169 replies to this topic

[BuzzingHornet]

The front and rear wings both look completely stupid, and make the cars look ridiculous.

I understand the thinking behind changing the aero but couldnt therebe a more aethetically pleasing way to do it..?

[JesseFriz]

Just shut up about the looks until we see some damn racing.

[Poltergeistes]

i'm agaisn't taking off all the aero work just because of the seconds the car will be slower per lap, i would love to see full aero work with those slick tyres... the problem of course was some teams (toyota) leaving way too much turbulance on purpose for the following car.

it would be wonderful if we could have the good part of the aero, the one that makes YOUR car faster, and get rid of the one that is only there to cause hell for the car that's following yours.

[Ali_G]

People are bitching about the high rear wings.

This was never a complaint pre 1995 when the wings were the same height as they will be for 2009.

[stevvy1986]

what would you rather have?pretty cars but rubbish racing,or not so nice looking cars,and fantastic racing?i know which i'd choose!

[noikeee]

Originally posted by stevvy1986
what would you rather have?pretty cars but rubbish racing,or not so nice looking cars,and fantastic racing?i know which i'd choose!

Yep.

Tbh looking at a grid of 20 of these beasts all together is going to look a bit awkward. But we'll get over it.

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by stevvy1986
what would you rather have?pretty cars but rubbish racing,or not so nice looking cars,and fantastic racing?i know which i'd choose!

It's a bit premature to call it "fantastic racing", but not premature to call the cars ugly.

[craftverk]

Originally posted by Ali_G
People are bitching about the high rear wings.

This was never a complaint pre 1995 when the wings were the same height as they will be for 2009.

But it's how narrow they are that bugs me, if they were the same width as last year's rear wings, it'd be a considerable improvement.

[alg7_munif]

Originally posted by stevvy1986
what would you rather have?pretty cars but rubbish racing,or not so nice looking cars,and fantastic racing?i know which i'd choose!

Fantastic racing is not guaranteed yet, I prefer pretty cars without racing than ugly, hideous and shitty looking cars but also without improvement in term of racing.

[Arion]

am I the only one who think racing was pretty good last season? and the cars are pretty

[Craven Morehead]

Originally posted by Poltergeistes
i'm agaisn't taking off all the aero work just because of the seconds the car will be slower per lap, i would love to see full aero work with those slick tyres... the problem of course was some teams (toyota) leaving way too much turbulance on purpose for the following car.

it would be wonderful if we could have the good part of the aero, the one that makes YOUR car faster, and get rid of the one that is only there to cause hell for the car that's following yours.

you can bet the farm that ALL the teams were maximizing turbulance for following cars as a part of the design proccess, not just Toyota.

[Lazy Prodigy]

They dont look so bad much like the cars from a decade ago http://forums.autosp...490#post3446490

[ruby soho]

esthetics has nothing to do with racing

[Jedi_F1]

first we have only seen 1 2009 car
second I don't find the Ferrari F60 ugly,
on contrary I think she's beautifull... I'm getting used of the smaller high wings at the back and bigger front wings... maybe it's because of that.. let's see if the BMW will be different???

It's about tastes? because I didn't like all those little wings on the cars in the past who where on the car everywhere you could possible imagine.. it's like you overtuning a car too much so it's not beautifull anymore.
No no I prefer these cars instead and you'll see you get used to the look ...

About the racing,
the great races of last year where all because there was an extra factor that happened: rain, safety cars, pit incidents,...
I can think of : Brazil, Belgium, Singapore, Italy, Great Britain, Canada, Germany, Japan, ....
it was not that there was some exciting racing on normal good weather moments

[Bos]

I think with the older cars we were distracted a bit by the wider rear tyres (maybe just the really old cars) or maybe the the sparks from the undertray scraping the ground ...which I WANT to see again...badly

Or maybe we didn't mind back then because we knew/thought those wings were the ultimate of racing technology, whereas now, we know that this shape is a dumbed down version and no longer on the edge of what's technically possible.

Actually I feel exactly that way about engines. With the V8's as skinny as they are, the only thing exciting about them was when, for example, when McLaren was revving them beyond 20k rpm in 2006. Watching onboards at Monza, you KNOW the engine was straining. And now, I know they're capable of at least 20k, but the rules are limiting them to 18k, and even further in the future (without modification to the stroke). I understand Max and FOTA are cutting costs in areas that make no difference for the viewer. I might be a small minority, but it makes a difference for me. It's more exciting to know that an engine is being pushed and can blow at any time. If it looks too contrived and safe, I just end up falling asleep.

A little OT sorry

[AlexS]

I think they are horrible specially the front wing.

[Beamer]

Originally posted by BuzzingHornet
The 2009 cars are really seriously ugly.

no it (as we've only seen one!) isn't.

[stevvy1986]

those who are saying we havent been guaranteed fantastic racing yet,i was speaking hypothetically,in the sense that if the new regs do give us fantastic racing,i'd be a helluva lot more bothered about that than if the cars were ugly,because if the racing is good,who cares how ugly the cars are?yes,nice looking F1 cars are nice,but people watch F1 to see great racing, not to sit there n say 'oooo thats a pretty car isnt it'

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Bos
...now, we know that this shape is a dumbed down version and no longer on the edge of what's technically possible.

Actually I feel exactly that way about engines. With the V8's as skinny as they are, the only thing exciting about them was when, for example, when McLaren was revving them beyond 20k rpm in 2006...

BMW too.

Great post, and I completely agree. F1 needs to cut costs but at the same time it needs to be at the bleeding edge of technology with wriggle room in the rules to allow a bit of flair for the engineers.

Still, the cars look unusual to our eyes today but hopefully with improved overtaking prospects we'll be happier bunnies.

[Rinehart]

Whoever it was that said they would prefer pretty cars with poor racing to ugly cars with fantastic racing really should consider tickets to the Milan Fashion Week instead of following F1.

[undersquare]

To me they look as though they're designed to scrape something off the road, with a little handle on the back . The rear wing would have been OK if had been EITHER high OR narrow, but both is a problem IMO.

But if there's any overtaking at Barca it'll have been worth it.

[stevvy1986]

Originally posted by undersquare
But if there's any overtaking at Barca it'll have been worth it.

Valencia even more so!

[SeanValen]

It was about time we got some ugly cars, sometimes you need a break from always expecting beauty, if they looked good all time, it would be boring maybe, perhaps things need to get worse for 2009 looks wise, before they get better again later, f1 never sleeps anyway, f1 is always changing, love it, hate it,it's what we got. Different is better, but don't mean I like the cars, but it's good to see perhaps how f1 still drags you in, even if you don't like the look of the cars, you'll still watch anyway, they've changed rules, you'll still need to look, that's why I welcome ugly cars, the slick tyres though are not ugly, their the best thing about 2009, forget the cars, this season is about slick tyres, and our hope they influence something, the hope of slick tyres vs aero.

The sport has been messed up enough anyhow, now it's about how to bring back the past, while still being slow on changes to the extreme, celebrate small victories like Slick tyres, as I remember fans on this board were dreaming of this moment, of their return for years, their the stars of 2009.

HAIL SLICK TYRES.

[Garagiste]

I recall how odd looking the Ford Sierra was when it was launched, we'll get used to them in no time.

[wingwalker]

I don't think people mind height of the rear wing anywhere as much as narrowness of it. As I said, it looks like someone cut out the mid part of front wing and attached at the back of the car, it doesn't feel like a piece of the same car. Oh well. If it improves racing, I'm all for it.

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Garagiste
I recall how odd looking the Ford Sierra was when it was launched, we'll get used to them in no time.

I never got used to the Fiat Strada or Multipla though...

[Muzzinho]

Boo-Hoo the cars are ugly......

Get over yourselves you bunch of girls. Ive never seen a forum full of such whingers as this one.

Besides it doesnt matter what the car looks like, Lewis Shamilton will make it worse. Haha.
Shamiltons goin down this year.

[Jakob]

Originally posted by Beamer


no it (as we've only seen one!) isn't.

We have already seen the hybrid BMW, Honda and Williams and I can assure you, the final cars aren't going to look any better. It's the narrow rear wing and the oversized front wing that make them look so bad from certain angles, and those aren't going to go away.

[lukywill]

change is never easy for some people.

great!

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by Ali_G
People are bitching about the high rear wings.

This was never a complaint pre 1995 when the wings were the same height as they will be for 2009.

Not even close.
http://farm1.static....0ad045f.jpg?v=0
But lets watch them race first.

[pUs]

I like the look of the 2009 cars already. Nice and sleek. We'll get used to the high and narrow rear wings, I think.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Muzzinho
Besides it doesnt matter what the car looks like, Lewis Shamilton will make it worse. Haha.
Shamiltons goin down this year.

Oh what a clever play on words

Funny how some are so obsessed that they have to start a bash in every thread no matter how unrelated it is.

[Tony Mandara]

10 years ago saw the introduction of narrow track cars and grooved tires,

"UGLY!!!"

screamed everyone when comparing them to the '97 cars, and quite rightly too!
But compare the '97 car to the '08, and tell me which is a thing of beauty, and which looks like a box on wheels! The ugly duckling (almost!) always turns into the swan.
For a good example, when the "New Vokswagen Golf" was unveiled a few years back in the '90s, it looked plain and boring, but by the time the R32 version came along (2001?) it was a much better looking car altogether, even the base models.
So let's give the new "Snowplough" cars a chance. Let's see how they race first. I'm sure the overall look, or at least our perception of it, will change subtlety over time, or quickly, if 90% of the field have to come in at the end of the first lap for a new front wing! Besides, those formula one chappies are quite an industrious group. The cars might not be asthetically pleasing at the moment, but we'll get used to them (albeit possibly slowly!!).

Tony.

[B Squared]

Not too big on how the cars look, but that will pass. What is sad, to me, is that there was for so many years a mix of car designs that reflected many interpretations of the available rulebook, so you had varying degrees of "beauty" or "ugly" up & down the grid. Now the cars all look so similar, you see one basic design, and that basic configuration is what we see all season. Too much of a spec feel to it all anymore - at least to me.

Brian

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Tony Mandara

But compare the '97 car to the '08, and tell me which is a thing of beauty.

So the '08 car is a modern styling update rather like the BMW Mini, the Volkswagen Beetle and Fiat 500? Just like the old ones only without cross-ply tyres, cassette player and distributor cap? Suddenly, I'm beginning to like!

[Viktor]

I have to say that from what we have seen so far of the 2009 cars, e.g. the F60, the cars will be beautiful, very beautiful.

/Viktor

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by Bos
I think with the older cars we were distracted a bit by the wider rear tyres (maybe just the really old cars) or maybe the the sparks from the undertray scraping the ground ...which I WANT to see again...badly

Or maybe we didn't mind back then because we knew/thought those wings were the ultimate of racing technology, whereas now, we know that this shape is a dumbed down version and no longer on the edge of what's technically possible.

Actually I feel exactly that way about engines. With the V8's as skinny as they are, the only thing exciting about them was when, for example, when McLaren was revving them beyond 20k rpm in 2006. Watching onboards at Monza, you KNOW the engine was straining. And now, I know they're capable of at least 20k, but the rules are limiting them to 18k, and even further in the future (without modification to the stroke). I understand Max and FOTA are cutting costs in areas that make no difference for the viewer. I might be a small minority, but it makes a difference for me. It's more exciting to know that an engine is being pushed and can blow at any time. If it looks too contrived and safe, I just end up falling asleep.

A little OT sorry

I agree absolutely.
The cars should be at the limit, both of technology and of their operation.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by B Squared
Not too big on how the cars look, but that will pass. What is sad, to me, is that there was for so many years a mix of car designs that reflected many interpretations of the available rulebook, so you had varying degrees of "beauty" or "ugly" up & down the grid. Now the cars all look so similar, you see one basic design, and that basic configuration is what we see all season. Too much of a spec feel to it all anymore - at least to me.

Brian

We should at least wait until some more cars are unveiled. We might be surprised to other teams interpretations of the new spec.

[Muzzinho]

Clatter is right.

All my sources from Red Bull says Newey has come up with something different which is a potential race winner and may be the dominant car of the season.

[B Squared]

"We should at least wait until some more cars are unveiled. We might be surprised to other teams interpretations of the new spec." Clatter

I would be thrilled to be proven wrong.

Brian

[Nonesuch]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
The cars should be at the limit, both of technology and of their operation.

That has always been a big part of the appeal for me as well, though it's probably going to be hard to uphold that argument when looking at the last, say, fifteen years. In more ways than one, technology in F1 has been limited and development restricted during those years. However, it's becoming clear that these new regulations could prove an even bigger restriction and, arguably, dumbing down. Which is quite disappointing.

[Tony Mandara]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
So the '08 car is a modern styling update rather like the BMW Mini, the Volkswagen Beetle and Fiat 500? Just like the old ones only without cross-ply tyres, cassette player and distributor cap? Suddenly, I'm beginning to like!

Well, it wasn't really about styling, so maybe the "road car" comparison was not the best example! The '98 cars and the '08 cars (chassis-wise) were built to, more or less, the same technical specifications, which was quite massively removed from the '97 specs, when the front wing on the narrow track cars was raised they, again, looked weird. IMO the "Jesus Christ! What a Minger!" factor counts for a lot here, but I'm sure we'll get over it.

Tony.

[GerardF1]

After we see a race or two the style of the cars will be unimportant.

in 98 when the new narrow cars came out - they were as fugly as you could get - universially denounced.

Now that the new cars are out people are screaming for the old "ugly" cars

[topski100]

If when looking at the F60, you take the wings out of the equation, and look simply at the tidied-up chassis, minus the flicks and winglets, it actualy looks very nice - in my opinion, so it's not all bad.

But I'll tell you one thing about the '09 Ferrari, it's still has the unmistakable look of a racing car, which I'm already getting used to. You wouldn't think though, reading this forum..

[MichaelPM]

Originally posted by paranoik0


Yep.

Tbh looking at a grid of 20 of these beasts all together is going to look a bit awkward. But we'll get over it.

Awkward is the best description I have heard yet for these new designs.

If they can now follow each other through Turkey's turn 8 the fugliness will be justified, if not they should of just forced a monza style rear wing for all tracks.

[Slowinfastout]

Give me more ugly cars... F1 should have a mid-term plan of some sort to bring back 20-plus car grids... give the team one garage space for 2 cars or something.. and make the most of the existing facilities... less people, less bling, more drivers, more cars..

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by GerardF1
After we see a race or two the style of the cars will be unimportant.

in 98 when the new narrow cars came out - they were as fugly as you could get - universially denounced.

Now that the new cars are out people are screaming for the old "ugly" cars

It's just 'change' that's a bit scary. The problem with both times you mention is that the tech changes dumbed down the formula. It wasn't just a design change but a move to ban this or spec that and restrict something else. At both times, I think the appearance was just used an excuse to deride what the new (unwanted) rules had created.

[irish_sean69]

Originally posted by Clatter


Oh what a clever play on words

Funny how some are so obsessed that they have to start a bash in every thread no matter how unrelated it is.

agreed

[Barramut]

The car simply reflects the personallity of the [technical] ruler of F1.

The cars are ugly?
Have you ever been asked about how the cars should look like.
How to make it more atractive?
Would you buy [more] posters, toys or miniatures of it?
How the look would benefit F1?

Do team managers/owners agree with the new look?
Sir Frank complained that the new wings gives less space for advertising [square cm], which means less revenue for the teams.
The technical option for reducing downforce would be a narrow rear wing in a higher position ou lower wing with the same width.

Max Mosley expects unanimous decisions from teams to demote him from his own ideas.
What are the chances?
It happened once, for the first time ever, this year.
I bet the teams made a set up before voting.

And KERS? Who cares about KERS...

Who elected this guy anyway?
The same ones that makes us drive slower?
It's a contradicion, isn't it?

F1 is marketing and entertainment and should be managed by a professional of the area.
FIA is miles away from NBA, NFL or the Premier League.

[irish_sean69]

Originally posted by Clatter


We should at least wait until some more cars are unveiled. We might be surprised to other teams interpretations of the new spec.

Now that would be interesting a different team at the front. even if there car is not a race winner they have been one of the most imporved team in F1 iver the last few years