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IndyCar 2009 (merged)


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#1451 rghojai

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 23:04

Here we go again. Again. About like the Hamilton vs. Alonso fanboi flamewars two years ago--and at least that was as things were unfolding.

Nobody with enough brains to get dressed in the morning is gonna sing TG's praises or look back at the CART crowd as real men of genius.

Sure, given the opportunity, I'd be tempted to hit TG in the face with a pie, but it is pointless at times to a point of embarrassment when people keep going on ad nauseum or react to news with, "TG sucks."

It's simply childish.

Maybe I don't have the brains to get dressed in the morning, because I cling to a probably silly hope that one day people might actually STFU.

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#1452 shaggy

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 23:33

Originally posted by red stick
I can appreciate the rancor over the series--it's at least heartfelt. I don't agree with some poster's conclusions, but I appreciate where they are coming from, by and large.


The migration to ALMS as a supposedly superior form of racing escapes me. Here's the entry list for Long Beach.

http://www.americanl...eachEntries.pdf

Now I like ALMS and have enjoyed the races I've attended. I enjoyed watching the last several hours of Sebring this year. But 20 cars? GT1 is a joke, and has been, and the Acura-Lola duels in P1 and P2 are decidedly one-sided and will make for a long year. Here's another series where if Honda followed Audi and Peugeot and ignored most of the races, it would be nowhere. This series too, in the current economy, appears to be living on memories. If you missed Sebring this year, which race are you dying to attend?

ALMS may not be superior, but the racing is better than Indy's.
Besides .... if you watch Indy ... how can you point the finger at ANY other racing series ?????????

I continued watching CART, and then CC, b/c I love road racing and out of loyalty ... towards the end, loyalty was just about the only reason :( But, I have no loyalty for the IRL, so why not follow another series ? Well, I do.

The problem with Ross/ColdHeart/917 etc, etc is that, even though they pretend to be "better" than the rest of us, the reality is that they are not "real fans." If they were, they'd care. At least Defender, and other TF loyalists, had the guts to admit failure and "quit."

Now, let's be honest, all these people were the same one who would go into every CC thread and call for its demise, and then taunt every CC fan they could find. Now, they come here and ask for people to put the past behind, etc. :rolleyes:

#1453 shaggy

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 23:38

Originally posted by Buford


quote:
"Kind of fun though to see Indy slowly self-destruct"

Yeah it is. I told these fools in 1996 and every year since they were lemming like following a drug burnout over the cliff and destroying out sport. Their task is almost done. Damn right bitter. Piss on them.

Indy will survive, but I really want TG to eat crow.
Besides, he was the one who brought this disgrace upon Indy.

#1454 Buford

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:29

Originally posted by shaggy


Now, let's be honest, all these people were the same one who would go into every CC thread and call for its demise, and then taunt every CC fan they could find. Now, they come here and ask for people to put the past behind, etc. :rolleyes:


Very very good point. Hypocritical ****s. The fact they were dead wrong about everything since 1996 and supported a con game and blasted everybody who didn't suck at the tit of 16th and Georgetown doctrine is best covered up by now claiming anybody who calls them on their hypocrisy and stupidity is "wallowing in the past." You bastards wrecked our sport. You get no pass here for being ignoramuses.

#1455 red stick

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:44

Originally posted by shaggy

ALMS may not be superior, but the racing is better than Indy's.
Besides .... if you watch Indy ... how can you point the finger at ANY other racing series ?????????


Well, the way I did it. You know, identifying the problem and giving examples. ALMS has had some great years, but this year it appears it will be a GT2 race with several faster cars strewn about. To answer by essentially agreeing, then questioning whether one who watches IndyCar is permitted an opinion is, as you must know, weak.

#1456 red stick

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:52

Originally posted by shaggy
Now, let's be honest, all these people were the same one who would go into every CC thread and call for its demise, and then taunt every CC fan they could find. Now, they come here and ask for people to put the past behind, etc. :rolleyes:


Wasn't there; can't really speak to it.

Do you guys have an endgame? Because we know how the Montague/Capulet approach ends. And the original had better writing. :smoking:

#1457 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:02

Originally posted by red stick
Do you guys have an endgame?


Nope, don't need one.
FTG is doing a bang up job of ending it all on his own.
:p

#1458 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 05:40

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


Enjoy your bad series, Ross, FTG and the irl depends on your sheep like devotion and tossing history on the scrap heap.



How is it sheep like devotion? I know how ****ed up it is, in fact I know better than anyone else on this thread. But I'm not going to let it or blowhard diehards like Buford chase me away from it. I'm made of slightly sterner stuff. Shit Indycar racing is still better than swallowing the NASCAR pill in full.

I think the deluded ones are the people who refuse to allow any enjoyment from open wheel racing and convince themselves things like the ALMS is better. Jesus what a non-series that has become.

#1459 John Morrison

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 07:57

The bitter so-call ex-open wheel fans are officially the neo-nazis of race fans with their "like Indycar, well f- you and we will make you a living hell for liking Indycar" with their bullying, intimidation, and hate toward anyone who at least say anything positive about Indycar. Be jealous!

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#1460 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 07:59

Though to be fair to them, at least they aren't trying to convince us Jacques Lazier is a great talent lost to history.

#1461 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 13:19

People who slag people off for watching other series......


why?


I'm allowed to watch what I want, their as bad as those boring ***** who come onto threads in a gorilla fashion with their 'ooh oval racing, left left left left, it's boring', well fine it's your opinion, but off are you stopping me from watching it.

I didn't follow USOW until the final year of the split, so I had no idea of the history, but I watch it to watch racing not to pre judge it on previous arguments. I don't like Tony George but he's in charge so I hope it survives and goes from strength to strength.

No matter what I think of the owners, my favourite driver is in the IRL so you've got as much chance of getting me to support Kettering f*cking Town (RDFC 1 Kettrin **** 0, take that you bunch of moronic wankers).

It gets tiring and that goes to both sides of a quite frankly tired argument.

Of course one of you is now going very eloquently call me a pissant shit or something else as well thought out as that like , but I couldn't give two shits what you want to say. I watch IRL, get over it.

#1462 tifosi

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 13:23

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
People who slag people off for watching other series......


why?


I'm allowed to watch what I want, their as bad as those boring ***** who come onto threads in a gorilla fashion with their 'ooh oval racing, left left left left, it's boring', well fine it's your opinion, but off are you stopping me from watching it.

I didn't follow USOW until the final year of the split, so I had no idea of the history, but I watch it to watch racing not to pre judge it on previous arguments. I don't like Tony George but he's in charge so I hope it survives and goes from strength to strength.

No matter what I think of the owners, my favourite driver is in the IRL so you've got as much chance of getting me to support Kettering f*cking Town (RDFC 1 Kettrin **** 0, take that you bunch of moronic wankers).

It gets tiring and that goes to both sides of a quite frankly tired argument.

Of course one of you is now going very eloquently call me a pissant shit or something else as well thought out as that like , but I couldn't give two shits what you want to say. I watch IRL, get over it.


very well put, actually :up:

#1463 Just waiting

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 13:50

I used to be a big fan of the drivers and teams that populated "indy" racing from the 1960's until the split.

But i always recognized that for better or worse, the Indy 500 was the centerpiece for the racers.

Been there and enjoyed it.

Over the years, some great drivers, a series where JV (who was very good, but there were others as good as or better) could jump from one and sit on the pole for his first F1 race.
When the series split, most of the better teams and drivers went champ car

But I hopeed for a quick death for one series or the other.

Otherwise, the overall talent will slide downhill to crap and nascar will fill the vaccum.

That quick death did not happen, and the talent slid downhill to where the biggest star is DP (how appropriate those initials are) whose real claim to fame is top sponsorhip money, top publicity wherever she goes (news media ignored who won the last race while trumpetting a another cat-fight or near cat fight with DP), average (for the IRL!!!!) driving talents but excellent equipment and who gets naked or near naked for photo shoots.
But bottom line if it were not for the camel toes, sho would not be there. :down:

Meanwhile champ car was soon sliding right down even faster

Meanwhile, speaking of filling the vaccum, at a track that had been reserved only for open wheel racing and the 500 since 1911, NASCAR starts doing the Indy 400.....and I go to the first and only IRL race I have attended, and hear those cars and find myself thinking, that is the worst sound in racing....


Sic transist gloria

#1464 aportinga

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 14:16

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
I didn't follow USOW until the final year of the split, so I had no idea of the history.

I watch IRL, get over it.


Accounts for alot.

I could care less what you watch. If it makes you happy then great. And that is the point. We had a sport which made a shit load of people happy - now there's just 233k.

Again "EPIC FAILURE"

#1465 CWeil

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 14:24

Originally posted by Buford


Very very good point. Hypocritical ****s. The fact they were dead wrong about everything since 1996 and supported a con game and blasted everybody who didn't suck at the tit of 16th and Georgetown doctrine is best covered up by now claiming anybody who calls them on their hypocrisy and stupidity is "wallowing in the past." You bastards wrecked our sport. You get no pass here for being ignoramuses.


Do you ever actually sit down and read what you write?

Christ.

#1466 shaggy

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 16:32

Originally posted by red stick


Well, the way I did it. You know, identifying the problem and giving examples. ALMS has had some great years, but this year it appears it will be a GT2 race with several faster cars strewn about. To answer by essentially agreeing, then questioning whether one who watches IndyCar is permitted an opinion is, as you must know, weak.

By superior I meant that the IRL has Indy and gets paid for being on TV.
But ALMS and GrandAm have had more exciting, closer racing than Indy. I'd rather watch a "nobody" in close racing in ALMS than in Indy. It is two different forms of racing; so, I'd rather watch something where TG is not involved. If I want to watch OW racing (a similar form of racing to Indy), then I'll most certainly go for F1 (my first love), and to replace CC, I'll watch A1GP.

But, the point stands. Indy is a sorry sight from what it used to be. So, IRL fans are the last ones who should criticize another series. And, let's be honest, the future does not look very promising for Indy fans, either.

Btw, the "end game" is to watch TG eat crow. When that happens, I'll move on - I may even go back to Indy racing. Until then, no dice. I'll never forget what that creep did to OW racing in the US. Luckily, I do have other options, so the choice is not that difficult to make ;)

shaggy

#1467 shaggy

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 16:49

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld



How is it sheep like devotion? I know how ****ed up it is, in fact I know better than anyone else on this thread. But I'm not going to let it or blowhard diehards like Buford chase me away from it. I'm made of slightly sterner stuff. Shit Indycar racing is still better than swallowing the NASCAR pill in full.

I think the deluded ones are the people who refuse to allow any enjoyment from open wheel racing and convince themselves things like the ALMS is better. Jesus what a non-series that has become.

So, now we have to follow your lead and "enjoy" the racing you like because you are not "deluded."
I know your kind: asking Buford for help through PMs, and calling him all type of names in public. I remember that. Be real.

If I have to follow someone, I'd rather follow someone who has conviction, and personal knowledge of the history, rather than someone who is blind, follows a blind leader, and then claims to be better than the rest of us.

If you can watch Indy, a lot of us can watch Nascar, ALMS and Grand Am. At least I can talk to other people in the street about those series :wave: Today, I have to explain to people what "Indy" is .. or what it used to be. So, watch what you like, but get off the pedestal pretending to be the voice of reason ...

#1468 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 17:12

I talked to Buford years ago in PMs for some help on stuff when he wasn't frothing at the mouth. I don't agree with what he says in 2009. If he wants to go back to being sensible we'd love to have him but at the moment he's just a caricature.

I'm not following anyone. You nitwits don't get that for most people, they don't care about the split. That's why most of them wandered off to watch something else.

I watch everything, but don't get caught up in the politics which is mainly limited to keyboard warriors and unfortunately a few decision makers. Everyone else was just trying to make a living in a sport they enjoyed. The rank and file didn't care.

And give me a break, everyone's heard of Indycar. It was a mess trying to explain what CART or the IRL were. It was far easier to just call them Indycars for 10 years and sponsors were only ever interested in hearing about the 500. If those facts don't wash with your world view, I don't know what to tell you.

#1469 red stick

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 23:46

Originally posted by shaggy
So, IRL fans are the last ones who should criticize another series.


That's a little provincial, isn't it?

On any given weekend I'll watch IndyCar, F1, ALMS, or NASCAR. I've watched NASCAR since the days when it was part of ABC's Wide World of Sports, F1 since the early 90's, and sports car racing whenever and wherever it turns up on the tube. I've attended Grand-Am, ALMS, IMSA, and Trans-Am races, as well as CART, IRL, and Champ Car events.

I'm a motorsports fan. The notion that everything about motorsports should be viewed through the prism of where one stands on the Tony George issue is peculiar to certain contributors to this thread. It's wrong.

#1470 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 04:30

Originally posted by red stick

The notion that everything about motorsports should be viewed through the prism of where one stands on the Tony George issue is peculiar to certain contributors to this thread.

That's not true at all. I have reasonable discussions with you, Ross and others on all other series. When it comes to the irl, I simply stand on *my* convictions, that since day one of the irl, it was the wrong thing to do with/to USOW. Pretty simple, really.

It's wrong.
What is?
Labeling me and others that completely disagree with the management of USOW neo nazis, or to voice an opinion that is different from yours?
After 34 years of attendance at the LBGP, I'm heading to Laughlin next weekend instead. I will never support what the irl did to USOW, or indy, and therefore will not spend a dime on it. Frankly, do whatever you want, my choice has nothing to do with yours.

BTW, Ross, nice deflection, as always.
90% of my post was about how to make a bad series good again, couldn't reflect on that though, could you?
Instead we have a tangent about more knowledge than anyone else on the subject (of course) and something about NASCAR.
Sterner stuff?
No, not really.
Same stuff, actually.

#1471 Buford

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 06:05

Dumping Long Beach after 34 years so as not to put a dime in the Sperm Weasels pocket is in league with my family's dumping Indy after 37 straight years. The Lemmings for a decade have been saying "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. They have run off so many fans now they are down to less that a quarter million in the entire USA. Literally millions gone. :rotfl:

What you doing in Laughlin? Maybe we should meet up. It's been awhile since we got together.

#1472 rghojai

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:44

Speaking of same stuff... .

I believe there has about been one mention of the 34 years at Long Beach for each of those years (as an example).

It's all been said. As mentioned, if there is IRL news that reflects that the IRL is not doing well, it's something less than a revelation that it is an example of the series not doing well.

Some people actually do have enough interest in the series that they're interested in links, personal experiences--the photos, etc., from the recent test were terrific--and such. Feels unfortunate that a few are consistently compelled to once again go down the TG/CART road.

People are enjoying something, other big voices are determined to relate how bad it is... and at times trash those who do enjoy it.

Healthy.

On some level this fascinates me. Countless people in this world have been far less bitter/wound up about things of far greater consequence.

Reasonable voices--who in no way like TG, feel like The Split was a big mistake followed by countless big mistakes--simply if foolishly ask that people give it a rest.

Why is it so unthinkable that all concerned could do as much?

#1473 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:30

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII

It's wrong.
What is?
Labeling me and others that completely disagree with the management of USOW neo nazis, or to voice an opinion that is different from yours?


Nice try. Generally, the reason people put sentences together in paragraphs is to convey meaning. Taking the paragraphs apart to score points such as this is rhetorically lazy, as is using "neo-nazis," which you must know mischaracterizes my argument, but does prove the enduring applicability of Godwin's Law. My point was simply that pigeon-holing my beliefs about motorsports in general based on my non-interest in joining the FTG crowd is mistaken. Unless you follow Shaggy's reasoning, which simply put seems to be that persons who follow IndyCar have no right to critically examine other forms of motorsport.

Also mistaken is lumping in us relative newcomers to the forums with those you've been skirmishing with for decades, which I suppose is convenient from a us vs. them perspective, but fails to take into account that there is a third side to the argument, fairly reasonably stated by rghojai this morning.

#1474 B Squared

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 12:23

Gordon Kirby's column on Long Beach. Imagine that, he has the audacity to attend. I think Mr. Kirby has "more skin in the game" than any of us do. He seems to have moved on with it though. He also spends considerable time and energy researching and studying the sport and makes solid proposals on how to improve the path of the current IndyCar series. It seems rather logical to me to work at making change vs. standing on a soap box repeatedly telling the same story. I worked with CART in their prime. I loved it, I miss it, but this is what is available to us now. Nothing is forever. IndyCar will have to improve their package or they will not survive. I'd rather support what we have and work to restore it's greatness than to be on the sidelines reading about the sport in a historical narrative, never to be seen in any form again.

" I've had the pleasure of covering all thirty-four Long Beach weekends and I'm looking forward with equal pleasure to the thirty-fifth rendition." Gordon Kirby

http://www.gordonkir...t_is_no179.html

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#1475 aportinga

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 13:10

Originally posted by B Squared
Gordon Kirby's column on Long Beach. Imagine that, he has the audacity to attend. I think Mr. Kirby has "more skin in the game" than any of us do. He seems to have moved on with it though.


Wow - I never thought of it that way....

:rolleyes:

Newsflash - it's his job - of oourse he has more skin in the game. He's been single focuses on OW American racing for 20 years. What the hell else is he going to do if he gets canned?

#1476 B Squared

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 14:04

Canned? - by who?? Mr. Kirby is, and always has been an independent contractor in the motorsport journalism trade. He has always been involved in the sport for the passion and love of it. Even when with Autosport, and now with MotorSport, he is freelance. Thank goodness for him and those like him who bring the sport to our doorsteps.

Brian

#1477 aportinga

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 14:26

Quite simple - he does not pay himself does he?

When demand is down people are laid off - or not needed at all. The fact that he is freelance makes no difference.

#1478 wide-front-wing

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 14:52

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld



How is it sheep like devotion? I know how ****ed up it is, in fact I know better than anyone else on this thread. But I'm not going to let it or blowhard diehards like Buford chase me away from it. I'm made of slightly sterner stuff. Shit Indycar racing is still better than swallowing the NASCAR pill in full.

I think the deluded ones are the people who refuse to allow any enjoyment from open wheel racing and convince themselves things like the ALMS is better. Jesus what a non-series that has become.


With respect, NASCAR now completely blows away IndyCar, it's no contest. This used to bother me since I have been such a diehard OW fan for so many years, but reality is reality.

The fact is Monotya, AJ, Hornish, Speed - are all running NASCAR. That pretty much says it all.

I'd slightly agree with you about the racing in IndyCar except the street races are duller then the dullest F1 parade, duller then Monaco in perfect whether with a dominate car on the grid. To me this has nothing to do with the split and all the FTG crap - the series just plain sucks, on merit.

#1479 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 15:49

Why can't the people who don't watch IRL, refrain from posting? If you don't watch/care/like IRL...then why post? I don't get it :confused:

CC

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#1480 HaydenFan

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 16:16

Originally posted by Crazy Canuck
Why can't the people who don't watch IRL, refrain from posting? If you don't watch/care/like IRL...then why post? I don't get it :confused:

CC


Because from what I can tell, that is only like 10-12 people.

#1481 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 16:37

Power on his experiences so far with Penske. And an explanation for the St. Pete pitstop error.

http://auto-racing.s...or-team-penske/

#1482 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 16:39

Also driver columns from Franchitti, http://auto-racing.s...treet-fighting/, and Wilson. http://auto-racing.s...-dream-weekend/

Didn't know Wilson was dyslexic. Seems like the drivers get on well. "Dixie?"

#1483 rghojai

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 17:40

Originally posted by Crazy Canuck
Why can't the people who don't watch IRL, refrain from posting? If you don't watch/care/like IRL...then why post? I don't get it


CC

Because from what I can tell, that is only like 10-12 people.

So leave the 10-12 to it, start a thread: Miserable Infants Whine About U.S. Open-wheel Racing

#1484 aportinga

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 17:47

Originally posted by Crazy Canuck
Why can't the people who don't watch IRL, refrain from posting? If you don't watch/care/like IRL...then why post? I don't get it :confused:

CC


Hoping for change which as far as I am concerned has the shortest route in total failure.

It's also quite annoying to read fanboy revisionist history.

#1485 aportinga

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 17:51

Originally posted by rghojai
Originally posted by Crazy Canuck
Why can't the people who don't watch IRL, refrain from posting? If you don't watch/care/like IRL...then why post? I don't get it


CC

Because from what I can tell, that is only like 10-12 people.

So leave the 10-12 to it, start a thread: Miserable Infants Whine About U.S. Open-wheel Racing


But then we'll get 300 posts vs 10 posts on the "I like that car because it looks pretty and danica patrick is hot" thread.

Or you can call it - Oval only for the so called upper breed who acted like Miserable Infants while CART was in Control" thread.

How about just using the "ignore" option - now there is a novel thought :rolleyes:

#1486 jeze

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 17:52

For people who don't like IndyCar I can only say: Put up or SHUT up! Seriously, the concept is wonderful, sure the cars are ugly, but the racing at Chicagoland makes it all worth it!

#1487 Buford

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 17:56

Originally posted by aportinga



It's also quite annoying to read fanboy revisionist history.


Actually they have a complete censored forum for that called Track Forum. All of you "see no evil hear no evil I like the colors and zoom zoom sounds" mopes can go there and lie and BS and bubble platitudes all you want without any need to face reality or contradiction. Try it you'll like it.

Or start a thread "Mind Numbing Tony George Ass Kissing and History Revisionism By Nimrods." That would work too.

#1488 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:06

Originally posted by red stick
Also driver columns from Franchitti, http://auto-racing.s...treet-fighting/, and Wilson. http://auto-racing.s...-dream-weekend/

Didn't know Wilson was dyslexic. Seems like the drivers get on well. "Dixie?"


Also gotta like Wilson's nickname. "Bad Ass." Love it.

#1489 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:24

Originally posted by aportinga
But then we'll get 300 posts vs 10 posts on the "I like that car because it looks pretty and danica patrick is hot" thread. . .


Careful. You're channeling Buford. Stake out your own territory. The original still lives.

#1490 Buford

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:37

Other possibilities

Let's All Reward Tony George for Ruining Our Sport Thread
Let's Gush About Puke Sound Crapwagons Thread
Stop Being Mean To Us You Meanies Thread
IF You Don't Agree With Us We will Threaten to Beat You Up Or Wish You Dead IRL Fans For Glory Thread

#1491 VoidNT

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:39

Great to see Buford still fighting with the lemmings and Tony George. Fascinating stuff, some things never change. :clap: :smoking:

#1492 Buford

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:41

Everybody's gotta have a hobby lol.

#1493 aportinga

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:42

Originally posted by red stick


Careful. You're channeling Buford. Stake out your own territory. The original still lives.


Well I hope you didn't read that I was directing my remark at you...

#1494 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:43

Originally posted by Buford
Other possibilities

Let's All Reward Tony George for Ruining Our Sport Thread
Let's Gush About Puke Sound Crapwagons Thread
Stop Being Mean To Us You Meanies Thread
IF You Don't Agree With Us We will Threaten to Beat You Up Or Wish You Dead IRL Fans For Glory Thread


Why can't you just let people enjoy what they like? You've said your piece, by now people know the score and have made up their minds. At least be man enough to respect it.

#1495 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:47

Originally posted by aportinga
Well I hope you didn't read that I was directing my remark at you...


No worries.  ;)

I'm vaguely familiar with my writing and your description bore no resemblance.

#1496 Buford

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:49

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Why can't you just let people enjoy what they like? You've said your piece, by now people know the score and have made up their minds. At least be man enough to respect it.


Because I have about as much respect for those who would reward Tony George for ruining the sport as I have for hypocritical twerps like you - none whatsoever.

Plus to quote famous racing journalist Denis Jenkinson, "In every group there should be someone in the back row who stands up and shouts rubbish."

#1497 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 18:53

If my opinions have changed over the years it's because I know better now. I'm not rewarding Tony George, I'm watching Indycar racing. I guess I'm one of these idiots that likes colors and vroom vroom noises, but I don't follow racing for the politics or the arguments.

#1498 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 19:17

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I'm not rewarding Tony George, I'm watching Indycar racing.


:up:

Which sums up the attitude of many of us.

Unfortunately Ross, as you know better than most, to Buford, watching IndyCar racing IS rewarding Tony George. Speaking publicly about IndyCar racing is supporting Tony George. Paying money to watch the product at an actual track is offering to have his love child.

The notion that we can enjoy the sport and not endorse its owner is anathema. Yet you can watch F1 and not be in Max Mosley's corner. It's a odd world.

#1499 red stick

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 19:18

Originally posted by Buford
Plus to quote famous racing journalist Denis Jenkinson, "In every group there should be someone in the back row who stands up and shouts rubbish."


The back row is behind you. You're in the front row. And blocking the screen.

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#1500 Buford

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 19:26

Originally posted by red stick


:up:

The notion that we can enjoy the sport and not endorse its owner is anathema. Yet you can watch F1 and not be in Max Mosley's corner. It's a odd world.


Max Mosely was elected and can be unelected. He didn't inherit power from his mommy first job of his life just out of drug rehab. He didn't replace the racers with scabs, lie to race fans about his intentions, and his plan did not turn millions of fans away from the sport. Bad analogy. Putting money in Tony George's pocket is obviously rewarding him. Millions of racing fans who existed prior to the tantrum are boycotting the IRL, either overtly such as myself and others here, or because they left the sport entirely, disgusted by the entire fiasco which TG is responsible for. Again if you mopes want to gush about "a bad series" as Ross has labeled it without contrary opinion, go gush with the propeller heads on Track Forum who are equally as clueless to matters of integrity and history as you are.