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Could an electric formula car series work?


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#101 rt99

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:54

Thought I'd re open this one after reading this http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-19402383

"Circuits around the world regularly echo to the earsplitting howl of racing V10s and V12s at full throttle. But perhaps, not for much longer.

Motorsport's governing body, the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile, or FIA, has announced plans for a brand new motor racing series, designed exclusively for electric cars.

The new championship, known as Formula E, is due to begin in 2014.

Manufacturers are being invited to design and build their own cars, which will race on city-centre circuits around the world.

It will be run by Formula E Holdings, a consortium of investors led by the Spanish billionaire Enrique Banuelos, who made his fortune in real estate and agribusiness.

The FIA says it represents "a vision for the future of the motor industry over the coming decades".


If you read further:

Fast but silent
Yet the idea of electric motorsport has plenty of critics. They claim that electric cars lack something which motorsport fans yearn for - noise, and plenty of it.

But according to Lord Drayson, they're missing the point.

"What we're trying to do is create a new racing experience. It will be a different type of car, racing through the city streets, before new audiences, in places where we haven't raced before."

He believes that while older fans may lament the lack of a howling exhaust note, young people simply won't notice.


So if you put too high a priority on the noise then you are too old!

My opinion is electric motorsport can and will happen so why resist it?;) I grew up racing electric R/C buggies, I've driven an electric go kart, I'm convinced electric motorsport will be just as good as IC motorsport at some point in the near future and this series could be the first step to making it a reality. Technology and science will solve the shortfalls that currently exist and the only thing stopping people embracing it will be preconceptions and ignorance. Or age!


"before new audiences"

Yet current Motorsport fans will be sticking their oars in, suggesting that there will be no show without an engine roar (or in F1's case, high pitched scream requiring ear plugs for the rich as they dine during the race)

shame that it's predominantly the sound of wasted energy that keeps the attention span of the viewer, that in turn makes it a good business.

Motor racing is also about the competitors and the team entrants. Racing drivers will race anything. Sadly the issue of noise pollution that affects grass roots motor sports, is lost on the FIA's conscience for climate change.

It's also sad that along with a green and less wasteful formula, they couldn't come up with vastly cheaper formulas, where everyone can have a go.

I would hope that support races could be offered using electric Karts, some basic training and get more kids involved rather than worrying what the rev heads with sky subscriptions think.


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#102 Greg Locock

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 20:58

Way to go on completely destroying F1. Do you know what the spectator turnout is at my local kart track? Except for families and friends-zero. The TV cameras must be well hidden as well.

#103 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:08

Are the karts running on petrol or electrics? Does it make a difference?

#104 Slowinfastout

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:52

I think what they're trying to do with Formula E is a huge mindless promotional stunt such as this: http://www.redbull.c...021243180041460

It's extremely effective for what it is (I'm there somewhere in that video, drunk and happy), but IMO it'll never have the appeal of proper motorsports... just like the Red Bull crashed ice will not capture people like the NHL or the seriousness of speed skating at the olympics. (though in this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if crashed ice became an olympic event at some point.)

It'll be downtown, it'll be popular.. but on monday morning when you go to work you won't give a rat's ass who won, what the car was and where the next leg of the 'championship' is disputed.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 30 August 2012 - 22:01.


#105 rory57

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 13:01

it'll be popular.. but on monday morning when you go to work you won't give a rat's ass who won, what the car was and where the next leg of the 'championship' is disputed.


Like tomorrow's F1 then.

No space for innovation / experiment / risk = no interest. cf (mandated V6 etc) F1.

When (if ever) electric can compete on the track with internal combustion it will be both interesting and welcome.

Remember, electricity is not an energy source, it is a means of transmitting (or storing) energy.

Edited by rory57, 31 August 2012 - 13:01.


#106 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 13:44

F1 literally gets like 70million TV viewers. Don't confuse/project the interests of a tech forum with that of the average fan.

#107 MatsNorway

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 14:02

Ross speaks the thruth.

And to be precise electricity is not a storage device.


#108 rory57

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 21:25

Ross speaks the thruth.

agreed, but what motorsport can those of us who hang around in this forum get excited about ?


And to be precise electricity is not a storage device.

Static electricity = stored energy, electric current = transmitted energy.

#109 MatsNorway

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:25

Im not sure about condensators but batteries have chemical energy stored.

I would not mind a open electric series.

#110 Duc-Man

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:05

Some time ago Top Gear raped a Tesla roadster and got something like 15 miles out of a fully charged car.

Sorry gents, the electric (race)car will never work!

I'd say that hydrogen powered cars will be the future. No mater if it will be fuel-cell technology or internal combustion.
The in-car storage problem for hydrogen will be solved way before we see electric cars with a useful range.


#111 Greg Locock

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 17:45

The problems with hydrogen as a 'fuel' are far greater than the enormous problem with in-vehicle storage. In normal use Teslas get a reasonable usable range, and silly stunts by a loud mouthed clown don't really change that.

#112 Kelpiecross

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:15

The problems with hydrogen as a 'fuel' are far greater than the enormous problem with in-vehicle storage. In normal use Teslas get a reasonable usable range, and silly stunts by a loud mouthed clown don't really change that.


But a very entertaining loud mouthed clown.

#113 Magoo

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:36

Most any race cars will "work" more or less if the rules are designed to accommodate them. That includes electric. Really, the big problem with BEV racing is not the technology but the total lack of spectator appeal.

Even hydrogen-powered IC race cars would work, as long as they didn't have to race against anything else. Owing to hydrogen's dismally low energy density, hydrogen IC doesn't appear to have any future in road cars.



#114 Duc-Man

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:43

In normal use Teslas get a reasonable usable range...


Your words: in normal use.
And no matter of the stunts of that loud mouthed clown even a 200 mile range is inacceptable for a road car.
My brother has to drive on regular basis around 600 miles on a normal work day. If electric cars get such a range out of one charge we're getting somewhere reasonable.

Let's put it into perspective: we are talking here about a electric race formula where everybody is driving with a heavy right foot just like the loud mouthed clown.

PS: what are the 'great' problems with hydrogen apart from the missing infrastructure? Mazda runs hydrogen powered cars since 1991, BMW since 2002 and I nevere read or heard anything like it doesn't work...

#115 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 21:45

My brother has to drive on regular basis around 600 miles on a normal work day. If electric cars get such a range out of one charge we're getting somewhere reasonable.


What does your brother do?! I don't think an electric car being able to go 600 miles on a single charge is 'getting somewhere reasonable', how many people even drive more than 100 miles a day on a regular basis? A small percentage I imagine to the tune of around <10% of road users. I agree it's desirable to have a car capable of 600 miles without stopping on the rare occasion when you want to a do a really long trip but it's far from being representative of the average car user as your statement insinuates. And for the people that do do these long distance trips regularly then just stay with IC cars, no one said electric cars have to replace IC cars, it should be about choice! There is a huge market for the capabilities of current electric cars let alone what they will be capable of in the next 10/20 years now the automotive industry is starting to get serious about investing in how to improve battery life.

Sorry for the OT!

#116 Magoo

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 23:25

PS: what are the 'great' problems with hydrogen apart from the missing infrastructure?


Well, range for one. In a passenger car, the H tank usually takes up all of the former trunk or hatch volume, yet the range is usually limited to under 100 miles.

This is why often, hydrogen concept vehicles are pickup trucks or vans -- to allow large pressure vessels that consume the cargo area but extend the range to a more realistic 200 or more miles.

#117 bigleagueslider

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 00:32

The question regarding viability of an electric race car series actually has some interesting philosophical aspects if you think about it. For example, in order to make an EV racing series attractive as a spectator sport, the rules would need to be wide open. This would permit high levels of technology development and allow the cars to be very fast. This is how F1 used to be and is mostly why it gained such a large audience. However, with open rules EV racing would eventually encounter the same problem that F1 ran into: rapidly escalating and unsustainable costs. So in response to the creativity of race car engineers and designers, the EV series regulators would naturally create an ever-expanding and complicated list of rules. And the effect of these rules is always the same. They force engineers to design a car that is optimized for a set of arbitrary rules, rather than a car optimized for the greatest levels of performance possible based on scientific principles.

The recent discussion on this thread of the relative merits of automotive EV's like the Tesla versus conventional IC engine powered cars has a similar aspect to it. In the real world, the natural laws of physics and free market economics still reign supreme. And in light of these natural forces, the vast majority of the world's cars and trucks still use recip IC engines burning hydrocarbon fuels, rather than chemical batteries and electric motors. This situation is due to the overall superior performance/cost that hydrocarbon fuels and recip IC engines currently provide, and this situation will likely remain true for at least another 2 or 3 decades. The only reason commercial pure EV's like the Tesla or Fisker even currently exist is because government regulators (seeking political gain) have forced forced through legislation providing large financial subsidies for their development and purchase. Just as modern F1 cars look the way they do due to regulations, pure electric automobiles are a product of government regulations that distort market economics. Eventually, battery cost and performance will improve to the level necessary for it to compete with hydrocarbon fuels. That is likely the point at which we'll see a truly successful electric formula car race series.


#118 rt99

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:13

The question regarding viability of an electric race car series actually has some interesting philosophical aspects if you think about it. For example, in order to make an EV racing series attractive as a spectator sport, the rules would need to be wide open. This would permit high levels of technology development and allow the cars to be very fast. This is how F1 used to be and is mostly why it gained such a large audience. However, with open rules EV racing would eventually encounter the same problem that F1 ran into: rapidly escalating and unsustainable costs. So in response to the creativity of race car engineers and designers, the EV series regulators would naturally create an ever-expanding and complicated list of rules. And the effect of these rules is always the same. They force engineers to design a car that is optimized for a set of arbitrary rules, rather than a car optimized for the greatest levels of performance possible based on scientific principles.

The recent discussion on this thread of the relative merits of automotive EV's like the Tesla versus conventional IC engine powered cars has a similar aspect to it. In the real world, the natural laws of physics and free market economics still reign supreme. And in light of these natural forces, the vast majority of the world's cars and trucks still use recip IC engines burning hydrocarbon fuels, rather than chemical batteries and electric motors. This situation is due to the overall superior performance/cost that hydrocarbon fuels and recip IC engines currently provide, and this situation will likely remain true for at least another 2 or 3 decades. The only reason commercial pure EV's like the Tesla or Fisker even currently exist is because government regulators (seeking political gain) have forced forced through legislation providing large financial subsidies for their development and purchase. Just as modern F1 cars look the way they do due to regulations, pure electric automobiles are a product of government regulations that distort market economics. Eventually, battery cost and performance will improve to the level necessary for it to compete with hydrocarbon fuels. That is likely the point at which we'll see a truly successful electric formula car race series.


If anything the EV has been crippled but years of political gain with oil representatives.
What about the massive improvements in air quality and health for people living in cities? since the governments introduced legislation for parts such as Catalytic converters, unleaded fuel ? Was that for political gain? EVs currently have a lot to offer cities in air quality improvements alone. Why go to a gas station to buy energy from the sun stored in oil, owned by cartels, when you can use the same energy used to watch TV, with currently 7% (in europe) coming from the wind.

Edited by rt99, 03 September 2012 - 10:20.


#119 rt99

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:18

Remember, electricity is not an energy source, it is a means of transmitting (or storing) energy.


The source comes from the Sun, like with oil.

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#120 rt99

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:30

What does your brother do?! I don't think an electric car being able to go 600 miles on a single charge is 'getting somewhere reasonable', how many people even drive more than 100 miles a day on a regular basis? A small percentage I imagine to the tune of around <10% of road users. I agree it's desirable to have a car capable of 600 miles without stopping on the rare occasion when you want to a do a really long trip but it's far from being representative of the average car user as your statement insinuates. And for the people that do do these long distance trips regularly then just stay with IC cars, no one said electric cars have to replace IC cars, it should be about choice! There is a huge market for the capabilities of current electric cars let alone what they will be capable of in the next 10/20 years now the automotive industry is starting to get serious about investing in how to improve battery life.

Sorry for the OT!


600 miles a day for work in a car is drastic. That's a once yearly road trip for me, and even then it involves some stops that could be used for charging. The Nissan leaf will charge in 30 minutes, so that would need 5 stops, 2 and a half hours resting on a 600 mile trip isnt as unpalatable as the naysayers make out.

Researches also believe 'magnetic resonance coupling' means charging as you drive will be possible. A race track would be perfect for development.

#121 Tony Matthews

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:55

Why go to a gas station to buy energy from the sun stored in oil, owned by cartels, when you can use the same energy used to watch TV, with currently 7% (in europe) coming from the wind.

It does seem a shame not to utilise that constant, 20 mph breeze to deliver all the electricity we need, especially taking into account all those national parks, moors, SSIs and beautiful estuaries that are begging for wind farms.

#122 Duc-Man

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:00

What does your brother do?! I don't think an electric car being able to go 600 miles on a single charge is 'getting somewhere reasonable', how many people even drive more than 100 miles a day on a regular basis? A small percentage I imagine to the tune of around <10% of road users. I agree it's desirable to have a car capable of 600 miles without stopping on the rare occasion when you want to a do a really long trip but it's far from being representative of the average car user as your statement insinuates. And for the people that do do these long distance trips regularly then just stay with IC cars, no one said electric cars have to replace IC cars, it should be about choice! There is a huge market for the capabilities of current electric cars let alone what they will be capable of in the next 10/20 years now the automotive industry is starting to get serious about investing in how to improve battery life.

Sorry for the OT!


My brother is a field representative for TÜV doing technical inspections of cars. A friend of mine works as a field representative for his company and does easy 600 miles a day as well. I know it's an extreme example. It does not have to be long distance trips. It starts already if one wants to go shopping in the next bigger town. For me that would be 50 miles and I know people that do drive over 60 miles one way to work every day. So very little chance for a EV right there when you think about possible range and how long it takes to recharge if that is possible in public.


Well, range for one. In a passenger car, the H tank usually takes up all of the former trunk or hatch volume, yet the range is usually limited to under 100 miles.

This is why often, hydrogen concept vehicles are pickup trucks or vans -- to allow large pressure vessels that consume the cargo area but extend the range to a more realistic 200 or more miles.


By saying hydrogen I also meant fuelcell technology not just IC. The present fuelcell experimentals have allready 250 miles range and yes they are based on SUVs or vans but those are the cars americans love anyway.
No offence please and sorry for pulling the stereotype.
Soccer moms drive minivans and big trucks for free people.


PS: Nissan says 50% recharge on a quickcharger after 30 min. On a normal household socket a full charge takes 7 hours.

Sorry for the OT

PPS: I can see electric drag racing or hillclimb cars just nothing that happens on a closed circuit.

Edited by Duc-Man, 03 September 2012 - 11:02.


#123 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:21

PPS: I can see electric drag racing or hillclimb cars just nothing that happens on a closed circuit.


You also can't see future technology developments so you can't rule out closed circuit racing. No offence but are you an electronics battery/capacitor expert? Just because it isn't possible right now does not mean it isn't possible! With current technology it might not be possible to do full length GP distance races but sprint races in lower formula are often 10-15 laps, I'm sure with current technology that should be a relatively easy target which I'd guess is roughly what this Formula E will be from the sounds of it. I remember driving an electric kart on a short closed circuit 15 years ago and let me tell you that it tired my arms out before the battery started waning. And the torque out of the slow corners was amazing.

#124 Duc-Man

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 16:14

No I'm not an expert on battery technology. I just add 1+1 together and can't see any progres in EV development. The General Motors EV-1 had a range of 70, later 140 miles. Todays EVs offer about the same...15years later.

True, I don't know what the future brings and I can't really see a big point in discussing a theoretical race formula that might appear in a distant future. With the technology available today the whole topic is (sorry to say this) pretty much a waste of time.

There was never such a big technology transfer from race to street cars. Look at Diesel and Wankel engines, CVT, ESP and so on. Where did it appear first? In return carbon fibre parts/brakes, traction control and the double clutch transmission come to my mind. Apart from that I have to pass.
Now if we get to the point where we have practical street EVs you will get race EVs because somebody will take that technology and stuff it in a race car.
My guess is that we will see an electric touring or sports car series way before an electric formula race series on circuits.

Fact is that the science labs and industry should get their shit together and start offering something usefull quick.

#125 Canuck

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 21:03

600 miles in a "normal" work day? Unless the vehicle you're driving happens to be the one you're testing, I call bullshit. Once in a while perhaps but a normal day? Even at it's most optimistic that's 5 hours of driving at 120mph leaving 3 hours for any remaining driving, actual work, using the facilities and so on.

I know people who drive far more than I do, but that doesn't make them the standard to determine EV viability. I drive (or rather bicycle) 15km each way for my commute. Most of the people in my facility are within a 30km one-way commute. Corporate has determined that we will have 5 EVs in the fleet in the next year or two. Our sole concern is how their performance is affected by the winter temps.

#126 Duc-Man

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 14:02

... I call bullshit.


Pardon me, are you trying to insult me by calling me a liar?

Even at it's most optimistic that's 5 hours of driving at 120mph leaving 3 hours for any remaining driving, actual work, using the facilities and so on.


Pardon me again, have you ever considered that people work more than just a 8 hour day?
Pardon me a third time but do you know what a technical inspection is? Unfortunately for my brother, his resort are EU (re)imports and ATWs. And he does inspections of those vehicles mostly for their first registration.

I know people who drive far more than I do, but that doesn't make them the standard to determine EV viability. I drive (or rather bicycle) 15km each way for my commute. Most of the people in my facility are within a 30km one-way commute.


Very lucky us (I have just 12km to work). I do know more than enough people that have between 20 and 60 miles one way to work. So how far is your standard commuter going?
The average that is driven in Germany per car is around 11000 miles a year AFAIK. You might get to half of it, others have to do three or four times as much.
I know that 600 miles is propably the most extreme example. Just because you never heard of people doing something like that does not mean I'm making s*** up here.



Sorry for getting carried away here, I just don't like to be called a bullshitter.



#127 bigleagueslider

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:39

No I'm not an expert on battery technology. I just add 1+1 together and can't see any progres in EV development. The General Motors EV-1 had a range of 70, later 140 miles. Todays EVs offer about the same...15years later.

True, I don't know what the future brings and I can't really see a big point in discussing a theoretical race formula that might appear in a distant future. With the technology available today the whole topic is (sorry to say this) pretty much a waste of time.

There was never such a big technology transfer from race to street cars. Look at Diesel and Wankel engines, CVT, ESP and so on. Where did it appear first? In return carbon fibre parts/brakes, traction control and the double clutch transmission come to my mind. Apart from that I have to pass.
Now if we get to the point where we have practical street EVs you will get race EVs because somebody will take that technology and stuff it in a race car.
My guess is that we will see an electric touring or sports car series way before an electric formula race series on circuits.

Fact is that the science labs and industry should get their shit together and start offering something usefull quick.


Duc-Man,

There are several aspects to the EV race car problem. There is the electric propulsion motor. There is the on-board source for providing electrical energy. And there is also a question of energy recovery systems.

The technology of brushless PM electric motors is currently quite good, so there does not need to be much work done there. But electric power storage technology is still far too primitive for real road racing use, whether it's fuel cells or chemical batteries. In the near term, the only electrical power storage technology I can see being suitable for racing is something like a flow battery, where the liquid electrolyte for the battery can quickly be replenished during a pit stop just like fuel is.


#128 Canuck

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 04:15

Not trying to be insulting, just laying it out from my perspective. I work in am industry that has an exemption from the mandated maximum working hours. 24 and 36 hour shifts are not uncommon and in fact my dear old man at 66 years young, pulled a 38 hour shift earlier this year. But again, while common, you could not say it is the norm.

I made the apparently incorrect assumption that a TUV inspector would be a government-controlled position that includes stipulations about hours spent behind the wheel. Even I'm our free-wheeling oil patch, we are not legally permitted to drive more than x number of hours per day combined with maximum working hours. A job that requires 600 miles f daily driving by one individual on top of non-driving work seems unfathomable. I'm still not clear on how he makes a living doing inspections when he's driving 600 miles a day. Call me thick. At any rate, you're correct - a 200 mile journey is not sufficient for everyone.

While I can't speak to TUV technical inspections, I am familiar with ours. I was a certified inspection facility.

#129 desmo

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:46

If you are consistently driving 600 miles a day, you are not getting much work done unless your job is driving. You also need to move closer to your work.

#130 Duc-Man

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:13

If you are consistently driving 600 miles a day, you are not getting much work done unless your job is driving.


:mad: Sometimes some people work more than just 8 hours.

You also need to move closer to your work.


:mad: Any idea what a field or outside (sales) representative does?
My brother lives about 20 miles from his job and even if lived inside the company building...it would not change a f***ing thing.
When you have to visit your customers and they are spread out over a wide area you will end up driving a sh**load of miles.


#131 rory57

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:50





Any idea what a field or outside (sales) representative does?

Yes: something the world could well do without.

Edited by rory57, 07 September 2012 - 15:52.


#132 MatsNorway

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 17:03

You mean like those jehova fellas and vacuum cleaner guys that knocks on the doors all the time?

#133 Wolf

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 18:37

I don't think so, if they work for TÜV...

#134 desmo

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 20:18

Why would TUV need a sales rep?

#135 Wolf

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 20:48

My brother is a field representative for TÜV doing technical inspections of cars. A friend of mine works as a field representative for his company and does easy 600 miles a day as well.



Not sales I'd say, and here's what Duc-Man said earlier...

#136 saudoso

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 23:02

A friend of mine works as a field representative for his company and does easy 600 miles a day as well.



Oahhh, 600 miles a day a bit too much. Let's say he pulls a 600 miles day once in a while?

EU rulling on truck drivers as an example:

The daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week. The weekly driving time may not exceed 56 hours


Edited by saudoso, 07 September 2012 - 23:02.


#137 Duc-Man

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:40

I had a word with my brother and asked him about the miles he does. When he had the first company car they made a lease contract over 3 years and 150000km (93750miles)
He returned the car after 2 years with 220000km (137500miles) on the clock.
If I did the math right that's coming down to an AVERAGE of 380 miles a day considering he's 4 days a week on the road (friday is office day) at 220 workdays a year.

The EU ruling on truck drivers counts only for trucks. Trucks are also restricted to 50mph in Germany. There is no regulation on cars or their drivers.

Could we please get back to the topic now?

Electric race vehicles will surely work if a reasonable power storage technology is available.
Somebody mentioned an inductive carging system build into the surface of a track. I either read or seen on tv something about that idea beeing very energy consuming or having high losses. One or the other.
There is another aspect to the whole thing we're discussing here: where does the electricity come from?


#138 saudoso

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 23:44

The EU rulling was mentioned just to show how off the chart your number was, what you just confirmed. 380 << 600

And what a MF's job that is, to drive for 7+ hours a day and still have to get something done on top of that. At least the roads flow fast around there.

#139 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:51

Pardon me, are you trying to insult me by calling me a liar?



Pardon me again, have you ever considered that people work more than just a 8 hour day?
Pardon me a third time but do you know what a technical inspection is? Unfortunately for my brother, his resort are EU (re)imports and ATWs. And he does inspections of those vehicles mostly for their first registration.



Very lucky us (I have just 12km to work). I do know more than enough people that have between 20 and 60 miles one way to work. So how far is your standard commuter going?
The average that is driven in Germany per car is around 11000 miles a year AFAIK. You might get to half of it, others have to do three or four times as much.
I know that 600 miles is propably the most extreme example. Just because you never heard of people doing something like that does not mean I'm making s*** up here.



Sorry for getting carried away here, I just don't like to be called a bullshitter.

Realistically a lot of reps do that mileage a day. Not every day but regularly. And they do do 600KM a day week in week out. That at least here in Oz where there is wide open spaces,,, Do that in Europe and you have crossed 3 countrys!!


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#140 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:57

Oh,, and electric race cars. They have them now, solar challenges etc. about the only way it will be viable. Average speed about 70kmh, in day time. Exciting, interesting to spectators? Sorry not!!
Electric motorbikes, talked up about how fast they go etc. A bucket racer is faster and a lot cheaper!
If you wanna race something get an electric milk float, been around for decades. on about a 200m tight track for 4 lap races. May be a giggle in that!

#141 Canuck

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:19

Actually an electric motorcycle from the US recently won the Isle of Man TT. They're plenty fast.

600 miles / 600 km. Not nearly the same thing.

Edited by Canuck, 09 September 2012 - 14:21.


#142 Kelpiecross

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:55

[quote name='Canuck' date='Sep 10 2012, 01:19' post='5910943']
Actually an electric motorcycle from the US recently won the Isle of Man TT. They're plenty fast.


Was it a race for electric bikes only? If so, it would not be surprising that it won.

#143 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:02

It one a one-lap race for electric motorbikes - n0t quite the same as winning the TT, which is made up of many races for different catagories. One lap at an average of 104 mph. What is the lap record speed? I'll have a little Google...

131.578 mph, fastest lap out of four.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 09 September 2012 - 15:04.


#144 Canuck

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:11

Well that's what I get for reading press releases.

#145 Duc-Man

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:22

The EU rulling was mentioned just to show how off the chart your number was, what you just confirmed. 380 << 600

And what a MF's job that is, to drive for 7+ hours a day and still have to get something done on top of that. At least the roads flow fast around there.


Either you have overread or ignored the word AVERAGE or you don't know what that means. In the second case you should propably READ HERE!
Also, did I ever mention anything about 600miles every day? I said '600 miles on a normal working day'. And if one pulls such distances on a very regular basis it becomes normal for the person who does it. If one is responsible for a district that is about 200 miles west to east x 450 miles north to south and you are based somewhere in the middle, like my brother, that adds up.

@Lee: you're almost right with going through 3 countries...if you don't have to go back home again. ;)

#146 saudoso

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:48

If I did the math right that's coming down to an AVERAGE of 380 miles a day considering he's 4 days a week on the road (friday is office day) at 220 workdays a year.



Also, did I ever mention anything about 600miles every day? I said '600 miles on a normal working day'.



Wait, wasn't it 600Km (380 miles) a day?

Dude, get your story straight.

#147 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 18:18

Well that's what I get for reading press releases.

I don't want to give the impression that I know what I'm talking about...

#148 Canuck

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 19:11

Wait, wasn't it 600Km (380 miles) a day?

Dude, get your story straight.

No - it was always 600 miles. Someone else brought up 600 km. I wouldn't have jumped on 600 km either - that's a reasonable daily distance to drive if you're a courier or hotshot driver. Enough though, seriously. I'm sorry I brought it up.

#149 rory57

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 21:06

Anyway, would an electric formula work?

Motors: yes, technology completely ready.

Storage: no where near ready. something truly new required for anything but very short sprint events.

Spectators: this is the real problem in my view.
The sound produced by an I.C. engine informs the spectator of the drivers actions. Hearing the power modulated, gear shifts, etc "puts you there" and thus enormously adds to the experience of watching a vehicle on a track. Electric race vehicles could one day be technically successful but would anyone pay to watch?

#150 Wolf

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 21:38

Well, until recently even F1 race could be consisted to consist of several 'sprint races'- and I guess a 'quick change' battery systems could be easily developed instead of refuelling. Say, battery pack with quick release mechanism in car's floor that gets dropped when the car is raised for tyre change and new one is wheeled in and installed immediately...

Can't believe people nowdays in year 2012 contemplate whether it would work- even if we discount La Jamais Contente as a record breking car: Porsche raced hybrid cars over a century ago (just found in this link that the car was recreated by Porsche). Can't say I'm EV enthusiast, but I'd say that more could, and perhaps should, be done when it comes to making EV cars practical...