28 replies to this topic

[ghinzani]

I read in an old Autosport Penske were near to completing their Penske PC8 Can-am cars at the end of '79, but that the change in rules to handicap the 3 litre racing engines forced them to adandon the project. Did they ever get completed? Did they run ever? and more importantly what were they based on - PC7 Indycars or earlier F1 Penskes? I assume by this time the former as ground effect was all the rage.

[Tony Matthews]

Here is an 'artists impression' I made of the PC8 in 1979, based on, I think, actual body panels placed on trestles, not sitting on a chassis. I don't know if a chassis was ever completed, the Penske race shop in Upton wasn't that big and I didn't see anything that looked like the correct tub. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, others will know better than me!

Good looking, wasn't it!

[Michael Clark]

Tony, when creating an artist's impression of a car never built, did you simply choose a colour - in this case dark blue - or was it based on inside knowledge?

[Tony Matthews]

Do you know Michael - I really can't remember. I like blue, a colour rarely seen in UK skies, but it may be that I said to Nick Goozee - "What do you reckon? Blue?" To which he may well have replied - "Yes, blue!" On the other hand I may have a flash-back tonight, in which case I'll let you know.

[swede917]

Funny I remember this, don't think Penske ever ran a car. SCCA who ran the Can Am series at the time grew afraid of Penske coming into the series with an "Unfair Advantage" and therefore changed the rules for 3 liter race engines making them run the same weight as the 5 litre Chevy powered cars. Though I'm sure Carl Haas had some influnce over this decision.

One reason I remember is we were building a Eagle F5000 car with a DFV in it to run the series at the same time. AAR's 1974 F5000 car was built to run both a Chevy and a DFV having mounts for both. Peter Papke who owned the car had some body panels made to fit, 3 New DFV's and was going to run the 1980 season, however when SCCA changed the rules his backers withdrew and the car never ran, other than starting the engine. However the car did run without the full body at a Watkins Glen Vintage event in or around 1998 with a DFV installed.







Sorry for the poor quality pictures.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews

Here is an 'artists impression' I made of the PC8 in 1979, based on, I think, actual body panels placed on trestles, not sitting on a chassis. I don't know if a chassis was ever completed, the Penske race shop in Upton wasn't that big and I didn't see anything that looked like the correct tub. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, others will know better than me!

Good looking, wasn't it! [/B]

As an aside Tony do you know if Penske are still down there? Have'nt been over to Poole for ages but I generally have a nose when I do go there.

Does anyone know what the chassis was based on? ie ground effect PC7 or Flat bottom PC4?

[B Squared]

Certain visual aspects of the center nose area and of the cockpit surround bodywork, gives a hint of the look of the PC7. To my untrained eye anyway.

Brian

[Andretti Fan]

I have to agree Brian. The area around the cockpit looks alot like the Penske Indy cars.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Andretti Fan
I have to agree Brian. The area around the cockpit looks alot like the Penske Indy cars.

I think I would agree with that - if so then I wonder if the tubs became customer PC7s later.

[Tony Matthews]

Originally posted by ghinzani


As an aside Tony do you know if Penske are still down there?

I have tried - not desperately hard I'll admit - to contact the unit - 4, Factory Road, Upton Industrial Estate if I'm not mistaken - to no avail, the phone rings forever and 118118 gives the old number for that address. John Travis is in contact with some of the team and I shall be seeing him before Christmas so may learn more.

[swede917]

Would they would have based it on the Indy Car? It was heavier, used Indy tires which would not have been as effective as the F1 tires, used a GBX that would have been over kill & heavy, overall it
would have been hard to get the Indy Car down to their weight rule adavantage.

Seems like the F1 car which was made to run with a DFV would have been the obvious choice.

[Tim C 27]

I think the picture suggests that it shares a lot of parts with the PC9 Indycar of 1980 - the area around the cockpit and the wide, flat nose.

I would like to know if the company was still around in Poole - I went several times as a kid - Nick Goozee and his team were a great bunch of people.

Tim

[ghinzani]

Were any Can-Am of the modern post 77 era run with 3 litre racing engines prior to Jom Crawford and his Ensign in 82?

From what I heard today at a funeral today I think Penske have gone from Poole - one of the guys there worked there when it was Mcraes and before and said he thought all the Penske guys had gone. If I see the Geoff Ferris down at Clay I will ask him - hes always wandering round with his Penske jacket on.

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by ghinzani
Were any Can-Am of the modern post 77 era run with 3 litre racing engines prior to Jom Crawford and his Ensign in 82?

Val Musetti in Colin Bennett's March 811. Also, one race for the Lola T-610 driven by Jim Adams for Carl Haas/Cooke-Woods Racing.
Tom

[Mallory Dan]

Didn't Alain de Cad race one of his DFV Sportscars occasionally, and a Gulf Mirage rings a bell too. I'm sure Allen's site will confirm.

[RA Historian]

Don't confuse Can Am II with the Camel GT......

Tom

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Didn't Alain de Cad race one of his DFV Sportscars occasionally, and a Gulf Mirage rings a bell too. I'm sure Allen's site will confirm.

I make you right , wasnt it called the Britsh Stamps special or similar?? The Gulf couldnt run because it was a Turbo though I think.

[swede917]

Originally posted by ghinzani


I make you right , wasnt it called the Britsh Stamps special or similar?? The Gulf couldnt run because it was a Turbo though I think.

Riverside 1978 Picture here: http://www.racingspo...8-10-15-004.jpg

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by ghinzani
The Gulf couldnt run because it was a Turbo though I think.

The Mirage, while built by John Wyer, was usually powered by the Ford Cosworth V-8. There also was a Mirage chassis with a BRM V-12. I believe the only Mirage powered by a turbo was the last of the line when owned by Harley Cluxton, the M-12 with a Renault V-6. But that was aimed squarely at Le Mans.

In 1975, the same year Mirage won Le Mans with the M-8, Cluxton ran a Mirage M-7 for Vern Schuppan in the Road America 252 Handicap, a free standing race scheduled by the track to fill the date on its calendar vacated by the defunct Can Am series. Schuppan won the race in the Ford Cosworth powered car.

Tom

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by RA Historian
The Mirage, while built by John Wyer, was usually powered by the Ford Cosworth V-8. There also was a Mirage chassis with a BRM V-12. I believe the only Mirage powered by a turbo was the last of the line when owned by Harley Cluxton, the M-12 with a Renault V-6. But that was aimed squarely at Le Mans.

In 1975, the same year Mirage won Le Mans with the M-8, Cluxton ran a Mirage M-7 for Vern Schuppan in the Road America 252 Handicap, a free standing race scheduled by the track to fill the date on its calendar vacated by the defunct Can Am series. Schuppan won the race in the Ford Cosworth powered car.

Tom

According to Autosports of the time it was the Renault engined car Cluxton wanted to run but they said no.

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by ghinzani
According to Autosports of the time it was the Renault engined car Cluxton wanted to run but they said no.

Thanks Ghinzani, that makes sense since I believe that the M-12 Renault car of Cluxton that was the only turbo engined Mirage.
Tom

[raceannouncer2003]

Originally posted by ghinzani
Were any Can-Am of the modern post 77 era run with 3 litre racing engines prior to Jom Crawford and his Ensign in 82?

Also, Gary Gove in Williams FW07B #FW07/06 in 1981...photo link here:

http://www.racingspo...1-06-28-052.jpg

Vince H.

[arttidesco]

The Mirage, while built by John Wyer, was usually powered by the Ford Cosworth V-8. There also was a Mirage chassis with a BRM V-12. I believe the only Mirage powered by a turbo was the last of the line when owned by Harley Cluxton, the M-12 with a Renault V-6. But that was aimed squarely at Le Mans.

In 1975, the same year Mirage won Le Mans with the M-8, Cluxton ran a Mirage M-7 for Vern Schuppan in the Road America 252 Handicap, a free standing race scheduled by the track to fill the date on its calendar vacated by the defunct Can Am series. Schuppan won the race in the Ford Cosworth powered car.

Tom

Was trawling TNF for some unrelated information, IIANM the Mirage M6 was powered by a Weslake V12, as used in the Grand Prix Eagle rather than the BRM V12.

Nice to see drawings of the Penske and Eagle Can Am 2 challengers

[RA Historian]

There was a Mirage at the Road America Historics around 1990 or so that did have a BRM V-12 in it. Cannot tell you the M number off hand, have it somewhere, but the urge to dig through mounds of stuff is not there right now!

[Red Socks]

M6 603 has a Weslake V12.

[RA Historian]

It was at the Road America Historics in July, 1990, that a Mirage M7 coupe was present with a BRM V-12 installed. I have two photos that I took of the engine in the car, and another of the car at speed.
Tom

[Marc Sproule]

I always thought that Gove's Williams FW07B-based 3 liter Can Am car was the best looking and sounding of the "new era" cars.

http://www.flickr.co...157623311345506

This car is all the more poignant presently with the recent passing of Pete Lovely, Gary's backer for many years.

[E1pix]

I always thought that Gove's Williams FW07B-based 3 liter Can Am car was the best looking and sounding of the "new era" cars.

http://www.flickr.co...157623311345506

This car is all the more poignant presently with the recent passing of Pete Lovely, Gary's backer for many years.

Great car, great shot.... I know that spot!

[E1pix]

Here is an 'artists impression' I made of the PC8 in 1979, based on, I think, actual body panels placed on trestles, not sitting on a chassis. I don't know if a chassis was ever completed, the Penske race shop in Upton wasn't that big and I didn't see anything that looked like the correct tub. That doesn't mean there wasn't one, others will know better than me!

Good looking, wasn't it!

Most impressive to me, that is one beautiful piece of art, Tony.

If I'm not mistaken, I think I saw it in print at the time, in Racecar magazine, or Autoweek, or the like.