349 replies to this topic

[Brun]

Guess they just missed the latest update, seeing the phrase about AU components. But still cool to read this. Hopesomebody made pictures....

This is post nr. 300 in the thread, BTW. Still going strong!

[Henk]

Originally posted by Brun
Y'all realise that this is the first time EVER that an Awtowello racing car took part in a race in the Western world, don't you? Think about it - it never ran under its real name before...

Brun, Fascinating topic, great results! This type of historical research prompted me to subscribe to the Nostalgia forum.

A minor (linguistic) comment on Sokol’s 'real name'. Do you have any particular reason for naming the car (here and in the 8W update) AWTOWELLO rather than AWTOWELO? The Eisenach works and other Awtowelo-controlled factories in the GDR spelled the name with single L.

Perhaps the first (only?) participation in a major western motor sport event of a car named Awtowelo, was the Dutch entry of a 1951 AWO 340 by Mr. and Ms. H. de Rijk in the 1952 Monte Carlo Rally.

After a Düsseldorf court had declared (November 1950) that only BMW in Munich were entitled to carry the BMW badge, also in the Netherlands legal action was imminent as to the import of Eisenach products under the name BMW. Therefore, for 3-4 months, Awtowelo briefly applied the acronym AWO for marketing the Eisenach ‘BMW 340’ in the Netherlands. In the GDR, this acronym was introduced already in 1950 for naming Awtowelo’s popular 250 cc motorcycles (AWO 425) produced by the ‘Suhler Fahrradfabrik’.

Because of the early-1952 switch to EMW, few cars have been sold as AWO.

The De Rijks finished 151st.

[Brun]

Henk, you're very right. Awtowelo is the right spelling, but somehow I can't keep my fingers from typing the extra L. Some corrections are in order

[Racer.Demon]

Now with the right spelling...

[uechtel]

Are there any rules how to "translate" kyrillic letters into latin letters? So I think there is no "correct" or "wrong" spelling in latin letters. Actually in many German publications the spelling is Avtovelo...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by uechtel
Are there any rules how to "translate" kyrillic letters into latin letters? So I think there is no "correct" or "wrong" spelling in latin letters. Actually in many German publications the spelling is Avtovelo...

.... which would presumably indicate that in Russian it's pronounced with a "soft V" sound and that a rough phonetic version for English speakers would be aff-toe-fail-o with the emphasis on the first and third syllables, rather than a hard V which would be implied by a W in a German iteration.

[Brun]

This is getting too complex. If you guys don't stop, I'm going to put the Auto Union badge back on!

Seriously - I tend to agree with Henk's version. Since the Eisenach factories carried the Awtowelo badge, I'd suggest we go with that one. They had Awtowelo printed on the factory facade too, by the way.

Oh, and Henk? Welcome to the forum!

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Brun
This is getting too complex.

Since when did we only do easy?

[Henk]

The VW-controversy is not really complex once we reduce the problem to the basic question ‘why do Germans drink Wodka?’

Note that there is a difference between transliteration and transcription of Russian words.

Transliteration is the spelling of words with characters of another alphabet, irrespective of sound. In all modern Anglo-American and German ‘standard’ transliteration schemes, the Cyrillic character B is replaced by the Roman V.

Before 1950, strict transliteration of Russian words was hardly practiced. For centuries, Russian words were transcribed rather than transliterated. Transcription of a word is an attempt to express its sound in a specific language. In Germany and some other countries, transcription is still frequently applied, notably in popular journals and newspapers (names of persons, geographical names).

Because of similar sound, in German transcriptions the W corresponds to the Russian B.

And thus Germans (some others as well) want Wodka instead of Vodka, while in the 1940s Russians in East Germany had no other choice than Awtowelo.


P.S. I didn’t intend to start a linguistic discussion in this thread. I was just curious. Yet, in many areas of research incorrect or non-uniform spelling has become a highly topical issue. It is obvious that transcribed Russian words can create havoc in international information systems. There may be other relevant sites, but if you need to verify or compare spelling of Russian names in English and German literature or data sets, I can recommend the table compiled by the University of Hannover at
http://www.unics.uni...ifttabelle.html

[dretceterini]

Geat job and thanks all for all the hard work

[Doug Nye]

That's for all you chaps who disentangled this story - who taught us the truth - and who enabled us (within reasonable restraints of not spoiling friendships) to tell it how it should be...

Thanks again.

DCN

[Svend]

Hello guys,

Friday morning when just having arrived at the FOS I got a phonecall from Mattijs in which he also requested me to take loads of pictures from some funny half Russian Audi ;) I managed to locate it and took about 5 shots of the car which was in very good condition. I'll get my film developed this week and I hope to be able to post the pictures before the weekend. I reckon you must be pretty interested in it.


Cheers

Svend

[Racer.Demon]

Svend, cheers!

[Brun]

Some more pictures. We've seen this one, the Awtowello 650 being tested, and assumed it was taken in front of the Chemnitz buildings:

Well, it was. I found the exact same spot. This is how it looks today:

... and the building in question (were the 650s were designed and constructed) is on the right, at Kauffahrtei 45. I've taken another one from the front:

[Racer.Demon]

Splendid!

I see another update coming up...

[Dennis Hockenbury]

With all of the incredible research and documentation regarding the true origins of the Type 650 Sokol, I have enjoyed a truly amazing story. Nevertheless, I have to give a thought to Tom Wheatcroft.

Mr. Wheatcroft is a man to whom we all owe a great debt for his work in preserving the treasure trove that is Donington. And he is an enthusiast, IMO, without equal. Yes I understand the original motivation for his acquisition of the Autowelo Type 650, but without the acquisition the story would perhaps not have its present significance to each of us.

It was fitting that last week Tom Wheatcroft was honored for his unique contribution to motorsport. In a ceremony at the House of Lords, Wheatcroft received the Motorsport Industry Association award for 'The Most Outstanding Contribution To The UK Motorsport Industry'.

I'm sure that Tom is somewhat (or perhaps very) disappointed to learn that his treasured A-U Type E is in reality something different. And I must admit to wondering whether the "Type 650" will be rebadged and re-labeled in the Collection.

Regardless, I tip my hat to Tom.

[Brun]

Well, I do agree that we owe much to Mr. Wheatcroft. But I don't think he should be disappointed. It still is a unique car in every way. And don't forget that in his 1985 article, Doug Nye already concluded that it couldn't be an Auto Union.

Perhaps Nye is the man to ask here. Please tell us, is Tom disappointed?

[Pedro 917]

I knew there was a thread about Auto Union so I took a few shots for you at Goodwood. I'm afraid I can't add some comments as I don't know much about this era of motor racing but I hope you'll like them.















The program says it was driven by Rick Hall

[Brun]

God*** I wish I'd been there!

Wonderful pics, really!

[Hans Etzrodt]

Thank you guys, lads and mates. Not only is this thread very enjoyable and entertaining it shows damned good work by Brun as the main 'culprit';) , assisted by Holger and Mattijs and the many other contributors.

[Svend]

Some more;












The rest of my photo's, all of them (so also the ones which have motion-unsharpness) can be found here.

/edit Thumbnails added

http://dutch.simraci...vend/gwood2003/

[Racer.Demon]

Oooo-aarrr, these are superb!

You're officially off duty now, Svend... And thanks for jumping in on such short notice. But you'll have to agree that the Awtowelo is a photographic subject worthy of the detailed attention you've given it.

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Oooo-aarrr, these are superb!

You're officially off duty now, Svend... And thanks for jumping in on such short notice. But you'll have to agree that the Awtowelo is a photographic subject worthy of the detailed attention you've given it.

Yes a lovely thing; I didn't hear it at Goodwood; what did it sound like?

PdeRL

[Svend]

Originally posted by VAR1016


Yes a lovely thing; I didn't hear it at Goodwood; what did it sound like?

PdeRL

I think it sounded pretty rough, but i'm not sure. I've only seen it go up the hill once. Did the car complete all 5 runs?

[Brun]

Wooow! Beautiful, Svend, thank you so much!
Please keep 'em online for a while. I'm currently on a very slow modem connection, so I won't be able to view all pictures until tomorrow (when I'm hooked up to my DSL connection again).

[Holger Merten]

I knew, I can't leave you alone.

Great work and nice pictures, must read this thread carefully since my fly to the "Golden Triangle" in North-Thailand. But I prefer Silver Arrows much more.:yawn:

[Brun]

Seems Mattijs forgot to mention the 8W update with the latest pictures from this thread. Many thanks to those who made 'em.

By the way, Svend, I really like the quality and color tone of your pictures. Did you use a digital camera? If yes, which one? I'm currently shopping for one and some tips wouldn't hurt.

[Racer.Demon]

And part 4 is where it really ends, unless...

On Svend's camera - I think the answer is enclosed within the question.

[Holger Merten]

Nice to see, that this car get's back his real name. Now we'll have to wait until the car looses the last error: Auto Union logo.

BTW: Why a 1948? 1948 Awtowelo 650 'Auto Union'?

[Svend]

Originally posted by Brun
By the way, Svend, I really like the quality and color tone of your pictures. Did you use a digital camera? If yes, which one? I'm currently shopping for one and some tips wouldn't hurt.

I used a Canon EOS300 with Canon 28-90 and Sigma 135-400. Film was Fujifilm 200ASA. Negatives were scanned in by the developer

[Pedro 917]

Originally posted by VAR1016

Yes a lovely thing; I didn't hear it at Goodwood; what did it sound like?

At one time, the driver was revving up the engine and I can tell you that it made a hell of a noise. Unfortunately, I was on the other side of the paddock (closed car park) and it took me some time to get there. I could film the Autowelo as it was running idle and would love to post it here but for one reason or another, I can't get it on my webspace. If you're interested, send me a mail and I'll be happy to forward it. Maybe Mattijs can put it on his website. It's 2,54 Mb and takes 7 seconds.

[Racer.Demon]

Luc, you can mail it to me. I'll put it on the website.

[Racer.Demon]

Right, it's there, right at the bottom of the page.

Or you could just go directly to http://8w.forix.com/awtowelo650.avi

Thanks, Luc! Top job!

[Brun]

[Brun]

Sometimes you see something that just cannot be a coincidence (conspiracy theory mode on). Look at the name of the artist from this painting!

[just me again]

Dear all.
I have revivied this old thread, because in Århus, Denmark, there is an exhibition where old and newer racingcars are displayed as art.

http://www.aros.dk/u...p?aid=1007&id=1

Most of the cars are on loan from the donington colection. among others an Auto Union typ. D.
BUT is that correct!!. It looks a bit like the Sokol 650 from this thread.

http://8w.forix.com/sokol4.html

Does the Donnington collection have an Auto Union D Type, or is it the Sokol, there is displayed in Århus.

Bjørn

[just me again]

I have written to the art museum, because i am fairly sure it,s the Awtowelo. It,s annoying because it's not an exhibition about fameus racing cars, but about beautiful racing cars.
there is no reason to cheat. they will have the same visitors and publicity with an Awtowelo instead of an Auto Union.

Bjørn

[Holger Merten]

Maybe it's of interest that the 2nd car appeared end of february in Chemnitz/Saxonia. The car is owned by the Technische Universität Dresden, which gave it as permanent loan to the Industrie Museum Chemnitz. The car will be rebuilt by students and professors until 2010.

[Henk]

‘Alvarez’ - Awtowelo in disguise
One of the earlier chapters in the remarkable history of ‘Typ 650’, not discussed in this thread. Even if you don’t understand German, the DDR movie ‘Rivalen am Steuer’ (1957) stands as an entertaining primary source of information.


http://www.amazon.de...9/dp/B00149JXYA

[uechtel]

Yeah, and it´s even better NOT to understand the words in this brillant piece of dramaturgy.

But seeing such really exotic and rare cars in action is a great reward.

[sandy]

I'm not really into the whole complexity of the Auto Union thing and have retired defeated when coming up against the photos with the little red crosses, being unable to master their downloading process (ie they just remain little red crosses no matter what I do) so the above photo is submitted purely on the off chance that it may be relevant and if not please disregard.

Young Pete in the foreground was intrigued by it possibly being an Auto Union in miniature.

[Holger Merten]

I'm not really into the whole complexity of the Auto Union thing and have retired defeated when coming up against the photos with the little red crosses, being unable to master their downloading process (ie they just remain little red crosses no matter what I do) so the above photo is submitted purely on the off chance that it may be relevant and if not please disregard.

Young Pete in the foreground was intrigued by it possibly being an Auto Union in miniature.

It's always correct to bring the youngsters in contact with motorsport history.

[Racer.Demon]

‘Alvarez’ - Awtowelo in disguise
One of the earlier chapters in the remarkable history of ‘Typ 650’, not discussed in this thread. Even if you don’t understand German, the DDR movie ‘Rivalen am Steuer’ (1957) stands as an entertaining primary source of information.


http://www.amazon.de...9/dp/B00149JXYA

I believe it was discussed here - somewhere here anyway! It must be, since it's mentioned in part 2 of this thread's summary here...

[atdoublep]

Any information about that second car, that was promissed to be ready in 2010?
Any pics?

[newbookscout]

Any information about that second car, that was promissed to be ready in 2010?
Any pics?

The ex-Donington car is now back in Germany and will be part of a Museum with the name PS-Speicher in the town of Einbeck (Northern Germany) to be opened next year. There will be be a book on both cars. The second one is on static display in the Industriemuseum Chemnitz.

P.S. I would like to add a photo, but don't know how to.Any assistance is appreciated.

[Tim Murray]

P.S. I would like to add a photo, but don't know how to.Any assistance is appreciated.

To get the photo onto the forum you need to upload it to a website, either your own (if you have one) or one of the image-hosting sites such as Imageshack. Check out the 'How to post images' sticky thread towards the top of the threads list. If you'd rather, I'd be happy to post it for you - let me know and I'll PM you my email address.

[irvine99]

I'm just back from a presentation of Prof. Dr. Kirchberg held at the Zeppelin Museum, Friedrichshafen. There is currently a streamline exhibition (besides the all-time Zeppelin exhibition of course). Kirchberg talked about the last "Auto Union". Very interesting.

 

One of the two 650 were sold to England. Kirchberg showed a photo D. Jenkinson and D. Nye inspecting the car. Wondering if they see the Auto Union Type E as promised by Alexander Schalck-Golodkowski. He sold the car for hard forex.

 

The car was presented at Donington over a big swastika and with Auto Union logo. Totally... The develpoment of the car was triggered by one of Josef Stalins sons, Wassili Iossifowitsch Stalin.

 

Test run in 2015: click!

 

Book about the Type 650: click!

[JoBo]

. He sold the car for hard forex.

 

The car was presented at Donington over a big swastika and with Auto Union logo. Totally...

 

Its well known that someone from the Wheatcroft family is fascinated by everything that comes from the Nazi aera and collects all this memorabilia-s**t!

That`s what I heard in the UK.

 

JoBo

Edited by JoBo, 23 March 2017 - 23:52.

[Brun]

The ex-Donington car is now back in Germany and will be part of a Museum with the name PS-Speicher in the town of Einbeck (Northern Germany) to be opened next year. There will be be a book on both cars. The second one is on static display in the Industriemuseum Chemnitz.
 

 

It's been a long while since I posted here but thought it a good thing to write an update. The Donington Sokol is now on display at the Thiesen shop in Berlin (in the Classic Remise, formerly known as Meilenwerk). I asked the lady working there if it was for sale but of course she wouldn't talk to me since I was there wearing a scruffy hoodie and sneakers instead of a suit.

It's not on sale officially she said, which means it's on sale when you offer enough money.

And it suddenly dawned on me that this is the first time in my life that I've actually stood next to the car. I've never seen it in the flesh in all those years since we started this thread. And look, suddenly they almost deliver it to my doorstep.

[Cavalier53]

Planning my summer trip in the region, is the Sokol still in the Chemnitz Industrie Museum? I cannot find it mentioned on the museum website. 

 

And is the C-Type still in the Zwickau Horch museum (their website says so, and it appears to be very tempting regardless).

 

Other related tips for a visit in the area are not unwelcome either....

 

Jan.

 

PS: how about the local Touristen Verein sponsoring TNF in recognition ?

Edited by Cavalier53, 27 August 2017 - 12:01.