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#1551 Keir

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 16:19

Common sense. Ross. I applaud.

How can one not love Legge?

To the continuing TG haters, your bitching is the ringing of a silent bell. As I have said before, TG is the only person doing anything in OW. If any of the individuals involved in the sport thought as you do, someone, anyone would have garnered the resources to buy TG out by now. They haven't. You'll say he won't sell, but everyone has their price. And the price to own IndyCar isn't exactly going up.

As for Danica, she's racing, you're not, get over it. Even briefly.

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#1552 aportinga

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 16:47

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Because all the cars and engines were built to different rules.

IRL chassis are built to one set of rules, the Lolas and Reynards to another, and the Panoz to a third. And then you have normally aspirated vs turbo charged engines of different sizes. It'd be an absolutely nightmare trying to get them all together. It'd be less competitive than the way it is now because the smaller teams would be stuck with whatever cars they had leftover instead of trying to get the one that was most competitive. You might as well let in Indylights and old F1 cars while you're at it.

And can we get over the Danica infatuation, even briefly? She's such a non-entity now. I think the best thing to ever happen was her 'win' because every race is no longer "Can she do it this weekend??!!!?!?!?!" and she's just another driver now, one that happens to bring some extra attention which they can ill afford to dispose of. She's no different now than anyone else who brings sponsorship with them. Worst case scenario she at least puts an extra card on the grid.

Though it is comical, everyone was pro-Danica when she was in the CART-ladder and loved Kathy Legge. It's about politics, nothing else.


I don't believe one second that there is not enough data on the Lola/Panoz & Dallara chassis to integrate them in one series - same said for the Honda/Cosi.

I'll give up Danica - but you're the one that engaged the discussion - I just posted a porta poty incident for a few laughs and levity. And for the record - I never liked her in CART the moment she started whoring her herself out to FHM.

#1553 aportinga

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 16:51

Originally posted by Keir


As for Danica, she's racing, you're not, get over it. Even briefly.


Yup - that's it! Although I'm willing to bet I get paid more at my current job then the majority of IRL drivers.

You deserve a bunny: Posted Image

#1554 Keir

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:06

But they are racing!

BTW, thanks for the bunny.

#1555 Buford

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:08

Originally posted by red stick
Given Buford's years on track in the heat of competition, I'm curious about how he rates the current drivers. We know how he rates TG, but what about Kanaan? Dixon? Briscoe? I'm not a racer--how do racers look at current racers?


I don't know. I recall last season McGuire the history rewriter making the case todays drivers are the best of all time. I forget his arguments exactly for that opinion, but I recall he said Kanaan was the best of the current drivers. Therefore to follow his logic (my interpretation), Kanaan was the best driver of all time. This statement was made shortly before Kanaan made an unforced error and spun out of the lead. lol.

Growing up watching A.J. Foyt, Jim Clark, Dan Gurney, Eddie Sachs, Jim Rathmann, Rodger Ward, Mario Andretti, Johnny Rutherford, the Unsers, Gordon Johncock, Jim Hurtubise, Roger Mc Cluskey, Don Branson, Swede Savage, Art Pollard, and many more drive crap cars, truly experimental rockets in the unknown, when the slightest mistake meant a fireball, it's hard for me to rank today's drivers in their under powered over stuck crap wagons in their league. They are probably a bit better conditioned, but that's about the only area I could rate them higher. Maybe they could have run with them, the best could maybe I don't know. If they have the balls to actually risk their lives and beat everybody else doing the same as well as the skill to control cars that aren't stuck down to disguise incompetence of low talent ride buyers. And do it more for the thrills than the money. I highly doubt that many would be in the lead pack with the guys mentioned

The thing is, though I only drove an Indy Car once, I drove sprint cars and those are the hardest cars to drive of all. And yet, it really is easier than it looks. I am pretty sure todays stone sleds are pretty easy to drive. If somebody the size of Danica can do as well as she does how hard can it be? If Janet Guthrie could drive one handed and finish 9th at Indy in 1978 with an untreated broken wrist, how hard was it then? How good are they, I don't know. To me though doing it when it was test driving the unknown on the ragged edge of physics with no computers on rock hard tires and a fireball looming trumps todays kiddie cars and that's not the driver's fault. They have to drive what they are given to race.

#1556 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:14

Im assuming what McGuire may have meant was todays drivers are the best trained/developed. Think of how good a modern fighter pilot is, even from a tinpot nation, compared to the best pilots in the world from WW1. A modern civilian pilot is proably 'better' than the Red Baron.

#1557 red stick

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:33

Originally posted by Buford
The thing is, though I only drove an Indy Car once, I drove sprint cars and those are the hardest cars to drive of all. And yet, it really is easier than it looks. I am pretty sure todays stone sleds are pretty easy to drive. If somebody the size of Danica can do as well as she does how hard can it be? If Janet Guthrie could drive one handed and finish 9th at Indy in 1978 with an untreated broken wrist, how hard was it then? How good are they, I don't know. To me though doing it when it was test driving the unknown on the ragged edge of physics with no computers on rock hard tires and a fireball looming trumps todays kiddie cars and that's not the driver's fault. They have to drive what they are given to race.


OK. Given the parameters you've set, who among today's crowd has a shot at Team Buford, and who dares not show their face at your hauler?

#1558 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:36

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Im assuming what McGuire may have meant was todays drivers are the best trained/developed. Think of how good a modern fighter pilot is, even from a tinpot nation, compared to the best pilots in the world from WW1. A modern civilian pilot is proably 'better' than the Red Baron.


Speaking of...the bro in laws new ride, note the massive conformal tanks on the fuselage which make it heavier than all get out. These are made to spec for the 'tinpot' UAE, they are the only ones flying this mod.

F-16 / Block 60

#1559 tifosi

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:39

Originally posted by Buford


Growing up watching A.J. Foyt, Jim Clark, Dan Gurney, Eddie Sachs, Jim Rathmann, Rodger Ward, Mario Andretti, Johnny Rutherford, the Unsers, Gordon Johncock, Jim Hurtubise, Roger Mc Cluskey, Don Branson, Swede Savage, Art Pollard, and many more drive crap cars,


Man, Swede Savage. Such a short career, he was one of my first "hero's" in racing along with Andretti and Foyt (also Yarborough in the tintops). I was gutted watching that fireball at the end of pit lane. Shamefully that is one of my earliest racing memories. Prior to that it was the dirt track for the USAC cars at the Tulsa Fairgrounds. You ever race out there? If so, you probably rained some dirt clods on me. As kids we loved it.

A shame, I'm sure, with modern medicine he would have raced again. There still is controversy into the exact cause of death.

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#1560 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:50

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


Speaking of...the bro in laws new ride, note the massive conformal tanks on the fuselage which make it heavier than all get out. These are made to spec for the 'tinpot' UAE, they are the only ones flying this mod.

F-16 / Block 60


Is that because they've got so much oil in the Gulf they carry it around with them?

#1561 Buford

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:53

Originally posted by red stick


OK. Given the parameters you've set, who among today's crowd has a shot at Team Buford, and who dares not show their face at your hauler?


You trying to stir up trouble boy? :rotfl:

#1562 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 17:57

If it's unwinged sprint cars I'd risk a try-out.

#1563 red stick

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 18:00

Not really, Buford, just curious. As I said, I'm supposing racers take their craft seriously and have some insight into who's doing it really well, and who's the beneficiary of equipment which flatters them. I'm certain you view a race differently than I do, and the difference might shed some light.

My former boss was, in his youth, a college and professional football player. He looked at football games differently than those of us who never played the game. The insights were priceless.

#1564 Buford

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 18:11

Well I have said it here before. Racing is better when the drivers are good and the cars are bad than the other way around. In my era, and even more so prior to that, all the cars were bad, so you could tell which drivers were good in how they managed evil unpredictable cars. Today when the cars all are good, from the standpoint of not doing anything evil, it makes it hard to know who is good.

Good drivers in bad cars can no longer beat bad drivers in good cars, when the difference between good and bad cars may be nothing more than the width of a human hair in more than 100 adjustments. When drivers like little Andretti repeatedly get out of cars and walk away pronouncing them undriveabe, sorry I think his grandfather would have driven it and probably won. So I can only judge by unforced errors and running into each other passing and they seem to do an awful lot of that today.

I will just say this and this will surprise many. When Danica went into turn one at Indy on her first qualifying lap ever as a rookie, the tail snapped out on her and she whipped the steering wheel right, caught it, and then snapped it back left so as not to go head on into the wall, like Smiley did. A total suicidal no no at Indy. A move you must never ever make. A move i have only seen made by one other driver, Juan Montoya, well...... guess what?

That impressed me.

#1565 red stick

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 18:15

Thanks. :)

#1566 wide-front-wing

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 18:15

Originally posted by Buford


You trying to stir up trouble boy? :rotfl:


Kimi Raikkonen is every bit and more of bad ass as you ever were...

As is

Montoya
and Michael "I'll run you off the road" Schumacher

not to mention one bad mofo - Jean Alesi...

and Mr. Hotshoe Kyle Busch...

They just wash once a day and run a comb through their hair, so you've decided they aren't hairy chested enough to be on your "list"...

...but any one of these guys would have kicked your ass on track in your cars in your day, routinely.

#1567 Buford

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 18:18

WTF you talking about i didn't make a list and i was asked about current Indy car drivers not F1 or Nascar. And I never claimed once here or anywhere else I was better than any of them. Just I wish I had gotten a chance to try. Piss off. This is the exact reason I ducked the question. Hair balls like you waiting to pounce when it is all just opinion in the first place.

#1568 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 18:21

I wonder how guys from different eras would 'look' if they were switched. Would a lot of those 70s guys look like Montoyas if you put them in today's cars? Would the supersmooth trouble avoiders like Franchitti have been the Rick Mears of their day?

#1569 Buford

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 18:23

Yeah or Al Unser Sr. A totally different style than Bobby, yet both successful.

#1570 blackgerby

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 19:05

Anybody in this thread actually talking about the racing, or are you (most of you) just going to continue to stomp and compare chest hair? :rolleyes:

#1571 aportinga

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 19:06

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I wonder how guys from different eras would 'look' if they were switched. Would a lot of those 70s guys look like Montoyas if you put them in today's cars? Would the supersmooth trouble avoiders like Franchitti have been the Rick Mears of their day?


Some transcend - Mears (IMO) would have been a solid driver what ever was under him.

#1572 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 20:18

Have there been any racing discuss on this thread? I mean actual on-track and off-tracks moves and news.

#1573 red stick

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 21:10

Originally posted by Pikachu Racing
Have there been any racing discuss on this thread? I mean actual on-track and off-tracks moves and news.


Not much going on this week ahead of Long Beach, and what there is has been linked to. Scheckter and 3G still don't have a deal so Tomas will not be at Long Beach. Paul Tracy's most of the way toward a ride with KV for Indy. Helio's jury is still deliberating. Franchitti and Kanaan have a bet between the two of them on races won this year, but it's about hair.

If you're aware of anything else, please enlighten us.

#1574 aportinga

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 21:41

I am eating fajitas tonight :up:

#1575 rghojai

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 22:12

Getting completely off-topic, wow, strange-looking plane. Looks like it requires extra-long landing gear (?) Do we know what led them to go that route?

#1576 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 22:29

Originally posted by rghojai
Getting completely off-topic, wow, strange-looking plane. Looks like it requires extra-long landing gear (?) Do we know what led them to go that route?


Well, they no longer need to carry the belly tank, the conformal tanks are for fuel. The belly tank on this one is a luggage pod, which to the bro in laws delight will fit exactly one bag of golf clubs. I don't believe the UAE has air to air refueling capacity, and they probably need longer legs for maritime patrol. It is also a more aerodynamically slicker aircraft with the conformals and no belly tank. One other thing that comes to mind and this is strictly conjecture on my behalf, it seems that most of the mid eastern air forces delight in low level tactics, which sucks up fuel in a big way, so the added legs may help there. As to the landing gear, I don't believe there is any change, since that would require major airframe work. You can see the doors in that pic are halfway through on closing up.
The bro in law has a brand new one of these with his name on it, when he flew out to Dallas to pick it up it had 12 hours on it,courtesy of the UAE, since he is the head training pilot.
Rank helps too ;)

#1577 Lemnpiper

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 02:55

Hi Buford ,

While can fully understand why you have the beliefs you have in regards to Tony George and the cars there is a viewpoint i feel you might wanna consider .

Basically you have been around racing for most of your life so you know the ins&outs of racing to a far far greater degree than most here.
Meanwhile i'm a fan who up to the split figured i might eventaully make it to an indy car race only thru a massive effort since not too many were held near me. Plus the guys racing would be to me just images on a tv screen and actually meeting the drivers was a pipedream.
It ended up being a resident in the Richmond area literally a race was placed within a mile of my home and since they started racing here i have had access to the drivers and the cars via pit passes that havent seen since the mid 1970's here when nascar raced on the smaller oval.So for that reason while i can accept your position , to those never in postion to actually attend many races in the past or even dream of competing the split did have some benefits.The question eventaully will be if the new format attacts the number of fans too keep the series a viable series.

Thanks
Paul

#1578 Buford

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:18

Yes Paul I understand. If you never saw the three ring circus "Greatest Show on Earth", where the tight rope walkers worked without nets and the lion tamer really put his head in the lions mouth, then you missed the show. They closed the pizza place before you got off mothers milk.

So in later years when the snake oil salesmen and freak show comes to town, its better than going downtown and watching the haircuts to you anyway. You have nothing else to compare it to. Hey I envy your youth, but not your memories.

This is kinda like it was when it was the real thing

#1579 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:21

Ugh, 1992 was the first year I watched live. As I recall Michael and Mario swept around Cheever at the start on either side and then of course you had that finish. I figured every autorace was going to be like that...

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#1580 Mat

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:48

Originally posted by Buford
This is kinda like it was when it was the real thing


oh man, memories!! thanks for that! :up:

#1581 B Squared

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:40

"There comes a time in a race where money doesn't matter, living doesn't matter. Winning is the only thing that matters."
Al Unser Jr.

Now that is a proper quote from a race driver. That intro and similar others, over the years, still raise the hair on the back of my neck. Thanks for the reminder Buford.

Brian

#1582 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 13:26

Al Unser jr will be the Grand Marshal this weekend at Long Beach, and I believe he's in the Celeb race there as well.

#1583 B Squared

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 15:06

You are correct, from IndyCar.com:

For almost 20 years, Al Unser Jr. has been known as the King of the Beach. This year, when the IndyCar Series makes its debut in on the streets of Long Beach, Unser will add at least one more title.

Unser, who won the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach a record six times between 1988 and 1995, will be the grand marshal for the 35th running April 19. In addition, Unser will lead the professional contingent in the popular Toyota Pro/Celebrity race, and he and longtime rival (and former teammate) Bobby Rahal will be inducted into the Motorsports Walk of Fame.

"Southern California is always beautiful at this time of year, and the fans make Long Beach more than just a race," said Unser, driver coach with the sanctioning Indy Racing League. "They love the single-seat open-wheel cars, and what I'm really excited about it is now it's back to where they can see the Indy cars that will run the Indy 500 on the streets of Long Beach again, like it used to be back in the 1980s and '90s. That's what made it special."

Unser believes one reason he always performed well on the tricky street course was despite the fact that it was such a different kind of track compared to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, he treated the event as a warm-up for Indy and the month of May.

"For me in particular, it was the race before the Indy 500," said Unser, a two-time winner of the 500-Mile Race. "You really want to do well the race before the Indy 500 so you can take that momentum into the month of May. I really, really worked hard on that race in particular because it generally fell before the month of May. If you could win that race, the whole team would take that momentum into the month of May and think, 'We can win against these guys.'

"When you take that momentum into the month of May, it's great for the entire team so we really worked hard at it. It just makes for an exciting event."

Click HERE to listen to drivers talk about their favorite corners on the circuit

During his eight-year Long Beach run, Unser won six times (1988, '89, '90, '91, '94 and '95) and added a fourth-place finish in 1992. He looked set to win that year, too, only to be bumped out of the lead late in the race by his Galles Racing teammate Danny Sullivan. In that span, Unser led laps at Long Beach every year except 1993, totaling a record 545.

"He was very good there and he proved it more and more," said three-time Long Beach race winner Mario Andretti. "He certainly won his share there and had that place down pat."

Unser, who will celebrate his 47th birthday on April 19, recorded 31 race wins and two championships (1990 and '94) in the CART/PPG IndyCar World Series, and he added three more victories under Indy Racing League sanction. He also won two International Race of Champions titles, and was the last non-NASCAR driver to win the all-star championship.

This will actually be Unser's second appearance in the Long Beach Pro/Celebrity Race.

"I won by such a large margin (1985) that they never asked me back again until now," he said, breaking into laughter. "But I wish I was competing as a celebrity, because the pros have to start from the back.

"I'm going to enjoy it. I'm really happy that Les Unger and Toyota invited me to run and I can't thank them enough for all that they have done for me this year."

Brian

#1584 metz

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 15:43

Looks like Sarah has her sponsorship in high gear.

http://promomagazine...eepstakes-0414/

#1585 red stick

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 15:49

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII
Al Unser jr will be the Grand Marshal this weekend at Long Beach, and I believe he's in the Celeb race there as well.


After a rough couple of years, it looks like Little Al has found his footing. I'm glad he's back.

#1586 Buford

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:18

Originally posted by B Squared
"There comes a time in a race where money doesn't matter, living doesn't matter. Winning is the only thing that matters."
Al Unser Jr.

Now that is a proper quote from a race driver. That intro and similar others, over the years, still raise the hair on the back of my neck. Thanks for the reminder Buford.

Brian


There is a plaque out front that says National Historic Place. To drivers of my generation it meant the pinnacle of excellence. "Winning is the only thing that matters." Well getting there first was all that mattered to me and many others. To qualify on merit, not have daddy buy you a guaranteed starting position like Racin' Gardner. A position earned by somebody else and made salable on the open market by one man holding the Indianapolis 500 as a bargaining chip in a power grab.

Sure he had the right, and sure business is business. But to many of us, millions of us there was more to the Indianapolis 500 in that National Historic place than making money. It was about having risen to the indisputable top of one of the most difficult and dangerous activities those who walk the earth could ever engage in. Even 33rd was a win to us. It meant you were for a few short moments, one of the best.

To qualify at Indy meant you had arrived and were a success. As Mario said, "There comes a time when you just have to go for it." This is why the racing teams came and gave their all every year, and paid far more money to do it monetarily, and in blood sometimes than they ever got back. One man destroyed it all. It wasn't the race teams and car owners who cheapened the Indianapolis 500 and destroyed the mystique of "The Big Event." The 25/8 rule destroyed the concept the Indianapolis 500 was about excellence. It dishonored every driver who ever paid in blood trying to qualify on merit, like a driver who befriended me as a teenager, Bob Hurt, paralyzed for life trying to qualify. His daddy couldn't buy him a guaranteed position. Tony George was not in charge yet.

Don't give me this monumental Keir style bullshit, Tony George is the only one doing anything. He is the only one who destroyed the sport you blathering moron. Everything came after was a reaction to an attack on the concept of Indy Car racing was about something more than grabbing power. Anyone who puts money in his pocket is rewarding the man who dishonored a national historic place, and all those who won and lost there on merit over the decades. Today its just another race. Thanks Tony, and thanks lemming ****. Watch the clip. There was a time when there were loftier concepts involved in Indy car racing than "Making the best of a bad series." I realize such concepts fly over the heads of a Keir or 917K or a Coldheart. I think Ross might understand but won't admit it.

#1587 B Squared

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:32

"Don't give me this monumental Keir style bullshit, Tony George is the only one doing anything. He is the only one who destroyed the sport you blathering moron. Everything came after was a reaction to an attack on the concept of Indy Car racing was about something more than grabbing power. Anyone who puts money in his pocket is rewarding the man who dishonored a national historic place, and all those who won and lost there on merit over the decades. Today its just another race. Thanks Tony, and thanks lemming ****." Buford

I only said thanks. blathering moron? rather ironic, I'd say. You keep on being happy and loving life, chief. As far as history lessons about IMS - sorry, the one you keep advocating is not needed by me. You weren't the only one who lived through it.

edit: thanks for the clarification.

Brian

#1588 Buford

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:33

That was referring to Keir man, not you. He is the one claiming Tony George is the only one trying to do anything for Indy car racing. What he has done for Indy Car racing is destroy the sport. Don't reward him.

#1589 Lemnpiper

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 21:45

Hi Buford,


Actually having been born in 1954 i fear "youth" isnt on my side anymore .

Anyway i seem to be one of those fans who follows the racing on the track to a greater degree and try not to get into the politics of those that do run the sanctioning organizations. Too me when the 'war" broke out between Tony Goerge and those running Cart it reminded me of the late 1970's when you had CART & USAC goin at one another over scheduling events. The difference is that in that earlier dispute a lot of what was lost seems ot get short shift compared ot what was lost in the later dispute.

Examples . The path to indy late 1970's started tilting towards road racers vs silver car/ midget based drivers in an ever increasing degree as the years went by.
Also with the demise of Ontario the Triple Crown suffered a major hit.( This is something Tony needs to revive with Indy Pocono & Michigan) This would be the signature self contained portion of the circuit that gives added importance to the series overall.
While Tony Made a lot of mistakes initially (25/8 lineups) when you look at the series since the reunion it is showing signs of having some of the very best talented drivers since the early 1990's.And in regards to talent while i agree some may be posers , there are also some very excellent drivers competing in the series now.
Plus if you go back to the 1911 Indy 500 and look at each succeeding year you will see rich playboys using money to buy the best cars and you will see crapwagon cars entered in an attempt to race.

Nothing more would diminish the stature of a race than it's ending. Wilbur Shaw realized this in 1945 and saved it for you and me to enjoy to this day via it's various illiterations.

We will never view Tony George in the same light and i accept that , and the massive dissapointment you feel about him is something i didnt experience and cant hold against you ..One day perhaps if we live long enough to watch Tony's successor our mutual opninons may change.


Thanks,
Paul

#1590 shaggy

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 00:48

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

And give me a break, everyone's heard of Indycar. It was a mess trying to explain what CART or the IRL were. It was far easier to just call them Indycars for 10 years and sponsors were only ever interested in hearing about the 500. If those facts don't wash with your world view, I don't know what to tell you.

Everyone has heard of it, but less than 300,000 watch it now. Therein lies the problem.
Do you think Kannan, Dixon or Helio have the recognition of Andretti, Foyt, Mears, etc ?
Sponsors only want to hear about Indy, but, even after hearing about it, they go for the Brickyard instead.
Deal with those facts.

Watch what you like. I used to watch CC when only 150,000 would watch it on TV. But I never pretended to fool myself into believing that CC would rise "next year" or any of the revisionism from IRL fans.

#1591 Slyder

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 04:15

Originally posted by shaggy

Everyone has heard of it, but less than 300,000 watch it now. Therein lies the problem.
Do you think Kannan, Dixon or Helio have the recognition of Andretti, Foyt, Mears, etc ?
Sponsors only want to hear about Indy, but, even after hearing about it, they go for the Brickyard instead.
Deal with those facts.

Watch what you like. I used to watch CC when only 150,000 would watch it on TV. But I never pretended to fool myself into believing that CC would rise "next year" or any of the revisionism from IRL fans.


Guess Tony George regrets having Sam Hornish let go to NASCAR....

#1592 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 05:34

Originally posted by Slyder


Guess Tony George regrets having Sam Hornish let go to NASCAR....


I'm thinking Sam Hornish regrets he went to NASCAR...
He was top dog in the irl, in NASCAR he's hovering around the 30th dog.
And some say the talent level in the irl is at it's best right now.
Hmmmm...

#1593 rghojai

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:23

I'm not sure from the verbiage about TG, Hornish, but it sorta reads like TG had a say in it. I had understood it was a Penske thing. Wasn't clear what Hornish thought about it, how much Penske put the screws to him, if Hornish won Indy, was jazzed to move on to a new challenge, etc.

Anyone with more knowledge, better recollections?

And some say the talent level in the irl is at it's best right now.

Who?

The "some say" trick. Some people say man never went to the moon, that the Trilateral Commission rules the world and Princess Diana was killed because she would not go along with plans for Bill and Hillary Clinton to divorce so Bill and Diana could get married and be the seekrit world leaders.

#1594 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:24

The IRL grid is not only the strongest its ever been compared to any grid it's had in its history, but because fundamentally no one is missing that is racing in a rival series.

#1595 aportinga

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 13:21

Originally posted by Lemnpiper
Hi Buford,


Actually having been born in 1954 i fear "youth" isnt on my side anymore .

Anyway i seem to be one of those fans who follows the racing on the track to a greater degree and try not to get into the politics of those that do run the sanctioning organizations. Too me when the 'war" broke out between Tony Goerge and those running Cart it reminded me of the late 1970's when you had CART & USAC goin at one another over scheduling events. The difference is that in that earlier dispute a lot of what was lost seems ot get short shift compared ot what was lost in the later dispute.

Examples . The path to indy late 1970's started tilting towards road racers vs silver car/ midget based drivers in an ever increasing degree as the years went by.
Also with the demise of Ontario the Triple Crown suffered a major hit.( This is something Tony needs to revive with Indy Pocono & Michigan) This would be the signature self contained portion of the circuit that gives added importance to the series overall. While Tony Made a lot of mistakes initially (25/8 lineups) when you look at the series since the reunion it is showing signs of having some of the very best talented drivers since the early 1990's.And in regards to talent while i agree some may be posers , there are also some very excellent drivers competing in the series now.
Plus if you go back to the 1911 Indy 500 and look at each succeeding year you will see rich playboys using money to buy the best cars and you will see crapwagon cars entered in an attempt to race.

Nothing more would diminish the stature of a race than it's ending. Wilbur Shaw realized this in 1945 and saved it for you and me to enjoy to this day via it's various illiterations.

We will never view Tony George in the same light and i accept that , and the massive dissapointment you feel about him is something i didnt experience and cant hold against you ..One day perhaps if we live long enough to watch Tony's successor our mutual opninons may change.


Thanks,
Paul


Good post - I highligted some points that I strongly agree with - easy points which even the fans would have embraced.... Still says very little that TG did not from the start (when he could have) and still doesn't today :down:

#1596 aportinga

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 13:23

Originally posted by Slyder


Guess Tony George regrets having Sam Hornish let go to NASCAR....


He probably does - only because he's an idiot. Anyone with any sense knows that Hornish would have been spanked at every non-oval for the remainder of his career - thus diminishing his reputation as a good driver.

Hornish jumped at the right time.

#1597 Slyder

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 13:28

Hornish was getting his act together on Road courses.

#1598 Keir

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 14:06

So, all bull aside, who, beside TG is doing anything for OW in the USA ??

You anti-TG syncophants are always ready to pounce, but you have no answers.

TG is destroying OW !! The sky is falling !! Yet year after year, season after season, the likes of Penske, Gannassi, AGR et al. come to race! You name calling, no evidence, know nothings keep hanging the crape on the firehouse walls crying OH DOOM, OH DOOM !! TG has ruined OW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! But they keep coming !

Porsche pulls out of ALMS - Penske leaves. Acura wants to go LMP1 - AGR leaves and goes to A1GP.

..... But they both come back to IndyCar, year after year, season after season.

Then again, they race, you don't.

All you can do is name call like a bunch of sophomoric, school boys who didn't get enough toys to play with.

Gee, no one sees TG the way I do and if everyone doesn't agree with me, I'll call them names and hold my breath and stamp my feet and tell them I personally brought 100 people to Indy in the back of my pickup.
And I am the only person allowed to have an opinion ..... yada, yada, yada.

Get a life - TG has one.

#1599 wide-front-wing

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 14:45

Originally posted by Keir
So, all bull aside, who, beside TG is doing anything for OW in the USA ??

You anti-TG syncophants are always ready to pounce, but you have no answers.

TG is destroying OW !! The sky is falling !! Yet year after year, season after season, the likes of Penske, Gannassi, AGR et al. come to race! You name calling, no evidence, know nothings keep hanging the crape on the firehouse walls crying OH DOOM, OH DOOM !! TG has ruined OW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! But they keep coming !

Porsche pulls out of ALMS - Penske leaves. Acura wants to go LMP1 - AGR leaves and goes to A1GP.

..... But they both come back to IndyCar, year after year, season after season.

Then again, they race, you don't.

All you can do is name call like a bunch of sophomoric, school boys who didn't get enough toys to play with.

Gee, no one sees TG the way I do and if everyone doesn't agree with me, I'll call them names and hold my breath and stamp my feet and tell them I personally brought 100 people to Indy in the back of my pickup.
And I am the only person allowed to have an opinion ..... yada, yada, yada.

Get a life - TG has one.


TG may have a life - but he no longer has a race, thanks to your hero we now have Daytona in February to prop up against Monaco and Le Mans....he's a real hero. :rolleyes: :down:

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#1600 red stick

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 14:46

More on Al Unser, Jr.:

http://auto-racing.s...-unser-jr-done/