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KERS and DNF


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#1 Racing Dutchman

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 18:49

This has been asked by someone else already in a different topic, but got completely ignored.

'Is there a way to prevent DNF if KERS fails?'

The reason why I bring this up again is because first Renault and now Ferrari confirm the use of KERS (while they originally expressed worries) and the answer to the question above also gives an inside look at how the reliabilty of the R29 and F60 really is:
1. If it is a imminent DNF causer, it would be strange if the -accoring to media- unreliable F60 features it (aka: is this the next screw-up from especially Ferrari management?).
2. Where the stops in winter testing a real issue or where it just parts at the end of their lifespan?

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#2 F.M.

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 18:57

I think I read a while back that drivers are able to just switch it completely off when there is a problem, so they can race on and KERS is nothing more than ballast.

However, when half way the race they get a problem with the cooling, by switching the system off you don't deal with the fact that the batteries are hot already, which might cause a DNF.

#3 Ruud de la Rosa

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:16

I think the team will implement in a way it won't stop them if it fails.

#4 bankoq

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:21

My guess is one of the Ferraris won't finish Melbourne because of KERS failure. They had some serious problems to finish their race simulations because of the system.

#5 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:28

It might depend on which bit of the KERS system fails, as well as the nature of the failure.

#6 Jack McGhee

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:33

Originally posted by Clatter
It might depend on which bit of the KERS system fails, as well as the nature of the failure.


That just about wraps it up. End of thread :p

It is surprising to see cars that seem to be a bit fragile (as Ferrari seem to be alluding to) add a variable such as KERs to their set-up.

Odd.

#7 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:42

Originally posted by bankoq
My guess is one of the Ferraris won't finish Melbourne because of KERS failure. They had some serious problems to finish their race simulations because of the system.

But do we know that they couldn't have continued their race simulation? They could have just brought the car in to hurry up and diagnose the KERS problem, ya know?

#8 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:43

Originally posted by Jack McGhee


That just about wraps it up. End of thread :p

Well an elaboration would be nice. Which types of failures would lead to a DNF and why?

#9 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:53

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Well an elaboration would be nice. Which types of failures would lead to a DNF and why?


I don't think any of us know enough about the workings of the KERS systems to be able to answer that one properly.

#10 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 19:56

Originally posted by Clatter


I don't think any of us know enough about the workings of the KERS systems to be able to answer that one properly.

Yea, I wasn't demanding an answer, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Somebody may know or have sufficient knowledge to make an educated guess.

#11 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 20:03

Originally posted by bankoq
My guess is one of the Ferraris won't finish Melbourne because of KERS failure. They had some serious problems to finish their race simulations because of the system.

when even an armchair expert cand give a FIFTY percent chance of failure, those stupid ferrari managers decide to run kers
jesus...
:cat:

#12 Rambazamba

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 20:34

From F60 thread

Massa:

About KERS usage: "I think we have to and It's decided we will always use the KERS. If any problems, we can just turn it off and continue.(...)"



#13 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 20:41

Awesome Rambazamba, thanks. :up:

I figured they'd have some kind of fail-safe for it.

#14 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 20:47

Can't help feeling that's a rather simplistic answer from Massa that won't always match reality.

#15 rogano

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 20:48

What does he mean with "always use the KERS"? On every track? :confused:

#16 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 20:59

Originally posted by Clatter
Can't help feeling that's a rather simplistic answer from Massa that won't always match reality.

Why?

#17 tormave

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 21:02

Originally posted by rogano
What does he mean with "always use the KERS"? On every track? :confused:

I should think so yeah. Not have it stripped off and replaced with ballast in some races.

#18 rogano

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 21:09

Originally posted by tormave

I should think so yeah. Not have it stripped off and replaced with ballast in some races.


If that´s true, their KERS must be really good/light then.

#19 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 21:39

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Why?


Because I don't believe it's as simple as just turning it off. That will work for some problems, but I think there are plenty of other ways in which the system can break that can't be righted by the flick of a switch.

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#20 rodlamas

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 22:24

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Why?


For instance, if it causes a fire, it won't be a matter of just turning it down.

#21 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 23:28

Originally posted by Clatter


Because I don't believe it's as simple as just turning it off. That will work for some problems, but I think there are plenty of other ways in which the system can break that can't be righted by the flick of a switch.

Yea, I figured that, but I just want to know what it is thats making you think that. What problems do you think would not be able to just be 'turned off' or whatever?

Someone mentioned a fire, and thats an example of something that cannot just be 'turned off', but then again, would it automatically mean a DNF?

#22 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 23:52

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Yea, I figured that, but I just want to know what it is thats making you think that. What problems do you think would not be able to just be 'turned off' or whatever?

Someone mentioned a fire, and thats an example of something that cannot just be 'turned off', but then again, would it automatically mean a DNF?


Well if the charging units catch fire it could easily damage the surrounding components. Same if the electric motor catches fire. What happens if the KERS is engaged and fails to release? I don't really know how it all couples together, but assume there is some sort of gearbox or clutch. Shocking loading through the engine could cause issues, it certainly was for Mac.

I still think we will see several KERS cars break down in the opening races. It's a whole new system and I very much doubt the teams have found all the possible ways to break it yet.

#23 Racing Dutchman

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 18:17

Sorry to bring this up again but:

I think we pretty much saw it IS a DNF causer, unless someone has information stating otherwise regarding the KERS failures in Malaysia all weekend long