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#101 red stick

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 19:15

More insight from Robin Miller:

http://auto-racing.s...the-crisis//P1/



MILLER: Riding the Crisis
Written by: Robin Miller
Date: 11/20/2008 - 10:30 AM
Location: Indianapolis, Ind.

Tony George won’t want to read this but he needs to.

It’s still five months before the IndyCar season opener but his series has more obstacles, dangerous terrain and bumpy roads than this week’s Baja 1000. And hopefully the Indy Racing League founder recognized the car owners’ meeting he sat in a couple weeks ago at Las Vegas wasn’t a ##### session as much as it was a universal cry for help.

The IndyCar paddock is in big trouble and it needs an immediate infusion of cash, common sense and corporate cooperation.

Think not? Ethanol is out as the sponsor for Rahal Letterman and, even though Bobby Rahal is searching for a replacement, driver Ryan Hunter-Reay has been told to find work if he can find any.

Newman/Haas/Lanigan, the core of CART/Champ Car and a two-car attack for the past 20 years, only has McDonald’s on board for Graham Rahal and a second car looks like a longshot as Justin Wilson was also told to fend for himself.

KV Racing has not been able to offer Will Power or Oriol Servia a contract because its future is unsure, at best.

That’s four front-running cars and four #### good drivers outside looking in. Marty Roth isn’t a loss but his two cars certainly are and little guys like Dreyer & Reinbold, Conquest and Keith Wiggins are always scrambling to stay on the grid. Sure, Greg Beck is coming in with one car and it looks like Jim Freudenberg is putting a deal together with Pacific Coast for one car. And it’s only November, so a lot can still happen for those other teams but let’s get realistic.

There’s very little money out there for racing (ask NASCAR), the potential title sponsors appear to have retreated and the current IRL budgets can’t begin to be justified by IndyCar television ratings.

It may not be Def Con 5, but it’s not far off and some things must happen to try and ensure the car count and depth of competition doesn’t drop to embarrassing levels. It’s going to take some concessions from Dallara and Honda, as well as some help from George and a rethink on policies and schedules by the IndyCar brass.

Here are some ideas, In no particular order:

CARS: Dallara is the only game in town and its price list reflects its greed. Since it’s already been deemed the “only chassis” for the new design in 2011, the Italian manufacturer needs to act like a partner instead of a bandit. There needs to be a 30 to 50 percent price reduction in parts – across the board. Starting immediately. If Dallara balks at that suggestion, then the IRL can create a competitive environment between vendors and suppliers. It might surprise you what kind of deals can be had when you’re the only show in town.

ENGINES: Honda has been the IRL’s savior in so many ways the past few years, powering all the cars with excellent reliability, sponsoring races and marketing the series in newspapers and on television. And while the estimated $1.3 million for its engine lease is certainly reasonable in a normal economy, these are abnormal times and that price needs to drop to $750,000. Honda claims it doesn’t make money on IndyCar, but it also doesn’t spend much on development for a detuned engine.

TIRES: Firestone has been another good partner, on and off the track, but maybe there’s a way to get an overall price reduction until the economy turns around.

DEVELOPMENT: Freeze it. Only one wheelbase is necessary, mandate more spec parts and what the Big 3 have now is all anybody can have. Let the smaller/newer teams figure it out without slipping into a deeper hole.

TESTING: One league test for everyone in pre-season to work out the bugs and provide a media day. Then have one more all-skate at mid-season. That’s it. No private testing. At $100 a mile, it adds up quickly.

MAY: Cut back the schedule to a week of practice and two days of qualifying. The IRL did it in the late ‘90s when things were lean and this is another big cost saver.

PURSES: They must increase dramatically and pay more than five spots.

That last item is George’s territory, because his TEAM plan last year put money ($1.2 million per car) in the owners’ pocket and took it out of the purses.

Now, it’s hard to say how much money T. George has spent on teams, engines, purses and races since 1996, and he’s adamant about stopping his welfare program. That’s understandable but just not practical right now, because either the TEAM money or purse (or both) must go up in 2009. If each car got $2 million up front plus those reductions from Dallara and Honda, an owner might only have to find a couple million to run the season.

Which is a helluva lot closer to reality than the $6-8 million drivers and owners have been trying to find.

Things should get better when Audi and possibly Porsche join up in 2011, but getting through the next two years figures to be a rough ride. That’s why it’s imperative George and his partners come to the rescue.

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#102 billm99uk

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 20:53

Originally posted by red stick

The IndyCar paddock is in big trouble and it needs an immediate infusion of cash...


Yeah, get in line for some of that corporate bailout money from the US government.

After all, if Ford and GM can get billions, why not Tony George :rolleyes:

#103 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 23:55

Thanks for posting that article :clap:

#104 jonpollak

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 06:00

I would love to SeaBass in the 3 car if he loses that STR ride
Good call red stick :up:
Jp

#105 27GV

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 11:17

http://uk.youtube.co...feature=related

the good old days :clap: :cry:

#106 TwoCents

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 13:35

Originally posted by red stick
I haven't seen any A1GP races. How's Marco doing?


Interview with Marco after his first A1 race in China a few weeks ago and learning a new car:

"It's brilliant. The only unfortunate thing about it is that people are watching. It's not like it's a closed test where I can just drive round and round to get used to it. The physical side of it is awesome, learning in a car that isn't working so well is awesome because it all helps you to learn, and the competition is unbelievable.

"But it's crunch time for me, I need to win some races soon and I'm going to get to the point where I need this thing to start working for me. It's the same in the states, I've had a lot of bad luck in the last couple of years and when that comes back around to my side, and we get some consistency, we're going to be there."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/72207

#107 aportinga

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 14:32

The stopping princess turned around and demanded payment for her time and services in the A1 bid. AGR told her to consider it road race training :rolleyes:

I hope Mutoh finishes higher in the points then her in 2009 :lol:

#108 red stick

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 14:47

Stopping princess? I don't follow. Did you mean "stomping," as in Danica "angrily stomping down the pitlane to see/visit/berate Briscoe/Duno/Wheldon?" Or are you referring to her recurring issues getting in and out of the pits?

What's interesting to me about the whole "I'll go to A1GP, but it's going to cost you" episode is that Miller has been one of Patrick's staunchest defenders. The tone of his reporting makes me wonder if he's rethinking his position. It certainly sounds like AGR is.

#109 aportinga

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 15:49

Originally posted by red stick
Stopping princess? I don't follow. Did you mean "stomping," as in Danica "angrily stomping down the pitlane to see/visit/berate Briscoe/Duno/Wheldon?" Or are you referring to her recurring issues getting in and out of the pits?

What's interesting to me about the whole "I'll go to A1GP, but it's going to cost you" episode is that Miller has been one of Patrick's staunchest defenders. The tone of his reporting makes me wonder if he's rethinking his position. It certainly sounds like AGR is.


Yeah - again with the mis-spelling. I am retarded!

#110 red stick

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 15:56

:D

#111 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 16:23

Originally posted by red stick
Stopping princess? I don't follow. Did you mean "stomping," as in Danica "angrily stomping down the pitlane to see/visit/berate Briscoe/Duno/Wheldon?" Or are you referring to her recurring issues getting in and out of the pits?

What's interesting to me about the whole "I'll go to A1GP, but it's going to cost you" episode is that Miller has been one of Patrick's staunchest defenders. The tone of his reporting makes me wonder if he's rethinking his position. It certainly sounds like AGR is.


You gotta a link to that? I love reading about Danica being a bitch.

:love:

CC

#112 Keir

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 16:43

Was Marco paid ??? For his ..... Time ????

Back to Miller's article about the soon to collapse IndyCar Series, Newman/Haas/Etc,Etc,Etc may have been at the core of CART/ChampCar World Festival but the IRL ???????
Holy "Where have you been Robin?", Batman !!!

Just another scribe validating his/her existence hanging crape in the firehouse !!

I guess that George and all the owners are just a bunch of dopes who don't know what to do ??
Maybe Robin can be the new dope and set things right ??

Porsche and Audi are certainly not going to go along with spec engines sold at the cheap.
Chassis manufacturers have to have an unside. It's called sales !!!

It's going to continue to be a bumpy road for autoracing in general and this too will pass.

..... but not without the naysayers blaming all and sundry and coming out with the newly found secrets of profit without cost that strangely have eluded the very people that made a living at doing so !!!

The constant barrage of "If I were in charge", "If I ran the IndyCar Series", If I was King of the World."
Displaying every day exactly why they are not those people !

#113 red stick

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 16:46

Originally posted by Crazy Canuck
You gotta a link to that? I love reading about Danica being a bitch.


It was in Robin Miller's weekly mailbag on Speed.

http://auto-racing.s...or-november-18/


And for what it's worth, Keir, I linked to Miller's column because he's a passionate fan and one of the few sources of information in the offseason, not because I endorse his point of view. As our own attempts in this forum to link drivers to teams reveals, there are currently a lot of holes in the lineup, and Miller sheds some light on the issue.

#114 Keir

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 21:13

Miller is a fan.

But enough with the gloom and doom, it's really getting tedious.

Does the guy read the papers or watch TV ??

The world is in an ecomomic crisis of epic proportions and we are fans of a sport that spends money like it's printed down the basement !!

Gee wiz, the IndyCar Series can't get a title sponsor ?? Surprising ?? Nooooooooooooooooo !

What does autoracing offer a non auto related retailer ? A tiny bit of exposure on TV or a magazine article.
Which the various retailers have done anyway. Not many people buy Tide because it's on the side of a NASCAR stocker.

When the economy picks back up, so will the seats available to drivers like Justin Wilson, Sarah Fisher, Paul Tracy, et al.

And the ethanol thing ?? Have you seen the price of gas lately ?? Ethanol costs more to make.
When gas was headed to $5 a gallon, it was "Save the Planet" time. Now, we're just under $2 a gallon and it's back to the old, "We'll be long dead before the Earth goes" !

In tribute to one feisty female, Danica Patrick, I give you Betty Davis, whose character in "All About Eve" once said, "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night." In autoracing's case, YEAR !!!

#115 aportinga

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 22:00

Originally posted by Keir
Miller is a fan.

But enough with the gloom and doom, it's really getting tedious.

Does the guy read the papers or watch TV ??


The guy has kept his mouth shut for the entire season - give me a break! He's entitled to an opinion and as the ONLY individual in the press even covering the IRL he calls for more value to his opinion then yours. Furthermore the article is no where near as scathing as RM was in the past. He's not targeting only making suggestions which clearly leads me to believe that he takes in consideration the transition process and economy.

And what the hell press/papers are you reading??? Not even NSSN gives a rats ass anymore.

Anything negative on the IRL and it's down the tubes for you.

Get on some meds or shut the hell up already.

#116 red stick

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 23:31

Road House was on again a few nights ago. Remember the rules of bouncing?

1. Never underestimate your opponent.
2. Take it outside.
3. Be nice.

Don't know what made me think of that.

#117 Keir

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 23:59

Speaking of bad movies !!

National Speed Sport News was around before Robin Miller knew how to write without crayons.

His suggestions, while noble, are as useful as an aportinga comment.

Meds ?? My suggestion for aportinga rants; Take one aportinga, flush twice !!

#118 B Squared

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 00:06

"What does autoracing offer a non auto related retailer ? A tiny bit of exposure on TV or a magazine article."

Interesting timing.

http://www.indystar....0/1052/SPORTS01

Brian

#119 MonzaOne

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 00:10

The question over Castroneves is whether Marlboro or Penske want this sort of publicity. First of all in this sort of case, the government rarely proceeds unless they really have a strong case. Secondly, I think Castroneves should do the right thing and offer to resign, only to return upon being found innoccent.

In the US the IRL is mostly going ot be shown on the "Versus" channel - whatever in God's name that might be, so viewership is going to fall further. Openwheel or singleseater racing is going to die in the US and with the financial crisis the low viewership IRL is definitely not going to be a favored place for adspend.

Even NASCAR is in crisis sponsorship wise.

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#120 Keir

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 00:23

B squared,

Point well taken.

The real question is how much did Target give to Ganassi and how can one really tell if people are going to Target as a direct result of seeing the name on a race car.

Exposure ?? Yes. Value ????????????

#121 MonzaOne

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 00:39

Originally posted by Crazy Canuck


You gotta a link to that? I love reading about Danica being a bitch.

:love:

CC


I think she is being assertive. She was also the highest placed American driver in the IRL this season.

She also has to put up with men that see a female as "the little woman". She is small and petite but her stature is far bigger.

Go Danica!

#122 red stick

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 01:47

Originally posted by MonzaOne
I think she is being assertive. She was also the highest placed American driver in the IRL this season.

She also has to put up with men that see a female as "the little woman". She is small and petite but her stature is far bigger.

Go Danica!



I like her too. I think when she does well it's good for the sport, given the attention she attracts, sometimes for the wrong reason. With Helio's current difficulties and likely absence for at least part of this season, she's going to be about the only "name" the non-fan recognizes. That said, let's not go overboard.

She WAS the highest placed American driver last year. At the same time, since Hornish's self-imposed exile to NASCAR, she was the ONLY American driver on the top three teams. And many weekends she didn't look that racy. On road and street courses she frequently looked lost. On ovals she spent a fair part of the year complaining about understeer and mistiming restarts.

I don't have a problem with her being assertive. But when you came up on road courses, appear to have lost your way, and your employer suggests a way to get you more seat time against some pretty fair competition, I think I 'd find a way to accommodate him. The better she does, the better off she's going to be years down the road. You want to win more races? Contend for championships? Improve your stature within your sport? Then you'd better find a way to improve your skills on the tracks that make up about two-thirds of the schedule. NASCAR probably isn't going to be beating down her door if she doesn't improve her racecraft. And I really don't think she's going to get a better ride in IndyCar than the one she has now.

#123 red stick

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 01:48

Oh yeah, go Danica!  ;)

#124 MonzaOne

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 02:44

Originally posted by red stick



I like her too. I think when she does well it's good for the sport, given the attention she attracts, sometimes for the wrong reason. With Helio's current difficulties and likely absence for at least part of this season, she's going to be about the only "name" the non-fan recognizes. That said, let's not go overboard.

She WAS the highest placed American driver last year. At the same time, since Hornish's self-imposed exile to NASCAR, she was the ONLY American driver on the top three teams. And many weekends she didn't look that racy. On road and street courses she frequently looked lost. On ovals she spent a fair part of the year complaining about understeer and mistiming restarts.

I don't have a problem with her being assertive. But when you came up on road courses, appear to have lost your way, and your employer suggests a way to get you more seat time against some pretty fair competition, I think I 'd find a way to accommodate him. The better she does, the better off she's going to be years down the road. You want to win more races? Contend for championships? Improve your stature within your sport? Then you'd better find a way to improve your skills on the tracks that make up about two-thirds of the schedule. NASCAR probably isn't going to be beating down her door if she doesn't improve her racecraft. And I really don't think she's going to get a better ride in IndyCar than the one she has now.


Michael Andretti is not the best manager of drivers and Danica does suffer fits of pique. It is the task of the team manager to know the personalities of the drivers.

We have no idea how Andretti approached the issue and in what context the answer was given. A better place to gain road course skills would be the ALMS series.

Complaining of understeer is not a bad thing because it means she wants a more sensitive car - given her position in the team as effectively only second to Kanaan and the poor performances of Marco, paying attanetion to her comments is important.

Andretti Green constantkly gives the impression of not being a team attuned to the drivers' requirements in the same way that say Penske is.

We shall see.

As for NASCAR - perish the thought. Why WOULD she even want to drive one of those overweight fast taxicab tintops is the question.

I say would it not be superb to have those A1 American designed and Ferrari engined cars adapted for a predominantly road and street circuit IRL series? There are so many wonderful circuits in the US.

#125 pingu666

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 05:00

monzaone, thats what IRL will eventually evolve too

AGR seemed to miss dario i think

#126 red stick

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 05:16

And Herta.

#127 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 07:42

Originally posted by MonzaOne
As for NASCAR - perish the thought. Why WOULD she even want to drive one of those overweight fast taxicab tintops is the question.


Surely if the current pay-packet is $5 million per season (less/more???) to race in one race that people actually watch then as a high profile NASCAR where all the races have an actual television audience, then a packet of $15+ million should be possible?

#128 MonzaOne

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 11:18

And at this stage Penske ought to replace Castroneves with Justin Wilson.

#129 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 11:49

When HCN's problems started I did wonder if NHL would go to one car, but keep Wilson knowing Graham Rahal would have some good resale value to someone like Penske. I reckon Bobby Rahal may have had the same thoughts with Ryan Hunter-Reay.

#130 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 11:58

Originally posted by MonzaOne
And at this stage Penske ought to replace Castroneves with Justin Wilson.

:clap:

#131 red stick

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 12:40

Originally posted by MonzaOne
Complaining of understeer is not a bad thing because it means she wants a more sensitive car - given her position in the team as effectively only second to Kanaan and the poor performances of Marco, paying attention to her comments is important.


I don't begrudge her a car set up to her liking. In TV broadcasts last year she was a focus of coverage related to her conversations with the pit. On ovals she spent a lot of time, especially in the latter half of the schedule, complaining about understeer. Now anyone can have a bad weekend where you just miss the setup and spend the day chasing the car, but the frequency of the complaints suggested to me that she either missed the setup, arguably a team problem (although her teammates didn't seem to have the same problem), or she had trouble indicating to her crew what changes she needed/wanted. Either way she was no threat to run up front, let alone win.

As we've noted elsewhere, including the IndyCar forums last year, AGR clearly misses Franchitti's and Herta's experience at testing and car setup. But "working the car" so it improves during the race is vital to finishing well, and Danica appears to need some work in that area.


As for NASCAR - perish the thought. Why WOULD she even want to drive one of those overweight fast taxicab tintops is the question.


I don't know that she wants to go to NASCAR, given the recent experiences of open-wheelers there. I was just trying to figure out what she's thinking. She (and if you can believe the media, particularly her father) made a run at NASCAR the last time she negotiated a contract. If, as Miller says, this is the last year of her current deal, I wouldn't be surprised to see NASCAR come up again, if only as a negotiating ploy.



As I said, I like her, and wish her well. It can't be easy being on a team competing with the boss's son. It appears from the outside that dealing with Marco, and Michael's attitude towards him, cost the team Franchitti and nearly Kanaan. But if Miller's reporting is correct, when she had a chance to improve herself, she declined, and Marco's gaining the benefit. That can't be good for her.

#132 B Squared

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 12:48

" On ovals she spent a fair part of the year complaining about understeer and mistiming restarts." red stick

I think that you could say she's spent a fair part of her CAREER complaining about understeer and mistiming restarts. She seems to have huge problems on cold tires.

Brian

#133 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 15:55

Originally posted by B Squared
" On ovals she spent a fair part of the year complaining about understeer and mistiming restarts." red stick

I think that you could say she's spent a fair part of her CAREER complaining about understeer and mistiming restarts. She seems to have huge problems on cold tires.

Brian


She's had good cars and good engineers her entire career and has acomplished one (1) win.
She will never be a championship contender.
She will not have her contract renewed.
She has earned a reputation of being somewhat 'prickly'
Here's a question for all you fantasy team managers:
If you had a choice between Justin Wilson and Danica Patrick with no factors other than racecraft affecting your decision, who would you hire?

Personally, I could name 3-4 drivers that are sitting right now that would give an AGR car a better shot than what she can give it.

#134 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 16:03

Unfortunately racecraft isn't the deciding factor. She'll get her contract renewed because she makes money for the team.

#135 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 17:02

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Unfortunately racecraft isn't the deciding factor. She'll get her contract renewed because she makes money for the team.

QFT :(

#136 red stick

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 18:47

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Unfortunately racecraft isn't the deciding factor. She'll get her contract renewed because she makes money for the team.


Which in this financial climate, or even in flush times, is not inconsequential. But let's not go overboard the other way either--she did finish sixth in the standings, behind only Dixon, HCN, Kanaan, Wheldon, and Briscoe, and ahead of her other two teammates and RHR. That's pretty heady company.

My concern is that, while Briscoe, for example, improved markedly over the course of the season (I don't think anybody holds their breath anymore waiting for brain fade from him), and RHR also seemed to gain steam towards the end, I didn't get the sense after her win that, for whatever reason, she was any threat to score a second. Now, unlike her teammate, the Crown Prince, she at least drives through her difficulties; I can't remember a time where she parked a car due to "handling," but it's a competitive series, the Champ Car teams are only going to get better, and I'd like to see her working hard to improve her skills. Marco is.

#137 red stick

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 18:55

Originally posted by red stick
she was the ONLY American driver on the top three teams.


EDIT: The Andrettis have been in the country a while now, haven't they. :blush:

#138 stevewf1

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 19:19

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Unfortunately racecraft isn't the deciding factor. She'll get her contract renewed because she makes money for the team.


Yes. The IRL has been desperate for positive PR for years and years and years now and she provides it. They're not going to let her go - not without a fight, anyway.

#139 MonzaOne

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 23:35

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


She's had good cars and good engineers her entire career and has acomplished one (1) win.
She will never be a championship contender.
She will not have her contract renewed.
She has earned a reputation of being somewhat 'prickly'
Here's a question for all you fantasy team managers:
If you had a choice between Justin Wilson and Danica Patrick with no factors other than racecraft affecting your decision, who would you hire?

Personally, I could name 3-4 drivers that are sitting right now that would give an AGR car a better shot than what she can give it.


I would not recommend anyone joining AGR especially Wilson. He is just to good for that team. And of course he would have to deal with Michaels awful child Marco who has a government type job for the remainder of his racing career - no matter what he does is fine.

Remembering Mario, seeing the baby that Michael has always been then viewing the mollycoddling that Marco has makes anyone wince. And the ability has been similarly diluted though the generations.

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#140 Dolph

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 00:20

Originally posted by aportinga
PT is done with OW - in America at least.


What kind of series would take Tracy that he would want to join outside the US?

#141 red stick

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 00:46

Next stop for PT may be the 24 Hours of Daytona.

http://www.thestar.com/article/538203

Unfortunately he seems destined for the time being to wander from ride to ride.

#142 MonzaOne

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 04:09

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks


Surely if the current pay-packet is $5 million per season (less/more???) to race in one race that people actually watch then as a high profile NASCAR where all the races have an actual television audience, then a packet of $15+ million should be possible?


Yes. But if I were a driver NASCAR would just be the lowest series on my list. How Montoya cannot feel frustrated after f1 is beyond me.

BTW, I liked Eddie Jordans teams too - from his f3 days through f1.

#143 pingu666

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 04:53

i think nascar is probably much more fun to do than to watch, while f1 is lower down in comparison.
nascar also looks pretty damn epic in HD :)

i think sportscars is more intense than f1 too, in terms of racing

#144 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 05:15

Originally posted by MonzaOne


I would not recommend anyone joining AGR especially Wilson. He is just to good for that team. And of course he would have to deal with Michaels awful child Marco who has a government type job for the remainder of his racing career - no matter what he does is fine.


Good thing the Danica buzz gets Marco funding, eh?
It's actually sad that the Andretti name is associated with that team, it's a blot on Mario's stupendous career IMO.
As for your distaste for NASCAR, that's in comprehensible. If you like oval racing, NASCAR has about 5 times the depth of field of the irl, in a class of cars far more difficult to drive that a Dallara with barn doors attached to it and a spec engine hung off the back.

#145 pingu666

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 05:31

AGR is pretty successful, and a few years back was *the* team

nascar takes longer to get into, its more complex in some ways. that said i still prefer IRL for oval racing. dunno why :lol:

#146 red stick

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 05:58

Originally posted by MonzaOne
Yes. But if I were a driver NASCAR would just be the lowest series on my list. How Montoya cannot feel frustrated after f1 is beyond me.


I'll take a shot at that.

1. You get to race almost every weekend.

2. The other drivers talk to you.

3. He has his own pit, which he shares with nobody.

4. No stop light at the end of the pit lane.

5. Chip Ganassi likes him. Ron Dennis and Frank Williams . . . ?

6. When he has the mad desire to hit another car, he can. Hell, it's expected.

7. Jeff Gordon respects him. Michael Schumacher . . . ?

8. He passed more cars in his first two races than he had in his entire F1 career.

#147 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 06:06

Originally posted by red stick


I'll take a shot at that.

1. You get to race almost every weekend.

2. The other drivers talk to you.

3. He has his own pit, which he shares with nobody.

4. When he has the mad desire to hit another car, he can.

5. He passed more cars in his first two races than he had in his entire F1 career.


9. He has a shot at winning three of the most impressive races in the world, Indy, Monaco and Daytona.

#148 red stick

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 06:10

Sorry, I re-edited. But we're one away from a Top Ten!

#149 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 07:22

Originally posted by MonzaOne


Yes. But if I were a driver NASCAR would just be the lowest series on my list. How Montoya cannot feel frustrated after f1 is beyond me.


Well, that's because you're not a driver.

#150 Bob Riebe

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 07:26

Originally posted by stevewf1


Yes. The IRL has been desperate for positive PR for years and years and years now and she provides it. They're not going to let her go - not without a fight, anyway.

LOL-- it is not positive PR it is PR period she gets, and the more hissy-fit the PR, the more the get.