motor Oil Indy Grand Prix of Sonoma County at the Infineon Raceway, isn't it.

The Indy 500's glory days are still fairly fresh in the mind for anyone over the age of 35, which is why sponsors can still be sold on it. I wonder, though, if that'll still be the case 10, 15, 20 years from now...

#839 McGuire

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:41

Originally posted by aportinga


Even McGuire has moments of objective thought.


I might be the most objective follower of North American open wheel racing on earth. At most times you are lost out in the tall grass somewhere.

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#840 Keir

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:46

I am a fan of open wheel racing.

The venues I hold above all.

IMS
Spa Francorchamps - old and new
Nurburgring - old
Watkins Glen - old and new
Lime Rock Park - old and new
Elkhart Lake
Bridgehampton - may it rest in peace
Le Mans - Circuit de La Sarthe
Clermont Ferrand
Monaco

All have undeniable pedigree and prestige and the naysayers need not reply, you are either a fan or you are not. You either get it or you don't.

No one is watching Indy, but every sponsor wants their name on a car that races there.

Non Sequitur.

#841 Slyder

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:48

Originally posted by McGuire


I might be the most objective follower of North American open wheel racing on earth. At most times you are lost out in the tall grass somewhere.


You're doing this to provoke Buford, aren't you? :lol:

#842 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 17:57

Originally posted by Keir
You either get it or you don't.


Shouldn't you change that to agree with me or I'll harass you with nonsense?
Bridgehampton and Clermont Ferrand above Monaco?
Freakin' hilarious!

#843 Keir

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 18:01

Cloudy water,

They're not in order, you dolt !!! Wakey, wakey !!!

You didn't get IT !!!!

#844 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 18:11

Originally posted by Keir
Cloudy water,

They're not in order, you dolt !!! Wakey, wakey !!!

You didn't get IT !!!!


Thanks for the clarification.
When you put indy at the top, I assumed you thought it was # 1
Glad you see the error in your ways.

#845 Keir

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 18:28

If there was ever a number one, it would be Spa for me.

..... and errors are for baseballers !

Denny Crain

#846 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 19:00

Originally posted by ajcrean



Of course Roger Penske tells sponsors that it's all about the 500 but then it's going to be a bitch trying to sell them on the Peak Antifreeze & Motor Oil Indy Grand Prix of Sonoma County at the Infineon Raceway, isn't it.


Actually if Keir "read" posts he would have already noted that it was Marlboro in a host of emails and letters to Penske that forced Penske's hand....

So yeah - it is all about Indy. We "all" agree but that's not the discussion - it's Keir's defelction in absence of refuting metrics.

#847 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 19:01

Originally posted by McGuire


I might be the most objective follower of North American open wheel racing on earth. .


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#848 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 19:03

Originally posted by Keir
I am a fan of open wheel racing.

The venues I hold above all.

IMS
Spa Francorchamps - old and new
Nurburgring - old
Watkins Glen - old and new
Lime Rock Park - old and new
Elkhart Lake
Bridgehampton - may it rest in peace
Le Mans - Circuit de La Sarthe
Clermont Ferrand
Monaco

All have undeniable pedigree and prestige and the naysayers need not reply, you are either a fan or you are not. You either get it or you don't.

No one is watching Indy, but every sponsor wants their name on a car that races there.

Non Sequitur.


Oh my... I hope the sponsors in F1 aren't reading this!!! It's curtains for Bernie if that's the case :wave:

#849 Keir

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 19:41

aportinga,

You must be short 'cos everything goes over your head !!

Penske does what the people who pay his bills tell him to do, they let him slide in '96, afterwhich he was no longer in a position of power to decide things. Much like yourself. Failing metrics and all that, still no refute on worldwide broadcast numbers. People with neilsen boxes are watching less Indy 500, that same crosscut of society that deemed Star Trek wasn't worth watching. Just don't tell JJ Abrams.

The list of venues that "I" hold above all. You missed IT. You didn't get IT. You'll never get IT.

I don't critique Bernie. Bernie runs a fine show. F1 sponsors don't know me nor care what I think.

The next time you critique Tony George or the Indy 500 read the line above and substitute the following;

I, aportinga, do not know how to run a racing series, I do, however critique a guy that does. Tony George does not know me, nor does he care what I think because I bring nothing to the table. The only people Tony should listen to are too selfish/greedy to have any real credibilty. Hence the problem.

#850 aportinga

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 19:49

Originally posted by Keir
aportinga,

You must be short 'cos everything goes over your head !!

Penske does what the people who pay his bills tell him to do


Evidently you are not comprehending your own posts...

Originally posted by Keir

Ask Roger Penske et al why they enter the IndyCar series and they will tell you what they tell their sponsors .


Originally posted by Keir
The list of venues that "I" hold above all. You missed IT. You didn't get IT. You'll never get IT.


I have not commented on this...?

Originally posted by Keir

I don't critique Bernie. Bernie runs a fine show. F1 sponsors don't know me nor care what I think.


Well apparently they do not know about Indy as well since they are NOT there... or perhaps your statement below was just more bullshit?

Originally posted by Keir


No one is watching Indy, but every sponsor wants their name on a car that races there.