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IndyCar 2009 (merged)


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#351 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 22:33

Originally posted by Keir
aportinga,
I will not respond to any Danica baiting other than to say, Do you have the winning mega millions numbers for this coming Tuesday ??


The only thing Danica is good for is publicity.
She's 1 in around a hundred as a race driver.
Pretty sad that the irl is reduced to surviving on publicity from a loser of a driver.
Must be a vision thing.

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#352 Guido.Gofasta

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 22:58

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Are there any odds on Danica doing Playboy this year?


Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


Isn't she more a Penthouse type?


Who cares? The real question is how good would Buford make her look?

#353 Option1

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 23:23

Can't.... resist.... cheap..... shot...............

AAAaaaarggggghhhhhh

Hmmm, Buford could probably tell her a joke that would make her laugh her tits off... Oh hang on, she's obviously already heard it.



Sorry 'bout that, and while I'm definitely not a Danica fan, she's no worse than some and better than others, and is doing the best she can. Certainly, doesn't really deserve the animosity - that should be aimed, IMHO, at the marketers and media for whom someone like Ms Patrick is free beer.

Neil

#354 Buford

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 10:52

Danica doesn't bother me but I am still pretty mad about IRL Champion Buzz Calkins.

#355 metz

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 15:00

Read an interesting bit on a very reputable German site, AMuS.
http://www.auto-moto...rbo-931630.html
They discuss the merger or takeover of Audi and Porsche and the implications that has in the various racing series they compete in. As partners they obviously do not want to trip over each other in the same series.
As such, they are two of 4 manufacturers (also Honda and Alfa) having serious discussions with the IRL for the 2011 season. This is a follow on to the initial meeting of June24 that saw 10 manufacturers at the table. The current proposal being a switch to 2 litre, 4 cyl, turbo engines. Porsche/Audi could use the same engine for IRL and Le Mans one racing different brands.
I can't see these manufacturers getting involved without a significant restructuring of the IRL, resulting in less say for TG and more for the teams.
That sounds like a bit of good news.
Anybody else have more on this?

#356 Jim Thurman

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 22:06

Originally posted by Buford
Danica doesn't bother me but I am still pretty mad about IRL Champion Buzz Calkins.

What did Buzz ever do to you Buford? They (yes, including TG) tried handing it on a silver platter to Tony Stewart and Buzz still beat him (as did Jim Guthrie in one race).

#357 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 22:09

I think it was a huge embarrassment for the IRL that its "co-champion" was a moving chicane.

#358 Buford

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 01:21

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
I think it was a huge embarrassment for the IRL that its "co-champion" was a moving chicane.



Yeah that was it.

#359 pingu666

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 02:13

im not sure her position is any worse than JV's after his wdc tbh, entirely different meta, but still...

and yeah shes average, but whoop de do...

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#360 Jim Thurman

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:45

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
I think it was a huge embarrassment for the IRL that its "co-champion" was a moving chicane.

But Calkins was hardly a "moving chicane" the first couple of years. I mean he was no great shakes, but he was no Dr. Jack either. And he still beat Stewart :lol:

I think a lot of this comes from the names. CART supporters seized on "Buzz", "Racin" and "Buddy" as examples of all that was wrong, when they should have looked to Tony Stewart...but, as usual, he gets a free pass.

The embarrassment was that despite every effort to hand him the championship - "Smoke" choke.

I remember reading scathing attacks on Jim Guthrie...seemingly for simply beating another driver fair and square. How dare he do that!, the nerve. Perhaps, Calkins has been painted (tainted) by the same brush wielded by the same folks. Would not surprise me one bit, it's consistent with everything else they've done.

Check the stats, and you'll see that Calkins acquitted himself well (granted, one has to grade early IRL drivers on a rather large bell curve :) ). I recall him being completely out to lunch and literally a moving chicane one year at Indy and pretty much every other race that season, but IIRC, that was his last season.

As for the theory that A.J. Foyt prompted the IRL. I strongly disagree, but that will have to wait for another time.

#361 Buford

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 04:45

Re: Buzz Calkins etc. Prior to the IRL, Indy cars were considered the elite in the USA racing food chain. The IRL and 25/8 destroyed the mystique and "Big Event" draw and allure of American Indy car racing and once the chain of excellence back to Ray Harroun was broken, it could never be gotten back again. That is the tragedy to the sport of Tony George. Sure there were always back markers in Indy Car racing. Somebody has to lose. But until the ride buying started mid-1970s even the bad Indy car drivers were damn good. Ride buying cheapened the back of the field no doubt in late USAC and early CART, but still they had to race and get beaten by the real guys. They got no free ride to the top and by the mid-1990s there were few ride buyers left. Nearly all the drivers were well paid professionals.

Then came the scam of the IRL and to fill the field the scab drivers who were thrust to the front on daddy's money with no serious competition. That was the objection to the Tyces's and Racin's and Buzz's. Not just the names - the total fraud of their existence masquerading as real Indy Car drivers who got there on merit when they most certainly did not. No way these people were qualified to be in the top rank of Indy car drivers. They were stiffs running on daddy's money with hardly anybody any good to challenge them. The real professional drivers and teams were elsewhere. They were scam artists trying to sneak in the back door with no credibility. Sure there were guys like that before - for example Spike Gelhausen. But he had to race with real racers and teams. Buzz didn't and his name being ranked as Indy Car champion cheapens the sport's heritage and status. The millions of fans who left the sport because of him and the IRL have spoken with their disdain by leaving the sport and no longer attending races or watching on TV. The stench of the IRL ran off all the fans.

That is the legacy of Tony George and his Lemming followers and Buzz Calkins. They killed the sport by cheapening it and destroying the mystique of excellence the sport needed to survive. NASCAR stole the mantle of excellence... well actually it was handed to them on a silver platter. It makes me puke every time somebody asks me when they hear I was a race car driver once upon a time, "Oh did you race Nascar?" And when I tell them "No I didn't want to race Nascar, that was the bottom of the barrel when I was racing. i wanted to race Indy cars." And they look at me like "Huh?" "What planet are your from, Nascar rocks." The legacy of Buzz Calkins and Tony George. They stunk it up so bad they made Nascar the elite.

#362 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 05:53

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
They (yes, including TG) tried handing it on a silver platter to Tony Stewart


I'd like to hear more about this.

#363 indyracefan

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 13:14

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker


I'd like to hear more about this.


...so would Tony Stewart.

#364 Slyder

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 16:59

Well, at least Scott Sharp was the other co-champion, and contrary to Buzz, Scott had a very solid reputation and background...

#365 Slyder

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 17:02

Originally posted by Buford
That is the legacy of Tony George and his Lemming followers and Buzz Calkins. They killed the sport by cheapening it and destroying the mystique of excellence the sport needed to survive. NASCAR stole the mantle of excellence... well actually it was handed to them on a silver platter. It makes me puke every time somebody asks me when they hear I was a race car driver once upon a time, "Oh did you race Nascar?" And when I tell them "No I didn't want to race Nascar, that was the bottom of the barrel when I was racing. i wanted to race Indy cars." And they look at me like "Huh?" "What planet are your from, Nascar rocks." The legacy of Buzz Calkins and Tony George. They stunk it up so bad they made Nascar the elite.


This is interesting. Hey Buf, can you blame Ryan Newman when he said he wanted to be the next Richard Petty instead of the next Rick Mears back when he was sprint-car-ting?

#366 Buford

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 21:01

Originally posted by Slyder
Well, at least Scott Sharp was the other co-champion, and contrary to Buzz, Scott had a very solid reputation and background...


Agreed

This is interesting. Hey Buf, can you blame Ryan Newman when he said he wanted to be the next Richard Petty instead of the next Rick Mears back when he was sprint-car-ting?



Of course not but times had changed. The open wheel split was bleeding fans and sponsors and Nascar was on a rocket ride upward at that time. I had a Nascar ride arranged and then bought out from under me three weeks before we were to leave for the 1980 Daytona 500. I wasn't opposed to racing Nascar, I was just not seeking out to do it because Indy Cars in the 1970s and early 1980s when I was racing was far more prestigious and I didn't want to move to the south. However when offered a ride I of course took it. My main goal was to get a paid professional ride in anything. But you can't dispute Nascar's prestige in the 1970s was mostly confined to the Southeast and when people heard the word racing car driver, Nascar didn't immediately come to mind then. Indy Cars and Formula One did. Nascar was the bastard sister then.

#367 pingu666

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 21:31

did you ever make it into paid to drive level?

just curious :)

#368 Jim Thurman

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 22:17

Let me tackle this one first. I hope Russ is reading this :wave:...

Buford, you won't find me disagreeing with most of your points, save for a few...

Ride buyers. Ride buyers have existed almost since the beginning of racing. There were "ride buyers" at IMS in the 30's. The same lemmings you refer to are the ones that insisted that these "ride buyers" shut out deserving short track racers from Indy...and used Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart as their war cries. There is great irony in the rallying cries and how they had the greatest "ride buyers" ever, but that is for another post. Do you know what Buzz Calkins' dad did?, or Tyce Carlson's?, I'd say Racin Gardner's, but I know you do, and you brought up a great point about a possible connection to the George family. For one, Tyce Carlson was a USAC racer - ran Sprints, Midgets, Silver Crown. He was one of those guys, you know, that wouldn't have gotten a chance without the IRL (please note sarcasm and irony). Do you remember Ray Crawford? Ray did race Midgets, but was primarily a hobby racer who happened to own a chain of supermarkets in Southern California. Was he a ride buyer? How about going back to the teens and 20's - David Bruce-Brown was from a very wealthy family, how about Joe Boyer? - his father was president and board chairman of the Burroughs Corporation. Sorry, ride buying has always gone on. And I'm not comparing Calkins to Bruce-Brown or Boyer. Lord no... I also am not questioning the talent of Bruce-Brown or Boyer.

Sorry, I think the rabid CART folks (much like the rabid IRL folks do in their arguments) have singled out "Buzz", "Racin" and "Buddy" solely because of their names. I've read too many posts and columns that indicate so. If one checks the stats, Buzz did quite well the first couple of IRL seasons. Agreed, his pedigree wasn't good, with a decidely mediocre Indy Lights career. Yet, he still ran well and beat the vaunted Tony Stewart in the IRL. Buddy Lazier did well in the IRL, and yes, I am aware of his lack of success in CART. Racin Gardner, well...ok, next! :lol: Regardless of one's feelings toward the IRL, Buzz Calkins did well by their standard...and was hardly a moving chicane (at least outside of his latter days and IMS). If he was, well, then Tony Stewart couldn't beat or get past a "moving chicane" :lol:

I know of people who similarly questioned Joe Gosek and Paul Durant's racing backgrounds simply because they didn't know them. They didn't follow short track racing. Similarly, I've run up against that constantly with drivers from the Western U.S. - they haven't heard of 'em, so they can't be any good (no, much like with college sports it simply means you didn't bother to try to learn anything about them :) ) Granted Double O Joe and Durant were tokens to prove to the same brainwashed (lemmings as you refer to them) that the IRL was sticking to the "mission statement" (koff koff). Also, sadly, see - Steve Kinser. Tokenism for the "cause".

And as far as thinking "all" of racing is NASCAR, blame the media. There was a time where every sportscaster I saw thought all NASCAR races were "Indy" races, 20-25 years later it was reversed. Wow, progress! That's not Tony George's fault and would have happened without him. It's the general level of knowledge, or lack of, about auto racing of the general media and sportscasters/sportswriters in general in these United States. These guys could only name 3-5 race drivers before and now many could only name 2-3. That is hardly Buzz Calkins fault. Very little of racing sticks to their brains.

The rest, I concur with. Buf, blame TG all you want and I can think of several drivers worthy of dumping on, but Buzz isn't anywhere near the top of that list. Jack Miller, now there was a moving chicane. But even Dr. Jack didn't lead to NASCAR's popularity or cause the inability of mentally challenged/biased sports media :)

Really, if you truly hate the IRL there's others you should be blaming in addition to Tony George. You make it sound like he thought of the "mission statement" of the IRL all by himself. Don't you think you're giving him too much credit? :)

#369 Jim Thurman

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 22:23

A couple of random thoughts...

In mentioning college sports in that last post I recall when an ass---- sportswriter in Chicago could not handle that Gonzaga (then totally unknown East of the Rockies) beat his beloved hometown DePaul in basketball. He responded by saying "Gonzaga?!, that sounds like a nut candy bar." Ha ha ha. But turn it around, that means DePaul couldn't beat a nut candy bar. Much like Tony Stewart couldn't beat a "moving chicane" :lol:

And one other thought...Buf, if you could go back in time would you pull a Terminator and keep Elmer George away from Mari Hulman?;)

#370 Buford

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 22:24

Originally posted by pingu666
did you ever make it into paid to drive level?

just curious :)


Yes in IMSA I did from time to time and USAC and WOO percentages of purses that kind of thing but I never made a living from racing.

#371 Buford

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 22:52

No Ray Crawford was not a ride buyer, he was a car owner/driver. The definition of a ride buyer vs a owner/driver is whether they provide an entry that would not have existed before (owner/driver) or whether they bought their way into a ride that already existed and could have gone to a driver on merit. Guys who start their own teams who have existed since the beginning of the sport are not ride buyers.

True there were always actual ride buyers but buying a ride from a existing team was not common and it is generally considered the first of the modern era ride buyers was Eddie Miller about 1975, a FF champion who bought a ride at Indy and proceeded to flip into the infield snakepit area inside the first turn, over the spectator fence into the crowd area on one of his very first laps in the car. Fortunately nobody was there to get hit but on qualifying day (pre IRL when people actually went) it would have been a disaster.

Miller was considered to be the first ride buyer in the manner we came to know them in the latter part of the 20th century. Under that definition Buzz wasn't a ride buyer because it was a family team, in the same manner as Spike Gelhausen. But Spike had to face real competition and Buzz had to face a scam job he was part of. TG was so cynical he thought the Indy 500 was bulletproof and the fans would still come and watch if they ran anybody in anything. Losing 1/4 of the attendance and 1/2 the TV audience shows him he was wrong.

#372 Buford

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 23:07

Originally posted by Jim Thurman

And one other thought...Buf, if you could go back in time would you pull a Terminator and keep Elmer George away from Mari Hulman?;)


Ha ha my dad recalled Mari as a loud mouthed, foul mouth slut at the midget races in Soldier's field in the early 1950s. He didn't know her dad yet then but he recalls her vividly because she was the good time had by all and women didn't publicly swear then and she did lol. And women weren't publicly promiscuous in the days before birth control but she was. The typical rich spoiled princess working her way through the drivers. Elmer spotted his meal ticket and picked it up. Worked well until he got killed in a lovers triangle shootout with the farm hand.

#373 pingu666

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 01:42

Originally posted by Buford


Yes in IMSA I did from time to time and USAC and WOO percentages of purses that kind of thing but I never made a living from racing.


thats pretty cool :up:

#374 Jim Thurman

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 01:54

Originally posted by Buford
No Ray Crawford was not a ride buyer, he was a car owner/driver. The definition of a ride buyer vs a owner/driver is whether they provide an entry that would not have existed before (owner/driver) or whether they bought their way into a ride that already existed and could have gone to a driver on merit. Guys who start their own teams who have existed since the beginning of the sport are not ride buyers.

True there were always actual ride buyers but buying a ride from a existing team was not common and it is generally considered the first of the modern era ride buyers was Eddie Miller about 1975, a FF champion who bought a ride at Indy and proceeded to flip into the infield snakepit area inside the first turn, over the spectator fence into the crowd area on one of his very first laps in the car. Fortunately nobody was there to get hit but on qualifying day (pre IRL when people actually went) it would have been a disaster.

Miller was considered to be the first ride buyer in the manner we came to know them in the latter part of the 20th century. Under that definition Buzz wasn't a ride buyer because it was a family team, in the same manner as Spike Gelhausen.

Very good points Bufe, and about Crawford in particular. I certainly didn't mean to tarnish Ray Crawford. Most here are probably going "Who the f--- are these old dudes?" ;), but for anyone interested, while hardly a front line driver, I've never heard disparaging remarks about Crawford's driving. The fact that here was the owner of a chain of markets, out there running Indy and the Mexican Road Race was probably enough to earn other driver's respect. If that wasn't enough, he flew a fighter in combat in Europe during WWII. Big ones, eh Bufe?.

So, my apologies for lumping Ray Crawford in with "ride buyers". He doesn't belong there.

I remember seeing footage of Eddie Miller's flight. I think he was one of the first Super Vee champs.

#375 Buford

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:49

My recollection was Miller was the SCCA Formula Ford Champion but had never driven anything any more powerful when he bought his way into an Indy Car. Yes We better stop discussing back in the days of real racing and let this thread go back to the topic level it was on before of "I like the pretty colors and I like it when the cars go zoom zoom." Wouldn't want to be wallowing in the past or anything lol.

#376 Keir

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 22:10

Buford,

..... but just as silly !!

#377 Jim Thurman

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 23:24

Originally posted by Buford
Yes We better stop discussing back in the days of real racing and let this thread go back to the topic level it was on before of "I like the pretty colors and I like it when the cars go zoom zoom." Wouldn't want to be wallowing in the past or anything lol.

:lol:

#378 MonzaOne

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 03:13

Originally posted by Buford
No Ray Crawford was not a ride buyer, he was a car owner/driver. The definition of a ride buyer vs a owner/driver is whether they provide an entry that would not have existed before (owner/driver) or whether they bought their way into a ride that already existed and could have gone to a driver on merit. Guys who start their own teams who have existed since the beginning of the sport are not ride buyers.

True there were always actual ride buyers but buying a ride from a existing team was not common and it is generally considered the first of the modern era ride buyers was Eddie Miller about 1975, a FF champion who bought a ride at Indy and proceeded to flip into the infield snakepit area inside the first turn, over the spectator fence into the crowd area on one of his very first laps in the car. Fortunately nobody was there to get hit but on qualifying day (pre IRL when people actually went) it would have been a disaster.

Miller was considered to be the first ride buyer in the manner we came to know them in the latter part of the 20th century. Under that definition Buzz wasn't a ride buyer because it was a family team, in the same manner as Spike Gelhausen. But Spike had to face real competition and Buzz had to face a scam job he was part of. TG was so cynical he thought the Indy 500 was bulletproof and the fans would still come and watch if they ran anybody in anything. Losing 1/4 of the attendance and 1/2 the TV audience shows him he was wrong.


There is no disgrace with buying a drive. As racing has become more expensive, while there are teams that may take anyone, the better teams that fall short of the budget required, welcome those good drivers with funding.

The great Niki Lauda for example, while the team had enough money, in I think 1972 paid MARCH 35,000 pound Sterling for his first drive in F1.

And that act alone may also demonstrate how dedicated a driver is because he may not come from a position of wealth and could have borrowed the money.

#379 Buford

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 03:52

Scott Pruitt took the money he made winning Trans Am and bought an Indy Car ride and is still racing for pay today. So it can have benefits to some with talent. But i am sure more drivers with talent lost out to ride buyers by far than made it starting out as a ride buyer.

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#380 red stick

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 19:26

Appears I picked the right two weeks to be on vacation. :D

In a time of very little news, Cavin had a few items, though they are more like guesses.

http://blogs.indysta..._for_a_day.html

I'm assuming the Birmingham facility he refers to is Barber Motorsports Park, which might make for an interesting weekend trip.

Happy New Year to all.

#381 Jim Thurman

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 08:41

In response to the quote:
"They (yes, including TG) tried handing it on a silver platter to Tony Stewart"

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker


I'd like to hear more about this.

Ok, skipping over the significant issue of being managed by an ESPN employee and overlooking those conflict of interest issues and plenty of other things, let's move directly to Stewart and the IRL.

Stewart tested first with Foyt, but with no formal announcement as to why or why not, he did not sign with Foyt. I predicted this as A.J.'s teams were not the most competitive ride. The pattern with those helped by ESPN was getting them top flight rides right away. While the Buick engine was unreliable, it had the most favorable rules ever for the '500' and, of course, with John Menard helming the team - it would be provide a good beginning and a better future for Tony.

It was even worse the next IRL season when Stewart got to do the first testing of new chassis, engine and tires...extensively, before anyone else.

That's what I refer to. Again, that's without even going into detail on all the ESPN machinations.

#382 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:04

I was slightly skeptical of your JG stories. I didn't doubt their accuracy but put them squarely in the "well, no one makes it alone" category, but since the advent of the current generation of NASCAR and super teams everywhere, not just at the 24, he suddenly looks like, well, just another competent racing driver.

#383 B Squared

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:28

The latest Castroneves update from this mornings Indystar: http://www.indystar....387/1004/SPORTS

Brian

#384 Buford

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:22

I recall when ESPN was pushing Jeff Gordon his main competition was Eric Gordon. Every bit as good as Jeff and gave him all he could handle and more. Of course Jeff had talent and was deserving of what happened to him but so was Eric who went absolutely nowhere. From my own racing experiences I could relate far more to Eric than Jeff. Talent often isn't close to being enough. Promotion and who you know is far more important.

#385 Rob

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:24

Originally posted by B Squared
The latest Castroneves update from this mornings Indystar: http://www.indystar....387/1004/SPORTS

Brian


Interesting candidates. Bourdais, Wilson and Hunter-Reay. If Bourdais is available then you'd think he'd be the prime target. Wilson is a proven talent, probably the best driver who is definitely without a drive. Hunter-Reay is an interesting one as well. I wonder if he would be the preferred choice of the American sponsors.

#386 B Squared

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:09

Off the top of my head, other than Emerson Fittipaldi coming to Team Penske with the Marlboro deal in 1990, I just don't think Mr. Penske hires drivers because of sponsor preferences. I'm sure I will now be enlightened to how wrong I am.

Brian

#387 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 13:45

If Bourdais is available, then it's not even close. As much as Wilson is likeable, he just lacks something to be a very top driver.

#388 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 14:23

Originally posted by red stick
Appears I picked the right two weeks to be on vacation. :D

In a time of very little news, Cavin had a few items, though they are more like guesses.

http://blogs.indysta..._for_a_day.html

I'm assuming the Birmingham facility he refers to is Barber Motorsports Park, which might make for an interesting weekend trip.

Happy New Year to all.


They tested at Barber (Birmingham) last year while developing the flappy paddle shifter. It's a beautiful track in a very nice part of the country. If you bring a lady friend leave her in Mtn Brook or Hoover and watch your bank account balance decrease....


CC

#389 Rob

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 14:28

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
If Bourdais is available, then it's not even close. As much as Wilson is likeable, he just lacks something to be a very top driver.


Well, with Bourdais you'd have to assume that it wouldn't be a long-term deal. Clearly he wants to be racing F1 and will be looking for a way back. Wilson won't be back in F1 so would be ideal if the Captain wanted someone to commit to the future.

#390 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 14:33

I will give you Million to One odds on Bourdais getting a second F1 career if he goes back to America.

#391 red stick

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 14:45

Originally posted by Crazy Canuck
They tested at Barber (Birmingham) last year while developing the flappy paddle shifter. It's a beautiful track in a very nice part of the country. If you bring a lady friend leave her in Mtn Brook or Hoover and watch your bank account balance decrease....
CC


I saw a Grand-Am race there a few years back and agree it's a beautiful facility. At the time it struck me as a little . . . tight for Indy cars.

#392 red stick

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 14:46

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I will give you Million to One odds on Bourdais getting a second F1 career if he goes back to America.


:lol:

Agreed. If he seems unloved now, I can imagine the reaction if he "gives up."

#393 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 17:00

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
If Bourdais is available...


If...that's the question.
I don't see Bourdais back here in the states even if he does lose his F1 seat, particularly in an oval centric role.

#394 Keir

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 17:28

Bourdais would be better served careerwise staying right where he's at, even if it means serving tea to the mechanics.

#395 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 17:44

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I will give you Million to One odds on Bourdais getting a second F1 career if he goes back to America.

I'll take a tenner on that :wave:

#396 sadler21

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 17:55

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
I'll take a tenner on that :wave:


...if you EVER get Million to One odds on ANYTHING, you take it. :up:

#397 qwazy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 21:45

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


If...that's the question.
I don't see Bourdais back here in the states even if he does lose his F1 seat, particularly in an oval centric role.


Well, that's silly. He's stated that he would come back... He's raced on ovals before and the guy's raced everything from IROC to RoC to Prototypes to Formula 1 to Champ Cars. I think he's enough of a racer to "deal" with the oval aspect of the calender.

You know, like the rest of the transition drivers.

#398 Risil

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 21:57

Originally posted by B Squared
Off the top of my head, other than Emerson Fittipaldi coming to Team Penske with the Marlboro deal in 1990, I just don't think Mr. Penske hires drivers because of sponsor preferences. I'm sure I will now be enlightened to how wrong I am.


Did Penske bring Emmo across at the behest of Philip Morris? I was a foetus when it was all happening, but I assumed that it was for the most part due to Fittipaldi schooling the 'works' outfit with a customer PC-18 in 1989. Surely he was the logical choice, instead of just a sop to the sponsors?

(Although I don't doubt that Marlboro had an active role in bringing them together, look at the formation of the Mclaren/Project 4 F1 team.)

#399 nissan_gtp

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 22:25

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
If Bourdais is available, then it's not even close. As much as Wilson is likeable, he just lacks something to be a very top driver.


In terms of racing talent, I agree 100%.

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#400 B Squared

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:19

"Did Penske bring Emmo across at the behest of Philip Morris? I was a foetus when it was all happening, but I assumed that it was for the most part due to Fittipaldi schooling the 'works' outfit with a customer PC-18 in 1989. Surely he was the logical choice, instead of just a sop to the sponsors? " Risil

The short version. IIRC. Fittipaldi & Marlboro were first associated at McLaren in F1 when he won the 1974 championship. Marlboro returned to IndyCar with Fittipaldi and Patrick in 1986. Emerson had joined Patrick in 1985. For 1989, Pat Patrick was able to secure a a new Penske chassis from friend & competitor Roger Penske. Part of the payback for this new chassis from RP was that with Patrick selling his team to Chip Ganassi after the '89 season, the Fittipaldi/ Marlboro partnership would move over to Team Penske. My understanding has always been that this was a very strong driver/ sponsor pairing.

I can get into magazines of the period for more detailed info if needed.

Brian