Jump to content


Photo

The 2009 cars are really seriously ugly (merged)


  • Please log in to reply
169 replies to this topic

#51 lukywill

lukywill
  • Member

  • 6,660 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:57

Originally posted by Barramut

FIA is miles away from NBA, NFL or the Premier League.


thank god! :cool:

Advertisement

#52 pUs

pUs
  • Member

  • 2,543 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 13 January 2009 - 13:18

Originally posted by Viktor
I have to say that from what we have seen so far of the 2009 cars, e.g. the F60, the cars will be beautiful, very beautiful.

/Viktor


Agreed, I can't wait to see the rest of the designs. :love:

#53 Hippo

Hippo
  • Member

  • 2,378 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 13 January 2009 - 13:22

Both the BMW hybrid and the F60 are indeed ugly imho. We'll see how the others may look. I don't expect them to be beauties either. But for what it's worth, there's at least the chance of us getting more exciting races. Although I'm not too sure about that one. We had some very exciting racing last year, but instead of celebrating it some people spoiled it with all their whining, bitching and politics.

What's my point? Well, I'm constantly being told that I "will eventually get used to the new design". I don't think so. But I hope people will get used to real racing. Otherwise the whole ordeal will be for nothing.

#54 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 January 2009 - 13:32

If it's not really easier to overtake I wonder what's the next step after this series of measures... make the rear wing even higher and narrower and the front wing even wider? :p

Scary trend hehe...

#55 wingwalker

wingwalker
  • Member

  • 6,326 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 13 January 2009 - 14:28

Originally posted by Muzzinho
Clatter is right.

All my sources from Red Bull says Newey has come up with something different which is a potential race winner and may be the dominant car of the season.



...again.

#56 4MEN

4MEN
  • Member

  • 1,556 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 13 January 2009 - 14:50

Originally posted by Lazarus II

It's a bit premature to call it "fantastic racing", but not premature to call the cars ugly.

:up:

#57 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 13,617 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 13 January 2009 - 15:04

Originally posted by Hippo
Both the BMW hybrid and the F60 are indeed ugly imho. We'll see how the others may look. I don't expect them to be beauties either. But for what it's worth, there's at least the chance of us getting more exciting races. Although I'm not too sure about that one. We had some very exciting racing last year, but instead of celebrating it some people spoiled it with all their whining, bitching and politics.


Okay, setting aside the wet races, and the two safety car/pit window afflicted events, which exciting races were there? Possibly Spa even without the rain, and Fuji wasn't terrible. But it's a gross act of self-deception to believe there wasn't anything seriously wrong with the wing specs in 2008, in terms of promoting exciting racing.

#58 skid solo

skid solo
  • Member

  • 2,117 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 13 January 2009 - 15:07

Originally posted by Hippo
Both the BMW hybrid and the F60 are indeed ugly imho. We'll see how the others may look. I don't expect them to be beauties either.


I was pleasantly surprised by the f60 at the launch, but then seeing it on track, it just looks out of proportion. I would imagine just like in 98 that Newey will find a way to make them look balanced and go like stink!
The old adage of if it looks right it usually goes right doesn't bode well for Ferrari!

#59 Hippo

Hippo
  • Member

  • 2,378 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 13 January 2009 - 16:08

Originally posted by Risil


Okay, setting aside the wet races, and the two safety car/pit window afflicted events, which exciting races were there?

I don't know why you quote me for this. I wrote there was "some very exciting racing". I was not pretending there was much.

My point was, that the exciting racing we had was actually causing some people to go riot amongst the stewards, on the forums, in the press/media and even in some interviews. On some retarded German board people are still going ballistic about the first corner excitement in Fuji. I just wonder if these people who couldn't accept it in 08 can actually handle the promised racing excitement in 09. Because if they can't it will only be a very long drama.

So in summary: cars are definitely ugly, while the racing excitement is only a promise so far.

Advertisement

#60 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,666 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 January 2009 - 19:00

problem is we have had series with ugly cars and good racing. just look at IRL, and to lesser extent CART.

and the fia arent fit for purpose either tbh

so there are some concerns

#61 Barramut

Barramut
  • Member

  • 930 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 13 January 2009 - 19:47

Sir Frank must be displeased with the new regs.
If his drivers already destroyed so many wings last year.
Now that it is bigger, it will be an even bigger loss. :p

#62 BullHead

BullHead
  • Member

  • 6,695 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 14 January 2009 - 00:45

2009 cars = beautiful. Bring back the early 90s! :clap:

#63 hsvone

hsvone
  • Member

  • 1,079 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 14 January 2009 - 02:15

Well I predict carnage at the first corners of nearly every race. How will they avoid each others 'snowplough' front wings. And as for Monaco. :drunk:

Clumsy is the one word I use to describe the 2009 look. Still after watching the youtube clip of the F60 they don't look so bad in motion.

First post of 2009! :smoking:

#64 GerardF1

GerardF1
  • Member

  • 690 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 14 January 2009 - 04:12

Originally posted by hsvone
Well I predict carnage at the first corners of nearly every race. How will they avoid each others 'snowplough' front wings. And as for Monaco. :drunk:

Clumsy is the one word I use to describe the 2009 look. Still after watching the youtube clip of the F60 they don't look so bad in motion.

First post of 2009! :smoking:


They managed to race years ago with the shovel spoliers - mostly on Tyrells - without they getting knocked off at every start.

They are supposed to be professionals -- well most are

I sure there will be sone early season clashes but it should settle down quickly

#65 rileyl

rileyl
  • Member

  • 461 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 14 January 2009 - 04:51

Originally posted by Bos
I think with the older cars we were distracted a bit by the wider rear tyres (maybe just the really old cars) or maybe the the sparks from the undertray scraping the ground :love: ...which I WANT to see again...badly :love: :love: :love:

Or maybe we didn't mind back then because we knew/thought those wings were the ultimate of racing technology, whereas now, we know that this shape is a dumbed down version and no longer on the edge of what's technically possible.

Actually I feel exactly that way about engines. With the V8's as skinny as they are, the only thing exciting about them was when, for example, when McLaren was revving them beyond 20k rpm in 2006. Watching onboards at Monza, you KNOW the engine was straining. And now, I know they're capable of at least 20k, but the rules are limiting them to 18k, and even further in the future (without modification to the stroke). I understand Max and FOTA are cutting costs in areas that make no difference for the viewer. I might be a small minority, but it makes a difference for me. It's more exciting to know that an engine is being pushed and can blow at any time. If it looks too contrived and safe, I just end up falling asleep.

A little OT sorry :blush:


Great Post~
I am against that too! You just can't limit somebody with a performance edge under the same rules! F1 is about extreme technology! Just imagine if FIFA limit the budget for Real or Man U or AC Millan to buy players and even limit their training time! It doesn't make sense and not fair for some teams which has a performance advantage to stand still and let the ones who are in disadvantage to modify for catch up!

#66 Pingguest

Pingguest
  • Member

  • 395 posts
  • Joined: December 05

Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:09

Last year I thought the cars looked ugly and it couldn't be much worse. Sadly though, the OWG proved me otherwise: cars could be made even uglier.

#67 vanfriends

vanfriends
  • Member

  • 83 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:54

They don't look too bad at all, actually, they look rather beautiful. The Ferrari does at least, and the old Williams with new wings did.

#68 ascoli

ascoli
  • Member

  • 138 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:21

Originally posted by Pingguest
Last year I thought the cars looked ugly and it couldn't be much worse. Sadly though, the OWG proved me otherwise: cars could be made even uglier.


Are you sure that 2008 looks better than 2009? No contest in my opinion.

http://www.mschumach...F2008vsF60.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.2.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.3.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.4.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.5.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.6.html

#69 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,834 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:28

Losing all that clutter off the bodywork makes that Ferrari look MUCH nicer to me.

Granted the rear wing looks a bit small and a bit high but we WILL get used to that.

However, I just cannot take to that big shovel on the front! :( It just seems unnecessarily wide - and will get run over by other cars because the driver, no matter how experienced, will always want to put his nose in and that's where the trouble will start.

Why they felt that should make them as wide as the front tyres, I will never understand.

Overall though, I think what we have seen so far is a clean, smooth, purposeful piece of kit.

#70 alfista

alfista
  • Member

  • 996 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:39

It's like an old Chines proverb - no matter what colour the cat has if it can catch mice. Yes, new cars are ugly but if it is good for racing then let it be so. I think one of the ugliest F1 cars world has seen was Ferrari 312 T4 from 1979. But
a) it won the Championship
b) that season was one of the most interesting ever
c) T4 was involved in the very best duel F1 have produced (Villeneuve vs Arnoux @ Dijon).
Concerning 2009 - have anybody else had this kind of thoughts?
Posted Image

#71 Ploert

Ploert
  • Member

  • 534 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:41

I'm glad the get rid of the disgusting anvil wings. I really hated those.

#72 GlobalGP.net

GlobalGP.net
  • New Member

  • 15 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 14 January 2009 - 11:25

I actually think the cars look alright, apart from the front wings. Kinda reminds me of the early 90's. Also its nice to see some slicks on the cars. Groves made the cars look not so cutting edge.

#73 craftverk

craftverk
  • Member

  • 2,810 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 14 January 2009 - 12:58

Originally posted by ascoli


Are you sure that 2008 looks better than 2009? No contest in my opinion.

http://www.mschumach...F2008vsF60.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.2.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.3.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.4.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.5.html
http://www.mschumach...008vsF60.6.html

No contest, last year's F2008 looks better. Everything is in proportion.

#74 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 8,875 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 14 January 2009 - 13:07

Originally posted by GerardF1
After we see a race or two the style of the cars will be unimportant.

in 98 when the new narrow cars came out - they were as fugly as you could get - universially denounced.

Now that the new cars are out people are screaming for the old "ugly" cars


This has been said before, but always refreshing to see that some of us have got a sense of perspective! :up:

#75 Hippo

Hippo
  • Member

  • 2,378 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 14 January 2009 - 14:49

Originally posted by ascoli


Are you sure that 2008 looks better than 2009? No contest in my opinion.


Indeed, no contest:

http://www.motorspor...z1208360472.jpg
http://www.motorspor...z1208360451.jpg
http://www.motorspor...z1208336445.jpg
http://www.motorspor...z1208361072.jpg
http://www.motorspor...z1208335233.jpg

That's the F2008 in a special test configuration Michael ran on April 16 in Barcelona. You're not gonna tell me the F60 looks better, will you?

#76 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 2,989 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 14 January 2009 - 15:18

F2008 > F60
F2008 - additional aero parts < F60


for 2009 cars, both front and rear wings are the problem, i mean the balance/proportion. would be alright if only front wing is a little bit narrower, and rear lower (plus wider, but thinner if downforce hence turbulence need to be cut).

#77 Barramut

Barramut
  • Member

  • 930 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 14 January 2009 - 15:30

The front wing is so low that any off-road excursion car rip it off.

#78 Buttoneer

Buttoneer
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 16,408 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 14 January 2009 - 16:57

It's no lower than it was before the last rule change to raise it. or the one before that, I forget. Point is, it's been that low in recent years.

#79 Welsh

Welsh
  • Member

  • 599 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 14 January 2009 - 17:40

Originally posted by BuzzingHornet
The front and rear wings both look completely stupid, and make the cars look ridiculous.

I understand the thinking behind changing the aero but couldnt therebe a more aethetically pleasing way to do it..?


You decided this after only 1 team launch?

I think there is only one thing that looks stupid and ridiculous at the moment....... ^

Advertisement

#80 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,834 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 January 2009 - 17:51

Sadly, Welsh, the wing dimensions and positions are fixed - so they are ALL going to look like that, I believe.

#81 BuzzingHornet

BuzzingHornet
  • Member

  • 5,984 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 14 January 2009 - 19:07

Originally posted by Welsh


You decided this after only 1 team launch?

I think there is only one thing that looks stupid and ridiculous at the moment....... ^


Yes currently there is... the 2009 Ferrari :) Give it a few weeks though and we'll have a whole grid of stupid looking cars! Win!

To the fanboys in this thread... hello there :) I'm glad to see you got your written guarantee of 'great racing' in the post from Max! What a season to look forward to eh? Passing at every corner guaranteed!

Visually these wings look wrong - they look like something out of the junior formulae. I'm surprised the teams signed up to them to be honest, knowing how image conscious they all are. No one pointed out that it would make the cars look like shopping trolleys obviously.

To the people who said 'yeah!! gimme ugly cars and great racing!!' - Can I recommend tractor racing? Lots of overtaking and boy do those racers look ugly!

#82 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,666 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 14 January 2009 - 19:57

that test config f2008 looks freakin awsome :clap: :clap: :love: :love:
and im not really a huge ferrari fan either..

#83 Barramut

Barramut
  • Member

  • 930 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 14 January 2009 - 20:06

Originally posted by Buttoneer
It's no lower than it was before the last rule change to raise it. or the one before that, I forget. Point is, it's been that low in recent years.

The mid section was as low, but it wasn't flat at the botton part and it was higher in the extremes, close to the wheels.
See Ferrari and McLaren.

#84 fer312t

fer312t
  • Member

  • 783 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 14 January 2009 - 20:18

Frankly, the people saying the ugliness is 'no big deal' ...I don't think they quite appreciate the idea of a *racing car* as an entity... These cars look delibrately arbitrary and ill-proportioned which is the problem. The reaction of racing and non-racing people (important in gaining some perspective) is that these cars, upon first impression, appear silly. Gauranteed there would have been a more aesthetically pleasant solution to the same ends...

Naturally ugly racing cars (the resultant of taking an alternate engineering route for certain ends) are OK in my book, and they can become beautiful over time. CONTRIVED ugly racing cars are the problem...surely people can make the distinction?

Please stop saying "we'll get used to these cars in time" etc...
They are never going to look completely right...

#85 GlobalGP.net

GlobalGP.net
  • New Member

  • 15 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 14 January 2009 - 20:27

Yeah same here...Im totally not a Ferrari fan but that car looks beautiful.

#86 LostProphet

LostProphet
  • Member

  • 1,175 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 14 January 2009 - 21:10

Originally posted by pingu666
that test config f2008 looks freakin awsome :clap: :clap: :love: :love:
and im not really a huge ferrari fan either..


My thoughts exactly

#87 312 PB

312 PB
  • Member

  • 2,188 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 16 January 2009 - 06:39

Yuk!

#88 John B

John B
  • Member

  • 6,283 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 16 January 2009 - 21:00

The jury's out on whether there will be much competition improvement, or likely everyone continuing to chase McLaren and Ferrari. In that event, much like being in a relationship if it's not great better to at least look good in the process....;)

Might be time to start a poll on the series with the ugliest cars....that's an active competition now for sure.

#89 GerardF1

GerardF1
  • Member

  • 690 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 16 January 2009 - 22:54

Originally posted by John B
The jury's out on whether there will be much competition improvement, or likely everyone continuing to chase McLaren and Ferrari. In that event, much like being in a relationship if it's not great better to at least look good in the process....;)

Might be time to start a poll on the series with the ugliest cars....that's an active competition now for sure.


Wait till the BMW & Williams are out then start a poll

#90 BuzzingHornet

BuzzingHornet
  • Member

  • 5,984 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 16 January 2009 - 23:26

From ITV-F1... The McLaren launch:

'And following some criticism that the new-look Formula 1 cars are uglier in comparison to their predecessors, Dennis said McLaren had also tried to come up with a design that was both quick and aesthetically pleasing.

“At the same time we have tried to make a good looking car because that’s important to us,” he said.

“If it looks good it goes good.''

#91 myF1dream

myF1dream
  • Member

  • 68 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 16 January 2009 - 23:30

We all remember Spa, so hopefully they will allow close racing this year with the new config. They do look ugly, I totally agree, but I have some outside bets with Honda and Torro Rosso this year. So I am hoping for a very close season, somebody please buy Honda.

**********************************************
MYF1DREAM - please let us have honda bernie

#92 Rabbit123

Rabbit123
  • Member

  • 255 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 17 January 2009 - 12:33

I don't think all these rule changes were even necessary. I mean, 2008 was like, one of the best seasons ever. perhaps a with a slight lack of overtaking, but the Hamilton/Massa battle and Vettel's success and everything else has really got the world's attention, it's been a season full of surprises and excitement. It seems strange that just as F1 is really coming good, people are moaning that it's not exciting enough and there's no overtaking. Fine, bring back slick tyres, that's a good idea; but all this over stuff with the massive front wings and the simple body shape and everything, there's no need for that.

#93 Rabbit123

Rabbit123
  • Member

  • 255 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 18 January 2009 - 15:29

That new McLaren actually looks quite nice, but then McLarens always look beautiful.

#94 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,721 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 18 January 2009 - 15:33

Originally posted by Rabbit123
I don't think all these rule changes were even necessary. I mean, 2008 was like, one of the best seasons ever. perhaps a with a slight lack of overtaking, but the Hamilton/Massa battle and Vettel's success and everything else has really got the world's attention, it's been a season full of surprises and excitement. It seems strange that just as F1 is really coming good, people are moaning that it's not exciting enough and there's no overtaking. Fine, bring back slick tyres, that's a good idea; but all this over stuff with the massive front wings and the simple body shape and everything, there's no need for that.

there were a lot of tracks where you simply couldn't pass unless you were miles faster (1-2 sec a lap)...and even then, with great problems.

#95 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,486 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 18 January 2009 - 16:36

Last year had many good races because we had plenty of bad weather, safety cars completely messing up things, the lead teams messing up all the time, and then in the few tracks you could overtake like Turkey, by chance cars remained close without building up a big lead.

None of this is likely to continue happening all the time. The cars were still as difficult to follow in dirty air as in previous years.

#96 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,486 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 18 January 2009 - 21:50

I'm reaching the conclusion that these cars' looks really depend on the angles you look at them. From certain angles they look perfectly normal, even awesome. For example, I really like this pic of the Toyota:

Posted Image

The McLaren looks quite nice too:

Posted Image

And the black paint makes the Ferrari look fantastic from a top view:

Posted Image

But then this angle makes it all look seriously wrong as you notice how high the rear wing is:

Posted Image

The anvil wing isn't popular around here neither, although I don't really mind it that much:

Posted Image

Overall I don't know really. I'm getting used to them but then on certain photos it seems like they will never look right.

At least they still look like F1 cars, which is the most important thing. That first interim BMW looked like an oversized baby formula car instead.

#97 MichaelPM

MichaelPM
  • Member

  • 2,587 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 18 January 2009 - 22:06

Originally posted by paranoik0
I'm reaching the conclusion that these cars' looks really depend on the angles you look at them. From certain angles they look perfectly normal, even awesome. For example, I really like this pic of the Toyota:......

Basically it looks great from angles that TV camera's will never be in.

#98 superstring

superstring
  • Member

  • 262 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 19 January 2009 - 05:39

The way I see it is the front and rear wing don't work in visual harmony. There's a fundamental visual imbalance. A race car NEEDS to be beautiful and these cars are NOT! The front wings look better suited to "cow catching" duty on the front of some steam locomotive.

Ron Dennis hit the nail on the head when he said that McLarens have always been designed with esthetics in mind as well as performance!

#99 ViMaMo

ViMaMo
  • Member

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 19 January 2009 - 06:07

Originally posted by superstring
The way I see it is the front and rear wing don't work in visual harmony. There's a fundamental visual imbalance. A race car NEEDS to be beautiful and these cars are NOT! The front wings look better suited to "cow catching" duty on the front of some steam locomotive.

Ron Dennis hit the nail on the head when he said that McLarens have always been designed with esthetics in mind as well as performance!


I seriously doubt that any team would sacrifice performance for aesthetics! F1 isnt a beauty contest.

And somehow wierd looking solutions never seemed to have stayed for long in F1. Honda's elephant ears, and in early days of MS at ferrari they tried super high winglets, they never lasted.

Advertisement

#100 GerardF1

GerardF1
  • Member

  • 690 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 19 January 2009 - 16:40

5 new cars

McLaren - very nice
Toyota - same
Ferrari - too long a nose in my opinion but certainly not fugly
Williams - best looking Williams since their BMW days
Renault - the ugliest one so far - while everyone has focused on the rear wing Renault has proven that you can make both end ugly

and the more we see of them the more used to the rear wing we get