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McLaren protesting over podium


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#1 Phucaigh

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:21

Martin Whitmarsh says his team is protesting over Trulli's podium, they say he went off track onto the grass under the safety car and Lewis had no option but to pass, they claim they should have the podium since Trulli went off circuit momentarily.

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#2 Bruce

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:23

McLaren... "WAAAAAHHHH WAAAHHH...

Suck it up.

#3 Ferrim

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:24

I noticed that too, then how was Trulli ahead of Hamilton in the end? I guess he just retook his position under the safety car conditions, isn't it? If that's the case I think McLaren will be given the podium and Trulli could be penalised.

#4 Enkei

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:26

Would like to see it, TV coverage completely missed this one.

#5 smartie_f1

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:26

surely they would have checked with Charlie Whiting before allowing him back passed?

WE didn't see it but how far off track did trulli go? couple of wheels on the grass? All four?

#6 wrighty

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:30

Originally posted by smartie_f1
surely they would have checked with Charlie Whiting before allowing him back passed?


Erm Spa 2008? would you ask Charlie again?

#7 wrighty

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:36

according to the live feed BBC 'forum' chatter, Hamilton and Trulli are with the stewards atm discussing the incident, along with Vettel and Kubica discussing theirs.....

#8 alfa1

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:43

Listening to Trulli's radio, it went like this...
Trulli went off track at turn 16 onto the grass, and Hamilton overtook him under safety car conditions.
Trulli discusses this at length with his crew, who wish to clarify whether or not it happened under safety car and yellow flags, or just before.
After half a lap or so...
Trulli gets back on the radio to say he is now in front of Hamilton. Hamilton slowed down really really really slow and Trulli went past thinking that this was what Hamilton wanted. To be sure, Trulli then slows down a lot to see if Hamilton would reovertake, but Hamilton didnt.

Given what Hamilton did, and how Trulli gave him every opportunity to be back in front, I dont see how McLaren can protest this.

#9 klyster

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:44

Originally posted by wrighty


Erm Spa 2008? would you ask Charlie again?


lol, yeah, for sure.

#10 ensign14

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:45

Originally posted by alfa1

Given what Hamilton did, and how Trulli gave him every opportunity to be back in front, I dont see how McLaren can protest this.

Well, easily. After all, the stewards penalized Hamilton at Spa, even though he let Kimi back in front of him twice.

#11 Enkei

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:46

Originally posted by wrighty
according to the live feed BBC 'forum' chatter, Hamilton and Trulli are with the stewards atm discussing the incident, along with Vettel and Kubica discussing theirs.....

Can you give me the url?

#12 wrighty

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:48

Originally posted by Enkei

Can you give me the url?


sorry its not a messageboard 'forum', its an after-race discussion on the tv, they just call it their 'forum' because it's the group of presenters together.....

#13 Enkei

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:49

Originally posted by wrighty


sorry its not a messageboard 'forum', its an after-race discussion on the tv, they just call it their 'forum' because it's the group of presenters together.....


Ok, thanks anyway :)

#14 Pep

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:51

Originally posted by alfa1
Listening to Trulli's radio, it went like this...
Trulli went off track at turn 16 onto the grass, and Hamilton overtook him under safety car conditions.
Trulli discusses this at length with his crew, who wish to clarify whether or not it happened under safety car and yellow flags, or just before.
After half a lap or so...
Trulli gets back on the radio to say he is now in front of Hamilton. Hamilton slowed down really really really slow and Trulli went past thinking that this was what Hamilton wanted. To be sure, Trulli then slows down a lot to see if Hamilton would reovertake, but Hamilton didnt.

Given what Hamilton did, and how Trulli gave him every opportunity to be back in front, I dont see how McLaren can protest this.


That's funny. A competition between both for who is the slowest and to be behind. Hamilton won :rotfl: :rotfl:

#15 raiseyourfistfor

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:53

Originally posted by alfa1
Listening to Trulli's radio, it went like this...
Trulli went off track at turn 16 onto the grass, and Hamilton overtook him under safety car conditions.
Trulli discusses this at length with his crew, who wish to clarify whether or not it happened under safety car and yellow flags, or just before.
After half a lap or so...
Trulli gets back on the radio to say he is now in front of Hamilton. Hamilton slowed down really really really slow and Trulli went past thinking that this was what Hamilton wanted. To be sure, Trulli then slows down a lot to see if Hamilton would reovertake, but Hamilton didnt.

Given what Hamilton did, and how Trulli gave him every opportunity to be back in front, I dont see how McLaren can protest this.


Obviously Hamilton didn't pass him back because there is no way he can forget the last time he passed someone when there might have been doubts that he should do so

#16 peroa

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:53

Originally posted by alfa1
Listening to Trulli's radio, it went like this...
Trulli went off track at turn 16 onto the grass, and Hamilton overtook him under safety car conditions.
Trulli discusses this at length with his crew, who wish to clarify whether or not it happened under safety car and yellow flags, or just before.
After half a lap or so...
Trulli gets back on the radio to say he is now in front of Hamilton. Hamilton slowed down really really really slow and Trulli went past thinking that this was what Hamilton wanted. To be sure, Trulli then slows down a lot to see if Hamilton would reovertake, but Hamilton didnt.

Given what Hamilton did, and how Trulli gave him every opportunity to be back in front, I dont see how McLaren can protest this.


Hmm, did Toyota check with race control?
Why should LH overtake JT under yellow?

And BTW, TV director was awful today, missed half the interesting stuff ...

#17 Jojodyne

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:55

From what I've heard and read so far, looks like Hamilton just didn't want to take the risk to be penalised for overtaking under yellow - post SPA2008 trauma - but I think McLaren have a fair chance. Both drivers deserve it though especially as Trulli went from pit to podium, nevertheless giving LH the nudge

#18 paffett4F1

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:15

Originally posted by Bruce
McLaren... "WAAAAAHHHH WAAAHHH...

Suck it up.


Just to be clear, McLaren have not protested. The FIA stewards are investigating under their own initiative.

#19 Gareth

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:28

If it's true that Hamilton let Trulli pass then the result should stand as is.

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#20 MinT

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:36

Originally posted by Bruce
McLaren... "WAAAAAHHHH WAAAHHH...

Suck it up.


"suck it up " - 4th or 3rd after 18th on the grid & in that car...yeah I am sure they will ;)

#21 wrighty

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:46

Radio news on the BBC confirms stewards decision, Hamilton promoted to 3rd :up:

#22 Anomnader

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:47

LEWIS 3RD :clap:

#23 Enkei

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:49

Alright! :clap:
Too bad he couldn't be on the podium. Would have been great :)

#24 DiStefano

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:50

And what's the penalty for Trulli?

#25 Garry

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:51

Aye. Confirmed by Sky Sports News.

Trulli has been given a time penalty. ANY time penalty puts him 13th.

#26 tahadar

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:52

Originally posted by Garry
Aye. Confirmed by Sky Sports News.

Trulli has been given a time penalty. ANY time penalty puts him 13th.

unlucky, mate!

#27 undersquare

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:52

Originally posted by Anomnader
LEWIS 3RD :clap:


Good, sounds like both drivers were trying to be fair to each other, presumably it depended on how far off track Trulli went, and he went all the way off. If he's not on track Lewis can't be expected to wait, so then it was Trulli who passed on track under caution.

Shame he missed actually being on the podium.

#28 bogi

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:53

Atlas BB wont recover in next five days :lol:

#29 Claudius

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:55

As much as I'm delighted with Lewis coming third I can't help but feel sorry for Trulli. Driving a great race from the back and now getting punished for a misunderstanding. It seems both he and Lewis didn't quite know how to proceed after he rejoined the track.

Can't Trulli just be demoted to 4th? Why the time penalty?
:

#30 ensign14

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:56

I think a time penalty for Trulli would be ludicrously unfair. Demote him behind Hamilton, by all means, but promoting other drivers because the stewards are so effed up nobody knows what they will do after the race?

#31 Garry

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:58

Because them's the rules!

25s penalty. 12th place for Trulli.

#32 SchuOz

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:01

Lewis Hamilton has been promoted to third place at the Australian GP after Jarno Trulli was penalised.

Trulli's third place was put under investigation after the Italian regained his position overtaking Hamilton during a safety car period, having run off the track when the SC was on track.

Both drivers were summoned to see the race stewards following the incident and it was decided to give Trulli a 25-second penalty which moves him outside of the points finish.

Toyota confirmed its intention to appeal the decision

#33 Gareth

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:04

Feel sorry for Trulli.

Penalty is (IIRC from Spa last year) non-appealable too, so demotion is set now.

#34 Anomnader

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:08

Yes I don't see how they can appeal, the penalty is unfair for trulli, but was set with what happened last year in SPA

#35 Garry

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:09

Hard to make a decision without seeing the footage, really.

#36 wordsby

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:10

Is the latest true that LH has received a ten spot grid penaly in Malaysia for improper conduct behind a safety car? Not the first time he has done this if I remember.

#37 toyotaf1

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:11

just stupid....things like this make F1 unwatchable

#38 Arion

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:12

First DSQ after qualifying, now this. FIA has been really harsh on Toyota.

#39 Garry

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:15

Not heard that one! What source?

Vettel's been given a 10 place penalty for not pulling over to the side of the track with a damaged car.

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#40 Garry

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:16

How is it harsh to enforce the rules?

#41 peroa

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:24

Originally posted by Arion
First DSQ after qualifying, now this. FIA has been really harsh on Toyota.


Well, don`t use flexible rearwings and you won`t be DQ-ed.
I thought they got a rather mild penalty for this.

#42 klyster

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:28

Originally posted by Garry
Not heard that one! What source?

Vettel's been given a 10 place penalty for not pulling over to the side of the track with a damaged car.


Apparently a $50,000 fine too?

http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=37367

#43 ensign14

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:37

Originally posted by Garry
How is it harsh to enforce the rules?

Cos no-one knows what the rules are. :down:

#44 alfa1

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:58

Originally posted by alfa1
After half a lap or so...
Trulli gets back on the radio to say he is now in front of Hamilton. Hamilton slowed down really really really slow and Trulli went past thinking that this was what Hamilton wanted. [/B]



"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race Lewis passed me
but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road.
I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."


Too bad mate. Apparently you should have stopped your car dead in its tracks if thats whats required in order to not pass Hamilton.
According to the FIA anyway.

#45 smartie_f1

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:11

Originally posted by Garry
Not heard that one! What source?

Vettel's been given a 10 place penalty for not pulling over to the side of the track with a damaged car.


Stewards report says penalty is for causing a collision and forcing another competitor off the track. The $50,000 dollar fine is for not pulling off the track.

Which is completely stupid. Both drivers were culpable for that accident and if one if penalised, the other should be.

Vettel also shouldn't have apologised. He's a nice guy and holds his hands up to his faults, but i agree with EJ/MB in that its going to make him appear weak. Kubica is shouting his mouth off about it being Vettel's fault. Next time it happens, he'll force his way through and blame Vettel for any incident.

#46 Monad

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:13

Originally posted by alfa1



"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race Lewis passed me
but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road.
I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."


Too bad mate. Apparently you should have stopped your car dead in its tracks if thats whats required in order to not pass Hamilton.
According to the FIA anyway.


Yes because we all know how much the FIA loves Hamilton. There was so much love last year in Belgium. :love:

#47 Nitropower

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:14

Well done by the stewards.

Otoh Barrichello caused a massive incident at the start and no penalty was given. What a shame... is Bernie's money on BGP? Just asking...

#48 peroa

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:18

Originally posted by alfa1



"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race Lewis passed me
but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road.
I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."


Too bad mate. Apparently you should have stopped your car dead in its tracks if thats whats required in order to not pass Hamilton.
According to the FIA anyway.


Well, I think some video footage could be helpful ...

#49 Monad

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:27

Originally posted by smartie_f1


Stewards report says penalty is for causing a collision and forcing another competitor off the track. The $50,000 dollar fine is for not pulling off the track.

Which is completely stupid. Both drivers were culpable for that accident and if one if penalised, the other should be.

Vettel also shouldn't have apologised. He's a nice guy and holds his hands up to his faults, but i agree with EJ/MB in that its going to make him appear weak. Kubica is shouting his mouth off about it being Vettel's fault. Next time it happens, he'll force his way through and blame Vettel for any incident.


You should watch the video again. Vettel wanted so much that position that he tried to pull a Shumacher by not letting anyone pass him throwing Kubica of the track. But Kubica did not back off.
Vettel is a good driver but he obviously made an inexperience mistake and it was his fault. But on and all this things happen in a race. The fact that he apologized only shows that his a decent person that recognizes his mistakes.
Kubica has the right to be angry and although am certain Vettel feels bad about the incident he just has to be patient and let Kubica blow his steam off.

#50 wrighty

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:42

Originally posted by smartie_f1
Both drivers were culpable for that accident and if one if penalised, the other should be.


too true, i've watched it again (had to fill the time until the board here un-fubared :lol: ) and Kubica struck me as actually having slightly more culpability in this incident....granted, Vettel had braked early but that struck me as being to try and make sure he didn't overcook the turn, given that he had a car outside him....Kubica, however, turned in like there was never another car there....in this instance, i'd definitely say 50/50, if not slightly favour Vettel in terms of the 'injured party' as a result of the collision.

perhaps 'push-to-evaporate' should be added to the drivers steering wheel options for 2010 ;)