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#1 Dick Willis

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 05:15

According to James Gullan's book "As long as it has Wheels" he was a long term friend of triple AGP winner Doug Whiteford. He makes frequent references in the book to Doug's bad temper and then makes this statement " Then at Bathurst his temper flared up once more, he punched a garage owner in the chest in an argument over some oil, the outcome made him bankrupt. From then on he was forced to drive other peoples cars ----"

Does anyone know when this happened and what the details were.

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 07:25

October 1960... between practice and race days, probably at Gurdon's garage or another in Bathurst...

I've heard the story a few times. Apparently someone offered to help or made a smart comment, Doug blew his stack and the rest is history. It led to the sale of the 300S and more to pay the damages. I'm not so sure it was a garage owner, but it might have been.

#3 Lola5000

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 10:19

Originally posted by Ray Bell
October 1960... between practice and race days, probably at Gurdon's garage or another in Bathurst...

I've heard the story a few times. Apparently someone offered to help or made a smart comment, Doug blew his stack and the rest is history. It led to the sale of the 300S and more to pay the damages. I'm not so sure it was a garage owner, but it might have been.

from memory Doug ask the guy to fill the car and the guy said along the lines"Fill it ya self your the race driver" Doug punched him and hurt the guy and civil suit followed.Will ask my father whom was a friend. regards Rob Baiey kew.
ps if i can put up with my father for half a day,i will gey of him ad scan his collection of photos,many professional from Albert Park in the '50s.

#4 David McKinney

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:32

Originally posted by Lola5000
ps if i can put up with my father for half a day,i will gey of him ad scan his collection of photos,many professional from Albert Park in the '50s.

Please try :wave:

#5 Lola5000

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 21:02

Originally posted by David McKinney

Please try :wave:

ok,he has terrific shots of the ex Chiron Lago tablet,1956 AGP and his 1958 coming togeither in their Fords of Norm B and himself.From memory a young IanTate sitting in the Lago as it it towed to the track behind a pre war Rolls Royce.
its real pity my father is such a strange man,as he has a very strong memory of all those Albert Park days.At the time he was only in his mid 20s,his father was one of the wealthest men in Australia and Owen spent as he liked.
My mother whom is a Sherrin of the football make,blames the racing days for how my father turned out ie drinking with Jones and others.

#6 sandy

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 02:33

This is very sad but as I understand it Doug had a daughter who received an MGB as a wedding gift and this car was painted in the same beautiful light blue of Doug's Lago Talbots. However, so I have been told, the newly weds were killed in a car accident on their honeymoon.

I can also recall AMS graphically reporting how in Albert Park in 1956 Doug in the Lago held off Stirling Moss in a 250F for some time being, particularly impressive through the fast curves on the far side of the circuit.

He was notable for the stunning turnout of his cars and he was always personally immaculate in appearance.

A real hero.

#7 sandy

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 02:41

Originally posted by Lola5000
.
ps if i can put up with my father for half a day,i will gey of him ad scan his collection of photos,many professional from Albert Park in the '50s. [/B]


Albert Park in the 50's means a lot to some people, including myself and I would be extremely appreciative of any photos you could post. Also if you need a neutral Melbourne based person to help with encouraging your Dad to produce them, just let me know.

#8 Lola5000

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 03:51

Originally posted by sandy


Albert Park in the 50's means a lot to some people, including myself and I would be extremely appreciative of any photos you could post. Also if you need a neutral Melbourne based person to help with encouraging your Dad to produce them, just let me know.

I kick myself now but I had the full official results book for the 1956 AGP meeting ,lap by lap times ect as a gift I gave it to the son of the owner of the 12 plug lago about 10 years ago.

#9 Derek Pitt

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 07:37

Originally posted by Dick Willis
According to James Gullan's book "As long as it has Wheels" he was a long term friend of triple AGP winner Doug Whiteford. He makes frequent references in the book to Doug's bad temper and then makes this statement " Then at Bathurst his temper flared up once more, he punched a garage owner in the chest in an argument over some oil, the outcome made him bankrupt. From then on he was forced to drive other peoples cars ----"

Does anyone know when this happened and what the details were.


Dick,

The actual facts of the matter are as follows.

The assault wasn't mentioned in the motorsport press of the time.

From Bathurst's "Western Times," May 20, 1960:

Doug Whiteford was given 4-year good behaviour in Bathurst Quarter Sessions after jury found him guilty of assault occasioning actual bodily harm to Bathurst garage proprietor A. S. Abbott. Mr Abbot suffered a ruptured spleen.

Doug Whiteford had pleaded self-defence.

The assault happened Good Friday March 27, 1959.

Hope this clears the matter up

Derek

#10 Dick Willis

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 11:23

Thanks Derek, but I wonder how James Gullan got the idea the offence had ruined Doug.

#11 Lola5000

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 20:31

Originally posted by Dick Willis
Thanks Derek, but I wonder how James Gullan got the idea the offence had ruined Doug.

the civil court matter and the damages the fellow won.
From what im told,he then went to work as the service manager for Norm Hamilton.It was also the time of the credit crunch of around 1961.Not a good time to own a car yard.
Perhaps with the death of his daughter in a car smash,it would have been factor in the way one would live ones life and how the mind would lapse from business?

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 02:18

Kaye's death came much later...

Probably in 1965 or '66.

#13 Michael Gasking

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 10:24

Hello Dick,
My first time on this forum, so firstly let me ask how the Stewart MG is going? Do you call it this or 'The Wheeler Fortune', after Les Wheeler wasn't it?
I am from the Repco Brabham era, an engine builder and tester for both the World Championship winning Repco engines and the Tasman Climax FPFs.
At the SCCSA Library which I supervise, our most borrowed book is Jim Gullan's "AS Long As It Has Wheels" so I am reasonably au fait with its contents. In addition he was a former casual acquaintance and colleague.
But back to Doug Whiteford. I do an occasional speaking slot around Car Clubs and Service Clubs entitled "Antics and Anecdotes of the 50s and 60s Heroes", (subtitled Triumphs and Tragedies) in which I use the story we are discussing.
Well it goes pretty well like this. Back in the era before sponsorships etc, there were a number of brilliant engineer drivers, who created magnificent Specials, and were often able to improve the performance and reliability of factory racing cars. Excellent presentation was just starting to be achieved, noticed and appreciated. Doug had acquired one of the two factory Maserati 300S Sportscars left behind after an Albert Park. He got on very well with this, one of the most beautiful cars ever built, as distinct from Bob Jane who got the other one, scared the Flag Marshals so much that they abandoned their post, and even Reg Hunt moved his boat further back in the lake. Doug was able to compete against and with the factory GP cars and drove it to 3 rd place in an Australian GP.
But back to Bathurst. We hadn't seen a more professional looking outfit. There was the big red Mainline (utility) pulling a big red Rice trailer, (enclosed and the best money could buy then) which contained the big red Maserati. After Bathurst, he found he was low in fuel, so stopped at a little service station on the lefthand side of the road a few miles out. (Some of you will remember it being there, I can). Doug pulls up, it is late as they have been to the after race party, but the place is closed. So he knocks up the proprietor, who is not pleased. "I'm shut" he says. "Dont you know who Iam, I am Doug Whiteford!" "I don't care if you are Santa Claus, I'm shut." The rest is history, Doug was charged, went to jail (I am not 100% sure), but he was fined and according to Jim Gullan he went broke after this.
Yes, his daughter was killed while returning from Bathurst where Doug raced and where she and new hubby.
had gone for their honeymoon.
Michael

#14 Lola5000

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 10:33

Originally posted by Michael Gasking
Hello Dick,
My first time on this forum, so firstly let me ask how the Stewart MG is going? Do you call it this or 'The Wheeler Fortune', after Les Wheeler wasn't it?
I am from the Repco Brabham era, an engine builder and tester for both the World Championship winning Repco engines and the Tasman Climax FPFs.
At the SCCSA Library which I supervise, our most borrowed book is Jim Gullan's "AS Long As It Has Wheels" so I am reasonably au fait with its contents. In addition he was a former casual acquaintance and colleague.
But back to Doug Whiteford. I do an occasional speaking slot around Car Clubs and Service Clubs entitled "Antics and Anecdotes of the 50s and 60s Heroes", (subtitled Triumphs and Tragedies) in which I use the story we are discussing.
Well it goes pretty well like this. Back in the era before sponsorships etc, there were a number of brilliant engineer drivers, who created magnificent Specials, and were often able to improve the performance and reliability of factory racing cars. Excellent presentation was just starting to be achieved, noticed and appreciated. Doug had acquired one of the two factory Maserati 300S Sportscars left behind after an Albert Park. He got on very well with this, one of the most beautiful cars ever built, as distinct from Bob Jane who got the other one, scared the Flag Marshals so much that they abandoned their post, and even Reg Hunt moved his boat further back in the lake. Doug was able to compete against and with the factory GP cars and drove it to 3 rd place in an Australian GP.
But back to Bathurst. We hadn't seen a more professional looking outfit. There was the big red Mainline (utility) pulling a big red Rice trailer, (enclosed and the best money could buy then) which contained the big red Maserati. After Bathurst, he found he was low in fuel, so stopped at a little service station on the lefthand side of the road a few miles out. (Some of you will remember it being there, I can). Doug pulls up, it is late as they have been to the after race party, but the place is closed. So he knocks up the proprietor, who is not pleased. "I'm shut" he says. "Dont you know who Iam, I am Doug Whiteford!" "I don't care if you are Santa Claus, I'm shut." The rest is history, Doug was charged, went to jail (I am not 100% sure), but he was fined and according to Jim Gullan he went broke after this.
Yes, his daughter was killed while returning from Bathurst where Doug raced and where she and new hubby.
had gone for their honeymoon.
Michael

Hi Michael, you are so lucky in South Aust to have that wonderful library.
The said Rice trailer is for sale at www.classicthrottleshop.com.au (I have nothing to do with it)

#15 Dick Willis

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:25

Welcome to TNF Michael, hope you enjoy its contents and we look forward to hearing more from you. Thanks for filling in the gaps on the Doug Whiteford saga, a sad event in a great career. Fortunately he still had some races ahead of him with the Datsun Racing Team, not sure when he had his last race but I recall seeing him at one of the Surfers 12 hour races in the late sixties.

After re-reading the James Gullan book I am now re-reading Phil Irving's story and he also mentions a Whiteford incident in the 1953 AGP when it was alleged he overshot a corner and required outside assistance to regain the course. A course marshall had observed the incident but didn't submit his report until much later not having the use of a telephone but Whiteford knew that any such protests had to be submitted within half an hour of the race finishing and therefore could not form the basis of a legitimate protest, this view being upheld by the stewards. In Irvings words "Doug was awarded his third AGP but it was not a very popular victory"

The Stewart MG is alive and well again and also bears the words "The Wheeler Fortune" on its flanks. I'm keen to run it again soon but this probably won't be until Winton in May. After some fiddling and testing at the local kart track, which is rather tight for it, it seems to be handling much better and not overheating as it was at Wakefield in September. Unfortunately it is a car that is not easy to operate at a meeting because of the methanol and Castrol R which both require draining and flushing after running it whereas with an avgas fuelled car you can just start and stop it almost as easily as a road car.

#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 17:35

Originally posted by Dick Willis
Welcome to TNF Michael, hope you enjoy its contents and we look forward to hearing more from you. Thanks for filling in the gaps on the Doug Whiteford saga, a sad event in a great career. Fortunately he still had some races ahead of him with the Datsun Racing Team, not sure when he had his last race but I recall seeing him at one of the Surfers 12 hour races in the late sixties.....


The story has certainly been changed over many years of telling... glad to finally hear the finer detail...

.....After re-reading the James Gullan book I am now re-reading Phil Irving's story and he also mentions a Whiteford incident in the 1953 AGP when it was alleged he overshot a corner and required outside assistance to regain the course. A course marshall had observed the incident but didn't submit his report until much later not having the use of a telephone but Whiteford knew that any such protests had to be submitted within half an hour of the race finishing and therefore could not form the basis of a legitimate protest, this view being upheld by the stewards. In Irving's words "Doug was awarded his third AGP but it was not a very popular victory".....


Interesting that it's not mentioned in the AGP book, which you probably knew...

There is, however, mention of there being too many people helping in Whiteford's last-minute pit stop in that race for a wheel replacement. A protest was lodged but was withdrawn on the basis that Whiteford could have done the job by himself... and that he had a five lap lead and plenty of time up his sleeve.

#17 David Shaw

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 23:57

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Interesting that it's not mentioned in the AGP book, which you probably knew...


Not mentioned in the AMS race report either.

#18 Michael Gasking

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 04:21

Hello Lola 5000,
Yes that is the trailer allright (classic throttle shop ad). Everybody had them, We at repco got two after I had pulled Jack's car around on an open trailer. Then there were the Scuderia Veloce ones and heaps of others. Bib Stillwell was the first to use a truck, I think, Gerry Barnard-Brown being his chief mechanic then.
Thanks
Michael

#19 sandy

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 08:45

Originally posted by Michael Gasking
Hello Lola 5000,
Yes that is the trailer allright (classic throttle shop ad). Everybody had them, We at repco got two after I had pulled Jack's car around on an open trailer. Then there were the Scuderia Veloce ones and heaps of others. Bib Stillwell was the first to use a truck, I think, Gerry Barnard-Brown being his chief mechanic then.
Thanks
Michael



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Stan Jones's trailer - the first serious trailer I believe - AMS reckoned it would have started on scratch at Bathurst only a few years previous!

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#20 Derek Pitt

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 23:17

Originally posted by Michael Gasking
Hello Dick,
Doug was able to compete against and with the factory GP cars and drove it to 3 rd place in an Australian GP.
But back to Bathurst. We hadn't seen a more professional looking outfit. There was the big red Mainline (utility) pulling a big red Rice trailer, (enclosed and the best money could buy then) which contained the big red Maserati. After Bathurst, he found he was low in fuel, so stopped at a little service station on the lefthand side of the road a few miles out. (Some of you will remember it being there, I can). Doug pulls up, it is late as they have been to the after race party, but the place is closed. So he knocks up the proprietor, who is not pleased. "I'm shut" he says. "Dont you know who Iam, I am Doug Whiteford!" "I don't care if you are Santa Claus, I'm shut." The rest is history, Doug was charged, went to jail (I am not 100% sure), but he was fined and according to Jim Gullan he went broke after this.
Yes, his daughter was killed while returning from Bathurst where Doug raced and where she and new hubby.
had gone for their honeymoon.
Michael



A very entertaining story Michael, but given the serious nature of Dick's original inquiries, I thought it best to apply some known facts.

The direct quotes are of course heresay and unless there are actually from somebody present at the scene at the time they must be considered as anectdotal - at best.

More to the point, your after-dinner story differs considerably from the version reported in the Bathurst paper, which identified the incident as happening on Good Friday and identified the service station operator as Alexander Abbott. Good friday was at the commencement of the Easter Bathurst weekend and DW therefore would not have been returning to Melbourne on that day.

Further, Mr Abbott ran a BP service station (now demolished) in Stewart Street, near the Dudley Hotel in the older part of Bathurst, not "a little service station...a few miles out of town."

The newspaper says Abbott refused to service Whiteford's car - not refused petrol.

The "Baker Street Irregulars" advise that Mr Abbott is remembered as generally a "less than friendly" person, so it is conceivable the sparks might have flown fairly readily. It is surprising that Mr Abbott would even have been at the service station considering it was Good Friday, but at that time I am advised, he lived literally just around the corner, so he might have been catching up on bookwork.

Nonetheless, if it was Good Friday he would not have been expecting a customer, but given Doug Whiteford was a BP-contracted driver - some special treatment may have been expected. Those who have studied Whitford's career would find it completely out of character for him to have suddenly realised he didn't have enough petrol to get back to Melbourne and then choose to stop at a non-BP service station.

Whiteford was a highly organised, tightly-controlled man. His style was to finish his last race, drive the car straight onto the coupled-up trailer and be immediately on his way home. Indeed, after winning the 1953 AGP, he could not be persuaded to attend the LCCA evening presentation in Queens Road, just a few minutes from St Kilda.

Whiteford did not go to gaol - he was convicted and placed on a Good Behaviour Bond.

He drove the ex-Behra 300S to 3rd place in the Melbourne Grand Prix - not an Australian Grand Prix.

Sorry to be so pedantic but I thought it important to get the facts down correctly.

On a positive note, I must say I got a good laugh from the line about Reg Hunt moving his boat to the centre of Albert Park Lake when Jane was let loose in his 300S!

Cheers
Derek

#21 Lola5000

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 02:25

Good reporting ,Often heard it said that he would have the trailer hooked up and ready to go after the last race.

#22 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 20:09

I don't have total recall, and certainly my memory doesn't go back to the fifties at Bathurst (first time there was October 1963), but I'm sure that businesses in Bathurst were open on Good Friday...

It was practice day for the bikes and it was the day most of the visitors arrived in town. The population would swell by at least 30%, so it made good business sense to have your bowsers or your milkshake makers running that day. Or your kegs, for that matter.

The Acropole made a fortune those weekends, so must have just about everyone else in town, they wouldn't be passing up a day's good trade so easily.

#23 David McKinney

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 22:14

In New Zealand back then many people still held religious beliefs that would prevent their working on a Sunday, and of course Good Friday and Easter Sunday were, with Christmas Day, even more sacred. If it was the same on your side of the Tasman that could be an explanation

#24 Derek Pitt

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 01:41

Originally posted by David McKinney
In New Zealand back then many people still held religious beliefs that would prevent their working on a Sunday, and of course Good Friday and Easter Sunday were, with Christmas Day, even more sacred. If it was the same on your side of the Tasman that could be an explanation


Yes, I quite agree David - in Melbourne it was only about 20 years ago, I would guess, that Hotels and the like began to open on Good Friday and Christmas Day. Indeed, Sunday Trading itself only commenced in the 80's, prior to that, 1pm Saturday was "IT" till Monday morning.

Although the point is not central to my posting regarding Doud Whiteford, I would be AMAZED if trading was permitted on Good Friday in Bathurst back in 1959!

Derek

#25 Catalina Park

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:28

Trading on public holidays in country NSW would have been very limited in those days. I can remember my dad telling me about his mate that owned a service station almost getting arrested for serving petrol on an Anzac day. (He was let off as he was a returned serviceman, he told the cops that he had fought for his country and if they tried to close his business he would be prepared to fight again! :lol: )

I can remember the days when every service station was closed on Christmas Day and Good Friday. Easter Sunday didn't seem to carry as much importance as Good Friday, probably because everything was shut on a Sunday anyway!

#26 onelung

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:53

And during the recent Lobethal Carnival the most excellent bakery in that town had its doors firmly closed on the Sabbath, thus missing out on the chance to do some excellent trade.

#27 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:57

Originally posted by onelung
And during the recent Lobethal Carnival the most excellent bakery in that town had its doors firmly closed on the Sabbath, thus missing out on the chance to do some excellent trade.

A bit conservative is Lobethal I think.During the Xmas lights the one petrol station was closed. My car showed zero KM to go on the readout for about 6km!! afterwards.

#28 Michael Gasking

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 22:23

Thankyou for your interesting comments. I will bow to the newspaper reports. However, I'm sure it was outside Bathurst.
Not to worry, I have access to every issue of Racing Car News, Wheels, Modern Motor, Sports Car World, Australian Motor Sports, and plenty of others to get stories from.
Michael

#29 Graham Clayton

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 05:41

From what im told,he then went to work as the service manager for Norm Hamilton.It was also the time of the credit crunch of around 1961.Not a good time to own a car yard.


Lola5000,

Here is an advertisment from the November 1961 issue of "Australian Motor Sports" showing that Doug Whiteford was running a tuning shop in St Kilda. Was this directly after he worked for Norm Hamilton?

Posted Image



#30 cooper997

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 06:47

[quote name='Graham Clayton' date='May 30 2009, 17:41' post='3669576']
Lola5000,

Here is an advertisment from the November 1961 issue of "Australian Motor Sports" showing that Doug Whiteford was running a tuning shop in St Kilda. Was this directly after he worked for Norm Hamilton?

Graham,

The way I understand it , Doug worked for Hamilton's service department at the end of his career. When they had their Porsche dealership in Chapel St South Yarra (where Lamborghini now is). The sorry thing is that Doug was suffering cancer at the time and under treatment with Milan Brique (spelling?) in the Phillipines. He passed away at work.

Stephen

#31 Lola5000

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 07:13

hi guys,before the the Chapel street building their were to other locations,1st being St kilda junction then a move to a shop front in Chapel st opposite about where Bob Jane had his Jaguar retail business,ie about 1 k up from Toorak road going towards Prahran.

Edited by Lola5000, 30 May 2009 - 07:15.


#32 Barry Lake

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 01:13

hi guys,before the the Chapel street building their were to other locations,1st being St kilda junction then a move to a shop front in Chapel st opposite about where Bob Jane had his Jaguar retail business,ie about 1 k up from Toorak road going towards Prahran.


Hamilton's premises prior to Chapel Street were on Dandenong Road not far from Sandown Park. The name of the suburb escapes me at the moment.

A big "Thank you" to Derek Pitt for details on the Doug Whiteford case. I had been confused for many years by tidbits of misinformation.

Doug's daughter Kaye married Peter David, who apparently had done some motor racing, in 1967. It was said at the time that they planned to enter a car for the Bathurst 500 that year and share the driving. The pair were killed "near Gunning" (NSW) on Tuesday 5 September 1967 - apparently in Kaye's MGB while, it was said at the time, they were returning to Melbourne from their honeymoon.



#33 Lola5000

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:09

Hamilton's premises prior to Chapel Street were on Dandenong Road not far from Sandown Park. The name of the suburb escapes me at the moment.

A big "Thank you" to Derek Pitt for details on the Doug Whiteford case. I had been confused for many years by tidbits of misinformation.

Doug's daughter Kaye married Peter David, who apparently had done some motor racing, in 1967. It was said at the time that they planned to enter a car for the Bathurst 500 that year and share the driving. The pair were killed "near Gunning" (NSW) on Tuesday 5 September 1967 - apparently in Kaye's MGB while, it was said at the time, they were returning to Melbourne from their honeymoon.

Noble Park,was that not where they had the bond store/wharehouse in the 80s?

#34 cooper997

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 05:09


Barry,

As Lola5000 mentions it was Porsche Cars Australia's early 1980's warehouse at Dandenong Rd, Noble Park. Just up the road from the back straight of Sandown. Chapel St, Sth Yarra remained the showroom though, until Alan Hamilton's renovation of the old Bryant & May building (about 500 metres up the road and across the Yarra River) in Richmond was complete (opposite Dutton's then premises). This replaced Noble Park and Sth Yarra. Alan still owns the B&M premises even though Porsche have long since left the building.

As far as I know, it wasn't Kaye's MGB that she and her husband Peter died, coming back from the Surfers Paradise 12 Hour. Her powder blue MGB with 'KAY 444' rego (if I recall correctly) is still about. I'm not 100% certain, but for some reason a Ferrari (and perhaps even the one that became the basis of the Bill Prowse special is what is coming to mind) was the car they were driving.

Stephen

#35 Lola5000

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 05:43

Barry,

As Lola5000 mentions it was Porsche Cars Australia's early 1980's warehouse at Dandenong Rd, Noble Park. Just up the road from the back straight of Sandown. Chapel St, Sth Yarra remained the showroom though, until Alan Hamilton's renovation of the old Bryant & May building (about 500 metres up the road and across the Yarra River) in Richmond was complete (opposite Dutton's then premises). This replaced Noble Park and Sth Yarra. Alan still owns the B&M premises even though Porsche have long since left the building.

As far as I know, it wasn't Kaye's MGB that she and her husband Peter died, coming back from the Surfers Paradise 12 Hour. Her powder blue MGB with 'KAY 444' rego (if I recall correctly) is still about. I'm not 100% certain, but for some reason a Ferrari (and perhaps even the one that became the basis of the Bill Prowse special is what is coming to mind) was the car they were driving.

Stephen

before all that their was a single car showroom in Chapel street going towards Prahran not far up from the old London Hotel but the other side (Toorak side) and before that they were in St Kilda road junction.

#36 Lola5000

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:38

What year was Doug born in?
What was the car he raced at the 1978 historic Winton meeting?
I've got an old family friend coming over for lunch on tuesday (raced in the '53 AGP) any questions of VIC drivers one would like me to put to him? He has a fantastic memory of Jones,Doug and the other VIC top line racers.

#37 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:05

What year was Doug born in?

From the Searching for birth dates thread:

(etc)

Doug Whiteford (1917 – 15 Jan 1979)

(etc)



#38 Ian G

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:44

Beat me to it,i saw his age mentioned in one of his class wins in a Datsun but having trouble finding it again.


http://www.gizmag.com/go/3947/

#39 Paul Newby

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:15

Barry,

As Lola5000 mentions it was Porsche Cars Australia's early 1980's warehouse at Dandenong Rd, Noble Park. Just up the road from the back straight of Sandown. Chapel St, Sth Yarra remained the showroom though, until Alan Hamilton's renovation of the old Bryant & May building (about 500 metres up the road and across the Yarra River) in Richmond was complete (opposite Dutton's then premises). This replaced Noble Park and Sth Yarra. Alan still owns the B&M premises even though Porsche have long since left the building.

As far as I know, it wasn't Kaye's MGB that she and her husband Peter died, coming back from the Surfers Paradise 12 Hour. Her powder blue MGB with 'KAY 444' rego (if I recall correctly) is still about. I'm not 100% certain, but for some reason a Ferrari (and perhaps even the one that became the basis of the Bill Prowse special is what is coming to mind) was the car they were driving.

Stephen


So this would have been Ferrari 275GTB #07307, the rebodied Spyder that appeared in Peter Wherrett's Marque back in the 70's, see youtube clip here:

According to legend, this Ferrari was lent by the father (Whiteford?) of the honeymoon couple and was fitted with inferior Australian tyres to save costs. The Ferrari suffered a tyre blowout on the Hume Highway near Gunning and hit a tree some way up. Les Miller built a new body for the Ferrari and the original body was hung off the wall of his Willoughby workshop for a number of years. I think Bill Prowse owned the car after Les Miller.



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#40 Dick Willis

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:12

Now with Frank Moore

#41 Lola5000

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:24

Now with Frank Moore

I can remember when it went up for auction at a Bill Jane auction house and Bill Prowse ,i think bought it.

#42 Catalina Park

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:55

I saw that car parked in the pits at the 1980 AGP at Calder.

Luckily I was carrying the Zeiss Ikon... (pity I didn't know how to drive it!)

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#43 Lola5000

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:26

I saw that car parked in the pits at the 1980 AGP at Calder.

Luckily I was carrying the Zeiss Ikon... (pity I didn't know how to drive it!)

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re-bodied as a 275,its a 1.2 to 1.4 million dollar car.

#44 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 13:59

I find it hard to believe that it was Doug who sent the couple away on inferior tyres...

If that story is true, I'd suggest it was the father in law of Kaye.

#45 Lola5000

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 21:47

I find it hard to believe that it was Doug who sent the couple away on inferior tyres...

If that story is true, I'd suggest it was the father in law of Kaye.

I thought the same,family friend who raced at the '53 AGP,shall ask him as he new Doug very well.

#46 austmcreg

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:23

Interesting thread. I have been aware of the Kaye Whiteford accident at Gunning for many years and every time I drive past on the new highway I wonder exactly where the Kaye Whiteford accident was. The name of her husband was mentioned in an earlier post - it would be interesting to find out who her father in law was, as like Ray and Lola I thought it improbable that Doug Whiteford would countenance anything other than the best equipment. Given what has been said earlier in this thread I doubt he was in a financial position in mid 1960s to own a newish Ferrari. All his competion drives by that stage were in other peoples cars.

Kaye Whiteford was important in Doug's career much earlier - he built a Lincoln Zephyr V12 - engined car, which was named the Kaye Special, in honour of his young daughter. According to the Winser Motor Manual review in 1951 it was built in 1946 for sprint and hillclimb work.

I wonder what happened to it?

Rob Saward

#47 Paul Newby

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:40

Kaye was married to Peter David. Maybe he was related to Joe David of David Holdings, the supermaket baron - Foodlands and later Cash & Carry and now IGA?

I don't know how to post a link from this forum, so here is the website reference - http://www.metcash.c...r-proud-history



#48 Repco22

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:06

Kaye Whiteford was important in Doug's career much earlier - he built a Lincoln Zephyr V12 - engined car, which was named the Kaye Special, in honour of his young daughter. According to the Winser Motor Manual review in 1951 it was built in 1946 for sprint and hillclimb work.

I wonder what happened to it?

Rob Saward

IIRC Jim Gullan mentioned construction of the Lincoln Zephyr special in the book referred to in post#1.
Pictured below; The quick Datsun which Doug and John Roxburgh brought over to WA for the '68 Caversham 6-Hour. The Waller/Webb Byfield-Holden follows.
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#49 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:32

"Unbuilt" would seem to me to be a more logical word for the creation of the Kaye Special...

The photos I've seen of it picture a stripped chassis with mechanical components, steering column and wheel and a driver's seat.

Didn't Jim Gullan say he didn't know how Doug drove it?

#50 ken devine

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 23:51

That is a good shot Rod ,but i cant place the corner.where was it?