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IndyCar 2009 (merged)


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#1051 aportinga

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 17:17

Originally posted by Keir
Free Helio !!


7 Counts to throw out - all denied by the Judge. I guess that Judge just does not know what Indy means :lol:

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#1052 aportinga

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 17:19

Originally posted by rghojai
So manufacturers relating a perceived value in F1 racing in the USA are lying? Not as smart as those here who say otherwise?

Further more do you understand ratings? If so please tell me the ratings for all the USGP and then justify how any manufacture would find more value in said ratings against really anything on Network television??? Hell Sponge Bob plows the USGP ratings 3 times over man!

There are differences between ratings relative to other shows and acceptable ratings.

The USGP by year 2 had asses in the seats and that's it. There was no further value then what was sold at the track and that is exactly when the USGP moved from ABC to cable within a year.

There is a reasonable view that success or failure, whoever defines it and how they define it, would take more than a couple years.

Why is it gone if the Manufacture wanted it? Was it the venue (Indy)? Was it the Venue management (Tony George).

Where is it written that the manufacturers have enough power to make a race happen, regardless of venue management or otherwise?


They don't - my point is they did nothing to involve themselves in promotions from year one... AND when the plug was pulled they just had a few press comments.

#1053 Jambo

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 17:26

Caffeine FTW

#1054 AyePirate

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 17:48

Originally posted by aportinga


The discusion was manufactures *wanted to be in the States - which somehow was linked with F1. That is all I am arguing.

As far as your comments I agree. All I am saying is, if the manufactures were so interested they would have at least had a car corrall with clubs. Shit even Road America does that.


OK Gotcha.

The thing I wonder about is the impact racing has on sales in mature markets like North America/Europe (where the market size is set and the "share" is all that is in play).
I think it is minimal. If it had much of an impact one would think Chevy and Ford should be doing a lot better in America given their dominance in NASCAR (although this could be down to the fact that these cars have zero parts in common with their road going counterparts). Racing's impact may be a lot greater in emerging markets where the car culture is still in its formative stages though. All the more reason to race in these markets.
On track success seemed to mean a lot more in the US when I was a kid (the muscle car era) when the manufacturers lives by the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" motto.
Now I think at least half of the auto buying decisions are driven by women who on a whole care very little about racing. Again in some of the emerging markets the decision on an auto purchase is an exclusively male domain which again may increase the influence of racing on buying.


......So sinking big $ into IndyCar or any other NA series may not be the best move at this time especially

#1055 Seanspeed

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 18:33

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Well it ain't Penthouse . . . . but Danica's done the Sports Illustrated Calendar for 2009 :

SI 2009

:clap:

Focusing on what she does best apparently. :rolleyes:

#1056 red stick

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 21:46

Does anybody know what happened in Helio's case yesterday? The Indy Star and Miami Herald websites were silent on the subject this morning, and yesterday was supposed to be the day he and his sister were arguing for the dismissal of several counts on statute of limitations grounds.

#1057 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 21:54

Originally posted by red stick
Does anybody know what happened in Helio's case yesterday? The Indy Star and Miami Herald websites were silent on the subject this morning, and yesterday was supposed to be the day he and his sister were arguing for the dismissal of several counts on statute of limitations grounds.


Buried up there somewhere in Keir's blather I think I saw that Helio was seeking to have 7 of the charges against him withdrawn, and the judge denied on all of them.

#1058 aportinga

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 21:55

Originally posted by red stick
Does anybody know what happened in Helio's case yesterday? The Indy Star and Miami Herald websites were silent on the subject this morning, and yesterday was supposed to be the day he and his sister were arguing for the dismissal of several counts on statute of limitations grounds.


7 Counts for dissmisal and 7 rejected by the judge - apparently tomorrow they (HCN & lawyers) will argue on the statute of limitations based on the time of the crime vs time if the charges.

#1059 aportinga

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 21:56

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


Buried up there somewhere in Keir's blather I think I saw that Helio was seeking to have 7 of the charges against him withdrawn, and the judge denied on all of them.


Thanks - I appreciate my thoughtful moments mistaken for his recent shit - THAT was me!

:wave:

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#1060 red stick

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 21:58

Thanks.

#1061 Slyder

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 22:01

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Well it ain't Penthouse . . . . but Danica's done the Sports Illustrated Calendar for 2009 :

SI 2009

:clap:



Time to swing the sausage out... :p

Well, bad publicity makes for good publicity I guess.

Now we all eagerly await the Playboy Special IndyCar Edition: Danica Patrick, Milka Duno and Sarah Fisher baring it all for the camera... ;) :p :lol:

#1062 aportinga

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 22:07

I would consider watching those 4 races if the series handed Legge a solid ride.

#1063 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 15:11

It affects who competes this year and in all likelihood will affect the championship.

#1064 Jambo

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 15:22

Well if what you are saying is correct then how is all that umm, information, you spouted yesterday relevant to the 2009 season. Should have been in the Nostagia Forum!

;)

#1065 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 15:39

Originally posted by Keir
When the verdict comes in, then it's revelant. It isn't now.

The details of the case are obviously going to affect the verdict, so it is relevant.

#1066 Jambo

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 15:45

Lol fair enough.

#1067 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 15:48

Originally posted by Keir
Then it should be on the "Free Helio" thread, not here.

But if affects whether or not he'll be racing. This can go in circles for hours. Me? I find it logical to come to this thread if I want to find out any news about his trial. Which actually suprises myself considering that you've done a great job of making this thread a jumbled mess for people looking to seek informative discussion about IndyCar, but hey, a shift from spamming to forum police is an improvement in my book.

#1068 ensign14

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 15:54

Originally posted by Keir
He cheated on his taxes, he got caught, end of story as it relates to Indycar 2009.

ALLEGEDLY.

(just in case Mr Penske's lawyers are watching)

#1069 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 17:03

Originally posted by Keir
Which is why Helio deserves his own thread.

That way, people interested in the "Life and Times of Helio Castro Neves" won't have to search through the "Tony George is Satan"/Danica/Duno can't drive but should pose nude/Neilsen Ratings rule/I have the secret code/I'm the only one right/Buford is a blowhard/aportinga should have one capital letter in his name/ endless tripe disguised as info about Indycar 2009.

Hmmm....so when it comes to something that matters to the 2009 IndyCar season, it needs its own thread, but there's no problem with you endlessly bickering about these topics that you're implying are irrelevant? Cuz it seems to me you haven't spoken a lick of anything 2009-relevant in quite a while, while being one of the main instigators of these topics you're implying have been irrelevant(no, being on the defensive side doesn't excuse you from blame).

Sorry, I'm just terribly confused as to the standards of this thread, as dictated by you in particular.

#1070 aportinga

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 17:21

Anyone seen the spoof that AVIS signed a sponsorship deal with HCN? It was a sure sign of hope yesterday - before some fans did a little digging and found out that they had been had.

I would like to add to my earlier comment that PKV may be out altogether - It is actually looking now that they may have a 1 car team ready.

Albiet that's good for the series, I feel that with less exposure - far less and an economy that is NOT poised to get any better - any time soon, that many of these teams reducing from 2 cars to 1 car this year will be gone altogether by 2010.

This is one reason why I am bewildered that the series just does not open the chassis and engine regs altogether - so long as everything passes the required saftey standards - specifically on super speedways. Let the DP01, Reynard, Lola in with a Turbo Cosi or Buick V6. Who gives a shit about conformity and exclusive contracts??? The series needs imediate resolutions and opening up these regs would surely address some of the cah problems as well as add a bit of what the 500 was known for - diversity.

#1071 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 17:33

Originally posted by aportinga
This is one reason why I am bewildered that the series just does not open the chassis and engine regs altogether - so long as everything passes the required saftey standards - specifically on super speedways. Let the DP01, Reynard, Lola in with a Turbo Cosi or Buick V6. Who gives a shit about conformity and exclusive contracts??? The series needs imediate resolutions and opening up these regs would surely address some of the cah problems as well as add a bit of what the 500 was known for - diversity.

Its not as if running the current cars is what's making it too expensive, though. Its purely just sponsorship, isn't it? Thats not going to change no matter what cars are used.

#1072 MPea3

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 17:40

Originally posted by ensign14

ALLEGEDLY.

(just in case Mr Penske's lawyers are watching)


Tax court is the one place in the US where you enter needing to prove your innocence. The government seems much less concerned about one's rights when their money is at stake.

#1073 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 18:07

Originally posted by MPea3
The government seems much less concerned about one's rights when their money is at stake.


Unless you want a cabinet post in the Obama administration. A simple "I screwed up" seems to be OK at that point.

#1074 red stick

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 18:33

Originally posted by MPea3


Tax court is the one place in the US where you enter needing to prove your innocence. The government seems much less concerned about one's rights when their money is at stake.


Just to clarify, this is not a civil tax case. This is a federal criminal matter.

#1075 aportinga

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 20:50

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Its not as if running the current cars is what's making it too expensive, though. Its purely just sponsorship, isn't it? Thats not going to change no matter what cars are used.


Wrong.. When you have an exclusive contract - which the IRL does, the OEM (Dallara) can do anything - including raising the price of spare parts. On THAT note, it was the spare parts of the Reynard and Lolas - their cost specifically, which drove CC to choose Elan/Panoz to develop the DP01 to replace the more costly and older parts for the Lolas and Reynards...

I can probably dig up a comparative analysis on those parts if you like -I know it was significant.

#1076 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 20:52

So basically you have expensive spares whether you have an open chassis formula or a spec one.

You should talk to the folks at Gillette sometime.

#1077 red stick

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 20:56

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
So basically you have expensive spares whether you have an open chassis formula or a spec one.

You should talk to the folks at Gillette sometime.



:rotfl:

#1078 aportinga

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 22:12

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
So basically you have expensive spares whether you have an open chassis formula or a spec one.

You should talk to the folks at Gillette sometime.


What's your point?

When product gets old and outdated it naturally becomes more expensive to replace and service.

Shit when you sign a deal for exclusive chassis rights from a manufacture across the Atlantic you can add in frieght charges as well. Then there are delay's as a result of production. Gee how to get around that??? Buy extra but now you have to stock it - who stocks it??? OEM? Third party? Does the Speedway stock it? Do you need a purchasing planner or do you rely on some shmo who has now clue on the urgency required when 6 cars peg the wall in Mid May and you need replacement parts the next day.

Either way you're paying more. Let the teams pick - deal with parts and storage on their own. They can shop for whatever package suits their budget. If they have to ebay a 2001 Lola and Cosi to get to Indy for trials then so be it.

#1079 shaggy

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 00:52

Originally posted by MPea3


Tax court is the one place in the US where you enter needing to prove your innocence. The government seems much less concerned about one's rights when their money is at stake.

So ?
Why should the rest of us work everyday, and pay all our taxes, just so that some can cheat the government out of hundreds of billions of dollars every year ? I have to pay my complete share ..... everyone else should too.

shaggy

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#1080 jonpollak

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:28

"There's a lot of junk out there today. If you want it straight, read Kirby. -- Paul Newman "

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Jp

#1081 Der Pate

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 12:50

I couldn´t find that...

Does anybody have a schedule of the Indycar-Series 2009 with the beginning-times converted to my time (Vienna/Berlin)...???

#1082 EVL29

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 14:16

Originally posted by jonpollak
"There's a lot of junk out there today. If you want it straight, read Kirby. -- Paul Newman "

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Jp



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#1083 aportinga

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 16:19

She disturbs me - looks like a 15 year old.

AP

#1084 Keir

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 16:21

Time for a visit to the eye doctor or the psychologist. You pick.

#1085 EVL29

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 20:05

Oh the irony!



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#1086 aportinga

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 20:56

Honda's logic for being in the IRL revealed!

http://dreams.honda.com/#/feature_fa

#1087 ensign14

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 21:47

They seem to have airbrushed her tramp stamp.

#1088 metz

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 22:01

Yuppp.
If failure is good, constant failure must be even better. :cool:

#1089 HaydenFan

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 17:04

Seems Doornbos will most likely not be driving with Newman Haas Lanigan Racing in 2009 as the whole story was nothing more than another false statement by Robin Miller.

RM: My information about Bobby D's sponsorship is incorrect, as I will share a letter I received this week.

“Dear Robin, can I clarify that your assertion in the below speedtv article that Robert Doornbos is bring ING sponsorship money with him to the US is entirely incorrect in all aspects. We are not entering IRL, and we do not sponsor Robert Doornbos. Our work with Robert was limited to driver appearances during the Bavaria City race held in Rotterdam in 2007 and 2008. I would be very grateful is you could remove this inaccuracy from the article.

Jon Tracey Director, Press & PR ING Formula 1 Programme.”




http://auto-racing.s...-february-11th/

#1090 blackhand2010

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 17:13

Originally posted by HaydenFan
Seems Doornbos will most likely not be driving with Newman Haas Lanigan Racing in 2009 as the whole story was nothing more than another false statement by Robin Miller.




http://auto-racing.s...-february-11th/


I thought it was fairly suspect anyway.
Why would ING, a financial institution who have taken a fair hammering recently (due to lose 7% of its workforce), want to shell out a few million a year to sponsor a car in a little watched, regional championship?
And no, it isn't a dig at the IRL per se .
The statement would have still held up had this been in Champcar, if it still existed.

#1091 HaydenFan

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 17:20

Originally posted by blackhand2010


I thought it was fairly suspect anyway.


Agreed. Especially when he only appeared with ING as a sponsor once he started doing demonstrations with Renault.

The statement would have still held up had this been in Champcar, if it still existed.


Agreed on the part that ING is a company in trouble. Doornbos did have the Dutch round of the Champ Car World Series that was his main support. But if Champ Car was not sold off at discount price, would Robert have even worked with ING and Renault? Most likely not.

And you look at Robert's other sponsors, even Red Bull, would they support him in the US without a race in Holland? No. Red Bull still has a bad taste in their mouth from working with Cheever, and they have Nascar for their US racing efforts. And the rest of the sponsors are based in the Netherlands and I do not know what most do, but I suspect they mostly operate within the Netherlands as well.

#1092 red stick

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 19:30

Originally posted by HaydenFan
. . . as the whole story was nothing more than another false statement by Robin Miller.


Seems a little harsh. It's not that Miller is given to falsehoods; it's that he's so anxious to be first and prove he's the best connected journalist in IndyCar that waiting for confirmation seems beyond his current capabilities. I enjoy reading him, but here's the price you sometimes pay for being the know-it-all.

#1093 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 01:35

Originally posted by aportinga
Honda's logic for being in the IRL revealed!

http://dreams.honda.com/#/feature_fa


what a load of shite. explains their recent presence in f1 as well.

CC

#1094 HaydenFan

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 02:16

Originally posted by red stick


Seems a little harsh. It's not that Miller is given to falsehoods; it's that he's so anxious to be first and prove he's the best connected journalist in IndyCar that waiting for confirmation seems beyond his current capabilities. I enjoy reading him, but here's the price you sometimes pay for being the know-it-all.

But he's not. Most of the stuff he writes seems like he pulled it out of his butt. Much has little support, and is always blown out of proportion.

#1095 aportinga

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 13:22

Originally posted by HaydenFan
Seems Doornbos will most likely not be driving with Newman Haas Lanigan Racing in 2009 as the whole story was nothing more than another false statement by Robin Miller.




http://auto-racing.s...-february-11th/


Most people do not understand that RM is so out of the loop - for a multitude of reasons but based mostly on the league keeping tight quarters and a disdain for RM's works in the past.

Most of the shit - like this, like Audi and Alfa are just that - garbage tossed out there to see what sticks.

#1096 mapguy

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 02:01

Thank god for Tony George. He really fixed what was wrong in 1995.


Wait a minute...

#1097 Slyder

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 05:49

Originally posted by HaydenFan
Seems Doornbos will most likely not be driving with Newman Haas Lanigan Racing in 2009 as the whole story was nothing more than another false statement by Robin Miller.




http://auto-racing.s...-february-11th/


It isn't Miller's fault that ING is on such bad shape that they had to pull their funding away from Doornos. Just like Takuma Sato's big Honda money evaporated as soom as the company hit the skids.

#1098 Slyder

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 05:54

Originally posted by aportinga


Most people do not understand that RM is so out of the loop - for a multitude of reasons but based mostly on the league keeping tight quarters and a disdain for RM's works in the past.

Most of the shit - like this, like Audi and Alfa are just that - garbage tossed out there to see what sticks.


Oh please enlighten us apart from getting a couple of stories wrong where has Robin Miller just spewed off bullshit to see what it can stick...

#1099 wide-front-wing

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 05:54

Originally posted by aportinga


Most people do not understand that RM is so out of the loop - for a multitude of reasons but based mostly on the league keeping tight quarters and a disdain for RM's works in the past.

Most of the shit - like this, like Audi and Alfa are just that - garbage tossed out there to see what sticks.


I don't even understand why Miller has a job - he comes across as a nice guy on camera but his writing is horrible, just horrible...

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#1100 Option1

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 11:40

Originally posted by Slyder


Oh please enlighten us apart from getting a couple of stories wrong where has Robin Miller just spewed off bullshit to see what it can stick...

I'd also add that Miller, unlike some of the lemming journos, at least has the decency to admit when he's wrong.

Neil